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Thread: Ball movement vs. Iso melo? Question for you BALLERS in the know.

  1. #46
    Scoring Champ CA7's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by skisloper
    Do you not realize the consequence of Melo/JR Iso Ball....

    . We are so predictable.
    We do not wear the defense down.
    . Melo/JR put so much energy into scoring we lose their best effort on defense....remember these are 40 and 36 minute players.....we need them 100% on the defensive end.

    There is no doubt at the end of the game you want the Ball in Melo's hand BUT only if we have spent the first 3 quarters wearing down the defense and wearing down Melo with all this ISO ball.......

    When you look back at a few games this season Melo was just unbelievable.............Look back on the boards and you would hear " Melo was a Beast on the boards " and " If Melo plays Defense like that he is the MVP " this is stuff Melo needs to do every night....
    Now the question for you guys is why does Melo not do it ????? Or JR ???

    My answer is that when you spend too much time of each shot clock playing ISO ball it wears down 1 defender only and at the same time totally wear down the ISO Player. You have seen time and time again Melo and JR not sprinting back and you need to say either they do not care or they are just wiped.....has to be something....

    Last night Noah sprinted back on every possession.....Is it too much to ask Melo and JR to do the same ?
    Last night you saw Nate breakdown an exhausted Miami team at the end.....Do you think they got exhausted by the Bulls playing ISO ? or better they were exhausted from the bulls ball movement and tough defense...

    **** Big Chief .......look at the Bulls scorers.......please do not tell me Melo has nobody to pass too.....This is the NBA ...find an open man for an easy shot.............*********

    I 100% want the ball in Melos hands at the end....after we have played 3 quarters of moving the ball and wearing down our opponent both on the offensive end with ball movement and on the defensive end with pure hustle and never allowing an open shot......

    Its so simple.........Dont be so sensitive Melo......I at least agree he is a super ball player........

    Could anyone imagine Melo or JR playing in Chicago under Their coach...........
    I get you dude but what about the defense, rebounding and effort

    ball movement doesn't fix those things so what will

  2. #47
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    Originally Posted by CA7
    I get you dude but what about the defense, rebounding and effort

    ball movement doesn't fix those things so what will

    We agree Melo is our star player.
    He needs to set the precedent .
    When he is a beast on the offensive boards and plays tight defense the rest will follow...

    Do you remember early in the season when Melo flew over the crowd to try and save the ball and the crowd went nuts..........Not just the crowd but when teammates see that it inspires.......There is alot of pressure on Melo and thats what you get when your the teams franchise player whether you want it or you dont....

    I do think ball movement fixes those issues. You need to wear the other team down and thats by moving the ball and making the defense work.......

    Pacers on a tough team with their size and hopefully Woodson adjusts........Melo when he chooses is an incredible rebounder down low and he needs to show that tonight ( unless he cannot due to his shoulder ).......

    Alot rides on MELO not because of his scoring ability but his ability to play defense, Rebound and set the precedent for his team.

    As for JR the minute Woody sees him not hustle back on defense he needs to come out......

    Knicks have to leave everything on the court tonight for every play....There should be no lapse in effort in the 48 minutes they are on the floor........

    Woody needs to be quick with decisions...If Kidd looks like a zombie again then play Prig and not kidd......

    if JR does not run back then increase shumps minutes....


    Melo needs to what Jaquim Noah did last night and thats get your team pumped and ready to give 110% on the court and he should wipe that stupid smile off his face and play hard.....

    with as many calls last night the Bulls and Heat did not get it was the bulls ( EXCEPT BOOZER ) WHO PLAYED ON AND ONLY COMPLAINED AFTER TIME OUTS.....once the REF makes his call its done play basketball.....its the samething we say to 8 year olds who play the game....

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    Originally Posted by CA7
    never mind dude, I dont even know why I try
    Exactly:"All the HATERS came, from far and wide"

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    Default Bernard King dumps on Melo

    Originally Posted by jimkcchief88
    Exactly:"All the HATERS came, from far and wide"
    Bernard King dumps on Melo .... .......Bernard King ‏@30BernardKing 43mThe Knicks MUST move the ball more and take the open shots - must stop heaving up bad shots because the shot clock is running out.......Bernard King ‏@30BernardKing 36mIf Carmelo's shoulder is hurting that bad - work the paint - drive and dish - become a facilitator - it's a TEAM game.......Bernard King ‏@30BernardKing 4mI was always taught - Take High Percentage shots - don't force it - don't be a one man show - don't over dribble - ball movement

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    Originally Posted by jimkcchief88
    I think it's too simple to blame Melo every time we lose. You know why Hibbert has the luxury of camping out under the basket and throwing a block party???? Because Hibbert's KNICK counterpart(Tyson Chandler) is a total-non factor on the offensive side of the ball. No one is talking about how badly Tyson played yesterday because its all on Melo. Which is why Melo takes the shots because he knows the media and the sheeplike fans who listen to the talking heads will blame him win or lose. Same mentality that Kobe had. You lose with the ball in the hands of your best player, not role players.

    Jim .... reading all ur post on this thread .. u lost ur concept of basketball, especially the part of NBA Playoffs.

    When Tyson Chandler is given a alleyoop or dunk do u watch the energy he brings after? NO!
    Tyson brings unearthly energy after he scores, so getting Tyson hyped-up in the first half is a 85% win.
    Or did u forget Tyson performance in the Linsanity era .. Tyson was unstoppable on the glass.

    u mention who is going to score without Melo? the Knicks Team will score with HOF Jason Kidd callin the shots, or did u forget who started our 13 game win streak when Melo & Tyson went out with injury from a Denver Nuggets AAA Whupppin.
    Our Knicks players been waiting all season to be apart of the offense, but Dolan gave this team to Carmelo Anthony.
    Do u actually think Felton pinky finger injury kept him out for 4 weeks? or was it Felton averaging 19 shots per game from the start of the season? When Felton came back from injury he average 6 shots per game for 5 weeks.

    u should b more interested in why Melo's ex-teammate Camby is not getting any burn???

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    Skisloper and fellow Melo haters(kiya,wv,drb...) We are going to have to agree to disagree, but let me give a couple of stats from Sunday's game to expose the blind "Melo-iso-Haterade". Prigioni: 0 points in 21 minutes. T Chandler: 4 points/ 3 REBOUNDS. Jason Kidd: 16 minutes, ZERO POINTS/ONE ASSIST, JR: 4/15 from the field in 33 minutes(Starks like performance at least he got to the line). Melo: 27 points/ 11 REBOUNDS. Tyson, Kmart, and JR had 11 BOARDS COMBINED. And you haters want to blame the team leader in points AND REBOUNDS for Sundays loss????? C'mon man. That's why CA7 tried to tell y'all you don't know what you are talking about. Melo-haters blind Haterade makes you blind to the FACTS. It ain't MELO's fault that outside of Feltip(who y'all didn't want in favor of Lin), the rest of the team pulled a NO-SHOW on Sunday. Pray the rest of the team shows up tonight to SUPPORT MELO instead of blindly blaming our team MVP who just won a scoring title. And I put that on CHIEF!!!!

  7. #52
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    Originally Posted by jimkcchief88
    Skisloper and fellow Melo haters(kiya,wv,drb...) We are going to have to agree to disagree, but let me give a couple of stats from Sunday's game to expose the blind "Melo-iso-Haterade". Prigioni: 0 points in 21 minutes. T Chandler: 4 points/ 3 REBOUNDS. Jason Kidd: 16 minutes, ZERO POINTS/ONE ASSIST, JR: 4/15 from the field in 33 minutes(Starks like performance at least he got to the line). Melo: 27 points/ 11 REBOUNDS. Tyson, Kmart, and JR had 11 BOARDS COMBINED. And you haters want to blame the team leader in points AND REBOUNDS for Sundays loss????? C'mon man. That's why CA7 tried to tell y'all you don't know what you are talking about. Melo-haters blind Haterade makes you blind to the FACTS. It ain't MELO's fault that outside of Feltip(who y'all didn't want in favor of Lin), the rest of the team pulled a NO-SHOW on Sunday. Pray the rest of the team shows up tonight to SUPPORT MELO instead of blindly blaming our team MVP who just won a scoring title. And I put that on CHIEF!!!!
    I hate the term "Melo Hater". Sure Melo had the most points and rebounds, but with 28 shots who wouldn't? I give him much credit on rebounding and even attempting to attack the basket, but he and the fans have all seen the success this team has when the ball is moving and quicker decisions are made.

    The points that Skisloper and Kiya made are absolutely valid. We NEED a good amount of Melo iso ball because he's just that talented, but not so much at the beginning of games or when the team has a good flow going on offense. We need to establish certain players and force the IND defense to be honest. As far as effort, everone gets an "F" on that. No matter how JR and Melo shoot, this team will not see success playing like they don't respect the TEAM on their chests.

    Melo is most definitely our team MVP, but your answer to everything can't be just to score the ball. If that's the case then he's just our scoring leader, not TEAM leader. I also think our PGs need to step up and show more of a leadership role in assisting other players. I also put blame on Woodson for not making things easier for Melo by having his shots come off screens and picks (more motion) rather than iso. IND thrives off situations like that because they defend and help so well, as seen in game 1. The PnR with Chandler and Martin was there numerous times last game but it wasn't being exploited nearly enough.

    Woodson has stated that he will stick with his smaller lineup because it makes no sense reacting off 1 game. I agree but he needs to make the quick adjustment when needed. This isn't baseball. He has free reign to alter his lineups at any point during the game, so hopefully he coaches to the temperature of the game. If rebounding is an issue tonight I expect Camby to get some minutes. If Kidd is still sleeping, I expect Prigs and Shump to get more minutes. If JR is still slumping, I expect Copeland to steal some minutes.

    Remember, this is playoff basketball! We're not in the regular season anymore. You don't get to play IND today and then face the Raptors tomorrow and the Bucks on Friday. In the reg season, we could lose to a team playing a certain way but then play the next game the same exact way and win. This time of year its all about adjustments since your are in a series with ONE team. I hate hearing comments like "it's worked all season" and "this is what got them here". Yes but now you face opponents that have nothing more to do other then gameplan for you. Its really a chess game. Let's see what moves/adjustments we make tonight.

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    Originally Posted by jimkcchief88
    Skisloper and fellow Melo haters(kiya,wv,drb...) We are going to have to agree to disagree, but let me give a couple of stats from Sunday's game to expose the blind "Melo-iso-Haterade". Prigioni: 0 points in 21 minutes. T Chandler: 4 points/ 3 REBOUNDS. Jason Kidd: 16 minutes, ZERO POINTS/ONE ASSIST, JR: 4/15 from the field in 33 minutes(Starks like performance at least he got to the line). Melo: 27 points/ 11 REBOUNDS. Tyson, Kmart, and JR had 11 BOARDS COMBINED. And you haters want to blame the team leader in points AND REBOUNDS for Sundays loss????? C'mon man. That's why CA7 tried to tell y'all you don't know what you are talking about. Melo-haters blind Haterade makes you blind to the FACTS. It ain't MELO's fault that outside of Feltip(who y'all didn't want in favor of Lin), the rest of the team pulled a NO-SHOW on Sunday. Pray the rest of the team shows up tonight to SUPPORT MELO instead of blindly blaming our team MVP who just won a scoring title. And I put that on CHIEF!!!!

    Is this the first time .. u seen Melo's teammates provide no effort in winning with Melo in the Playoffs?
    It have to be ur first.
    Wow! I thought u wouldve watch one of the 8 series Melo got swept in the first round.
    Melo shows no luv for his teammates, and his teammates show no luv to Melo when playoff arrive.
    example: last year did Melo make his teammates provide double-screens for Novak to get a open shot in the playoffs? NO! how come Jared Jefferies could talk Tyson & Fields to provide Novak with screens n picks lastseason to get Novak a $4M per contract for 4 years??

    I thought u knew .... how much money Denver offered Melo to stay in Denver? 2nd highest paid to Kobe.
    u dont know why Melo left Denver? do u see any Knicks teammates come to Melo rescue when opponents be roughing-up Melo? NO! the referee come to Melo rescue. Same thing happen in Denver once Billups arrived.
    My BAD I thought u knew about the guy u are always defending & justifying his performance...

  9. #54
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    Originally Posted by nyk_nyk
    I hate the term "Melo Hater". Sure Melo had the most points and rebounds, but with 28 shots who wouldn't? I give him much credit on rebounding and even attempting to attack the basket, but he and the fans have all seen the success this team has when the ball is moving and quicker decisions are made.

    The points that Skisloper and Kiya made are absolutely valid. We NEED a good amount of Melo iso ball because he's just that talented, but not so much at the beginning of games or when the team has a good flow going on offense. We need to establish certain players and force the IND defense to be honest. As far as effort, everone gets an "F" on that. No matter how JR and Melo shoot, this team will not see success playing like they don't respect the TEAM on their chests.

    Melo is most definitely our team MVP, but your answer to everything can't be just to score the ball. If that's the case then he's just our scoring leader, not TEAM leader. I also think our PGs need to step up and show more of a leadership role in assisting other players. I also put blame on Woodson for not making things easier for Melo by having his shots come off screens and picks (more motion) rather than iso. IND thrives off situations like that because they defend and help so well, as seen in game 1. The PnR with Chandler and Martin was there numerous times last game but it wasn't being exploited nearly enough.

    Woodson has stated that he will stick with his smaller lineup because it makes no sense reacting off 1 game. I agree but he needs to make the quick adjustment when needed. This isn't baseball. He has free reign to alter his lineups at any point during the game, so hopefully he coaches to the temperature of the game. If rebounding is an issue tonight I expect Camby to get some minutes. If Kidd is still sleeping, I expect Prigs and Shump to get more minutes. If JR is still slumping, I expect Copeland to steal some minutes.

    Remember, this is playoff basketball! We're not in the regular season anymore. You don't get to play IND today and then face the Raptors tomorrow and the Bucks on Friday. In the reg season, we could lose to a team playing a certain way but then play the next game the same exact way and win. This time of year its all about adjustments since your are in a series with ONE team. I hate hearing comments like "it's worked all season" and "this is what got them here". Yes but now you face opponents that have nothing more to do other then gameplan for you. Its really a chess game. Let's see what moves/adjustments we make tonight.
    Hey, I didn't coin the phrase " Melo-iso" like its some slur. Holla at ur boyz( Kiya,WV,thread starter...) Look at the box score again fom Sunday.....Melo led the team in REBOUNDS as well as points. Prig/J Kidd/TC should be ASHAMED....4 point and 5 Boards between the three????? And y'all have the nerve to blame MELO???? C'mon man....Melo is trying to put these bums on his back and carry the team and y'all hating. Are you KNICKS fans or what?????

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    Originally Posted by Kiyaman
    Is this the first time .. u seen Melo's teammates provide no effort in winning with Melo in the Playoffs?
    It have to be ur first.
    Wow! I thought u wouldve watch one of the 8 series Melo got swept in the first round.
    Melo shows no luv for his teammates, and his teammates show no luv to Melo when playoff arrive.
    example: last year did Melo make his teammates provide double-screens for Novak to get a open shot in the playoffs? NO! how come Jared Jefferies could talk Tyson & Fields to provide Novak with screens n picks lastseason to get Novak a $4M per contract for 4 years??

    I thought u knew .... how much money Denver offered Melo to stay in Denver? 2nd highest paid to Kobe.
    u dont know why Melo left Denver? do u see any Knicks teammates come to Melo rescue when opponents be roughing-up Melo? NO! the referee come to Melo rescue. Same thing happen in Denver once Billups arrived.
    My BAD I thought u knew about the guy u are always defending & justifying his performance...
    Get real Kiya YOUR Denver Nuggets got EMBARRESSED in the first round( like I told ya) and are home watching the second round like me and you. But I guess that's MELO's fault too right????

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    Originally Posted by jimkcchief88
    Hey, I didn't coin the phrase " Melo-iso" like its some slur. Holla at ur boyz( Kiya,WV,thread starter...) Look at the box score again fom Sunday.....Melo led the team in REBOUNDS as well as points. Prig/J Kidd/TC should be ASHAMED....4 point and 5 Boards between the three????? And y'all have the nerve to blame MELO???? C'mon man....Melo is trying to put these bums on his back and carry the team and y'all hating. Are you KNICKS fans or what?????
    Oh u think Hibbert, West, and Hanbro can out rebound Tyson, Martin, and Camby? wrong thinking!
    u need to tell Woodson Melo is not a 4 (PF) vs the Pacers.
    Melo is the one who demands to play the 4 ....

    if u are wondering why Tyson or Martin dont put a big body in front of Hibbert/West so Melo could slash for the dunk?
    Thats a teammate thang .. Haslem & Bosh does it for Lebron & Wade .. Ibaka & Perkins do it for Durant & Westbook.
    Perkins & BigBaby used to do it for KG.

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    iso melo has been pissinb me off...but Woodson is known for this...his offense in atlanta was called Iso-Joe

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    Originally Posted by Kiyaman
    Bernard King dumps on Melo .... .......Bernard King ‏@30BernardKing 43mThe Knicks MUST move the ball more and take the open shots - must stop heaving up bad shots because the shot clock is running out.......Bernard King ‏@30BernardKing 36mIf Carmelo's shoulder is hurting that bad - work the paint - drive and dish - become a facilitator - it's a TEAM game.......Bernard King ‏@30BernardKing 4mI was always taught - Take High Percentage shots - don't force it - don't be a one man show - don't over dribble - ball movement
    Mr King makes some great points...hard to disagree with.

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    Originally Posted by jimkcchief88
    Hey, I didn't coin the phrase " Melo-iso" like its some slur. Holla at ur boyz( Kiya,WV,thread starter...) Look at the box score again fom Sunday.....Melo led the team in REBOUNDS as well as points. Prig/J Kidd/TC should be ASHAMED....4 point and 5 Boards between the three????? And y'all have the nerve to blame MELO???? C'mon man....Melo is trying to put these bums on his back and carry the team and y'all hating. Are you KNICKS fans or what?????
    Sorry but shooting 35% is not carrying a team. Also, you clearly skimmed my post because i gave blame to alot of people.

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    Problem is the iso ball at the beginning of games kills the flow of the offense. This makes it difficult for ancillary players to get in to a rhythm. Melo after all these years still doesn't get this on a deep level.

    He has forced up some bad shots.

    He has at times foregone facilitating for teammates and tried to do it own his own. Hence the heinous amount of attempts and awful shooting he responsible for in multiple games in these playoffs.

    Melo is not consistently disciplined in his offensive approach.

    He needs to give up the ball and get his teammates some easy looks. He is more than capable of this.

    If we play like we did at the beginning of the season and at times throughout we can beat anybody. Woodson needs to drive this message home.

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