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Thread: Trade : Shump to Denver

  1. #16
    Nein, Mann! Lercher's Avatar
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    Maybe instead of getting rid of Woodson the GM should provide him with personnel that would fit well into his system? Let's be honest, Woodson is not out there playing and judging by his in-game reactions I can tell he's more than unhappy with how these Knicks are trying to implement his game plans. Players with non-existent defensive skills will never fit well into Woody's system. If you provide Woodson with players like Bargnani or Hardaway you can't expect it to work. As of now three out of five players in the starting lineup don't have the word "defense" in their dictionaries. We also don't have a reliable power forward and a backup center. Instead we have a 6'11 PF/C on a $20M/year contract with minutes restriction becuase he's got the knees of a 70 years old. We also have a soon to be 36 years old 6'9 PF who could contribute on the defensive end, but is also on minutes restriction. And last but not least we've got a 7' center who just grabbed one single rebound in 26 minutes of playing time. And now tell me how is this Woody's fault?

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    Originally Posted by Lercher
    Maybe instead of getting rid of Woodson the GM should provide him with personnel that would fit well into his system? Let's be honest, Woodson is not out there playing and judging by his in-game reactions I can tell he's more than unhappy with how these Knicks are trying to implement his game plans. Players with non-existent defensive skills will never fit well into Woody's system. If you provide Woodson with players like Bargnani or Hardaway you can't expect it to work. As of now three out of five players in the starting lineup don't have the word "defense" in their dictionaries. We also don't have a reliable power forward and a backup center. Instead we have a 6'11 PF/C on a $20M/year contract with minutes restriction becuase he's got the knees of a 70 years old. We also have a soon to be 36 years old 6'9 PF who could contribute on the defensive end, but is also on minutes restriction. And last but not least we've got a 7' center who just grabbed one single rebound in 26 minutes of playing time. And now tell me how is this Woody's fault?
    I agree a lot of the fault goes on the players, but Woodson definitely is the one at fault for not playing some players enough and/or at the right time. Copeland for example should have gotten more of a chance. As far as the minutes restrictions and every other game thing, I don't know who decided that.

  3. #18
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    I don't know how about K-Mart, but it wouldn't surprise me if Dolan was behind Amare's restriction. You don't pay a player $100M to watch most of the games from the bench... in street clothes. I also agree Woody isn't blameless here, but this whole situation is a more complicated issue IMO. Bad personnel decisions by Walsh/Grunwald, players underperforming, poor coaching. Everybody involved got his share of the Knicks current struggles. And what scares me the most is that there is no instant fix in place. It's not like Mills or Woody can change anything right away. We have to wait it out, if nothing changes after 20-25 games we should push the panic button where the most reasonable call would be to blow it all up. Let's see if Murry/Aldrich get some more PT, let's see how this team performs with Tyler in the lineup. How Amare/K-Mart will develop their games etc.
    Last edited by Lercher; Nov 10, 2013 at 18:37.

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    Originally Posted by Lercher
    I don't know how about K-Mart, but it wouldn't surprise me if Dolan was behind Amare's restriction. You don't pay a player $100M to watch most of the games from the bench... in street clothes. I also agree Woody isn't blameless here, but this whole situation is a more complicated issue IMO. Bad personnel decisions by Walsh/Grunwald, players underperforming, poor coaching. Everybody involved got his share of the Knicks current struggles. And what scares me the most is that there is no instant fix in place. It's not like Mills or Woody can change anything right away. We have to wait it out, if nothing changes after 20-25 games we should push the panic button where the most reasonable call would be to blow it all up. Let's see if Murry/Aldrich get some more PT, let's see how this team performs with Tyler in the lineup. How Amare/K-Mart will develop their games etc.

    A start would not be switching on every single pick and screen. Clyde is constantly saying you cannot expect a guard to cover a 6-10 player and teams are exploiting our mismatches....As a coach you work with what you have and I 100% agree Woody is a tough situation......Felton should not be our starting PG.

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    Honestly, as much as i like Shump, Faried and Miller for him is a steal imo...Plus Miller is a real starting PG which we don't have now, as the 3 we have are sporadic....btw, how old is Miller, like 38

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    Woodson's system is a gimmick system if you guys haven't got it by now.

    Sacrificing Shumpert for Woody's gimmick offense and lazy defense will haunt this franchise like all of the bad moves Isaiah made for us.

    Think David Lee and Trevor Ariza. You don't trade good young players just like that.

    Let Denver give us Fareid. It seems like whenever we make a deal with Denver, they end up getting their hands full of good players and we take trash in return, anyone remember the Nene/Camby for Antonio McD deal?

    Woodson needs to be fired.
    Everyone with a big contract has to be traded and we need to get draft picks and cap space via those trades.

    Going the alternative route is a path to long term failure.

    Let's avoid that.

  7. #22
    Nein, Mann! Lercher's Avatar
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    He's gonna be fired as soon as Wednesday if we don't beat the Hawks. Dolan said the Knicks are gonna win that game, and if they aren't we all know how JD will react. It's not even a warning, it's a threat, Woody is now officially sitting on a hot seat. If the Knicks don't turn it around Woody's gone before the end of this week. I only don't know who would be a better fit for this team. I mean, no serious coach will ever work for a guy like Dolan.

  8. #23
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    Originally Posted by Lercher
    Maybe instead of getting rid of Woodson the GM should provide him with personnel that would fit well into his system? Let's be honest, Woodson is not out there playing and judging by his in-game reactions I can tell he's more than unhappy with how these Knicks are trying to implement his game plans. Players with non-existent defensive skills will never fit well into Woody's system. If you provide Woodson with players like Bargnani or Hardaway you can't expect it to work. As of now three out of five players in the starting lineup don't have the word "defense" in their dictionaries. We also don't have a reliable power forward and a backup center. Instead we have a 6'11 PF/C on a $20M/year contract with minutes restriction becuase he's got the knees of a 70 years old. We also have a soon to be 36 years old 6'9 PF who could contribute on the defensive end, but is also on minutes restriction. And last but not least we've got a 7' center who just grabbed one single rebound in 26 minutes of playing time. And now tell me how is this Woody's fault?

    What 5 man lineup does Woodson favor the most on the Knicks ???

    Let me make this much easier .. we know what 5 man lineup the Championship Miami Heat favors the most bc they been playing that lineup for 3 straight seasons going into their 4th season using the same 5 Man lineup ....
    Charmer/Wade/Lebron/Bosh/Haslem.
    In their first season (2010-11), I seen HC Spoe run this same 5 Man lineup for 12 to 14 straight minutes in every half.
    Which pissed off Lebron James.

    Woodson is a poor man coach who should be coaching the Bobcats .. u just dont do the foolishness Woodson does as a HC.
    There's nothing Melo bout a 2-4 record, and a 1-3 Home record, when a bunch of "Old-Heads" gave u a 6-0 record, but all the chaotic-foolishness made the old-heads get out of their Knicks contract before the next season.
    Hint: If the "Old-Heads" seen Woodson as a NBA contender HC all or half of them would still be with the Knicks.

    Woodson's one and 1/2 season .. are still experimenting (trying) to find 4 players out of 14 players to fit into a lineup with ISO-Melo. Which means Woody has not finish his first homework assignment .. a starting 5 unit.
    Whats wrong with this picture? It's not about the Knicks team .. its all bout Melo, Melo, Melo, for 48 minutes in each of the 82 game season.
    When u have Dolan's big money to build a team .. u build a 2 unit team of 12 players out of 15 players, where half of ur 2nd unit players would be starters on the next team.

    Felton/JR/Melo/K-Mart/Tyson - 6th man THJ or Murry
    Prig/Shump/Meta/Amare/Barg - 6th man Aldrich
    a two-unit lineup running the same plays to create chemistry at the start of the season.



    Originally Posted by Lercher View Post
    I don't know how about K-Mart, but it wouldn't surprise me if Dolan was behind Amare's restriction. You don't pay a player $100M to watch most of the games from the bench... in street clothes. I also agree Woody isn't blameless here, but this whole situation is a more complicated issue IMO. Bad personnel decisions by Walsh/Grunwald, players underperforming, poor coaching. Everybody involved got his share of the Knicks current struggles. And what scares me the most is that there is no instant fix in place. It's not like Mills or Woody can change anything right away. We have to wait it out, if nothing changes after 20-25 games we should push the panic button where the most reasonable call would be to blow it all up. Let's see if Murry/Aldrich get some more PT, let's see how this team performs with Tyler in the lineup. How Amare/K-Mart will develop their games etc.

    Two winning Star players are being band from playing NBA B.Ball by HC Woodson, it seem o.k. with owner Dolan, and his Goldenboy ISO-Melo.

    I recall in 2003-4, Knicks Allan Houston coming off of a surgery in the offseason were also restricted to playing alternating games, the big difference was Knicks HC Chamber let Allan Houston average 34 minutes, and 24 points per game while calling time-outs mainly for the sake of Allan Houston injury.
    HC Chamber's favorite winning 5 man lineup was Mutombo/K.Thomas/KVH/Houston/Ward - 6th man F.Williams.

    This is the first time in my 40 somethin years of watchin the NBA, that a injury restriction has got as low as 10 minutes of playingtime per game at the start of the season .. WTF could Lebron do for a team with just 10 min per gm?
    A 10 minute player belong in REHAB! untill he is healthy enough to play 24 minutes of full contact b.ball.
    Alternating back to back games is something we all understand for a 24 minute playingtime player who's playing through injury ....
    BUTT .. alternating 10 minute per game star-players in every other game throughout the season (LMAO) are CRAZY, and TANKING TANKING TANKING .. the Knicks dont have any 2014 draft picks, so it leave no intentional motive to TANK the season .... call it a conspiracy-theory.
    Dolan sold us out for the next two seasons .................

  9. #24
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    The Shump for Faried trade was up during September in other Knicks-Forums.
    New HC Brian Shaw and Faried must not see eye to eye, then again, Iggy couldnt wait to get out of Denver.
    Denver wouldnt have any problem taking Amare 2 year contract.
    The Knicks would have problems explaining Amare new health in Denver playing 30 minutes in every game ala Camby.

    I was a big fan of Kenneth Faried in college controlling the boards like Rodman.
    u damn right I wanted Faried in the draft.

    Iman Shumpert is the best SG we had since Spree & Houston. In the past decade it look like we had little interest in getting a starter SG .... we had a injury retired Penny Hardaway, a raw bad-decision making Crawford dribble-dribble shoot performance, then we had tiny Nate being our best SG, till rookie Landry Fields took the job. com'on
    I know Shump is not a starter, yet.

  10. #25
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    Originally Posted by Kiyaman
    What 5 man lineup does Woodson favor the most on the Knicks ???

    Let me make this much easier .. we know what 5 man lineup the Championship Miami Heat favors the most bc they been playing that lineup for 3 straight seasons going into their 4th season using the same 5 Man lineup ....
    Charmer/Wade/Lebron/Bosh/Haslem.
    In their first season (2010-11), I seen HC Spoe run this same 5 Man lineup for 12 to 14 straight minutes in every half.
    Which pissed off Lebron James.

    Woodson is a poor man coach who should be coaching the Bobcats .. u just dont do the foolishness Woodson does as a HC.
    There's nothing Melo bout a 2-4 record, and a 1-3 Home record, when a bunch of "Old-Heads" gave u a 6-0 record, but all the chaotic-foolishness made the old-heads get out of their Knicks contract before the next season.
    Hint: If the "Old-Heads" seen Woodson as a NBA contender HC all or half of them would still be with the Knicks.

    Woodson's one and 1/2 season .. are still experimenting (trying) to find 4 players out of 14 players to fit into a lineup with ISO-Melo. Which means Woody has not finish his first homework assignment .. a starting 5 unit.
    Whats wrong with this picture? It's not about the Knicks team .. its all bout Melo, Melo, Melo, for 48 minutes in each of the 82 game season.
    When u have Dolan's big money to build a team .. u build a 2 unit team of 12 players out of 15 players, where half of ur 2nd unit players would be starters on the next team.

    Felton/JR/Melo/K-Mart/Tyson - 6th man THJ or Murry
    Prig/Shump/Meta/Amare/Barg - 6th man Aldrich
    a two-unit lineup running the same plays to create chemistry at the start of the season.






    Two winning Star players are being band from playing NBA B.Ball by HC Woodson, it seem o.k. with owner Dolan, and his Goldenboy ISO-Melo.

    I recall in 2003-4, Knicks Allan Houston coming off of a surgery in the offseason were also restricted to playing alternating games, the big difference was Knicks HC Chamber let Allan Houston average 34 minutes, and 24 points per game while calling time-outs mainly for the sake of Allan Houston injury.
    HC Chamber's favorite winning 5 man lineup was Mutombo/K.Thomas/KVH/Houston/Ward - 6th man F.Williams.

    This is the first time in my 40 somethin years of watchin the NBA, that a injury restriction has got as low as 10 minutes of playingtime per game at the start of the season .. WTF could Lebron do for a team with just 10 min per gm?
    A 10 minute player belong in REHAB! untill he is healthy enough to play 24 minutes of full contact b.ball.
    Alternating back to back games is something we all understand for a 24 minute playingtime player who's playing through injury ....
    BUTT .. alternating 10 minute per game star-players in every other game throughout the season (LMAO) are CRAZY, and TANKING TANKING TANKING .. the Knicks dont have any 2014 draft picks, so it leave no intentional motive to TANK the season .... call it a conspiracy-theory.
    Dolan sold us out for the next two seasons .................
    You mean Don Chaney (Chambers).

  11. #26
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    Yes to trading Shumpert if we can get a decent 1st rounder in 2015 or multiple 2nd round picks in this year's draft.

    I would look at bringing a guy like Terrence Williams in, it can't hurt us more than we are.

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    Originally Posted by skisloper
    A start would not be switching on every single pick and screen. Clyde is constantly saying you cannot expect a guard to cover a 6-10 player and teams are exploiting our mismatches....As a coach you work with what you have and I 100% agree Woody is a tough situation......Felton should not be our starting PG.
    Did you see what we did vs Spurs on sunday during the very first defensive move? Barg was switched to guard Parker on the perimeter. Our center was guarding one of the fastest and probably the best point guards. That is a stupid mismatch that can be avoided if we had a semi decent coach.
    As i said, we have two huge problems: Woodson and Felton. Woodson would look better with a real point guard but Felton makes everything more difficult
    I think right now there might be another problem, Players see that this coach is clueless and they stopped listenig to him. Thats why there is no effort on the defensive end. As a result, blowout losses at home.
    Even Woody said after the game, when your shots are not falling, and you dont play with an effort on the defensive end, its a prescription for disaster.
    Lets see how we come out on wednesday vs Hawks. If we are not ready to play again, Woody is a gonner.

  13. #28
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    Knicks, the only NBA franchise to pick up the HC's option and mull over firing him a month later.
    It happened before though, I remember we exercised Billups' option in the offseason and amnestied him before the RS started.

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    How come Woddy can b fired after 2 games if both loose?

    its too early for everything

    but what we saw vs Bobcats @ MSG and SPurs answer is simply no D

    Smith Felton MELO Andrea arent defenders

    style of playing for Knicks is totaly opposite of Spurs

    and i agree Woodson players arent fullfill his system.

    hawks aint better than Knicks Rockets are 4-3 but still they got Harden parsons and D12 Lin is now bench player.

    Barkley still in TNT?

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    Originally Posted by Lercher
    Knicks, the only NBA franchise to pick up the HC's option and mull over firing him a month later.
    It happened before though, I remember we exercised Billups' option in the offseason and amnestied him before the RS started.

    A Huge night for Jeremy Lin last night ( I did not want to keep him at that money ) so it appears the perfect storm is developing for Mike Woodson. Based on the Knicks inability to defend and the constant switching I do not see how Bargani will guard Lin...haha..........

    The only hope we have is that Felton can play with a chip on his shoulder and I imagine he will know Felton vs. Lin will be watched.......


    Lin will most likely have a big game and Woody will be gone the next day.

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