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Thread: Starting five: Is it time for a change?

  1. #1
    TYPE-A Red's Avatar
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    Media Starting five: Is it time for a change?

    Is it time for a change?

    Mike Woodson has hinted several times over the past few days that he’s thinking about altering his starting lineup.

    Ultimately, though, he’s decided each time to stick with the same unit: [Only registered and activated users can see links. ], [Only registered and activated users can see links. ], [Only registered and activated users can see links. ], [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] and [Only registered and activated users can see links. ].

    With the Knicks mired in a season-high four-game losing streak, do you think Woodson needs to make a change?

    Here are a few options to consider:

    THE LINEUP: Felton, Shumpert, Smith, Anthony, Chandler

    WHY IT COULD WORK: The Knicks have had a tough time guarding the opponent’s off guard for long stretches of the season. The culprit, at times, has been Jason Kidd.

    Kidd has had difficulty stopping bigger, faster guards while in the starting lineup. In the lineup above, Shumpert would switch to the 2 and, ideally, would be able to make life tough for the opposing shooting guard.

    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] could also boost the Knicks on both sides of the ball and his presence at small forward would allow Anthony to stay at power forward, where he’s enjoyed a mismatch all season.

    THE DRAWBACK: Inserting Smith into the starting lineup takes a significant amount of firepower away from the Knicks' bench, which has been a strength all season. In theory, though, Kidd would strengthen the second unit.

    THE LINEUP: Felton, Shumpert, Anthony, Stoudemire, Chandler

    WHY IT COULD WORK: The Anthony-Stoudemire-Chandler trio wasn’t effective last season. But thanks to Stoudemire’s improved post game, the three stars have been more productive when sharing the floor this year, so this lineup may be effective.

    THE DRAWBACK: Stoudemire continues to be a liability on the defensive end. So inserting him into the starting five would compromise the defense. It would also force Anthony to move to small forward.

    THE LINEUP: Felton, Shumpert, Copeland, Anthony, Chandler

    WHY IT COULD WORK: Adding Copeland to the starting lineup gives the Knicks another scoring threat alongside Anthony. This lineup would also force Kidd to the bench, which, again, would benefit the second unit. This lineup could also be more effective at limiting the opposing backcourt.

    THE DRAWBACK: Copeland has shown he can score, but the rookie struggles to get stops. So the lineup above could struggle on defense.

    Question: Would you change the Knicks' starting five? If so, which lineup would you go with? Why?

    courtesy of: [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]



    I'm wondering what's taking so long?

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    Member Number3's Avatar
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    We need a defensive line up... Have you seen how many points teams have been scoring on us...
    Remember the twin tower starting lineup of camby n chandler.n how well it worked

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    Hell yeah we need to change the starting lineup ASAP .. plus create a bench lineup without JR in it.

    SG-JR belongs in the starting lineup with Ball-HOLDING SF-Melo & PG-Felton, add C-Tyson with Kurt, or Sheed, or K-Mart.

    Bench lineup to start the 2nd quarter should be PG-Prig / SG-Shump / SF-Copeland / PF-Amare / C-Camby / 6th-man Kidd / Novak .. These 7 players will gell quicker on offense/defense to win 60% of our games.

    The 40 minute Melo, 35 minute JR, 33 minute Felton, and 31 minute Tyson, has no gellin-chemistry or communication to compliment one another skills/talent to be the leaders of this team .. they are 0-4 heading into the midseason playoff run...

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    Member deamon's Avatar
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    S5: Felton, Shumpert, Melo, Martin, Chandler
    Second unit: Kidd, Smith, Copeland, Wallace, Stoudemire

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    Super Moderator RunningJumper's Avatar
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    Starting 5:

    PG: Kidd
    SG: Shumpert
    SF: Carmelo Anthony
    PF: Kenyon Martin
    C: Tyson Chandler

    Kidd starts the game off with composure and smart play. Shumpert's in for perimeter defense and scoring. I wouldn't be opposed to Camby starting with Chandler, in fact I'd love it. The reason why I'd put Martin in the starting line-up is because he can score as well, which hasn't been a strong point of the Knicks either. I wanted the Camby/Chandler duo to start before. Did Woodson ever do that?

    I wrote more on the bench, but not enough minutes to go around. I even forgot about Amar'e. My main focus when I was typing that was defense and ball-movement (Prigiono at PG).

    The thing Woodson has to do is be willing to put a non-regular rotation player in such as Copeland and Kurt Thomas if it's one of those nights such as against the Pacers and Raptors. Why wouldn't he insert Thomas in more? Is Woodson a defensive specialist or not?

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    Veteran bigapple's Avatar
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    Woody said no changes in S5 even when Shump scoring % is 20 he will be keeping him for D.

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    Member PaPZ187's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Number3
    We need a defensive line up... Have you seen how many points teams have been scoring on us...
    Remember the twin tower starting lineup of camby n chandler.n how well it worked
    +1

    Depending on health, stamina, chemistry, etc I would go with

    C - Chandler
    PF - KMart (Camby)
    SF - Melo
    SG - Shumpert
    PG - Felton

    I think having Amare start would be ideal IF D wasnt such a huge liability in the unit......there are definitely alot of pieces to mix and match, especially on 2nd unit......hopefully we get some chemistry going as we make a run for 2nd seed and into the playoffs

    Sent from my LG-P999

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    Member MadJack's Avatar
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    I would go

    PG - Prigioni
    SG - JR Smith
    SF - Melo
    PF - STAT
    C - Tyson

    That would be the most normal basketball lineup. A point guard that can pass. A shooting guard that can shoot. A small forward that can score from both outside and inside. A power forward that can score a high percentage from close. And a center for defense.

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    The question remains .. does Woodson know how to coach a 9 or 10 man rotation?

    What is Woodson going to do when all 15 players are healthy to perform? keep on DNP 7 to 8 players per game? did someone mention Damnphoney?

    Novak & JR belong in the starting lineup so we could explore a bench-lineup using Kidd, Shump, Stat, (and Camby return) to spice up the gellin in Prig & Copeland pick n roll, and defensive-switch.
    We are going to need a lot of depth off our bench to win a 7 game series.
    Plus JR, Novak, Felton are perfect starters for the double n tripple team on Iso-Melo.

    not to many of our players are co-existin well with our 4 (Felton/JR/Melo/Tyson) most minute played players in our Finisher lineup. Our finisher-lineup is a bigger problem than our starter-lineup.

  10. #10
    Veteran nyk_nyk's Avatar
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    Chandler
    Amare or Martin
    Melo
    Shump
    Felton

    This is the kind of lineup Woodson should be working towards! Melo at the 4 is great offensively but it hurts the balance of the lineup. Correct me if i'm wrong, but hasn't Melo been tearing up the league for years playing at the SF position?? Woodson is proving to be a stubborn man. I was positive he would alter the lineup last night but he didn't and still allowed Kidd to play way too many minutes. We all want Kidd to be that saavy player who will be the wild card for us in the postseason, but based on what I see now he won't have anything left. He's already done aside from a few plays here and there.

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    Y'all jokin with this Martin startin right?!! Dude hasn't played in almost a year and you want this guy in the lineup over STAT.... y'all musta bumbed yo heads! STAT is back to playin at a high level and deserves to be back in the starting rotation. Truthfully he needs more touches and Melo needs less right about now. Start the game off with the main focus centered around STAT then finish with Melo....guaranteed success.
    my 2 pesos

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    this isnt about starting but,, Cope needs to get Novaks minutes, Novak will make 2 3s and make some of ya horny with his belt but the truth is he costs us too many damn points its like playing with 4 players on the defensive side,, not saying Cope is great defender but has energy will rebound and play lil better than Novak, plus he isnt a 1 dimension offensive player, has more opportunites to score

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    Default Losing patience & points

    GREENBURGH, N.Y. -- Don't expect to see*Amar'e Stoudemire
    in the starting lineup anytime soon.

    Mike Woodson made it clear in two separate interviews on Monday that he expects Stoudemire's role to remain the same, which means Stoudemire will continue to come off the bench.

    The "Start STAT!" issue has come up in recent days because the Knicks' starting five has struggled for the past few weeks. So some media and fans have suggested that Woodson insert Stoudemire into the lineup.

    Woodson recognizes that his starting lineup could use a spark. But he doesn't see Stoudemire as a solution to the problem.


    "It's nice to start a game and jump on teams (early) ... but that hasn't been our M-O for the last month or so. Starting STAT, I'm not sure that is the answer," Woodson said Monday in an interview on ESPN New York 98.7 FM's "The Stephen A. Smith & Ryan Ruocco Show." "I think he's very comfortable with where he is right now, I'm comfortable where he is in terms of coming off (the bench)."

    Stoudemire has been coming off of the Knicks' bench since returning from offseason knee surgery on January 1.

    And he's thrived in the role.

    Stoudemire scored 22 points in 22 minutes in the Knicks' win over Philly on Sunday.

    On the season, he's averaging 13.7 points and five rebounds in 22.8 minutes. He's also shooting 57 percent from the floor.

    That he's done so while coming off of the bench has been a big storyline surrounding the team for several reasons. Here are two: Stoudemire had been a starter for his first ten years in the NBA and he's in the third year of a $100 million contract.
    Woodson has already lost points in my book for his lack of defensive strategy. He is now f*cking with my patience. We are .500 in our last 30 games- 2 months- after a great start and I see no real viable solutions not to mention how disingenuous he appears after planning to start STAT at the beginning of the season.

    If and or when we get eliminated I will be looking back at these type of stubborn decisions, considering the lack of ingenuity, and more than likely conclude this coach was all talk no action. And that's sad because not only am I one of his supporters but that increases the odds of our team being all talk, no action.smh

    Btw- I don't need to understand his thinking; in fact he needs to understand mine. I've seen small-ball; no-defense;, 3 point happy; poor rebounding; poorly motivated teams for too long not to recognize what I'm seeing... and they lost.

    Woodson... start STAT (by sitting Kidd) or else. Before someone (like kidd) gets hurt by you being stubborn and overplaying players out-of-position.

    Are you Woodson or D'Antoni? The uncanny similarities.

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    Member Fat Elvis's Avatar
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    I'm getting tired of playing Shump out of position at the 3, and with Kidd getting so many minutes. Amar'e should be getting those minutes, IMO - he's showed flashes of brilliance in the post - he's just not getting enough shots. My ideal lineup would be

    Felton
    Shump
    Melo
    Chandler
    Stoudemire

    However, there are some legitimate issues with making that happen right now: First and foremost, we don't have any healthy big men, so either Chandler or Amare have to be on the floor at any given time. If Sheed comes back, this should change. Also, we don't have anyone besides 'Melo who is a legitimate starter at the 3. This should be a reason to start Amar'e, but see my previous point.

    I think we're leaning way too much on Kidd. He hasn't been producing lately and seems sluggish. Dude is too old to be chasing around shooting guards for 30 minutes every night.

    Maybe Kenyon Martin will provide a good lift off the bench and allow Amar'e to be inserted into the starting lineup. Something needs to be shaken up a bit

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    Originally Posted by Fat Elvis
    I'm getting tired of playing Shump out of position at the 3, and with Kidd getting so many minutes. Amar'e should be getting those minutes, IMO - he's showed flashes of brilliance in the post - he's just not getting enough shots. My ideal lineup would be

    Felton
    Shump
    Melo
    Chandler
    Stoudemire

    However, there are some legitimate issues with making that happen right now: First and foremost, we don't have any healthy big men, so either Chandler or Amare have to be on the floor at any given time. If Sheed comes back, this should change. Also, we don't have anyone besides 'Melo who is a legitimate starter at the 3. This should be a reason to start Amar'e, but see my previous point.

    I think we're leaning way too much on Kidd. He hasn't been producing lately and seems sluggish. Dude is too old to be chasing around shooting guards for 30 minutes every night.

    Maybe Kenyon Martin will provide a good lift off the bench and allow Amar'e to be inserted into the starting lineup. Something needs to be shaken up a bit
    Agree on all points.

    Ideally I think we all want to see Shump play his natural position at the 2 guard and have Kidd in a more limited role, which will hopefully leave enough in his tank for a playoff run.

    Small ball may be nice during the regular season and can create mismatches offensively for Melo at the 4, but I don't see it taking us far into the playoffs, plus Melo is taking a beating defensively.

    In the end the ultimate goal is to win a championship......and you do that with your best players I believe. With that said, I am still on the fence about STAT starting at the 4. He has been effective off the bench, but I would like to see someone with more of a defensive presence like Camby or Martin (depending on health, effectiveness, stamina, etc) starting and Amare coming in with the 2nd unit to wreak havoc offensively as well as finish games.

    If Camby or Martin starts at the 4 with Melo at the 3 and Felton running the point then I would like to see more of an offensive output from the 2. Maybe Shump settles in back at his natural position and becomes more efficient, or you have to start JR to give Melo support on the offensive side of the ball......but you need someone that can be a threat and score consistently to go along with Tyson, Camby, Felton and Melo IMO come playoff time.

    If Shump can get back to where he was pre Injury (or close to it) then I would be good with

    C - Chandler
    PF - Camby
    SF - Melo
    SG - Shump
    PG - Felton

    For a starting 5 in the playoffs with Amare and Smith providing firepower off the bench. All depends on how effective the starting 5 is though to make it work.

    Sent from my LG-P999

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