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Thread: Players that will be out of the rotation

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    Veteran Paul1355's Avatar
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    Nyk Logo Players that will be out of the rotation

    With our stacked lineup becoming healthy again, some players that have been getting burn will start getting less minutes, even DNPs or traded.

    Ronnie Brewer- Brewer started off great as Knick. He was a defensive stopper that was hitting the corner 3, even shooting at a clip of over 40% for a while. Now Brewer has come down to earth and is struggling as Knick because his shot has disappeared. The defense is there however that is not even as solid as the start of the season. He is becoming a carbon copy of Landry Fields (useless). If he doesn't spread the floor or even be effective in any way on offense then we are playing with 4 guys on the court. To be an elite team we need lineups where every player can score. With Iman Shumpert returning, Brewer is going to become non existent since Shumpert is even better on defense and can score at a high clip when healthy due to his athleticism and progressing jump shot. Expect Brewer to be out of the rotation once Shump is back and maybe even traded for a 2nd round pick.

    Steve Novak- When Novak makes 3's the Knicks usually win. However, gettting open for the 3's is Novak's problem since the Knicks don't run many plays for him and he is slow so he can't be effective like some sharpshooters such as Ray Allen who can drive defenders crazy running around screens. Novak is useless when guarded up close. Recently teams have been putting their point guards on him because they can stay close at all times and use the bigger players as help defense. This is a double negative. If Novak is being guarded by PG's and not scoring every night then we have to lower his minutes. Chris Copeland has been out performing Novak in every way, and I mean every way even on offense. Only reason Novak is not being benched every game for Cope is because Cope is a rookie and Woodson needs time to warm up to playing "rooks." But, as Wally and Alan Hahn keep saying, Novak will be out of the rotation if Cope keeps up the consistency.

    Rasheed Wallace- Sheed is a fun player to watch and is very vocal. However, Sheed has been struggling from downtown and shoots it at a high clip, resulting in a poor offensive shot. If Sheed is bricking shots, he still shoots them so I think he is suffering from the old JR syndrome. Sheed is also slow and does not rebound or play defense as well as Marcus Camby. Once Camby gets back into the swing of things and gets his legs under him, Camby will be used more. The only reason Sheed will play is if Camby is hurt or if Woodson wants to put Amare at Center with Sheed outside for floor spacing, other than that reason I don't see Sheed getting much burn. He is already becoming injury prone and is only on a one year deal, meanwhile Camby is signed for 3 years at 4 mil a year so he has more value right now. Camby is also one of the best rebounders and is a great shot blocker in the NBA and we suck at rebounding and have been struggling mightily at interior defense.

    James White- I love flight White but with everyone healthy but I don't think White will ever get rotation minutes. I think he is better than Woodson thinks but the team is too stacked right now and SF is not a position we need to fill with Melo on the team. I know Melo plays PF but once Amare returns and now with Copeland impressing I expect Melo to return to the SF spot to overpower small forwards instead of trying to beat big men off the dribble. White will be in the dunk contest and thats nice but thats the only burn he will get.

    Possibly- Chris Copeland. I love Cope and I think he has the tools to be an everyday rotation player. Most of the games he has played he has been a force on the offensive end. Most teams would be playing Copeland at least rotation minutes every game. However, Mike Woodson is strict with playing veterans over rookies, I have no idea why but some coaches are like that. With Amare coming back and being the offensive force for the 2nd unit, I expect Cope's minutes to naturally go down. The only way Cope stays in the rotation is if he takes over for Sheed as the stretch 4 when Amare plays Center. Copeland has been better than Novak in every way and is more of a threat than Sheed because he can create his own shot and fill up the stat sheet. Will Woodson use the spot minutes for Cope or Sheed? My heart says Cope but my mind says Sheed.

    Kurt Thomas- Thomas is a tough dude and I almost forgot to put him in here. Thomas is only starting because Melo and Amare have been out and Woodson just likes, for some reason, starting a player and never playing them again all game. Thomas is great for spot minutes but with Amare coming back and Copeland impressing I don't see Thomas getting minutes unless injuries or foul trouble plague the Knicks.

    Thoughts would be nice and any other inputs.
    Last edited by Paul1355; Dec 31, 2012 at 03:24.

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    Veteran petescud's Avatar
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    nice assumptions. Main thing i see here is we have been injury prone now for years, so all of these guys will get minutes as well have at least 2 resting at a time (injured or not)...this is a great thing. No one understood how we would keep these guys fresh, well here it is. Take that announcers/beat writer and Cope is a pleasant surprise. I love the kid. GO Knicks

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    Veteran bigapple's Avatar
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    leave that "Howevers" and " Buts" for Woodson and stop complaining.

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    This is also assuming we get healthy and stay healthy which I don't know about, heh.

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    Fully healthy healthy knicks roster

    13 players are allowed to be active during a game

    Thomas, White = DNP

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    Super Moderator RunningJumper's Avatar
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    Woodson needs to try out a bunch of plays for Novak one game. Test it. The Knicks have a good record and enough games to try it out.

    I hope Copeland continues to get good minutes. No reason not to. Kurt Thomas needs to get some minutes too when every one is healthy. His toughness on defense is enough, and he knocks down his shot efficiently still.

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    I'd have to disagree about Brewer and that's partly due to our differences in philosophy.

    You state that to be an elite team you need lineups on the floor where everyone can score. That's where we differ.

    IMO to be on the floor the bare minimum is to be able to defend your position. To be elite a team must have balance.

    So I conclude that Novak is useless and lacks defensive ability and therefore should be lower on the depth chart behind Brewer, making Brewer a defensive specialist at the SF position off the bench. The balance created or impetus is w/ Melo who is primarily offfensive. Brewer being his defensive counterpart- thus no real drop of when Melo sits.

    Sheed is also dynamic in his limited ability and fits the bill of a reserve PF imo. If we are to be regarded as a defensive team, then we must appreciate Sheeds ability to play d in spurts. Again, like Melo, Sheed is Stats counterpart. Stat being primarily offensive, Sheed providing little drop off upon his entering the game.

    White is different b/c he has no real defined role once Shump returns. He is in effect at the bottom of the SG depth chart and is just a reserve- although his game isn't bad.

    KT is strickly there for depth, which obviously we needed as a big. Him losing minutes will come as no surprise, but there is a need for him. He too plays D.

    Bottom line is that playing D first and foremost is paramount to being in the rotation besides Stat & Melo (who need to play D also but are in the rotation as default stars.).

    JR is stepping his D up. Its Felton I'm on the fence about because it appears Kidd can do what he can yet play D. His minutes may be in jeopardy.

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    Originally Posted by Paul1355
    With our stacked lineup becoming healthy again, some players that have been getting burn will start getting less minutes, even DNPs or traded.

    Ronnie Brewer- Brewer started off great as Knick. He was a defensive stopper that was hitting the corner 3, even shooting at a clip of over 40% for a while. Now Brewer has come down to earth and is struggling as Knick because his shot has disappeared. The defense is there however that is not even as solid as the start of the season. He is becoming a carbon copy of Landry Fields (useless). If he doesn't spread the floor or even be effective in any way on offense then we are playing with 4 guys on the court. To be an elite team we need lineups where every player can score. With Iman Shumpert returning, Brewer is going to become non existent since Shumpert is even better on defense and can score at a high clip when healthy due to his athleticism and progressing jump shot. Expect Brewer to be out of the rotation once Shump is back and maybe even traded for a 2nd round pick.

    Steve Novak- When Novak makes 3's the Knicks usually win. However, gettting open for the 3's is Novak's problem since the Knicks don't run many plays for him and he is slow so he can't be effective like some sharpshooters such as Ray Allen who can drive defenders crazy running around screens. Novak is useless when guarded up close. Recently teams have been putting their point guards on him because they can stay close at all times and use the bigger players as help defense. This is a double negative. If Novak is being guarded by PG's and not scoring every night then we have to lower his minutes. Chris Copeland has been out performing Novak in every way, and I mean every way even on offense. Only reason Novak is not being benched every game for Cope is because Cope is a rookie and Woodson needs time to warm up to playing "rooks." But, as Wally and Alan Hahn keep saying, Novak will be out of the rotation if Cope keeps up the consistency.

    Rasheed Wallace- Sheed is a fun player to watch and is very vocal. However, Sheed has been struggling from downtown and shoots it at a high clip, resulting in a poor offensive shot. If Sheed is bricking shots, he still shoots them so I think he is suffering from the old JR syndrome. Sheed is also slow and does not rebound or play defense as well as Marcus Camby. Once Camby gets back into the swing of things and gets his legs under him, Camby will be used more. The only reason Sheed will play is if Camby is hurt or if Woodson wants to put Amare at Center with Sheed outside for floor spacing, other than that reason I don't see Sheed getting much burn. He is already becoming injury prone and is only on a one year deal, meanwhile Camby is signed for 3 years at 4 mil a year so he has more value right now. Camby is also one of the best rebounders and is a great shot blocker in the NBA and we suck at rebounding and have been struggling mightily at interior defense.

    James White- I love flight White but with everyone healthy but I don't think White will ever get rotation minutes. I think he is better than Woodson thinks but the team is too stacked right now and SF is not a position we need to fill with Melo on the team. I know Melo plays PF but once Amare returns and now with Copeland impressing I expect Melo to return to the SF spot to overpower small forwards instead of trying to beat big men off the dribble. White will be in the dunk contest and thats nice but thats the only burn he will get.

    Possibly- Chris Copeland. I love Cope and I think he has the tools to be an everyday rotation player. Most of the games he has played he has been a force on the offensive end. Most teams would be playing Copeland at least rotation minutes every game. However, Mike Woodson is strict with playing veterans over rookies, I have no idea why but some coaches are like that. With Amare coming back and being the offensive force for the 2nd unit, I expect Cope's minutes to naturally go down. The only way Cope stays in the rotation is if he takes over for Sheed as the stretch 4 when Amare plays Center. Copeland has been better than Novak in every way and is more of a threat than Sheed because he can create his own shot and fill up the stat sheet. Will Woodson use the spot minutes for Cope or Sheed? My heart says Cope but my mind says Sheed.

    Kurt Thomas- Thomas is a tough dude and I almost forgot to put him in here. Thomas is only starting because Melo and Amare have been out and Woodson just likes, for some reason, starting a player and never playing them again all game. Thomas is great for spot minutes but with Amare coming back and Copeland impressing I don't see Thomas getting minutes unless injuries or foul trouble plague the Knicks.

    Thoughts would be nice and any other inputs.
    Excellant piece of writting with every observation spot on BUT another possibility is that if the knicks were healthy rather than dessimated these role players would get less time but produce more. They are not good enough to be a core part and defeat other NBA teams yet go back and look at this group that should have defeated SACREMENTO with that unbelieveable comeback from 27 down...the same sacremento team that defeated the Celtics.
    Ronny Brewer would not start on any other NBA team even if he hit the 3's on occassion.
    Novack has gotten alot of minutes and I still feel they don't look for him ..he's open alot and has not gotten a touch.
    Sheed is insane and uncoachable. Therefore, he should be behind Chandler and Camby. He like a box of chocolates...never know what you are going to get.
    Copeland should play major minutes...despite missing a break away open layup which shows he still NERVOUS.
    Kurt Thomas.....NO COMMENT
    Last edited by DrB; Dec 31, 2012 at 16:25.

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    Camby is our best shot blocker, and despite how bad Brewer has been, he's our best perimeter defender...gotta play these guys more because every game we lost this year has been due to our defense not playing to potential.

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    it kills me that Flight White wont play

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    everybody on this roster will be used. the guys who play depends all on how the game is going. copeland, white, and brewer will probably see the least minutes, but i'm sure game situations and health will dictate rotation.

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    Sheed is integral to this team's DEFENSE.
    Mike Woodson is all about DEFENSE.
    Sheed is not going to be out of the rotation at all.

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    Originally Posted by Paul1355
    With our stacked lineup becoming healthy again, some players that have been getting burn will start getting less minutes, even DNPs or traded.

    Ronnie Brewer- Brewer started off great as Knick. He was a defensive stopper that was hitting the corner 3, even shooting at a clip of over 40% for a while. Now Brewer has come down to earth and is struggling as Knick because his shot has disappeared. The defense is there however that is not even as solid as the start of the season. He is becoming a carbon copy of Landry Fields (useless). If he doesn't spread the floor or even be effective in any way on offense then we are playing with 4 guys on the court. To be an elite team we need lineups where every player can score. With Iman Shumpert returning, Brewer is going to become non existent since Shumpert is even better on defense and can score at a high clip when healthy due to his athleticism and progressing jump shot. Expect Brewer to be out of the rotation once Shump is back and maybe even traded for a 2nd round pick.

    Steve Novak- When Novak makes 3's the Knicks usually win. However, gettting open for the 3's is Novak's problem since the Knicks don't run many plays for him and he is slow so he can't be effective like some sharpshooters such as Ray Allen who can drive defenders crazy running around screens. Novak is useless when guarded up close. Recently teams have been putting their point guards on him because they can stay close at all times and use the bigger players as help defense. This is a double negative. If Novak is being guarded by PG's and not scoring every night then we have to lower his minutes. Chris Copeland has been out performing Novak in every way, and I mean every way even on offense. Only reason Novak is not being benched every game for Cope is because Cope is a rookie and Woodson needs time to warm up to playing "rooks." But, as Wally and Alan Hahn keep saying, Novak will be out of the rotation if Cope keeps up the consistency.

    Rasheed Wallace- Sheed is a fun player to watch and is very vocal. However, Sheed has been struggling from downtown and shoots it at a high clip, resulting in a poor offensive shot. If Sheed is bricking shots, he still shoots them so I think he is suffering from the old JR syndrome. Sheed is also slow and does not rebound or play defense as well as Marcus Camby. Once Camby gets back into the swing of things and gets his legs under him, Camby will be used more. The only reason Sheed will play is if Camby is hurt or if Woodson wants to put Amare at Center with Sheed outside for floor spacing, other than that reason I don't see Sheed getting much burn. He is already becoming injury prone and is only on a one year deal, meanwhile Camby is signed for 3 years at 4 mil a year so he has more value right now. Camby is also one of the best rebounders and is a great shot blocker in the NBA and we suck at rebounding and have been struggling mightily at interior defense.

    James White- I love flight White but with everyone healthy but I don't think White will ever get rotation minutes. I think he is better than Woodson thinks but the team is too stacked right now and SF is not a position we need to fill with Melo on the team. I know Melo plays PF but once Amare returns and now with Copeland impressing I expect Melo to return to the SF spot to overpower small forwards instead of trying to beat big men off the dribble. White will be in the dunk contest and thats nice but thats the only burn he will get.

    Possibly- Chris Copeland. I love Cope and I think he has the tools to be an everyday rotation player. Most of the games he has played he has been a force on the offensive end. Most teams would be playing Copeland at least rotation minutes every game. However, Mike Woodson is strict with playing veterans over rookies, I have no idea why but some coaches are like that. With Amare coming back and being the offensive force for the 2nd unit, I expect Cope's minutes to naturally go down. The only way Cope stays in the rotation is if he takes over for Sheed as the stretch 4 when Amare plays Center. Copeland has been better than Novak in every way and is more of a threat than Sheed because he can create his own shot and fill up the stat sheet. Will Woodson use the spot minutes for Cope or Sheed? My heart says Cope but my mind says Sheed.

    Kurt Thomas- Thomas is a tough dude and I almost forgot to put him in here. Thomas is only starting because Melo and Amare have been out and Woodson just likes, for some reason, starting a player and never playing them again all game. Thomas is great for spot minutes but with Amare coming back and Copeland impressing I don't see Thomas getting minutes unless injuries or foul trouble plague the Knicks.

    Thoughts would be nice and any other inputs.
    Looks like i was right

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