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Thread: Optimism: Should we or should we not have it?

  1. #16
    Quiet Storm New New York's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by metrocard
    Billups is damaged goods.

    Why do we have to continue this trend of washed up veterans?

    We need a damn answer at PG and C looks like a weak position for us right now with how Chandler preformed in 2013.
    The best backup and role players are former ALL stars in the league. They accept their role and they no what it takes to win, they are selfless and are not looking to do more than just win either their first or one more title.

    Billups would be an upgrade over what Kidd gave us this year.

    If we could get 19 solid minutes out him making the vet min than he would be perfect.

    Tyson has been our most consistent player the past 2 seasons and he had a bad playoff run but he's still a top 5 Center in this league. Not to mention his struggles on D were a result of that stupid Zone we ran and bad calls, when we went man to man in game 5 he held Hibbert down!

    Again not saying I would not welcome an upgrade at PG (or any position) but we did not underachieve this year because of PG play...in fact things went South when Ray got hurt in December. Kidd,Priggs and Felton all penetrated the lane but only Raymond was a threat to finish!

    Give me a backup PG of Raymond caliber along with Raymond and we're good!

    And Frankly unless we find a steal in the draft we are not going to get an upgrade at the point without parting with Shump and even then it may not happen! PGs are at a premium more now than ever so no way our 3 million exception nabs one so we gotta accept Raymond for better or worst and like I said we just gotta add a solid backup to remain steady at that position because being exceptional at the point is not an option!

  2. #17
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    Originally Posted by metrocard
    Felton is overrated and plays too many minutes. He isn't the answer at PG, not even the best fit for Melo. We need a future PG badly.
    Yes .. we need a starting PG .. who? mystery?
    Felton is a decent upgrade backup PG .. that starts do to a injury in the starting-lineup.

    Yes .. we need a veteran BIG to backup or start for Amare .. who?
    Yes .. we need a young-center to backup Tyson .. who?
    Yes .. we need a starting SG .. or we sign JR as our starting SG.

    JR elbow to Terry will delay contract talks .. so if we do sign JR? JR must start with Melo.

    Shump is our new combo-guard (6th-Man) next season.

    Prig & Copeland put in work to earn a 2 yr contract from Knicks or 1 yr with the next team.
    Kenyon Martin TUFFness belong on the Knicks next season.

    Kidd & Camby are our best frontcourt/backcourt coaches on the bench.

  3. #18
    Veteran petescud's Avatar
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    I'm not going to be optomistic till we shed some of these crazy contracts

  4. #19
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    Originally Posted by Kiyaman
    Yes .. we need a starting PG .. who? mystery?
    Felton is a decent upgrade backup PG .. that starts do to a injury in the starting-lineup.

    Yes .. we need a veteran BIG to backup or start for Amare .. who?
    Yes .. we need a young-center to backup Tyson .. who?
    Yes .. we need a starting SG .. or we sign JR as our starting SG.

    JR elbow to Terry will delay contract talks .. so if we do sign JR? JR must start with Melo.

    Shump is our new combo-guard (6th-Man) next season.

    Prig & Copeland put in work to earn a 2 yr contract from Knicks or 1 yr with the next team.
    Kenyon Martin TUFFness belong on the Knicks next season.

    Kidd & Camby are our best frontcourt/backcourt coaches on the bench.
    Have Shumpert as our starting SG. He's our future. Dude has emerged as one of the best young SG's that we know in the NBA.

    I think we need to replace Chandler. Age and his NBA mileage has come to a limit. If we don't unload him now, we will regret it in the future. It'll be a waste of contract and value.

  5. #20
    Veteran petescud's Avatar
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    I think we need to replace Chandler. Age and his NBA mileage has come to a limit. If we don't unload him now, we will regret it in the future. It'll be a waste of contract and value.

    I agree. He got more abused by Hibbert then Ewing did by Hakeem

  6. #21
    Quiet Storm New New York's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by metrocard
    Have Shumpert as our starting SG. He's our future. Dude has emerged as one of the best young SG's that we know in the NBA.

    I think we need to replace Chandler. Age and his NBA mileage has come to a limit. If we don't unload him now, we will regret it in the future. It'll be a waste of contract and value.
    If Tyson being wahed up truly is the case (a seriously debatable issue) Chandler has just 2 years left on his deal thus only truly burning us for 1 since the last year of his deal he'll have as much value for his contract as he does his game...again assuming you buy the notion he's washed up (I don't remotely)

    Plus the best way to devalue a player is to dangle them in the trade market, if the right deal came Along I'd listen but we are hardly at a point where we need to pursue deals for him

    OKC
    Miami
    SA
    Boston
    Philly
    Dallas

    Are just a few teams who would dramatically better with Tyson! Not to mention we would be dramatically worst without him


    Tyson's game can not be gauged but statistics; he's a leader he is why Dallas won in 2011 and why they have not won since he left

    Too much is made of what Hibbert did in the series. We had the players to gaurd Indy straight up but we went Zone! Hibbert grabed offensive boards because it is nearly impossible to box out effectively in a Zone

    In that 6 game series I got Hibbert truly outplaying Tyson on 9 total plays on offense and more than double that many when Tyson forces Hibbert to either miss or make a difficult shot when they were squared up 1 on 1

    Tyson is a keeper

  7. #22
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    your right, if he's gone what do you have to replace him with. Yes, the zone didn't help and i thought was to keep him out of foul trouble. If we had other defenders (aside from Shump) he'd look much better. He def needs to work on some offense though so he can get the other centers in foul trouble to balance his game

  8. #23
    Veteran Wargames's Avatar
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    What's all this talk about a starting PG? I watched a ton of games and the real reason the knicks lost is the pacers had the mismatch of youth and size on them.

    Knicks need to get bigger and maybe figure out if Amare is going to start (when healthy) at the 4 or not. The Knicks need rebounding help and swing men who play defense, and yeah a backup PG would be good.... But do the Knicks have the patience to train one from scratch? Hell can they even train one from scratch?

    Anyhow getting a pg in this draft makes about much sense as getting Hill a few years ago in a draft heavy in good to great PG prospects..... This is a center heavy draft if the Knicks FO come out of it without a decent big prospect there idiots.

  9. #24
    Huge Member smokes's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Wargames
    What's all this talk about a starting PG? I watched a ton of games and the real reason the knicks lost is the pacers had the mismatch of youth and size on them.

    Knicks need to get bigger and maybe figure out if Amare is going to start (when healthy) at the 4 or not. The Knicks need rebounding help and swing men who play defense, and yeah a backup PG would be good.... But do the Knicks have the patience to train one from scratch? Hell can they even train one from scratch?

    Anyhow getting a pg in this draft makes about much sense as getting Hill a few years ago in a draft heavy in good to great PG prospects..... This is a center heavy draft if the Knicks FO come out of it without a decent big prospect there idiots.
    Actually a PG makes a lot of sense. Problem is with only 1 pick and also a drastic need for a young big man to develop the Knicks are hamstrung.

    As many people have stated, Felton is a good PG but he doesn't mesh with Melo at all. Felton is one of the quickest PG's in the NBA his game is suited to running and transition basketball (see Felton 2010). Felton's game is not at all suited to slow half court basketball and it diminishes his skillset greatly.

    Knicks need a Rondo type PG who can be great in the half court setting or at least a PG with deadly 3 point range. If we start Shumpert at SG (yes please) we will need someone with a bit more reliable shooting stroke to share the back court with him.

    As far as optimism goes as said before it really depends what your goals are. Should we be optimistic the Knicks can win a chip with this group? No. It's pretty much a lock that won't happen unless by some miracle Melo adjusts his game into being a more complete player on both ends and/or STAT comes back strong, neither of which are likely scenarios. We can at least be optimistic the Knicks will compete in the East for the next couple of years.

    The main thing I'd be optimistic about is the hope we can maintain/add to our young core so that two years down the line when we can shed these horrible contracts we will be in a position to truly build a competitor.

  10. #25
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    Originally Posted by Wargames
    What's all this talk about a starting PG? I watched a ton of games and the real reason the knicks lost is the pacers had the mismatch of youth and size on them.

    Knicks need to get bigger and maybe figure out if Amare is going to start (when healthy) at the 4 or not. The Knicks need rebounding help and swing men who play defense, and yeah a backup PG would be good.... But do the Knicks have the patience to train one from scratch? Hell can they even train one from scratch?

    Anyhow getting a pg in this draft makes about much sense as getting Hill a few years ago in a draft heavy in good to great PG prospects..... This is a center heavy draft if the Knicks FO come out of it without a decent big prospect there idiots.
    The patience? For what? What the hell are you talking about?

    We just get a damn young PG just because we need it for now and the future. Theres no patience in it.

    Do you want to stay an old ass fragile team?
    Your way of thinking is lethargic.
    Theres no change.
    We have a weak guard rotation.
    Melo, Martin, Stoudimire Chandler aren't going anywhere and they are holding down the front court in major minutes.
    What good is drafting a big man going to do? The big men in this draft are overrated, theres only 2-3 worthy big men...the rest are being ballooned on hype and their college programs. Theres 3 PG's in this draft worth looking at...Burke, Schroeder and Larkin. Do you research on them and understand how a PG can totally transform this team.

    Having the ball in Felton's indecisive ways, Smith's chuck coke sniffing hungover fashion and Melo's freestyle thanks to Woodson is unhealthy for the offense.

    We need a new coach and a new PG.

    SG - Shumpert is GREAT
    SF - Anthony is EXCELLENT, top 3 SF
    PF - Martin - A level defender, Stoudimire A level offensive player...wish we could combine the two
    C - Chandler - former defensive player of the year, but had a terrible season in 13...will he make a comeback? either way, it'll be hard to move his contract so he stays at C.

    Schroeder, Larkin or Burke will easily take Feltons spot, especially since a rookie like Prigioni was growing into the starting PG role for the Knicks coming off a reserve role (where most of us expected him to play less than 10 mins a game).

    Let's upgrade...stop being a lethargic franchise.

    If Felton was so great, Bobcats, Blazers and Nuggets would of stuck with him and let other teams draft Walker, Lillard and Lawson.
    Ask Charlotte, Portland and Denver if they'll trade Walker, Lilliard or Lawson/Miller for Felton.

    Felton holds little value...I don't know why fools worship this dude as a "New York tough" "right fit" PG. That's all media non-sense...theres nothing New York about Felton's game.

  11. #26
    Huge Member smokes's Avatar
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    I agree with metro. Knicks are stagnant and scared when it comes to the draft. Always picking the safe options.

    What worries me most is the performance of the Knicks in the regular season could easily lead us to believe things are all fine and good just like this year. Number 2 seed, some great winstreaks, wins over some of the best teams in the league even away from home. As we saw the number 2 seed did nothing for us this year. The Knicks need to find some kind of spark in the backcourt.

    Knicks should forget about JR Smith. He's forever going to be one of those players that never lives up to his potential. A couple of lucky game winners shouldn't have fans forgetting about the 1-10 he went for prior in the same game, but it usually does. Shed his salary and use it to pick up a solid big who can contribute 25 minutes per game of defense. We have Shump who health allowing should be giving us 35 minutes per game.

    Go for a home run in the draft with a PG and relegate Felton to the 6th man role. Keep him seperate from Melo as often as possible. Let Felton and STAT combine off the bench for 20 minutes a night of pick and roll and transition offense with Shumpert, Kenyon and Copeland.

    ???
    Shumpert
    Melo
    ???
    Chandler

    Felton
    Shumpert
    Copeland
    KMart
    STAT

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