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Thread: Woodson: Knicks must improve on defense

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    Veteran bigapple's Avatar
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    Default Woodson: Knicks must improve on defense

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    Shump as starter

    less time for Felton and JR
    MWP as also starter
    same for Beno


    and D will be better


    if Indy and Heat can do that Knicks should do the same but they NEED do that with brain not to let anyone to driving into the paint

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    I agree with you.

    Prigioni 26 minutes per game
    Shumpert should get 32
    MWP should get 26 minutes per game.
    Kenyon Martin should get 24

    Those are our 4 best defenders.

    They shouldn't get less or our defense will be exposed dearly. We don't have the roster to be a strong defensive team.

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    Originally Posted by metrocard
    I agree with you.

    Prigioni 26 minutes per game
    Shumpert should get 32
    MWP should get 26 minutes per game.
    Kenyon Martin should get 24

    Those are our 4 best defenders.

    They shouldn't get less or our defense will be exposed dearly. We don't have the roster to be a strong defensive team.

    Did someone mention Defense .. lastseason taught me u could have some great defensive-players on your roster and become a poor defensive-team when u give 40 minutes to ISO-Melo, 33 minutes to JRsmith, and 30 minutes to Felton .. this trio of 30+ minute players are the only players that touch the ball on the offensive-end of the court.
    Will this season be any different?

    My best 6 man lineup:
    C-Amare
    PF-K-Mart
    SF-Meta
    SG-Hardaway
    PG-Beno
    6th-Man Shump
    This defense/offense lineup will never happen with HC Woody getting all his instruction from ISO-Melo.
    Lastseason I waited 82 games to see HC Woody put a lineup of Camby/Amare/Copeland/Shump/Pablo on the court as a 2nd unit, which never happen.
    If u can recall, the trio Camby/Amare/and Shump came off of injury to start the season in the same month January. Why would u put Camby & Shump in the starter lineup and not our $100M player Amare? Chaotic right?

    The Knicks could have the best DEFENSIVE lineup in the Eastern Conference with:
    C-Chandler
    PF-K-Mart
    SF-Meta
    SG-Shump
    PG-Pablo
    This lineup could give us STOPS after STOPS, strong offensive & defensive rebounding, what they cant do is score on isolation plays. And HC Woody's 48 minute system is scoring off of isolation plays (aka individual scoring)...

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    Veteran bigapple's Avatar
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    S5 for me without Chandler and Pablo. 36 year "young" cant be starter. But he is like gary payton

    + some1 have to score so MELO is must be in S5

    i still wana look @ Banana

    and for sure i am counting on MWP

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    The Knicks could have the best DEFENSIVE lineup in the Eastern Conference with:
    C-Chandler
    PF-K-Mart
    SF-Meta
    SG-Shump
    PG-Pablo


    This line up better make stops. They'd be lucky to put up 75 pts a night

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    Originally Posted by petescud
    The Knicks could have the best DEFENSIVE lineup in the Eastern Conference with:
    C-Chandler
    PF-K-Mart
    SF-Meta
    SG-Shump
    PG-Pablo


    This line up better make stops. They'd be lucky to put up 75 pts a night

    I was taught by the best, u use ur best defensive-lineup in the 2nd half of the game, a philosophy of HC Red Holzman, and Pat Riley with Anthony Mason .. this philosophy had Knicks oponents go 5 to 7 minutes without scoring a fg, that's how both HC made it to the Eastern Conference Finals.
    The more playingtime minutes the HC gave to the defensive-lineup the better they gelled or had confidence on the offensive-end of the court. The Detroit Bad-Boys won consecutive championships with this philosophy, and Boston HC Doc & Thibs won the 2007-8 Championship playing their defensive players in the 2nd half of the game.

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    Originally Posted by bigapple
    S5 for me without Chandler and Pablo. 36 year "young" cant be starter. But he is like gary payton

    + some1 have to score so MELO is must be in S5

    i still wana look @ Banana

    and for sure i am counting on MWP

    When the 2013 draft night was over the Brooklyn Nets advance to become the top winning team in the Atlantic Division for the 2013-14 season (another illegal crooked trade went down)

    How will we defend Brooklyn Nets several differ lineups?

    C-Lopez
    PF-Evans
    SF-JJ
    SG-Terry
    PG-Deron

    2nd-unit of:

    C-Blantche
    PF-KG
    SF-AK47
    SG-Pierce
    PG-Taylor

    I dont see any of the league top-contender teams getting the best of the Nets in a regular-season series, the Nets have to much veteran experience on the court & bench.
    And dont anyone sleep on the Nets 6.10 rookie Mason Plumlee (the bigman pick I wanted Knicks to draft), the tutorship Plumlee will receive from the Nets veteran bigmen are priceless.

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    some of you are missing the point completely

    Individual skills do not matter when a team buys into a coach's defensive approach. Of course it makes a big difference when you have the talent to fit the approach but plenty of team's have defended well collectively when they had individuals who do/did not defend well.

    Think about The Bulls who have been the standard for D the past 3 or 4 years. Deng,Noah and Butler stand out as defenders but the rest of the team does it by committee. Tibbs demands and it and they go after it on D...and a lot of it is Zone not man to man further supporting my argument that it not simply about good individual defenders....side note I hate zone Defense

    So no we do not need Pablo playing 26 mins+ to help ensure that our D is solid. First off he probably could not handle it at his age and secondly there is a big difference between a guy who plays the passing lanes well and a good one on one defender so simply playing him (or any other player more) would not equate to better D

    So I do not think a unit with our best 5 defensive players is necessary nor wise. In fact the best approach would be to keep at least 2 of them on the floor at all times. So Shump and TC in starting 5 and Pablo Metta and Kmart off the bench. This gives us both balance on both sides of the floor and balance between the 2 units.

    So yeah we have a chance to be a top 5 defensive team if Woody holds the guys accountable like he did with turnovers last year!

    Lastly JR and Melo are better defenders than they get credit for...do not get me wrong they leave much to be desired but still can defend when they are focused. So again its about Woody demanding more of them and everyone else

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    Originally Posted by New New York
    some of you are missing the point completely

    Individual skills do not matter when a team buys into a coach's defensive approach. Of course it makes a big difference when you have the talent to fit the approach but plenty of team's have defended well collectively when they had individuals who do/did not defend well.

    Think about The Bulls who have been the standard for D the past 3 or 4 years. Deng,Noah and Butler stand out as defenders but the rest of the team does it by committee. Tibbs demands and it and they go after it on D...and a lot of it is Zone not man to man further supporting my argument that it not simply about good individual defenders....side note I hate zone Defense

    So no we do not need Pablo playing 26 mins+ to help ensure that our D is solid. First off he probably could not handle it at his age and secondly there is a big difference between a guy who plays the passing lanes well and a good one on one defender so simply playing him (or any other player more) would not equate to better D

    So I do not think a unit with our best 5 defensive players is necessary nor wise. In fact the best approach would be to keep at least 2 of them on the floor at all times. So Shump and TC in starting 5 and Pablo Metta and Kmart off the bench. This gives us both balance on both sides of the floor and balance between the 2 units.

    So yeah we have a chance to be a top 5 defensive team if Woody holds the guys accountable like he did with turnovers last year!

    Lastly JR and Melo are better defenders than they get credit for...do not get me wrong they leave much to be desired but still can defend when they are focused. So again its about Woody demanding more of them and everyone else

    1) I dont think Woody have the know-how to coach an all defensive-lineup, especially when he ran an isolation offense-system throughout a season, and during the summer league games.

    2) Shump should be our 6th Man off the bench to tandem with PG-Beno to run some transition offense during the first half of the game.

    3) JR.smith belong in the starting lineup with Tyson, K.Mart, Melo, and Felton. JR does not improve the bench-players that come off the bench with him by shooting 3-11 in the first half of the majority of his game (JR has a career at that). As for JR & Melo defense as a tandem in a lineup it has not improve since their first season in Denver together. If we wouldve let JR & Melo start a few games lastseason we wouldve had clarity of resigning him this season.

    4) Bargani is not a starter on any team in the NBA. It does not matter how much Toronto thought he was worth. Bargani performance has never match his contract, letting Bargani come off the bench to tandem with Meta may improve his performance.

    5) Rookie Hardaway Jr. may suprise us all with his SG scoring ability off the bench, and staying in front of his oponent as a defender.

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    JR have skills but i dont think he realize himself how good is he
    Shump few times stolen ball from not only but Dwade but this will be his just 3rd year in this league

    dont Discount Bargniani no one wants to play for years in loosing teams

    K-Mart is exellent defender but he is like D12 too much fouls in short time and will end @ bench for 3 quarters.


    Personaly i dont wana 30pts each game by MELO i dont wana that MELO is doin everything
    what bout team work each player 2 do own job look @ GSW no Curry no problem but they r still young



    Matter of fact this season can be final year for Chanlder and SHOULD b for STAT
    Last edited by bigapple; Oct 06, 2013 at 15:35.

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    Originally Posted by New New York
    some of you are missing the point completely

    Individual skills do not matter when a team buys into a coach's defensive approach. Of course it makes a big difference when you have the talent to fit the approach but plenty of team's have defended well collectively when they had individuals who do/did not defend well.

    Think about The Bulls who have been the standard for D the past 3 or 4 years. Deng,Noah and Butler stand out as defenders but the rest of the team does it by committee. Tibbs demands and it and they go after it on D...and a lot of it is Zone not man to man further supporting my argument that it not simply about good individual defenders....side note I hate zone Defense
    So again its about Woody demanding more of them and everyone else

    ur example of the Bulls are valid for team-defense, but not valid for the ISO-Melo Knicks.
    The Bulls HC Thib has let Noah & Deng call all the shots on defense & offense (with a missin Rose), those two players are always communicating with their teammates on position while the ball is in play. Having a 3rd player Butler or Ronnie Brewer get into the same act by knowing their defensive-position leads to team-defense, especially when defense are these players strongest attribute.

    The Knicks let ISO-Melo and his ex-Nuggets teammate JR.Smith call all the shots on the court.
    The Knicks team leader Melo and partner JR, has never had any communication skills on the defensive-end of the court with their teammates.
    When Pablo or Shump stole a ball they were not allowed to run the ball to start a fastbreak, they would have to walk the ball or give the ball to a walking Melo, or JR, or Felton, bc no Knicks teammate on the perimeter were going to run on a fastbreak (Melo & JR were always on the perimeter on defense). If Butler or Brewer stole the ball Noah, Gibson, and Deng would be setting records for the 100 yard dash for a fastbreak highlight.
    Karma .... Recall in the Boston series when JR stole the ball from Terry to be force to run down court with the ball having Terry all over him, then JR stop his dribble hoping a Knicks teammate ran with him to pass it to, and Terry reaching and covering JR so well that JR elbowed Terry in the mouth to get suspended, when JR couldve called a time-out when he seen all his teammates on the defensive-end walking.

    In 2011-12 we watch strong defensive comunication from Tyson, Jefferies, and Fields take us on winning streak.
    In 2012-13 we watch strong defensive comunication from Kidd, K.Martin, and Pablo take us on a run to win 16 games out of our final 18 games.
    This is when I say, "some of u r missing the point completely" by thinking offensive-scoring won our final 16 games of the season...

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    if our priority is defense then we should not put jr as a starter

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    JR Smith is a 6th man. He can turn games around. He can turn games in our favor with his offense but can do serious damage with his defense and when he begins to force shots thats when things get ugly. Shump has to start for me.

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    Originally Posted by Meloball
    if our priority is defense then we should not put jr as a starter
    That is the reason why JR should be a starter .. teams rarely play defense in the first quarter, especially us we cant afford to get certain players into early foul trouble.

    JR career is known as an inconsistent-player .. JR & Felton in the backcourt as starters vs oponents starters give u a idea of how much playingtime JR deserve in that game .. the more playingtime u give JR the less effort he shows on defense.
    JR is a perimeter shooter that belongs in an offensive-lineup, which makes him a spot-player.
    Not a 6th-man that get bench-players involve on offense/defense.

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    Originally Posted by Kiyaman
    That is the reason why JR should be a starter .. teams rarely play defense in the first quarter, especially us we cant afford to get certain players into early foul trouble.

    JR career is known as an inconsistent-player .. JR & Felton in the backcourt as starters vs oponents starters give u a idea of how much playingtime JR deserve in that game .. the more playingtime u give JR the less effort he shows on defense.
    JR is a perimeter shooter that belongs in an offensive-lineup, which makes him a spot-player.
    Not a 6th-man that get bench-players involve on offense/defense.
    Naaahhh J.R. is a hired gun, especially the way this team is setup now I'd prefer he not start. I want Shumpert or JR to develop properly instead of turning them into ESCAPEGOATS or pawns to be traded.

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