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Thread: 10/31/13: New York Knicks @ Chicago Bulls (8:00 pm)

  1. #76
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    Either watch basketball or stop watching basketball....your choice

  2. #77
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    Originally Posted by mafra
    Carmelo was brutal in the 4th yesterday and followed that up with another choke job tonight. I understand his thinking to some extent - because he has so much faith in his ability to shoot - that it's better to stay outside where he has space/separation, as posed to going down low where he's surely to get hacked (and he'll never got the call).

    But he fails to realize he misses these "game-on-the-line" shots far more often than he hits one. He may be one of the best at doing it, but we're still talking 33% or something. In baseball those may be good odds....

    For the most part, he has himself to blame because he constantly cries foul to the refs, and this distracts him. Arguing calls isn't professional and it does nothing to help you get a call later... So why foolishly belabor the fact?

    Also, he is a big forward. Ergo, of course guards get the call more bc of the simple style differences (how they attack the rim).

    Carmelo still doesn't get it. His best bet in these situations is a quick, decisive first step attacking basket or defender. Just like what Rose did. Do not let defense set, and cause your base to get stationary. And stop settling! Take the pass and attack. But he isn't coordinated like a guard, or can he handle ball or his control his body. He knows a turnover, charge, no-call or something bad is the likely outcome.

    I can live with the shot he took at end of game though. It was an open look. He choked. I think the previous 4 touches though were a disgrace. Another turnover in a clutch situation. I absolutely hate those spin corner fadeaway jumpers.

    Bottom line, Anthony has been ice cold both games and when it got down to it in these fourth quarters... He takes the easy way out and pulls up for jumpers. Carmelo is a streaky shooter. It's not like he is a pure shooter. I don't want him take long range shots with the game on the line.

    i think Dolan released those expectations as a shot at Carmelo tho. Meaning if he cannot deliver this season, with his best team yet, then he can opt out and run.... Because he won't be worth a max contract as he enters his thirties. Worst thing for the Knicks is to be a second round team for 4 years. I agree too.

    Last year things broke perfectly for this team to get to Eastern Conf Finals. Melo couldn't deliver.

    And the idiot starts out this campaign by opening his big mouth, talking nonsense about free agency? How dumb can a guy be? Did the weight of that impact his performance the last 48 hours? Let's face it, when Rose is in top form again, Bulls will be blowing us out by 25 points.

    i admit the officials were terrible again. Phantom travel on Anthony took 2 points away, Felton never got a call while Kirk gets to the line if you blew on him. That Reach-in foul on CHi shouldn't have been called b/c it spoiled a NYk fast break. That cost us 2 points.

    ... and Woodson was awful again with his rotation and lack of any semblance of coaching down the stretch.

    What we've learned is we are not good enough to beat MIA, InDY or Chi in a 7 game series. We have no answer in the half court set except ISO to Melo, which doesn't work. We will never get calls from refs, and our coach crumbles when we need him most. Expecting the results to change when you deploy the same strategy is insane. It's exactly why Woody and Melo have been disasters in the playoffs. Basketball is all about movement. You get stagnant, you lose.

    Sure, we'll win 48-52 games. If we get a top 3 seed, we probably win a playoff series. Then it will all come crumbling down. Shump will never be more than a tease, STAT is done.

    i so hope I am wrong. I hope Bargs and JR are enough to compliment Melo, and that Felton and TC stay healthy and that Shump and Hardaway become stars. And that Melo goes DIRK for us and has a miraculous run come June. But, if it were my money, If we lose in the first or second round again and Melo opts out.... I don't give him the max. I let him walk. He will look like a fool, for forcing himself out of Denver to come here and then running away. I let him walk. I suck for a season, get a top pick and clear the payroll and reset everything.

    I am just tired of this Melo-drama. It's ugly basketball. And he's just not that good. And even if he were a top 10 player in the NBA, he still needs a sidekick. We do not have a second star. We don't even have a third star. We have some good players.... But that's not enough.

    It's the Ewing era all over again. The early 90s. We know CHI, Indy and MIA are going to best us... We watch anyway.... But no matter what happens the next 80 games.... We know it's coming. Melo goes ice cold in June. 6-23. Clank, brick, and then we go home.
    Great post. You are right about Dolan. He may not be as dumb as we think. His announcement about winning it all expectation is a direct shot at Melo. Deliver now or get lost.
    How many times we have to go down at the end of a close game with Melo taking a jump shot?
    We only needed 1 point to send it to the OT. And what does our coach do? Even my dog knew who was going to take the last shot.
    What an ugly game and what an ugly finish. We could still win this game as DRose was just terrible, lucky rainbow shot at the end, Tyson missing a critical free throw.
    We are too predictible on the offensive end. Cant beat top teams that way.

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    Originally Posted by groundpilot
    Great post. You are right about Dolan. He may not be as dumb as we think. His announcement about winning it all expectation is a direct shot at Melo. Deliver now or get lost.
    How many times we have to go down at the end of a close game with Melo taking a jump shot?
    We only needed 1 point to send it to the OT. And what does our coach do? Even my dog knew who was going to take the last shot.
    What an ugly game and what an ugly finish. We could still win this game as DRose was just terrible, lucky rainbow shot at the end, Tyson missing a critical free throw.
    We are too predictible on the offensive end. Cant beat top teams that way.

    After we tied the game the next 2 possessions were ISO MELO........After we seemed to have a nice flow I do not know why we went to ISO MELO and I wonder if Coach Woodson called it out.......

    Coaches coaching against the Knicks must love it......with the Knicks getting the last shot its always the same play with Melo getting the ball and shooting from the same spot......Why Melo does not drive on that play and opens the possibility of getting fouled I just do not know............

    When JR comes back what happens with Hardaway.....

    Its also only a matter of time until the AMARE situation blows up......I hate Amare's contract and hate his defense but this 11 minute crap is just garbage........Either bench him or play him.....I mean what can a player possibly due every pther game in 11 minutes except disrupt the flow of a game......

  4. #79
    ★Melo Mafia★ NY17KNICKS's Avatar
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    It's easy to blame Melo for the ISO play but maybe we should get a head coach that is actually in control of his players?

    Our defense is good under Woodson yes but he's proven that's clueless with rotation and clearly our offense lives and dies by Melo and the 3 ball. Being a Melo fan, even I'm getting sick of the constant feeding to Melo down the stretch when clearly we were rolling and there was open players to pass to. Melo can get it done, you forget that but there was better opportunities but if the coach is constantly blowing him it's hard to wonder why we lose. Woodson is our next stop gap.

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    Originally Posted by NY17KNICKS
    It's easy to blame Melo for the ISO play but maybe we should get a head coach that is actually in control of his players?

    Our defense is good under Woodson yes but he's proven that's clueless with rotation and clearly our offense lives and dies by Melo and the 3 ball. Being a Melo fan, even I'm getting sick of the constant feeding to Melo down the stretch when clearly we were rolling and there was open players to pass to. Melo can get it done, you forget that but there was better opportunities but if the coach is constantly blowing him it's hard to wonder why we lose. Woodson is our next stop gap.

    Woodson did the same thing with Joe Johnson in Atlanta.........I do not think you can blame Melo .
    Woody coaches scared and thats why he never gets him team too far in the playoffs despite how well they do in the regular season.....He ALWAYS resorts to the safest option so MELO goes ISO ......OR if JR is 1-10 in the first half in Woodsons mind eventually JR will get hot.....Woodson never plays into the equation what damage is alrady done to get a player hot...

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    Originally Posted by Kiyaman
    There were never any ISO-plays in Doc Rivers (top passing-skillz) BIG-3 plus Rondo .. Ray Allen was the catch n shoot closer
    Man you must of hardly watched Boston then....I live in Boston, majority of my friends are Celtics fans, they knew atleast 75% of the time ISO Pierce would be the play when game was on the line and they had the last shot.

    I've seen plenty of Celtics games throughout Doc's tenure......ISO Pierce was the play way more times than not in a 1 possession game when Boston had the last shot. ....just stating the facts.....also never said that's al the ran, but it was VERY common play they would run in these type of situations.

    check out the videos and link to a Celtics forum below for yourself since you have no clue what your talking about if you think Doc never ran ISO Pierce at end of games lol

    Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk
    Last edited by PaPZ187; Nov 01, 2013 at 23:36.

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    first of all, I never said that ISO Pierce was all Doc ran in a one possession game in the final minute.....I said it happens more often than not.....for you to act like this is some ground breaking news is ridiculous.....no need to get all emotional over my post.....yes I realize Doc has run plays for KG and Ray such as both hit game winners in the 2012 series vs us......but ISO Pierce was run a ton of the time at the end of games don't get it twists .here are plenty of times ISO Pierce was the play in the final minute of the game.....

    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    this video alone has a half dozen ISO Pierce shots at the buzzer (not every shot in this video is an ISO buzzer beater though, but plenty of examples of Doc running ISO for final shot):
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    Here's one vs NYK...Pierce for the switch to Amare, isolated and hit GW
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    got the switch, missed GW vs SA

    my apologies if there are duplicate videos.....my internet is lagging so took forever to load a video, copy then paste

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    From a Celtics forum, talking about how often Doc runs the ISO Pierce play at the end of games.....link and first post below:

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    Disappointing to see Doc call the Paul Pierce isolation once again late in the game. I
    t's hard to believe that instead of stressing ball movement and avoiding the "hero ball" that Doc detests he falls right back into allowing Pierce to dribble around and take a contested shot.

    The worst part is that Doc was happy with the shot and Paul sees nothing wrong with the late game execution either.

    "Listen, Paul Pierce taking a step-back at the [free throw line], that's not a bad option," said Rivers. "I just wish we could have done it a bit earlier."

    "I was trying to make the shot," said Pierce. "I got the switch on the big man, got to a good place -- I just missed the shot.Ē

    Pressed on if he considered driving, or if he expected the Spurs to give a foul, Pierce shrugged off both notions.

    "This type of stuff is not really pre-scripted, you donít have an idea of whatís going to happen in those type of situations," said Pierce. "You get in those pressure situations and sometimes they work and sometimes they donít, but the thing is Iím not going to second guess my decision. I thought I got a great shot, created some space right there at the free throw line. It's just some days they fall, some days they donít."

    Doc did seem a bit frustrated that Pierce waited around too long instead of getting into the play quicker -

    "We actually said that they probably would [give the foul] and we were trying to get Duncan on a Paul matchup, because we thought we had the speed advantage," said Rivers. "We wanted him to go a little quicker because I thought [Pierce] couldíve beat [Duncan] off the dribble and he wouldíve reached the foul line and you know Paul has a knack of getting the ball up. But his step-back is what he wants. I just thought we waited a little too late in the clock.Ē

    The Celtics had 2 timeouts to go over this play and it would seem Doc was stressing to get moving quickly. It made no sense for Pierce to dribble and wait until the last second to shoot. At the very least put up a shot with enough time to grab an offensive rebound and another chance to score. The Celtics had just held the Spurs to 28 points in the second half so even if Boston had left time on the clock their stellar defense would have had a great chance to finish the game.

    Paul Pierce is a clutch player and has hit many huge shots over his career. Of course he is a top option to take big shots late in games. However relying on Pierce dribbling around and taking contested jumpers instead of using ball movement to get himself or a teammate a much better shot makes little sense.

    It's disappointing that Doc isn't able to come up with a better option than just giving Pierce the ball and having everyone else uninvolved late in games. Ray had just hit a wide open look from 3 on the previous possession which resulted from great ball movement.

    Instead of running an offensive set Doc went right back to his comfort zone of allowing Pierce to take over by himself. Doc seems to be missing the point that teams have no problem with allowing Pierce to take contested fadeaway jumpers in crunch time. Otherwise the Spurs would have double teamed to prevent the play that everyone knew was coming. Opposing teams just funnel Pierce further outside and live with the results of a contested shot. If the Celtics would change the script and run a different set then Pierce or his teammates could get much better looks. Instead of seeing this Doc just keeps insisting that isolating Pierce is a good way to finish games even if the results rarely are successful...






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    "The Paul Pierce isolation play probably defies conventional wisdom in a number of ways. It's predictable (when Pierce is still dribbling above the three point line on the right side with six seconds left, everyone knows what's about to happen), and, as far as I know, the stats don't back it up (apparently that mid-range jumper Pierce so often takes is one of worst shots a player can take in terms of percentage). But there are times where you throw conventional wisdom out the window and just rely on your player. Sometimes we just have to forget about the stats and percentages and trust our guy to do what he does pretty darn well."



    Have no idea why some felt the need to "call me out" for stating that Doc ran a lot of. ISO Pierce at the of games when this is nothin new.......was just stating a fact nothing more........so before some call me out and tell me to"watch Basketball or don't" do yourself a favor and take your own advice before you get all emotional and call someone out for stating facts.

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    Originally Posted by 3G4G
    I recall at least 3gms out of he past 3 yrs against us, Doc has drawn up plays to beat in those situations. Garnett and Pierce dropping daggers. I also recall Ray Allen winning at least 2-3gms for the Celtics in the clutch... over the same stretch.

    So I stand by what I said. I was referring more to drawing up plays out of timeouts and Doc is widely regarded as one of the best in the business. I could care less how many games you say you watched. Obviously you haven't watched enough or your memory is failing you tremendously

    But just for you let's go down memory lane.....






    &

    Check out my posts and videos above if you think Doc didn't run ISO Pierce more often than not. AGAIN, never said that's all he ran, I obviously remember the game winners by KG and Allen in 2012 playoffs, but it was definitely more often than not Pierce was getting isolation on final shot......just read what Boston fans said about how often that play was run down the stretch.

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    No idea what happened with Udrih. I hope this **** doesn't happen again. Play him.

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    Not a huge fan of the iso melo shot at the end of the game Thursday night but ehhh the Bulls are a great team. You win some, you lose some. Hopefully the Knicks players have already forgot about thursday, theres a game tomorrow against a rebounding machine thats destroyed us in the past

    I hope the new and improved Tyson Chandler is ready to do some boxing out. Actually, World Peace might be the perfect guy to put on Kevin Love. Peace understand that leaving a guy like Love alone is asking for trouble. You leave that guy for a second and hes either gonna steal a rebound or knock down a 3. U gotta stick to him like velcro

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    BTW, did anyone notice that the Bulls PA announcer didn't announce D-Rose being from Memphis during the intro? It was "at blahblahblah, number 1, from Chicago". It'd be so cool if Walczewski started announcing Melo (and MWP) "from New York".

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    Originally Posted by PaPZ187
    Man you must of hardly watched Boston then....I live in Boston, majority of my friends are Celtics fans, they knew atleast 75% of the time ISO Pierce would be the play when game was on the line and they had the last shot.

    I've seen plenty of Celtics games throughout Doc's tenure......ISO Pierce was the play way more times than not in a 1 possession game when Boston had the last shot. ....just stating the facts.....also never said that's al the ran, but it was VERY common play they would run in these type of situations.

    check out the videos and link to a Celtics forum below for yourself since you have no clue what your talking about if you think Doc never ran ISO Pierce at end of games lol
    Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk

    Im not speakin on HC Doc Rivers Lastseason in a desperation Celtics team ....
    Im speakin on Doc Rivers "BIG-3 plus Rondo" having several "One on One" plays for each of the BIG-3 with Rondo creating the one on one for each of the BIG-3. When u have a PG u could always pass the ball back and forth with on a "one n one" its not considered a Isolation play.
    I hate to say it, Celtricks had the best-ball-movement team in the NBA for 3 years when they had Perkins/BigBaby on the roster 2007 to 2010.

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    Originally Posted by PaPZ187
    Check out my posts and videos above if you think Doc didn't run ISO Pierce more often than not. AGAIN, never said that's all he ran, I obviously remember the game winners by KG and Allen in 2012 playoffs, but it was definitely more often than not Pierce was getting isolation on final shot......just read what Boston fans said about how often that play was run down the stretch.

    Pierce has always been one of the top highest scorers in the 2nd-half, and 4th quarter closers of a game throughout his career.
    This is why Boston paid Pierce star-salary money for 15 years.

    Yeah, Pierce still did/do run some of the isolation-plays he ran early in his career with Walker.

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    Originally Posted by RunningJumper
    No idea what happened with Udrih. I hope this **** doesn't happen again. Play him.

    I dunno, Beno came into camp weight-weight outta-shape ..
    I would give Beno 3 weeks workin-out with the team before givin him steady playintime
    Murry should be givin spot-minutes at PG.

    I still want to see "Amare & K-Mart" receive 18 to 24 minutes of playingtime in every rotation.
    I do not want to see Melo in the same-lineup with Amare.
    If Amare is not going to be a STARTER, than K-Mart is the next option at starter.
    Let Amare & Meta tandem off the bench.

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