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Thread: Don't like the way the Knicks are playing

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    Default Don't like the way the Knicks are playing

    They play good in relatively short spurts and they typically take care of the ball, but they are far from a championship contender. Waaay too much iso and standing around. Did JR Smith even have one open look the entire game, but he jacked up 16 shots? That last three he hit is something I barely call an open look, it was a great close out. Novak hasn't seen more than a few good looks every now and then. They barely play pick and rolls and I did not see Melo go through one screen (didn't see the entire game) to get an open look from mid-range or rolling to the basket. There are barely any plays called for Stat - looks like his post game is legit, and looks more agile from a traditional low post position with his back to the basket. How many pick and rolls start with Stat? I think Melo can play decoy at times and set screen for others. Flat out, dude needs to create for others. I know he is a hell of a shooter, but enough of these off-balance threes.

    bottom line is this: the Knicks are not playing that well and must get their act together. Sure, when Felton returns to the lineup, it'll be a different story, but why does the entire chemistry have to change cause we are missing our starting pg. The NJ Nets (yes, I said NJ) and Heat will give the Knicks fits. I'd be more comfortable if we had a better backup pg that calls the shots and looks for others rather than go to Melo 90% of the time.

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    Huge Member smokes's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by shaolin
    They play good in relatively short spurts and they typically take care of the ball, but they are far from a championship contender. Waaay too much iso and standing around. Did JR Smith even have one open look the entire game, but he jacked up 16 shots? That last three he hit is something I barely call an open look, it was a great close out. Novak hasn't seen more than a few good looks every now and then. They barely play pick and rolls and I did not see Melo go through one screen (didn't see the entire game) to get an open look from mid-range or rolling to the basket. There are barely any plays called for Stat - looks like his post game is legit, and looks more agile from a traditional low post position with his back to the basket. How many pick and rolls start with Stat? I think Melo can play decoy at times and set screen for others. Flat out, dude needs to create for others. I know he is a hell of a shooter, but enough of these off-balance threes.

    bottom line is this: the Knicks are not playing that well and must get their act together. Sure, when Felton returns to the lineup, it'll be a different story, but why does the entire chemistry have to change cause we are missing our starting pg. The NJ Nets (yes, I said NJ) and Heat will give the Knicks fits. I'd be more comfortable if we had a better backup pg that calls the shots and looks for others rather than go to Melo 90% of the time.
    It just does. Surely you know this if you've watched the Knicks for the last few years? Billups goes down, Knicks suck. Lin goes down, Knicks suck. Felton goes down, Knicks suck.

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    Originally Posted by smokes
    It just does. Surely you know this if you've watched the Knicks for the last few years? Billups goes down, Knicks suck. Lin goes down, Knicks suck. Felton goes down, Knicks suck.
    it just means Felton is our best creator, and when he is in, other players tend to move more and look for open spots to give Felton passing lanes. There needs to be more creators. I think Melo would be more dangerous as a 24 ppg 6.5 rpg 5.5 apg player than try to drop 30 per night. Will there be a game that Melo shoots less than 20 shots?

    Most important point is that, if Melo looks to pass on 20% of the time, players will be more likely to move and screen each other and roll to the basket and crash the boards, etc.

    Anyway, my 2 cents.

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    Originally Posted by smokes
    It just does. Surely you know this if you've watched the Knicks for the last few years? Billups goes down, Knicks suck. Lin goes down, Knicks suck. Felton goes down, Knicks suck.
    This year is not like past years. We have Prigs and Kidd who should be able to step in for Felton and facilitate but the ball movement is definitely not the same maybe because we started off the season with red hot shooting and you could pass it off to an open Brewer or Sheed. Now Sheed and Felton are out and Brewer came back to earth you have 3 less options to swing it to.

    With Stat and Shump back and Felton due to return I don't think we've seen the best of Knicks bball yet this season. Camby and Sheed will only be a bonus when they get back.

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    TYPE-A Red's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by tiger0330
    This year is not like past years. We have Prigs and Kidd who should be able to step in for Felton and facilitate but the ball movement is definitely not the same maybe because we started off the season with red hot shooting and you could pass it off to an open Brewer or Sheed. Now Sheed and Felton are out and Brewer came back to earth you have 3 less options to swing it to.

    With Stat and Shump back and Felton due to return I don't think we've seen the best of Knicks bball yet this season. Camby and Sheed will only be a bonus when they get back.
    Kidd and Prigs?

    According to the depth chart Kidd and Prigs were BELOW Felton at the point.

    According to our record sans Felton we were 6-6.

    How can one expect two players lower on the depth chart to "facilitate" at the same rate as those above them? Hello?!

    Red-ism...

    "There is a reason why players are LOWER on the depth chart."

    Easy as A-B-C, 1-2-3, P-I-E.

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    Originally Posted by Red
    Kidd and Prigs?

    According to the depth chart Kidd and Prigs were BELOW Felton at the point.

    According to our record sans Felton we were 6-6.

    How can one expect two players lower on the depth chart to "facilitate" at the same rate as those above them? Hello?!

    Red-ism...

    "There is a reason why players are LOWER on the depth chart."

    Easy as A-B-C, 1-2-3, P-I-E.
    While I agree with your assessment to an extent, Prig and Kidd are pgs. They don't have to be the best creators - basically creating scoring opportunities out of thin air, the should jump start the offense. That can mean yelling out a play, calling out for a pick, setting screens (reminiscing how Stockton set some of the best screens for Malone) ... You get the point.

    I played college basketball and we set flair screens, back screens, screened the screener. The Knicks did all of that the first two weeks and Melo had all these clean looks. Sure, use his one-on-one, but mix it, be less predictable.

    And we should use Stat a lot more. And use JR a lot less. The Knicks were lucky to win last night.

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    Originally Posted by shaolin
    While I agree with your assessment to an extent, Prig and Kidd are pgs. They don't have to be the best creators - basically creating scoring opportunities out of thin air, the should jump start the offense. That can mean yelling out a play, calling out for a pick, setting screens (reminiscing how Stockton set some of the best screens for Malone) ... You get the point.

    I played college basketball and we set flair screens, back screens, screened the screener. The Knicks did all of that the first two weeks and Melo had all these clean looks. Sure, use his one-on-one, but mix it, be less predictable.

    And we should use Stat a lot more. And use JR a lot less. The Knicks were lucky to win last night.


    Coach Sloan had so many different double/tripple screening plays for Stocton/Hornachek/and Malone to get easy scores, that the NBA best defensive coaches had no solution on how their SG always end up defending 6.9 Karl Malone with 10 seconds left on the shot-clock. So many NBA PG to this day has tried to copy-right Stocton's performance, but they forget to add in coach Sloan's team-ball movement.

    Bingo.… u are on point, Kidd, Prig, and Felton dont call out any plays because every lineup Woodson put out on the court look like they never practice any screen-plays in practice with our most minute trio (Tyson/Melo/JR) .. we dont create well for others off the screen .. plus when any of our bigmen run out to set a high screen for the PG our other three teammates look like pityful statue on the peremeter .. to keep the turnovers down we dont pass to cutters or a moving teammate.
    Our defense & rebounding are poor for one reason and one reason alone, Melo & JR not letting teammates in the offense...

    PS .... I HATE the new update to KO

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    Originally Posted by Red
    Kidd and Prigs?

    According to the depth chart Kidd and Prigs were BELOW Felton at the point.

    According to our record sans Felton we were 6-6.

    How can one expect two players lower on the depth chart to "facilitate" at the same rate as those above them? Hello?!

    Red-ism...

    "There is a reason why players are LOWER on the depth chart."

    Easy as A-B-C, 1-2-3, P-I-E.
    Red - You're talking about JKidd destined for the HOF not Toney Douglas or Duhon, though Duhon could run a team. And while I have said Prigs is not as good as JLin, he's a willing upper echelon passer.

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    Huge Member smokes's Avatar
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    I agree but not sure Melo really has the capability to be that kind of player. We have next to no penetration with this team, Kidd can't do a great deal on the pick and roll, so we're just stagnant a lot of the time.

    Just have to hope Felton stays healthy the rest of the way.

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    Originally Posted by smokes
    I agree but not sure Melo really has the capability to be that kind of player. We have next to no penetration with this team, Kidd can't do a great deal on the pick and roll, so we're just stagnant a lot of the time.

    Just have to hope Felton stays healthy the rest of the way.
    I think he can. Even average about 4 to 4.5 apg is a start. he has such a scorers mentality. I do think he is a very underrated passer, and if you put him in position to pass, he will surprise most of us. The Knicks could be that team to make it far and be a bigger threat.

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    Originally Posted by shaolin
    I think he can. Even average about 4 to 4.5 apg is a start. he has such a scorers mentality. I do think he is a very underrated passer, and if you put him in position to pass, he will surprise most of us. The Knicks could be that team to make it far and be a bigger threat.
    We have seen Melo make great passes but as said above, scorers mentality. Him and JR are both selfish players. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate Melo, and he has one of the best postups. ISO plays happen way too much for the Knicks. PnR needs to happen more...we have one of the best center finishers in the league (Chandler) and we rely on taking contested 3's...that's a no-no...

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    it's the curse...

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    Ball movement is very sluggish.

    If you guys look at the first 12 games of the season, ball movement was a lot quicker with everyone, not just Felton and Rasheed (who are missed greatly)

    Ball moves slow...more iso ball and low percentage shots.

    We should of blown out the Celtics.

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    Originally Posted by Ghostowl
    We have seen Melo make great passes but as said above, scorers mentality. Him and JR are both selfish players. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate Melo, and he has one of the best postups. ISO plays happen way too much for the Knicks. PnR needs to happen more...we have one of the best center finishers in the league (Chandler) and we rely on taking contested 3's...that's a no-no...

    Good Point .... KG are the Celtics starting center & PF, and the backup center & PF .... the first game vs Boston we had Camby/Tyson/Stat/Melo/and Copeland to spot up down-low to get KG in foul trouble within 3 minutes on the court .. we scored 28 points in the paint compare to Boston 40 points in the paint.
    The 2nd game vs Boston they scored 50 points in the paint on us, we scored 32 points in the paint.

    Evaluation factor of both games show KG is better bigman on both ends of the court than all our bigmen put together .... Now u got an example of how Camby/Nene/and Kenyon Martin felt playing 48 minutes of ISO-Melo on the Denver Nuggets...

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    We should just go back to a normal starting 5. Playing 3 guards is really dumb. Josh Smith will be all over shumpert and kyle korver is way too big for jason kidd. Plus Amar'e has been great for us these past few games. We can use felton and him on the pick and roll. When you wanna spread the floor just put in novak and smith for shump and amare. We lost yesterdays game because our players are so out of position. Shumpert was a pg when he came in this league and woodson has him playing the sf? really?
    Felton
    Shump
    Melo
    Amar'e
    Tyson

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