What do the Knicks do with the backup center position?

tiger0330

Legend
Two other names I have heard in the mix for our backup center position are Hassan Whiteside and Jason Collins along with Hadaddi and Barron. What should the Knicks do? Stand pat or sign one of these 4 players. Rebounding has been a weakness and we could use a big that can provide that for the second unit.

Collins despite his long career in the NBA is not a strong rebounder.

Barron is a journeyman with low offensive efficiency but a decent rebounder.

Whiteside is young and a 7 footer, has 12.6 RPG per 36 though in limited playing time

Haddadi to my surprise had way better production than Collins and averaged 12.7 RPG per 36. Not sure what the problem is with him but he has bounced around a lot for a guy whose per 36 numbers look decent along with his size.
 

Kiyaman

Legend
I thought 7.0 Bargani was going to be our backup center .... then again
I thought Camby was going to be our backup center, till HC Woody put Camby in the starting lineup with Tyson :smokin:
I guess Woody is going to have both 7 footers Tyson & Bargani start this season.
 

tiger0330

Legend
Woody knows he can't play Bargnani at C and expect that the team is going to improve their rebounding. 7 footer that's averaged less that 5 rpg in his career, rebounding is one of his weaknesses that you have to cover for him.
 

Kiyaman

Legend
Woody knows he can't play Bargnani at C and expect that the team is going to improve their rebounding. 7 footer that's averaged less that 5 rpg in his career, rebounding is one of his weaknesses that you have to cover for him.

We dont know if Bargani can perform as a PF?
What if Bargani cant perform well at PF?
The big question is what type of PF are HC Woodson looking for?
I never like coinsidence like PF-Amare, PF-Rasheed, and PF-K.Thomas all being injured throughout the season so Melo could average 40 minutes per game at the PF spot.

Amare is still one of the Top-3 PF in the NBA, injury-prone included.
I'm a Knicks fan that knows that the Knicks medical-staff would not have put Amare down with multiple injuries if we didnt have Ball-Hogger ISO-Melo on the team the past 2 seasons.

Recall in 1995-96 when we had PF-Anthony Mason start all 82 games as SF, plus taking PF-Oakley minutes too so we could run a 3 guard offense (Harper/Starks/Hubert) by HC Pat Riley, then next season HC Nelson, while our medical staff had PF-Charles Smith on the injury-list for half the season. Then HC Nelson was FIRED, and a week or two later Anthony Mason was traded for no-reason for a injured Larry Johnson who never played untill Oakley was traded in the 1998 offseason.
Leaving the Knicks medical-staff forever in question with me
 

knicksince 93

Rotation player
Haha this dude can't be serious. So now the training staff if in on iso melo and they tell amare he's injured when he isn't. Haha, it's his body if we wasn't hurt he would be the one to know and wouldn't accept that. I guess they hypnotized him into thinking he was hurt. Kiya you live around ny I believe so if I'm wrong my bad but anyway you're probably a yankees fan to, like myself. And did u not see how they were trying to make it seem like arod was hurt when he wasn't and the whole story was out. Well then if this complete asinine story had some plausibility to it then it would have been leaked already. And what happened with arod they are forced to play him because he's owed all that money whether they want to or not. Why would amare accept a minute restriction if we knew he was healthy. The man has pride come on wwe kiya. Top 3pf still, smh. I wish but he's not that anymore and I'm ok with that. As long as he is there. He represents what being a knick is all about.

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk 2
 

ronoranina

Fundamentally Sound
Bargnani is a stretch four. His acquisition should put Melo back at his natural position, at the 3.

I'd like to see us start two 7 footers. I'd also like to see what Bargs can do with his length in combination with Chandler for us on the defensive end in Woodson's system.

I think we should get Barron. The more 7 footers the better. He can rebound also. I always liked him actually.
 

Starks

Starter
Bargs hasn't touched the paint in three seasons. You would think a 7 footer with long arms like that would be a natural at Center, but there's no way it would work. I'm not sure who else is available, but what do you guys think of Jason Collins? He's been looking for a gig for awhile so I'm sure we could get him for the vet min. Ironically, he could be a good locker room presence
 

Kiyaman

Legend
Haha this dude can't be serious. So now the training staff if in on iso melo and they tell amare he's injured when he isn't. Haha, it's his body if we wasn't hurt he would be the one to know and wouldn't accept that. I guess they hypnotized him into thinking he was hurt. Kiya you live around ny I believe so if I'm wrong my bad but anyway you're probably a yankees fan to, like myself. And did u not see how they were trying to make it seem like arod was hurt when he wasn't and the whole story was out. Well then if this complete asinine story had some plausibility to it then it would have been leaked already. And what happened with arod they are forced to play him because he's owed all that money whether they want to or not. Why would amare accept a minute restriction if we knew he was healthy. The man has pride come on wwe kiya. Top 3pf still, smh. I wish but he's not that anymore and I'm ok with that. As long as he is there. He represents what being a knick is all about.

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk 2


Good observation on the Yankees ....

Im as serious as the Firing of GM Grunfield in 99, when a 11 seeded Knicks team went on a (month and a half) winning-streak run to become a 8th seeded playoff team at the end of the season .. especially when this same 11 seed to 8th seed team went all the way to the FINALS.

GM Grunfield was a 100% right, and shouldve been rehired with a raise a couple of days before draft night, so we couldve drafted St Johns star player Meta World Peace LOL
 

Kiyaman

Legend
Bargs hasn't touched the paint in three seasons. You would think a 7 footer with long arms like that would be a natural at Center, but there's no way it would work. I'm not sure who else is available, but what do you guys think of Jason Collins? He's been looking for a gig for awhile so I'm sure we could get him for the vet min. Ironically, he could be a good locker room presence


Jason Collins & Kenyon Martin hooking backup would be a great fit in a lineup with SF-Melo, SG-JR, and PG-Felton isolation plays.
 

Fat Elvis

Benchwarmer
Bargs is a SF in a center's body. Split the difference, and his most natural position is PF, though he's strictly a finesse guy. I like him in the starting lineup, where he can guard PF's, but still stretch the floor for 'Melo to post up inside on offense (and occasionally post up himself).

Against most teams, Amar'e or Kenyon can man the PF/C positions off the bench, but for bigger teams, we need a legitimate 7-foot banger or we're exposed (as the Pacers series proved last year). That's why they picked up Jeremy Tyler, but I think they need one more guy as insurance, as most of our bigs are older/injury prone. Someone who can rebound and preferrably block a few shots, which I think is one of our biggest weaknesses right now. Hopefully Tyson's shot-blocking will return to levels of two seasons ago, as last year he was pretty mediocre.

The only other position they might want to fill with the 15th roster spot is SF, but I'd prefer they start 'Melo at the SF, have Artest be the key SF off the bench, and play JR/Hardaway Jr/Leslie there if there are injuries. A big center is key
 

metrocard

Legend
Bargnani is a stretch four. His acquisition should put Melo back at his natural position, at the 3.

I'd like to see us start two 7 footers. I'd also like to see what Bargs can do with his length in combination with Chandler for us on the defensive end in Woodson's system.

I think we should get Barron. The more 7 footers the better. He can rebound also. I always liked him actually.

Haven't you been watching the NBA the last 7 years?

Bargnani is a bad defender, he's average at post defense, but that was recently.

He gets destroyed on the pick and roll.
He doesn't box out.
He doesn't defend the interior
He doesn't block shots or help defense.
He's not an intangibles or hustle player.

If length was an advantage, Tim Thomas and Keith Van Horn would've been fantastic defenders for the Knicks.

Being 7 foot doesn't make you good.
Barron averages .5 blocks per 36 minutes. He's a 7 foot guy who's 32 years old...he rebounds at a 9 RPG game rate...it's okay, Haddadi would be a superior option.
 

metrocard

Legend
We should've tried to snag Fab Melo. He's a 7 footer that blocks shots which is what we need to backup Chandler.

This is actually a great idea, looking pass aside Fab Melo's low basketball awareness. He's actually a rebounder and shot blocker. His frame and body is huge, not a skinny crackhead type 7 footer like Chandler and Barron. He's only 23 also. I believe Boston gave up on him too early.
 

knicksman20

Benchwarmer
This is actually a great idea, looking pass aside Fab Melo's low basketball awareness. He's actually a rebounder and shot blocker. His frame and body is huge, not a skinny crackhead type 7 footer like Chandler and Barron. He's only 23 also. I believe Boston gave up on him too early.

I know! I read yesterday he got an invite to the Mavs training camp. The Knicks should've at least looked at him. We wouldn't need him to score. We need a legitimate backup to Chandler who can hold it down defensively without giving up size.
 

tiger0330

Legend
This is actually a great idea, looking pass aside Fab Melo's low basketball awareness. He's actually a rebounder and shot blocker. His frame and body is huge, not a skinny crackhead type 7 footer like Chandler and Barron. He's only 23 also. I believe Boston gave up on him too early.
Boston gave up on him too soon, Memphis cut him in 2 weeks. Let's see if he makes that Mavs roster, they really don't have a backup center so if he can't make the Mavs he probably won't make any NBA roster.
 

ronoranina

Fundamentally Sound
Haven't you been watching the NBA the last 7 years?

Bargnani is a bad defender, he's average at post defense, but that was recently.

He gets destroyed on the pick and roll.
He doesn't box out.
He doesn't defend the interior
He doesn't block shots or help defense.
He's not an intangibles or hustle player.


If length was an advantage, Tim Thomas and Keith Van Horn would've been fantastic defenders for the Knicks.

Being 7 foot doesn't make you good.
Barron averages .5 blocks per 36 minutes. He's a 7 foot guy who's 32 years old...he rebounds at a 9 RPG game rate...it's okay, Haddadi would be a superior option.

I agree with all of the bolded, however him being in Woodson's system will more than likely have some impact on his game defensively. I'm eager to see what this will be. That's all I was saying.

I didn't say being seven foot makes you good. I do think having two seven footers on the court at the same time can impact the other team's offense. Bargnani does have to do his part and play smart, pick up his rotations and use his length effectively in combo with Chandler for this to be the reality on court however. Bargs working with Woodson and Chandler for that matter makes this a possibility.
 

Kiyaman

Legend
We should've tried to snag Fab Melo. He's a 7 footer that blocks shots which is what we need to backup Chandler.


I can see the Mavs HC Rick Carlyle keeping Fab Melo for the season like he did Ben Wallace in Detroit.
Having a veteran player/coach in Marion & Dirk to keep a young Fab Melo in position could be the start of Fab's career in the NBA.

We couldve worked wonders in our bigman rotation this season having (two young bigmen) Fab & Tyler being tutored by Tyson, K.Mart, and Meta for screening, defense, and rebounding purpose.
 

Kiyaman

Legend
I agree with all of the bolded, however him being in Woodson's system will more than likely have some impact on his game defensively. I'm eager to see what this will be. That's all I was saying.

I didn't say being seven foot makes you good. I do think having two seven footers on the court at the same time can impact the other team's offense. Bargnani does have to do his part and play smart, pick up his rotations and use his length effectively in combo with Chandler for this to be the reality on court however. Bargs working with Woodson and Chandler for that matter makes this a possibility.


u make a good point with the twin-tower 7 footers, but Woodson system is questionable when it comes to putting two bigmen in a lineup (the Pacers series). Plus all our oponents with young PG will be told to run a fast tempo offense on Melo/Barg/Tyson, knowing they will beat us down court 2 times out of 3.
 

nixon7

Benchwarmer
Amar'e is more likely to see some minutes at center than Bargnani, who will be used as a stretch 4 to clear the lane for Melo and Chandler. The rumor that Grunwald thought he was trading for Farmville's Yarn Barn rather than for Bargnani is untrue.

Tyler is an X-factor, who could turn out to be our best answer at backup center, or could be a project who never gets floor time this year. I would rather see KMart used more at PF and even SF than at center, except possibly against smaller teams.

Haddadi is the best backup center in the half-court but does not get back well in transition. He makes the most sense as an emergency option in the playoffs against Indiana and Chicago.

Barron is more generally usable during the regular season for longer minutes, against running teams, and during the playoffs against Miami and Brooklyn.

That said, I do like Murry. However, I see more scenarios where we regret not signing a big with the #15 spot than using it for Murry, especially if we want to develop Hardaway.
 

metrocard

Legend
I don't see the Knicks doing anything this season without a shot blocker. PG's are leveling up, especially the young ones and lottery teams are improving and will be bigger challenges to this team.

The lack of footspeed within Amare, Bargnani and their vulnerability on defense makes us desperate for a big man.

Our best defenders are World Peace and Martin, considering they're at the end of their careers...this isn't a strong bet that they'll play 82 games within the season.

Same goes for Tyson Chandler, who isn't a good shot blocker and his interior and post defense has dropped by 2-3 levels.

I hate the Bargnani trade altogether, seems very Isiah Thomasish. Focusing on talent instead of team necessities is a recipe for disaster.

I can't stress this enough how this current roster is built for a treadmill run in the playoffs into an early exit. This isn't pessimism either, if you take time to sit down and analyze this roster in comparison with the top 5 teams in the NBA, you'll begin to see how the 2013-14 season will be a waste of time.


I honestly rather rebuild and acquire two lottery draft picks to draft some Superstars for our future than waste a season for nothing.
 
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