Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 16

Thread: ESPN Insider "Are the Knicks Legit"

  1. #1
    Veteran
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    2,790
    Rep Power
    15

    Default ESPN Insider "Are the Knicks Legit"

    Defensive problems and integrating Stat with Melo and TC are problems along with Stat's lack of defensive prowess.



    With the way the [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] have laid down defensively over the past month, defensive sieve Amar'e Stoudemire should have no problems fitting in right away.
    After an almost magical start to the season, the Knicks stumble into Thursday night's matchup against the [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] having lost five of their past eight games. But contrary to popular belief, their recent skid has little to do with their 3-point dependent offense coming up empty.
    No, it has much more to do with the fact that they've taken the holidays off on the defensive end of the floor.
    Rewind to Dec. 7, the morning after the Knicks spanked the defending champion [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] on national television 112-92, even without [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]. Things were good in Knicks Nation. New York ranked comfortably atop the East with a 14-4 record, boasting the league's most efficient offense and an 11th-ranked defense anchored by a supposedly rejuvenated Anthony and reigning Defensive Player of the Year [Only registered and activated users can see links. ].


    That seems like more than a month ago, doesn't it? They've gone just 7-6 since that Melo-less romp in Miami while absorbing various injuries to Anthony, Chandler, [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] and [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]. They've looked every bit like the injury-rattled, slightly above .500 team that many expected of the ancient, if talented, roster -- not the title contender that many Knicks fans hoped after a hot start.
    But save me the "live by the 3, die by the 3" knee-jerk diagnosis. The Knicks haven't been lights-out from downtown lately, but did you really expect them to shoot 42 percent from downtown all season? The inevitable regression to the mean should be a shock to exactly no one and the reports of the Knicks' death by 3-point shot have been greatly exaggerated.
    In fact, the Knicks have shot 35.9 percent from beyond the arc during their slide since Dec. 6, a conversion rate that still ranks above the league average. The horror! Sure, it's convenient to point out that Mike D'Antoni's [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] never won a title by shooting nothing but 3-pointers, but it glosses over the fact that there's actually a track record of success for teams reliant on the long ball.


    Let's take a quick stroll through history. Most recently, the 2010-11 [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] title team, anchored by Chandler by the way, ranked fifth in 3-point attempts. The 2008-09 Magic reached the NBA Finals while having the most 3-point dependent offense in the league. The 2006-07 Spurs shot more 3s than D'Antoni's Suns in their Western Conference semifinal matchup (gasp!) and then eventually won the championship. And then there's the [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] who won back-to-back titles in 1994 and 1995 after shooting 100 more 3-pointers than any other team in each banner-raising campaign.
    The problem for the Knicks isn't that their 3-point shot has gotten cold(er), but rather that their defense hasn't been able to absorb a slight thawing. Since the Melo-less win in Miami, the Knicks have allowed a bloated 106.3 points per 100 possessions according to NBA.com's advanced stats tool, a rate that would rank 27th in the league over the entire season. After being a borderline top-10 defense for the opening month of the season, the Knicks' D has essentially been a doormat for opposing teams.
    So what's the issue? The Knicks haven't bothered to play defense until the fourth quarter -- and that's often a little too late. This isn't just an knee-jerk overreaction to the past two losses to Sacramento and Portland when the Knicks couldn't overcome double-digit halftime deficits. This trend has lasted all season long. The Knicks currently rank 28th in first-half defense and the only time they've looked like an above-average defensive team is after three quarters.

    Knicks by quarter this season

    Q ORtg Rank DRtg Rank 1 111.3 2nd 105.7 24th 2 110.5 3rd 107.6 24th 3 106.3 3rd 103.0 19th 4 110.0 2nd 95.1 3rd Courtesy of NBA.com

    Problems had surfaced long before injuries forced the Knicks to start a 40-year-old [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] and [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]. Coach Mike Woodson has tried to balance their offensively skewed squad by inserting the defense-focused [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] into the starting lineup, but the results have been disastrous.
    Numbers from NBA.com's advanced stats tool tell us that the lineup of Felton, [Only registered and activated users can see links. ], Brewer, Anthony and Chandler has played 71 minutes together since Dec. 1, giving up a pathetic 116.7 points per 100 possessions. That's the worst defensive rating for any of the 30 units across the NBA that have logged at least 70 minutes over that time. Adding insult to injury, that lineup's offense has scored a measly 85.4 points per 100 possessions over the same period.
    Going small hasn't paid dividends for the Knicks lately and it raises an important question: Does sliding Anthony to the 4 make sense if even a Defensive Player of the Year can't compensate for their woes on that end of the floor? The issues go beyond Anthony, who will never be confused with [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] as a defender. Kidd and [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] are older than time by NBA standards and their lack of athleticism has been exposed when asked to move more than a foot in either direction.
    Compounding the lack of mobility is that the Knicks just don't have reliable options outside of Chandler to plug the middle. Opponents have absolutely slammed the Knicks in the pick-and-roll this season -- they rank ninth-worst in the NBA according to SynergySports when the ball handler makes a scoring play -- but much of the damage is done when ball handlers keep Chandler on an island off the ball and exploit [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] and Thomas' glacier-like footspeed in open space.
    Small ball can work only if the perimeter defense is rock-solid and that hasn't been the case with the Knicks lately. So if the Knicks can't go small, then they'll have to go big, right?
    Therein lies the problem. Stoudemire carries a reputation of a star fit for coming to the rescue, but he's likely to make the Knicks' defensive issues worse, not better. He looked absolutely lost in Tuesday's loss to the Blazers, which can be excused because of rustiness. But the larger sample of the past three years points to an outlook just as grim.
    Despite their lofty contracts and reputations that have approached MVP candidate territory at times, the Knicks have been outscored with the Anthony-Stoudemire partnership on the floor by 2.3 points every 100 possessions since 2010-11. That's a sample size that is as big as you can get (1,659 minutes). The offense with them together would rank 10th in today's NBA, but the defense -- 27th.
    Chandler makes it all better, right? Wrong. In fact, the star trio of Anthony-Stoudemire-Chandler also has been a losing combination, being outscored by 1.8 points per 100 possessions in their time together on the floor. Why? The offense absolutely tanks with Anthony and those two bigs in the paint, scoring 98.5 points per 100 possessions over 794 minutes. You know who has a better offensive efficiency than that? The 2012-13 Bobcats, currently sporting a 98.7 points per 100 possessions, which is good for fourth-to-last this season.
    The news isn't all bad, Knicks fans. Look at the schedule. The Knicks have 12 games left in January and Thursday night's test against the Spurs represents the only one against a top-10 offense. And who knows, coach Gregg Popovich may or may not place a call to Southwest Airlines seeing as it's a back-to-back and their fourth game in five nights. All in all, nine of the Knicks' next 12 opponents are below-average offenses and the three that aren't will be played in Madison Square Garden.
    Under normal circumstances, the soft schedule would mean the Knicks are poised for a defensive correction, but these aren't normal circumstances. Integrating a healthy Stoudemire on the defensive end would be tough as it is, but he's nowhere near 100 percent as was evident by his grounded game Tuesday.
    The Knicks' title-contention status has always rested on their defense and considering Woodson's reputation as a defense-minded coach, that status is ironically on increasingly shaky ground. Are the Knicks legitimate contenders? With the defense reeling and Stoudemire's integration looming, the Knicks have more questions than answers.

  2. #2
    Huge Member smokes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    4,227
    Rep Power
    19

    Default

    Thanks for posting! Nice to get these articles that we couldn't usually see.

    This is something that we've all been talking about for weeks and it's getting ridiculous for sure. This team has the capability of being a lock down defensive team when they want to be but they choose to only turn it on for 1-2 quarters a game. It's tragic.

  3. #3
    Evacuee Crazy⑧s's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    日本
    Posts
    6,488
    Rep Power
    28

    Default

    Thanks for that, 0330.

    It's good to see the numbers alongside what we've all been freaking out about.

    WTF are we gonna do about Stoudemire? Might have to rein in the amazing capologist, LJ4ptplay.

  4. #4
    Veteran bigapple's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    west poland
    Posts
    1,202
    Rep Power
    5

    Default

    and that SPURS game is on TNT Barkley will be delighted of Knicks.

  5. #5
    Veteran petescud's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    1,821
    Rep Power
    9

    Default

    Their already saying the spurs gave up after 3 qtrs .. Honestly the league sucks making so many games in a week to play. Some weeks 2-3 games and in the spurs defense, 5 this week...

  6. #6
    Veteran bigapple's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    west poland
    Posts
    1,202
    Rep Power
    5

    Default

    Popovich done same thing last year he put their trio in 4th quarter but game ended smth about 126-113

    Blair again didnt play

    where i saw TNT airing that game


    now big friday Bulls @ Heat Clippers@Lakers

  7. #7
    Veteran DontForgetDerekHarper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    1,263
    Rep Power
    10

    Default

    Why do we do this, basically what we are saying is that the miami heat must be a joke for losing to us twice by 20 points and having only a one game step on us in the east. Teams dont go 82-0 and numbers breakdowns dont tell the story, after clippers ripped off a ridiculous winning streak they got blown out bad two nights in a row. It happens. The heat get blown out by the bucks, the bucks get blown out by the spurs, we blow out the spurs a few days after being beaten by the blazers who 2 nights ago got beat by 23 to the toronto raptors. The knicks struggles and documentation by the news has become pure hyperbole and media frenzied ridiculousness, every team has their issues and poor stretches in an NBA season ( barring the lakers/celtics/and bulls seasons where they won 68 + games ; we are 22-10 well on our way to 56-58 wins. We have a strong record against plus 500 teams, have a winning road record and are consistantly metamorphisizing week to week with regards to IR movement by players riding the pine or coming off the list.

    Stop drinking the kool-aid , the knicks are as legit as they were at 14-4.

    if they are not then i guess the clippers suck now for losing two in a row, the heat suck for losing to the wizards, and the spurs suck for getting blown out by us a strugging knicks team.

  8. #8
    Veteran
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    1,270
    Rep Power
    9

    Default

    I'm sure if the Knicks stay healthy going into the playoffs everyone, including the "biased media" will see the truth. This is a playoff team, built for series with plenty of offensive and athletic talent. As of now, we are just working on our defense and communication problems, with this mix of players we can only get better. After seeing how we're playing so early in the season I can't help but be optimistic. Get your hands off of the panic buttons guys, we are about as serious as we've ever been.

  9. #9
    Veteran p0nder's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    1,323
    Rep Power
    10

    Default

    Originally Posted by DontForgetDerekHarper
    Why do we do this, basically what we are saying is that the miami heat must be a joke for losing to us twice by 20 points and having only a one game step on us in the east. Teams dont go 82-0 and numbers breakdowns dont tell the story, after clippers ripped off a ridiculous winning streak they got blown out bad two nights in a row. It happens. The heat get blown out by the bucks, the bucks get blown out by the spurs, we blow out the spurs a few days after being beaten by the blazers who 2 nights ago got beat by 23 to the toronto raptors. The knicks struggles and documentation by the news has become pure hyperbole and media frenzied ridiculousness, every team has their issues and poor stretches in an NBA season ( barring the lakers/celtics/and bulls seasons where they won 68 + games ; we are 22-10 well on our way to 56-58 wins. We have a strong record against plus 500 teams, have a winning road record and are consistantly metamorphisizing week to week with regards to IR movement by players riding the pine or coming off the list.

    Stop drinking the kool-aid , the knicks are as legit as they were at 14-4.

    if they are not then i guess the clippers suck now for losing two in a row, the heat suck for losing to the wizards, and the spurs suck for getting blown out by us a strugging knicks team.
    THE MOST SENSE ANYONE HAS PUT ON THE BOARD IN MONTHS!!!

    DFDH is right. the knicks are LEGIT AS ****. 22-10 is a hell of a record for the knicks and the only reason they get **** on is cause we aren't chicago or indiana we're NEW YORK, the BIG apple and they FEAR US.


  10. #10
    Superstar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    624
    Rep Power
    8

    Default

    Originally Posted by DontForgetDerekHarper
    Why do we do this, basically what we are saying is that the miami heat must be a joke for losing to us twice by 20 points and having only a one game step on us in the east. Teams dont go 82-0 and numbers breakdowns dont tell the story, after clippers ripped off a ridiculous winning streak they got blown out bad two nights in a row. It happens. The heat get blown out by the bucks, the bucks get blown out by the spurs, we blow out the spurs a few days after being beaten by the blazers who 2 nights ago got beat by 23 to the toronto raptors. The knicks struggles and documentation by the news has become pure hyperbole and media frenzied ridiculousness, every team has their issues and poor stretches in an NBA season ( barring the lakers/celtics/and bulls seasons where they won 68 + games ; we are 22-10 well on our way to 56-58 wins. We have a strong record against plus 500 teams, have a winning road record and are consistantly metamorphisizing week to week with regards to IR movement by players riding the pine or coming off the list.

    Stop drinking the kool-aid , the knicks are as legit as they were at 14-4.

    if they are not then i guess the clippers suck now for losing two in a row, the heat suck for losing to the wizards, and the spurs suck for getting blown out by us a strugging knicks team.
    Awesome post

    Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2

  11. #11
    Veteran
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    2,790
    Rep Power
    15

    Default

    You got to laugh at these so-called experts, guy waited until the day we play one of the best teams in the NBA, the Spurs to write this article because odds are the Spurs beat the Knicks. So what happens, the Knicks play D and shoot lights out from behind the arc and take the Spurs in a cake walk.

    Anyway I agree with Pop and how he handles his guys, rest them during the regular season whenever you can so they're ready for the playoffs. That's another thing Woody has over D'Ants, doesn't play a short rotation of 8 guys like D'Antoni did and gets all his guys in the game.

  12. #12
    Veteran
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    2,795
    Rep Power
    10

    Default

    DFDH gets rep for that one.

    Seriously these guys who are bitching about the Knicks not being legit need to shut up...if any other team in the league were 22-10 nobody would be questioning whether or not it was all a fluke.

  13. #13
    Veteran knicksin60's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    1,676
    Rep Power
    9

    Default

    Did Stephen A Smith write that article? He believes that the Knicks aren't legit until they win a playoff series.

  14. #14
    Veteran
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    2,790
    Rep Power
    15

    Default

    Originally Posted by knicksin60
    Did Stephen A Smith write that article? He believes that the Knicks aren't legit until they win a playoff series.
    Tom Haberstroh wrote it. Just noticed the ratings chart didn't format right, big drop off from the start of the season. Smokes had it right about the team selectively turning up the defensive intensity.


    Q ORtg Rank DRtg Rank
    1 111.3 2nd 105.7 24th
    2 110.5 3rd 107.6 24th
    3 106.3 3rd 103 19th
    4 110 2nd 95.1 3rd
    Last edited by tiger0330; Jan 05, 2013 at 14:55.

  15. #15
    Huge Member smokes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    4,227
    Rep Power
    19

    Default

    Originally Posted by tiger0330
    Tom Haberstroh wrote it. Just noticed the ratings chart didn't format right, big drop off from the start of the season. Smokes had it right about the team selectively turning up the defensive intensity.


    Q ORtg Rank DRtg Rank
    1 111.3 2nd 105.7 24th
    2 110.5 3rd 107.6 24th
    3 106.3 3rd 103 19th
    4 110 2nd 95.1 3rd
    And so it continues.

Similar Threads

  1. Where the Knicks stand financially
    By Paul1355 in forum NY Knicks
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: Jul 09, 2012, 13:38
  2. isnt this the truth!
    By Smooth in forum NY Knicks
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: Feb 21, 2011, 13:05
  3. Chad Ford: Knicks Pitch To LBJ
    By Crazy⑧s in forum NY Knicks
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: May 27, 2010, 01:47
  4. Farewell Marbury???
    By lanceroy in forum NY Knicks
    Replies: 154
    Last Post: Jul 10, 2008, 19:22
  5. Lampe signs with NY Knicks
    By KnickFan2080 in forum NY Knicks
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: Jan 28, 2008, 00:17

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •