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Thread: It's hard for me to say this but

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    12th man
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    Default It's hard for me to say this but

    Amare and Chandler should be featured more in the offense.

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    Watch that video before you read this.

    Chandler is averaging 12 ppg on 68% FG shooting.
    Amare is posting a 20.2 PER and is averaging 12.7 points on 55% FG shooting in 22 minutes.

    Carmelo of course should be the primary option, but his shot attempts should be lowered, Chandler and Amare are efficient scoring options who have the ability to give you 15-18 points if you give them more looks.


    This team have 3 guys, Shumpert, Smith, and Felton who can penetrate and get shots in the paint for Chandler and Amare.

    I feel like if we don't FEATURE these guys more Carmelo will be worned out and possibly be prone to injury with the amount of activity he's taking. We have two tools we need to use more to preserve Melo for the playoffs.

    Amare has been impressive on offense and has actually finished around the rim well. He's taking less jumpers and is attacking the basket.

    Chandler's hook shot has been effective and he shouldn't be in shy in using it.

    Chandler and Amare should get 15 shots a game a piece, or this offense won't reach it's full potential.

    JR Smith should use his agility and quick to pass and get assist, he has ability to score; but maybe that's not the best thing for us right now. Kobe has been averaging over 10 assist the last couple of games and it has done magic for the Los Angeles Lakers....maybe JR Smith should follow that role and try to be a creator on offense.

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    ★The Floor General★ Knicks4Life_1985's Avatar
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    Over the last two practices JR and Shump have been used more as facilitators of the offense since Kidd is beat up. I think you will see JR and Shump average 8-10 assist a game between the two which is gold. If the Knicks were to feature our bigs more it might open up Melo for more of this.


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    Superstar welcometonycity's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by metrocard
    Amare and Chandler should be featured more in the offense.

    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    Watch that video before you read this.

    Chandler is averaging 12 ppg on 68% FG shooting.
    Amare is posting a 20.2 PER and is averaging 12.7 points on 55% FG shooting in 22 minutes.

    Carmelo of course should be the primary option, but his shot attempts should be lowered, Chandler and Amare are efficient scoring options who have the ability to give you 15-18 points if you give them more looks.


    This team have 3 guys, Shumpert, Smith, and Felton who can penetrate and get shots in the paint for Chandler and Amare.

    I feel like if we don't FEATURE these guys more Carmelo will be worned out and possibly be prone to injury with the amount of activity he's taking. We have two tools we need to use more to preserve Melo for the playoffs.

    Amare has been impressive on offense and has actually finished around the rim well. He's taking less jumpers and is attacking the basket.

    Chandler's hook shot has been effective and he shouldn't be in shy in using it.

    Chandler and Amare should get 15 shots a game a piece, or this offense won't reach it's full potential.

    JR Smith should use his agility and quick to pass and get assist, he has ability to score; but maybe that's not the best thing for us right now. Kobe has been averaging over 10 assist the last couple of games and it has done magic for the Los Angeles Lakers....maybe JR Smith should follow that role and try to be a creator on offense.
    excellent post on our post! Did you email this to woody yet??

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    Great points.

    Look at the Lakers during their latest 2 of 3 run. Kobe has been more of a facilatator, moving the ball around to teammates early on, rather than pounding the rock, facing up his defender and going one on one. It gets the rest of the team involved early, and when involved early you will have them around late....an old MJ philosophy. Dirk is also good at saving gas, facilitating early, there would be nights he'd have 5 points at the half, but finish the game with 30. Given the full health, especially Felton, Shump, you get these 2 to create open shots for the Big 3. Move within the confines of your system, get Melo, to facilitate early in ball games, then if needed we start isolating him in crunch time. When you start isolating your top 10 talent, it's an effective way to take care of late game crunch time possessions, while minimizing turnovers. I think it's more Melo needing to understand that he needs to pick his spots and he should realize his spots become 100% in the last 5 minutes in a 10 point contest. And if we're up 15-20, he sits the last 5 minutes. With this MJ philosophy that Kobe's working with, Melo can cruise through games, if they're blowouts, a couple 3rd QTR Novak bombs, sits, Melo the rest of the night.

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    Huge Member smokes's Avatar
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    Yep great post.

    Another interesting stat you can add to this argument is the Knicks outscore their opponents by 13.5 points per 48 minutes when our big 3 of Melo/Amare/Tyson are on the floor together.

    Tyson needs the new Amare who actually can switch and defend at an average level so he can be more aggressive defensively. Every time I see an uncontested layup drift in over Tyson without him putting his hands up I cry a little inside and realise more and more than Melo at the PF is just not sensible.

    This article was posted on realgm today where they say Amare has "fully adjusted to reserve role". This just depresses me. Unless they plan to feature him heavily in around 28-30 minutes of action and feature him plenty with Melo and Tyson I really don't like this reserve role going forward.

    STAT is a beast on offense and apart from the very few times Melo posts up each game we have no one who can reliably score inside by themselves. The only way the Knicks have played "inside out" this whole season is from Felton's penetration and those rare occasions where JR Smith/Melo drives instead of settling for a jumpshot.

    With STAT and Tyson beasting and feasting below the rim and Melo featured enough to get him 5+ shots a quarter I just don't see the problem. Melo doesn't need to take 25-30 shots every night.

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    Originally Posted by smokes
    Yep great post.

    Another interesting stat you can add to this argument is the Knicks outscore their opponents by 13.5 points per 48 minutes when our big 3 of Melo/Amare/Tyson are on the floor together.

    Tyson needs the new Amare who actually can switch and defend at an average level so he can be more aggressive defensively. Every time I see an uncontested layup drift in over Tyson without him putting his hands up I cry a little inside and realise more and more than Melo at the PF is just not sensible.

    This article was posted on realgm today where they say Amare has "fully adjusted to reserve role". This just depresses me. Unless they plan to feature him heavily in around 28-30 minutes of action and feature him plenty with Melo and Tyson I really don't like this reserve role going forward.

    STAT is a beast on offense and apart from the very few times Melo posts up each game we have no one who can reliably score inside by themselves. The only way the Knicks have played "inside out" this whole season is from Felton's penetration and those rare occasions where JR Smith/Melo drives instead of settling for a jumpshot.

    With STAT and Tyson beasting and feasting below the rim and Melo featured enough to get him 5+ shots a quarter I just don't see the problem. Melo doesn't need to take 25-30 shots every night.
    Sometimes your best defense is your offense. Amare wheeling and dealing, abusing guys down low, will take a toll late in games, a blow here a blow there, takes them bit by bit out of the equation.

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    Superstar elcol's Avatar
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    I think we really saw that in the game against the magic. Melo didn't score much and we saw some nice ball movement and dishing from everyone. A'mare is really starting to ease into it and tyson gets loads of lobs so yeah they definitely need to be part of the scoring.

    With Felton back I don't think there will be much of a reliance on Melo because the movement and fluidity is back.

  8. #8
    Quiet Storm New New York's Avatar
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    The main catalyst (to borrow from Walt) is Felton!

    For all the talk about Amare being a back to the basket player (which is looking like it is coming along) he is still a pick and roll player and a player who scores on penetration from guards.

    Go back and check the highlights of the Magic game Tyson got a large amount of his shots on drive and dishes

    Felton had 17 pts 9 ast and 0 to's last night making his play the most well rounded of any Knick last night...of course his struggles were on the defensive end!

    The Suns ran pick and rolls about 15x per game w Nash and Amaer yet they were effective despite teams knowing exactly what was coming

    The Hornets ran those lob plays for Tyson about 6x per game yet it could not be stopped even though every team knew it was coming.

    Felton runs those lob plays almost as good as Paul did and the pick roll almost as good as Nash did w/ Amare....if we can get these two plays going with Shump and Melo on the perimeter then watch out!

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    Thank u Metro .... I been saying this all last season, during the ISO-Melo era.
    I watch to many 50 win seasons from the ISO-Melo Denver Nuggets, and when the postseason arrive all Melo's teammates leave him hanging by himself to explain to the PRESS on Denver getting swept again in the first round.

    We witness this in our first postseason game with Melo vs Boston Celtics, with the Knicks leading by 5 points with 2 minutes left in the game, and Billups pulled-out with an injury. Billups wouldve never did that in any postseason games with the Detroit Pistons...

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    hmmm, an interesting thread.

    The concerns are noted and seem to have some legit points, but I'll reserve my comments until we play about 60 games. Right now I see a whole lot of experimentation and players getting playing time on a winning team. Our last coach let players rot on the bench without getting time to play along side their team mates in various situations. I like how coach Woody is getting the whole team some shine. I'm sure we will have a definite starting lineup before the post season, as of now I see the whole team getting good mins with the stars....while we are still winning games, healing and resting players. It's all good as far as I'm concern...

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    Huge Member smokes's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Real NY Baller
    hmmm, an interesting thread.

    The concerns are noted and seem to have some legit points, but I'll reserve my comments until we play about 60 games. Right now I see a whole lot of experimentation and players getting playing time on a winning team. Our last coach let players rot on the bench without getting time to play along side their team mates in various situations. I like how coach Woody is getting the whole team some shine. I'm sure we will have a definite starting lineup before the post season, as of now I see the whole team getting good mins with the stars....while we are still winning games, healing and resting players. It's all good as far as I'm concern...
    I agree somewhat, however now it's approaching the time of year when rotations get tightened up so we need to see progress in this area soon.

    I don't mind the experimentation but some of it is just bound to fail. When I see a lineup of Prigioni - Smith - Cope - Novak - STAT on the floor it just makes my head spin.

    The Knicks also have a lot of issues in tightening up the rotation. Do we realistically expect to have Camby or Sheed available for the playoffs? I'm very unsure at this stage. If not we absolutely have to get a new big into the fold and work them into the rotation.

    Glaring issues in the rotation right now surrounding all facets of the team.

    The backcourt: who starts? Who backs up who? Who plays significant minutes from game to game? Our backcourt is logjammed and most of our players have a role to fill. Do we want to keep Brewer in case of injury backup, or possibly trade him for a defensive big man? These are all questions that need to be resolved in the next 20 days.

    The frontcourt: is Amare ever going to start this year? The media murmurs seem to suggest he's going to be a bench weapon all year long. I'm not really ok with this. Melo might go off offensively at the 4 but there's no excuse in letting him get devoured by bigs on teams like the Bulls and the Grizz. I want to see STAT playing a lot at the 4 when we play these teams again, it might be our one shot at getting over the hump against them. As mentioned the status of Camby and Sheed is completely up in the air and if we want to replace them we may need to get moving before trade deadline.

    Another huge issue with the frontcourt is the status of Novak. He's being used pretty randomly and sporadically lately, and right now he feels like a square peg in a round hole. Could we bear to trade Novak away for the right piece in return? I say hell yes. Although I'd be sorry to see the back of him, he definitely could help a lot of teams that lack depth at the 3 spot and don't have any good knockdown 3 point shooters. Some package of Novak + Copeland could possibly get us an Ed Davis type, that trade makes a lot of sense in my head. The Grizz are weak at the 2/3 and very weak outside the arc. They have a ridiculously solid frontcourt and given they are making trades for financial reasons I don't think they have championship aspirations right now, but a trade like this could make both teams better.

    If we keep Novak we need to find a true role for him. As far as I see it Novak is only useful a) vs garbage units and b) when Melo is on the floor drawing double teams. Other than that he disappears on offense and his defense is questionable at best. It's just not a good fit because Melo/Tyson on the floor means we are playing against teams good units, where Novak is a liability.

    The Knicks don't have a whole lot of assets available for trade right now, but with these mid season injuries and trades, opportunities will arise. I believe Brandon Bass will be traded by the Celtics soon, whilst he doesn't exactly fill the need the Knicks have in the rebounding area he's a big body with some offensive game, he could be useful to us.
    Last edited by smokes; Feb 01, 2013 at 15:06.

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    Originally Posted by smokes
    I agree somewhat, however now it's approaching the time of year when rotations get tightened up so we need to see progress in this area soon.

    I don't mind the experimentation but some of it is just bound to fail. When I see a lineup of Prigioni - Smith - Cope - Novak - STAT on the floor it just makes my head spin.

    The Knicks also have a lot of issues in tightening up the rotation. Do we realistically expect to have Camby or Sheed available for the playoffs? I'm very unsure at this stage. If not we absolutely have to get a new big into the fold and work them into the rotation.

    Glaring issues in the rotation right now surrounding all facets of the team.

    The backcourt: who starts? Who backs up who? Who plays significant minutes from game to game? Our backcourt is logjammed and most of our players have a role to fill. Do we want to keep Brewer in case of injury backup, or possibly trade him for a defensive big man? These are all questions that need to be resolved in the next 20 days.

    The frontcourt: is Amare ever going to start this year? The media murmurs seem to suggest he's going to be a bench weapon all year long. I'm not really ok with this. Melo might go off offensively at the 4 but there's no excuse in letting him get devoured by bigs on teams like the Bulls and the Grizz. I want to see STAT playing a lot at the 4 when we play these teams again, it might be our one shot at getting over the hump against them. As mentioned the status of Camby and Sheed is completely up in the air and if we want to replace them we may need to get moving before trade deadline.

    Another huge issue with the frontcourt is the status of Novak. He's being used pretty randomly and sporadically lately, and right now he feels like a square peg in a round hole. Could we bear to trade Novak away for the right piece in return? I say hell yes. Although I'd be sorry to see the back of him, he definitely could help a lot of teams that lack depth at the 3 spot and don't have any good knockdown 3 point shooters. Some package of Novak + Copeland could possibly get us an Ed Davis type, that trade makes a lot of sense in my head. The Grizz are weak at the 2/3 and very weak outside the arc. They have a ridiculously solid frontcourt and given they are making trades for financial reasons I don't think they have championship aspirations right now, but a trade like this could make both teams better.

    If we keep Novak we need to find a true role for him. As far as I see it Novak is only useful a) vs garbage units and b) when Melo is on the floor drawing double teams. Other than that he disappears on offense and his defense is questionable at best. It's just not a good fit because Melo/Tyson on the floor means we are playing against teams good units, where Novak is a liability.

    The Knicks don't have a whole lot of assets available for trade right now, but with these mid season injuries and trades, opportunities will arise. I believe Brandon Bass will be traded by the Celtics soon, whilst he doesn't exactly fill the need the Knicks have in the rebounding area he's a big body with some offensive game, he could be useful to us.
    green rep.

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    @ Smokes, Yes, I do see where you're coming from...
    But, for some strange reason I’m feeling Sheed and Camby is not as hurt as the Knicks want us to think. I honestly think they are being saved for later; Coach doesn’t seem too enthused about rushing them back. Woodson has been caught a couple times misleading the media and public about the severity of his player’s injuries, I’m not so sure if I would want to disclose that bit of insight about my team either. I see those guys as vocal leaders due to their experience and when the PO’s come and/or playing in tight important games these dudes will be the hitmen/muscle. I see them sacrificing their fouls and mins for the team. I do agree the heavy rotations should start to taper off, I just view our situation as trying to find out what we’re working with, coach needs to see who can do what and who can play with who.
    Novak, is a big question mark for me. We all have seen what he can do from 3pt land last year, but this year he seems to be deferring and concentrating more on his defense. I’ll be afraid to trade him because with our luck he’ll end up on a team that will be playing us in the post season. I’m thinking we’ll be better off keeping him for the long haul. Right now…his contributions (or lack of) isn’t really helping or hurting us. Brewer is another question mark; I always felt that he was holding Shumps spot until he got back. After the all star break (trade deadline) the coach is going to be a bit more stable with the rotation. Guess he’s trying to see what to keep and what to let go….it's still time left. I'm waiting a lil bit longer before I start giving him and/or the team the biz. They are giving me some happy times in bball this year, so i'll give them the benifit of the doubt, a few more games should bring us all a bit more clarity on what this team is really about. oh, nice post btw.

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    Huge Member smokes's Avatar
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    ^ Yeah I get where you're coming from we're just fast approaching that point in the season where decisions need to be made.

    Trade deadline is 22nd of this month. I think there are a few suitable West Coast destinations for Novak that could net the Knicks some quality heading towards the post season. The obvious one would be LA. Could we tantalize MDA with an offer of Novak for Earl Clark? Seems doubtful with their current frontcourt issues but anything's possible.

    We missed the boat on the Memphis trade most likely but there are other trades being floated around the league. ATL and PHX seem to be heading towards a deal that would send Josh Smith to the Suns, with Gortat going the other way. Could the Knicks take advantage of this to land a fringe big man like Zaza? It's possible.

    These are the kinda deals the Knicks need to take advantage of, getting involved in a 3 team gives us a much better chance of making a beneficial deal than trading straight up with anyone, since our assets are slim and the way STAT has been playing I don't think it's time to trade him.

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    How about Josh Smith to the Knicks?

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