What do you think of Bargnani?

tiger0330

Legend
Mike Breen asked Clyde a couple times during games "What did he think of Bargnani". Clyde said he was sporadic. Sporadic he was in the preseason, not the shooter his rep said he was, terrible from 3 pt range and a so so jump shot and no post game to speak of. Best part of his game was putting it on the floor and drawing fouls, he is a terrific FT shooter. Terrible rebounder and will never get better, has no explosion going up for the ball and even an explosive wing is going to beat him to a rebound even though he's 7 ft. He did use his size to block some shots and that's the best part of his defense.

We got a good look at him in the preseason and his play to me is more fitted to an off the bench role player than the starting PF. I would rather start Melo at the 4 and MWP rather than having Bargs start. Bargs as a starter? other lineups?
 

petescud

Starter
Yeah, no doubt. Bargs will come off the bench if we want to win games. Metta and Amar'e are better options
 

Broadway

All Star
Yeah, no doubt. Bargs will come off the bench if we want to win games. Metta and Amar'e are better options


Hate to break news to all here but Amar'e and K-Mart will be on a 10min max game limit alternating games, if we play so many in such nights. I mean that's how sad things are at this point and explains why Aldrich made the team.

We're not going to have a good season. We're too thin in our front court, we do not have a tough team, our back court is going to get ate alive as the league clearly has gotten better all the way across at the guard positions. Unless we totally change our style of play we're going to be discussing roster overhaul more and more.
 

metrocard

Legend
What is he good at? Average shooter. Everything else is below average. He'll be out of the NBA in 3-4 seasons.
 

petescud

Starter
I figured Amar'e was on a 15-20 min mandate....and yes, no back to backs....and yes, the way the team is now, we're gone in the first or second round
 
in truth the only team we won't compete well against is the Pacers because they truly are one of the last teams in the NBA that boast a legitimate front court. with that being said we almost beat them last year if we didn't forget how to make open jump shots the heat won the championship last year with bosh as their pf avg 6.6 Reb a game and no center. the spurs starting center of splitter made it to finals avg less rebounds than that with Duncan as their only low post presence. point is the league is different. I think we will fare well with melo bargs amare metta and k mart shifting at the pf with chandler at center. that's honestly better than alot of winning teams it you map it all out on paper.


people seemingly forget that we didn't lose to the Pacers last year because of our front court. we lost because we couldn't make 20+ some what wide open jump shots every single game after going up 3-0 on the Celts. we shot approximately 30% from the field.




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Broadway

All Star
in truth the only team we won't compete well against is the Pacers because they truly are one of the last teams in the NBA that boast a legitimate front court. with that being said we almost beat them last year if we didn't forget how to make open jump shots the heat won the championship last year with bosh as their pf avg 6.6 Reb a game and no center. the spurs starting center of splitter made it to finals avg less rebounds than that with Duncan as their only low post presence. point is the league is different. I think we will fare well with melo bargs amare metta and k mart shifting at the pf with chandler at center. that's honestly better than alot of winning teams it you map it all out on paper.


people seemingly forget that we didn't lose to the Pacers last year because of our front court. we lost because we couldn't make 20+ some what wide open jump shots every single game after going up 3-0 on the Celts. we shot approximately 30% from the field.


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You essentially hung yourself with your own rope with this post.


If you think that's the main reason we lost then maybe you need go back and re-watch the series. Usually teams that "live by the jump shot die by the jump shot". We died! If we try it again we'll die sooner


In NBA History It's Proven....teams that "can't rebound and can't defend" lose in the playoffs. We had no answer for guys like Hibbert/West/Stephenson and Paul George most of the time looked other worldly


I'll never drive on the bridge you're trying to sell here and I think even the greater portion of homeristic Knick fans wouldn't either.
 

Broadway

All Star
I figured Amar'e was on a 15-20 min mandate....and yes, no back to backs....and yes, the way the team is now, we're gone in the first or second round

Mike Woodson reiterated on Saturday that he plans to alternate using Stoudemire and Martin when the Knicks play consecutive games. So if Stoudemire plays the first game of a back-to-back, you can expect to see Martin in the second game.

But Woodson took the plan a step further on Saturday, suggesting for the first time that Martin and Stoudemire could be alternating games throughout the season, depending on how many days off the Knicks have between games.

"I’m really considering alternating them from game to game. If there is a game and there’s three or four days between the next game, then we can play them both. But if there’s four in five nights, we’ll probably alternate each guy," Woodson said.


The Knicks have taken a cautious approach with both players in the preseason.



Stoudemire underwent a knee procedure over the summer -- his third operation in the past 12 months -- and was limited to just 29 games in the regular season last season due to knee ailments.

Martin is still feeling the effects of an ankle injury he suffered last April.

That's why Woodson and the Knicks' medical staff have recommended giving both regular rest during the season.

"We can kind of manage the season that way [so] they’re not being lost [to injury] because I pounded them for too many games in a row and they weren’t ready for it," Woodson said. "So we’re just going to take it a day at a time, a week at a time, and a month at a time, and see if we can grow with those two guys. I think we can."

Both Stoudemire and Martin have practiced sparingly during the preseason and training camp. The veteran forwards made their preseason debuts Friday night against Charlotte after sitting out the first six games of the exhibition season.


Woodson said both Stoudemire, 30, and Martin, 35, will start with a minutes limit of 10 per game this season. But the coach is hopeful that the limit can increase as the season goes along.

"We're going to see where it takes us," Woodson said.

The Knicks expect to have both Stoudemire and Martin in the season opener on Wednesday, but both players have to get through practice on Monday and Tuesday before they can be declared ready for the game against Milwaukee.

"I'm very optimistic that everything's going to be fine," Woodson said.


Unless Melo and Smith go 30/30 every night with high efficiency we have no shot this year. Watch and see how much the rest of the league has improved.
 

Kiyaman

Legend
Hate to break news to all here but Amar'e and K-Mart will be on a 10min max game limit alternating games, if we play so many in such nights. I mean that's how sad things are at this point and explains why Aldrich made the team.

We're not going to have a good season. We're too thin in our front court, we do not have a tough team, our back court is going to get ate alive as the league clearly has gotten better all the way across at the guard positions. Unless we totally change our style of play we're going to be discussing roster overhaul more and more.


Do we have to give D.League-Bargani playingtime this season?

The Knicks Front-Office is the HC of the Knicks providing fans with lies lies lies about Amare and K-Mart injuries.
I have not seen Amare or K-Mart get injured in any game to limp off the court in a Knicks jersey.
Lastseason when Tyson returned from missing 18 games with injury, Knicks front-office announce K-Mart was injured (RED-FLAG). Coincidence
Once the Bargani trade was official, and 6.11 Jeremy Tyler was a force in SLG, a week later the Knicks front-office release some suprise news from their medical-staff about the Knicks $100M player will be limited to 20 minutes per game. Coincidence
When the Meta World Peace signing became official, days later the Knicks front-office release some more suprise-suprise news about their $100M player having a suprise surgery 2 months earlier on his career injured Knee.
Coincidence .. To many LIES.

In the final preseason game on 25 Oct., Amare & K-Mart were givin playingtime only in the first half of the game to outscore Knicks oponents by 13 points by halftime. The next day on the 26 Oct. the Knicks-Brass had some clown from their front-office announce that Amare & K-Mart will alternate games in the reg-season LOL .. 7-8 start .. quote-me
Amare & K-Mart are the two-BIGS we want in a lineup together to have more wins than losses .. the two are meshing-bigs not "one on one" bigs like Tyson & Melo.

The three best career chemistry players on the Knicks roster are Amare, K-Mart, and Meta.

We should want these 3 players in a lineup in our opening-game on 30 Oct. at MSG.
The trio of Amare, K-Mart, and Meta in a frontcourt lineup for 10 straight games will produce team-chemistry.
 
how did.I hang.myself. I said their front court dominated ours but ultimately the Pacers front court dominated the heats as well. it.took ray Allen. battier and chalmers to make.the shots that smith Felton and Pablo couldn't. our role.players need to make shots.

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Broadway

All Star
how did.I hang.myself. I said their front court dominated ours but ultimately the Pacers front court dominated the heats as well. it.took ray Allen. battier and chalmers to make.the shots that smith Felton and Pablo couldn't. our role.players need to make shots.

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Chalmers did a lot of damage scoring inside too. Last I checked we didn't sign Pablo to be a scorer nor did we bill him as some dead eye shooter.

For the record...

Do you want to compare FGA between role players from both squads Heat and Knicks? Do you want to compare how many 3pt FGA were generated by both squads Heat and Knicks

Listen the Heat won because they run a high percentage offense ran by the best player in basketball. He's a helluva great scorer and the most efficient player in the league. Last but not least he shares the basketball as a habit, not conditionally, or when he decides it's convenient to do so. Oh and their team plays ELITE level defense when it needs to.

Unfortunately for us we run a low percentage offense, with one of the more inefficient top scorers in the league, who's hella selfish. We don't defend nor rebound well and we have a coach who caters only to certain players on the team.

Like Wade tried to told us last year in February/March....

"I hate that I really value efficiency. Because I look around the league sometimes and
I see a guy shooting 41, 42 percent
from the field and I'm like, '
Wow, they're just hoisting up shots and they don't care
.' I guess that's that freedom, but I don't have that mindset. I want to be as efficient as possible."


The reason you think we lost to the Pacers is unequivocally not the reason we lost to the Pacers.


I'm also getting a kick of how now the Pacers have become this focal point standard from which to measure ourselves.

Ummmm!!!!!!! ......We didn't trade for Carmelo and all of our future assets so we could try to figure out how to beat the Pacers(who mind weren't in the picture when this 2010 Pipe Dream began) which goes to show how flawed our approach has been. We put this team together to essentially beat Lebron and you could say the Rose/Bulls looking back at it's inception.
 

Broadway

All Star
Stop blaming the roles players too, it's not attractive at all.

When the so-called based player on the team attempts 25.8/FGA with an extreme high usage rate and only shoots 40.6PACENT during winning time, is pure garbage
 

knicksince 93

Rotation player
Stop blaming the roles players too, it's not attractive at all.

When the so-called based player on the team attempts 25.8/FGA with an extreme high usage rate and only shoots 40.6PACENT during winning time, is pure garbage

Jason kidd, felton, Tyson, and jr all played sub par. Those are role players and when the star is struggling you step up. They didn't do that hence the blame on them. Its not all melos fault its not even mostly his fault as to his play in addition to the role players play got us there. During the season when he played bad they stepped up. Didn't do it in the pacers series. The pacers have become the measuring stick because the team last year would have trashed the heat. They were last in guarding the 3 we were first in shooting them. Indy was first in guarding them therefore we struggled. Indy isn't better then mia but our match up with mia is much more favorable

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when a defense can focus all their attention on the one guy who is a threat. others must step up. when they don't. you lose. Shane battier was unconscious some games when lebron was off forcing the other teams coach to game plan to stop them essentially opening things up for lebron to take over. melo never had that chance because guys were not a threat. Jason Kidd didn't make a shot lol.

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knicksince 93

Rotation player
My thing is all you here around here is melo, melo melo should do this melo should do that, we'd be better off without him. Well for the people who imply that well then who are we better with then? Nobody, because he's a special talent. You take melo off the team then we're certainly a lottery team. No one ever brings up tyson getting horsed by indys bigs, felton getting out played but hill and kidd and jr just missing shots. Melo has done way more good for us then harm. Is he flawed? Yes but he's not a cancerous player, he's not a loser. I don't even like melo but he means so much to our team and he gets sh**ed daily around here it's sad. Hell yeah we lost cuz of our role players. Melo did exactly what he did the whole season his counterparts did not

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metrocard

Legend
in truth the only team we won't compete well against is the Pacers because they truly are one of the last teams in the NBA that boast a legitimate front court. with that being said we almost beat them last year if we didn't forget how to make open jump shots the heat won the championship last year with bosh as their pf avg 6.6 Reb a game and no center. the spurs starting center of splitter made it to finals avg less rebounds than that with Duncan as their only low post presence. point is the league is different. I think we will fare well with melo bargs amare metta and k mart shifting at the pf with chandler at center. that's honestly better than alot of winning teams it you map it all out on paper.


people seemingly forget that we didn't lose to the Pacers last year because of our front court. we lost because we couldn't make 20+ some what wide open jump shots every single game after going up 3-0 on the Celts. we shot approximately 30% from the field.




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Bosh plays needs to LeBron and Wade who average rebounds pretty well at their position and have a lot of guys who can come off the bench and rebound. Bosh isn't a bad rebounder himself, so lets understand this.

Tiago Splitter is a very good center. He can pass, defend, rebound and has ability offensively. You may to further research him.

Melo is good, but he isn't a PF. He doesn't rebound or block enough shots to play in the interior.

Defensively, it's not his position. Offensively, he has somewhat a speed and skill advantage.

Metta is a SF, out of position.

Martin and Amare are the only real PF's on the team, they're both C level players.

Spurs, Warriors, Bulls, Pacers, Nets, Clippers, Rockets, Grizzlies and T'Wolves easily have a better front court.
 

Broadway

All Star
Jason kidd, felton, Tyson, and jr all played sub par. Those are role players and when the star is struggling you step up. They didn't do that hence the blame on them. Its not all melos fault its not even mostly his fault as to his play in addition to the role players play got us there. During the season when he played bad they stepped up. Didn't do it in the pacers series. The pacers have become the measuring stick because the team last year would have trashed the heat. They were last in guarding the 3 we were first in shooting them. Indy was first in guarding them therefore we struggled. Indy isn't better then mia but our match up with mia is much more favorable

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Then Grunny was an EPIC failure as a gm...a gm many of you wanted to laud as legit because you felt he was strapped financially making great off-season signings.

Well who brought those players here?

This also suggest it makes no sense to pay Melo $26-28mil/yr because obviously you need to surround him with Olympic Team type talent or have enough cap space and large enough exceptions to pay premium dollars for better role players.


I'll let your side of the argument twist yourselves into pretzels, trying to have it both ways.
 

tiger0330

Legend
This was in the NY Post. Not sure if the 1st prediction is that bold, I think it's pretty obvious and I don't think it will be mid-season if the Knicks play below .500 in Dec. I just mentioned Toure Murry in that Crazy8 video thread that I liked his business like reaction to that 45 ft. 3 pointer he made, I think he's an assassin in the making.


NY POST said:
Three Bold Predictions

- Andrea Bargnani will not rebound enough or play the kind of team and transition defense to keep him in starting lineup. Expect coach Mike Woodson to turn to Metta World Peace around midseason and have Carmelo Anthony back at power forward.

- Combo guard Toure’ Murry will turn into a sparkplug/fan favorite. Filling the role Chris Copeland did last season, Murry will eventually crack the Knicks’ rotation permanently.
- Carmelo Anthony doesn’t win scoring title. He will, however, have his best season on the boards and on the defensive end.
 
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tiger0330

Legend
Looks like MWP practiced with the starters today and Bargs with the second unit. Woody was non-committal about the starting lineup so MWP might be in the starting lineup for opening day instead of Bargs.
 

skisloper

Starter
Looks like MWP practiced with the starters today and Bargs with the second unit. Woody was non-committal about the starting lineup so MWP might be in the starting lineup for opening day instead of Bargs.


As it should be. Metta should be in the starting kine-up.
Felton
Shump
Metta
Melo
Chandler

Prigs
JR
Bargiani
Amare
 
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