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Thread: Woodson's Accountability

  1. #16
    Superstar nuckles2k2's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by groundpilot
    Hey, nuckles, i am surprized that you want Melo to stay. I used to be his fan, but after watching him play here in new york, i am convinced that he is too selfish, does not or does not want to understand the team concept, not at all team oriented player, who dosnt make players around him better, just opposite.
    As i look at the current situation in the team, nobody is happy to play with him, STAT voiced his opinion, i know he is irrelevant now, but he was right about lack of ball movement. It was a straight shot at Melo, and i think he was reflecting the mood of the whole team. Tyson said the same thing last year, expressed his frastration about running the floor, to only wach MELO and JR (Melo requested to bring him here btw) dribbling and shooting like their teammates dont exist.
    If you give him the max contract, and build the team around him, to satisfy his style of play, dont you think its too risky?
    I would trade him, while he is still highly regarded in this league for an elite point guard and go from there.
    Please identify the team concept for me. The Knicks have been playing like a team with no identity all season.

    They're playing for a head coach who turned Joe Johnson from Phoenix, into ISO-Joe in Atlanta. I've watched Woodson's offensive "scheme" be "give the ball to the best, highest paid player, when he wants it, and play off of him."

    No one really has a role when the ball crosses half court, that's why we ROUTINELY see the PG dribble the clock down to like 11 secs, then one pass and a shot attempt. Our PnRs go no where, our PG rarely ever makes the "hockey assist" where he's orchestrating the offense and is seeing a play developing.

    JR is playing like trash lately, but instead of his minutes getting cut back just a tad, to try to get more production elsewhere -- while still giving JR enough of a chance to play his way out of it... what do we see? JR gets a plethora of minutes that he doesn't need or utilize. That's Melo's fault? If you say so.

    Melo's faults this year are his brain-farts on defense, and his poor 3-PT %. Other than that, he is the team's concept. Especially with this coach.

    If you see something different can you please enlighten us all as to what is is.

    Do so without bringing up asinine points like "STAT voiced his opinion." I couldn't give less of a **** what the opinion is of some dude who's being paid over $20M dollars to go out there and play well once out of every 5 or 6 games, turn the ball over like it's a part of his job description, and then whine about the ball not moving when he gets it on the lower wing and his options seem to be: turnover, or shot attempt.

    I want Melo to stay and org. build something around him. But to be honest, if I were him, I'd be outta here. The owner is stupid, the front office is full of idiots and yes-men, and the fans.... lol.
    Last edited by nuckles2k2; Dec 02, 2013 at 06:19.

  2. #17
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    Originally Posted by nuckles2k2
    Please identify the team concept for me. The Knicks have been playing like a team with no identity all season.

    They're playing for a head coach who turned Joe Johnson from Phoenix, into ISO-Joe in Atlanta. I've watched Woodson's offensive "scheme" be "give the ball to the best, highest paid player, when he wants it, and play off of him."

    No one really has a role when the ball crosses half court, that's why we ROUTINELY see the PG dribble the clock down to like 11 secs, then one pass and a shot attempt. Our PnRs go no where, our PG rarely ever makes the "hockey assist" where he's orchestrating the offense and is seeing a play developing.

    JR is playing like trash lately, but instead of his minutes getting cut back just a tad, to try to get more production elsewhere -- while still giving JR enough of a chance to play his way out of it... what do we see? JR gets a plethora of minutes that he doesn't need to utilize. That's Melo's fault? If you say so.

    Melo's faults this year are his brain-farts on defense, and his poor 3-PT %. Other than that, he is the team's concept. Especially with this coach.

    If you see something different can you please enlighten us all as to what is is.

    Do so without bringing up asinine points like "STAT voiced his opinion." I couldn't give less of a **** what the opinion is of some dude who's being paid over $20M dollars to go out there and play well once out of every 5 or 6 games, turn the ball over like it's a part of his job description, and then whine about the ball not moving when he gets it on the lower wing and his options seem to be: turnover, or shot attempt.

    I want Melo to stay and org. build something around him. But to be honest, if I were him, I'd be outta here. The front owner is stupid, the front office is full of idiots and yes-men, and the fans.... lol.

    I would not called Melo's defensive mistakes " Brain Farts " that insinuates that this is a random........I think its clear Melo as a defensive player is weak and picks and chooses when he will step up.......If you are a max contract guy that a team will build around then you should not have defensive lapses. Defense is 50% of the game and lapses are not accepted.

    As for JR I said it and will say it again the we should have never signed him.........But with that said JR''s play is on Woodson. I mean how do you increase a players minutes when he is awful and take it away from other players like Metta, Shumpert and Prigs..................Woodson makes zero sense.........He whines about Defense but plays JR more then any other player in the 2nd half and talk about a horrible defensive player JR fits the build........Why would Shump sit the entire $t
    4th quarter after having his best game in a while.

  3. #18
    Superstar nuckles2k2's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by skisloper
    I would not called Melo's defensive mistakes " Brain Farts " that insinuates that this is a random........I think its clear Melo as a defensive player is weak and picks and chooses when he will step up.......If you are a max contract guy that a team will build around then you should not have defensive lapses. Defense is 50% of the game and lapses are not accepted.

    As for JR I said it and will say it again the we should have never signed him.........But with that said JR''s play is on Woodson. I mean how do you increase a players minutes when he is awful and take it away from other players like Metta, Shumpert and Prigs..................Woodson makes zero sense.........He whines about Defense but plays JR more then any other player in the 2nd half and talk about a horrible defensive player JR fits the build........Why would Shump sit the entire $t
    4th quarter after having his best game in a while.
    Yea, I agree. Melo's defense needs to exist more, and be more consistent. I called them "brain-farts" this year, cause in years past we would see him make absurd fouls on jump shooters, which meant the effort was there but the focus wasn't. Reel that in a little, and he'd be serviceable. But now it's just breakdowns, missed assignments, and not helping when he needs to help.

    You could also raise the question: what if so much wasn't required of him in Woodson's "hero ball" offense. Not making an excuse, but like I said several times, Woody's offense is give the ball to the best player, ISO him on the wing, and play off of him. I think if the ball moved in an actual scheme and the majority of Melo's shots didn't always come off of his being 1-on-2, or 1-on-3, he might have more energy to expend on defense.

    Remember in D,Antoni's system where the majority of the sets were the high PnR between the 1 and 5, that's when we saw Melo try more on defense, just not in a very intelligent way. With the ball swinging round the perimeter early last year, Melo was a man on a mission on defense. Blocks at the rim, great rotations, diving into the stands for loose balls, etc. Once the 3s stopped falling, and it was time for Woody's "hero/Iso ball" again, the D wore down again.

    Just an observation. Maybe other folks see it differently, but either way.. I'd rather it if Melo were a two-way player. But he is what he is, and we have him on the team. I'd rather keep that kind of talent, than lose it with no guarantee of being able to replace it (especially with our draft pick situation.)


    The Woody and Felton and JR situation is just uncomfortable. It's almost as if they have some dirt on him or something. It makes absolutely no sense.

    <-------------------------- EDIT --------------------------->

    Just looked it up, and Melo is playing 40.4 mins per game this year.

    LBJ is playing 35.5 mpg

    Paul George is playing 36.2 mpg

    PG is averaging 23 points on 47% shooting with 3.4 assists and 6.1 rebounds. 17.9 field goal attempts per game.

    Melo is averaging 26 points on 42% shooting with 2.5 assists and 9.9 rebounds. 22.2 field goal attempts per game.

    Melo's minutes and field goal attempts can EASILY be regulated with a more comprehensive coach, and plan.
    Last edited by nuckles2k2; Dec 02, 2013 at 06:49.

  4. #19
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    Originally Posted by nuckles2k2
    Yea, I agree. Melo's defense needs to exist more, and be more consistent. I called them "brain-farts" this year, cause in years past we would see him make absurd fouls on jump shooters, which meant the effort was there but the focus wasn't. Reel that in a little, and he'd be serviceable. But now it's just breakdowns, missed assignments, and not helping when he needs to help.

    You could also raise the question: what if so much wasn't required of him in Woodson's "hero ball" offense. Not making an excuse, but like I said several times, Woody's offense is give the ball to the best player, ISO him on the wing, and play off of him. I think if the ball moved in an actual scheme and the majority of Melo's shots didn't always come off of his being 1-on-2, or 1-on-3, he might have more energy to expend on defense.

    Remember in D,Antoni's system where the majority of the sets were the high PnR between the 1 and 5, that's when we saw Melo try more on defense, just not in a very intelligent way. With the ball swinging round the perimeter early last year, Melo was a man on a mission on defense. Blocks at the rim, great rotations, diving into the stands for loose balls, etc. Once the 3s stopped falling, and it was time for Woody's "hero/Iso ball" again, the D wore down again.

    Just an observation. Maybe other folks see it differently, but either way.. I'd rather it if Melo were a two-way player. But he is what he is, and we have him on the team. I'd rather keep that kind of talent, than lose it with no guarantee of being able to replace it (especially with our draft pick situation.)


    The Woody and Felton and JR situation is just uncomfortable. It's almost as if they have some dirt on him or something. It makes absolutely no sense.

    <-------------------------- EDIT --------------------------->

    Just looked it up, and Melo is playing 40.4 mins per game this year.

    LBJ is playing 35.5 mpg

    Paul George is playing 36.2 mpg

    PG is averaging 23 points on 47% shooting with 3.4 assists and 6.1 rebounds. 17.9 field goal attempts per game.

    Melo is averaging 26 points on 42% shooting with 2.5 assists and 9.9 rebounds. 22.2 field goal attempts per game.

    Melo's minutes and field goal attempts can EASILY be regulated with a more comprehensive coach, and plan.

    In the End Woody will always elect ISO Melo or Jump shooting JR so then based on your points Melo will never be a defender on this Knicks team with Woody coaching.......Especially in the 4th quarter when no matter what is going on or who is hot Woody elects to go ISO and Melo demands the ball......

    If I hear Woody again that he chooses his line up based on what the other coach puts out there I will puke....I mean how about Woody has a bit of confidence and maybe just maybe the opposing coach adjusts for us....Can you imagine the other teams locker room before a Knicks game......We are so predictable is laughable......

    What Woody has done is now create an unhappy locker room and I am sure certain players have lost respect for him........

    A non-rested JR is not better then a well rested Shump.
    A hobbling Felton in the 4th is not better then a rested defending Pablo
    An exhausted Melo is much better with a 2 minute rest with Metta,,,,

    I mean Woodson is just a MORON.

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    I think Woodson needs to go just based on his undying loyalty to JR Smith...

    JR Smith is one of the worst players in the nba right now and he's logging 30 mins a game.. 33% FG, 29.6% from 3 and a PER of 9.25. Some of the grossest stats i've ever seen from a pro basketball player.

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    I can't believe I'm finally saying it, but after last night's game Woodson needs to go. Shumpert gets into a verbal confrontation with Melo and never sees the court again??? JR Smith hits just about one three the whole fourth quarter....... Something has to change. NOW!!!!

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    Originally Posted by xk3smith
    I can't believe I'm finally saying it, but after last night's game Woodson needs to go. Shumpert gets into a verbal confrontation with Melo and never sees the court again??? JR Smith hits just about one three the whole fourth quarter....... Something has to change. NOW!!!!

    Better yet JR Smith is quoted in the NY Post " Pelicans were scoring at will especially my man. I dont know what I was doing defensively in the 4th quarter "....At least he is honest BUT this is who Woodson played the entire 4th quarter,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
    Shump opened his mouth about a defensive assignment that Melo missed so yes Woody benches him the entire 4th quarter,,,,,,,,,,,
    Felton was hobbling but Woody could not put Prigs in ?

    this is such a joke and the worst part is the fans have to sit by..........

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    Originally Posted by nuckles2k2
    Please identify the team concept for me. The Knicks have been playing like a team with no identity all season.

    They're playing for a head coach who turned Joe Johnson from Phoenix, into ISO-Joe in Atlanta. I've watched Woodson's offensive "scheme" be "give the ball to the best, highest paid player, when he wants it, and play off of him."

    No one really has a role when the ball crosses half court, that's why we ROUTINELY see the PG dribble the clock down to like 11 secs, then one pass and a shot attempt. Our PnRs go no where, our PG rarely ever makes the "hockey assist" where he's orchestrating the offense and is seeing a play developing.

    JR is playing like trash lately, but instead of his minutes getting cut back just a tad, to try to get more production elsewhere -- while still giving JR enough of a chance to play his way out of it... what do we see? JR gets a plethora of minutes that he doesn't need or utilize. That's Melo's fault? If you say so.

    Melo's faults this year are his brain-farts on defense, and his poor 3-PT %. Other than that, he is the team's concept. Especially with this coach.

    If you see something different can you please enlighten us all as to what is is.

    Do so without bringing up asinine points like "STAT voiced his opinion." I couldn't give less of a **** what the opinion is of some dude who's being paid over $20M dollars to go out there and play well once out of every 5 or 6 games, turn the ball over like it's a part of his job description, and then whine about the ball not moving when he gets it on the lower wing and his options seem to be: turnover, or shot attempt.

    I want Melo to stay and org. build something around him. But to be honest, if I were him, I'd be outta here. The owner is stupid, the front office is full of idiots and yes-men, and the fans.... lol.
    Here we go. This is straight from Business Dictionary.com

    Team Concept- A group of ppl with a full set of complementary skills required to complete a task, job, or project
    Team members:
    1) operate with a high degree of interdependence
    2) share authority and responsibility for self-management
    3) are accountable for the collective performance
    4) work toward a common goal and shared rewards

    A team becomes more than just a collection of ppl when a strong sense of mutual commitment creates synergy, thus generating performance greater than the sum of the performance of its individual members.

    Now, i understand we both agree that Woodson is not the one to understand this and has to go asap.
    Do you honestly beleive that Melo understands it or if he does, is willing to do things necessury for his team to be succesfull?
    And dont just dismiss Amares statement, because he is not the player he once was.
    If you read my post carefully, you will notice that i said that Stat is irrelevant now, but he is right about the lack of ball movement. I beleive he reflects the mood and frustration of the whole team.

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    can u all please stop comapring Lebron to MELO Lebron just passing 60% of scoring his game for himself is so easy
    driving dunking no ISO jumpers and 3s

    while MELO is playing like his feet r 1cm is under glass and his scorng is 20% worse than LEbron and it tells all.

  10. #25
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    Originally Posted by nuckles2k2
    Please identify the team concept for me. The Knicks have been playing like a team with no identity all season.

    They're playing for a head coach who turned Joe Johnson from Phoenix, into ISO-Joe in Atlanta. I've watched Woodson's offensive "scheme" be "give the ball to the best, highest paid player, when he wants it, and play off of him."

    No one really has a role when the ball crosses half court, that's why we ROUTINELY see the PG dribble the clock down to like 11 secs, then one pass and a shot attempt. Our PnRs go no where, our PG rarely ever makes the "hockey assist" where he's orchestrating the offense and is seeing a play developing.

    JR is playing like trash lately, but instead of his minutes getting cut back just a tad, to try to get more production elsewhere -- while still giving JR enough of a chance to play his way out of it... what do we see? JR gets a plethora of minutes that he doesn't need or utilize. That's Melo's fault? If you say so.

    Melo's faults this year are his brain-farts on defense, and his poor 3-PT %. Other than that, he is the team's concept. Especially with this coach.

    If you see something different can you please enlighten us all as to what is is.

    Do so without bringing up asinine points like "STAT voiced his opinion." I couldn't give less of a **** what the opinion is of some dude who's being paid over $20M dollars to go out there and play well once out of every 5 or 6 games, turn the ball over like it's a part of his job description, and then whine about the ball not moving when he gets it on the lower wing and his options seem to be: turnover, or shot attempt.

    I want Melo to stay and org. build something around him. But to be honest, if I were him, I'd be outta here. The owner is stupid, the front office is full of idiots and yes-men, and the fans.... lol.
    that's everything you need to know.
    Anything beyond that is pointless.

    Knicks won't build a good team around Melo so the best option is to trade him for value.
    I wish Melo can stay, but it's not good for him or the Knicks.

    What a disaster.

    The first superstar Knicks had since Ewing is now on his way out thanks to Dolan, Mills, Walsh, Woodson and every fat punk that wears a suit and represents the Knicks organization.

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    Originally Posted by metrocard
    that's everything you need to know.
    Anything beyond that is pointless.

    Knicks won't build a good team around Melo so the best option is to trade him for value.
    I wish Melo can stay, but it's not good for him or the Knicks.

    What a disaster.

    The first superstar Knicks had since Ewing is now on his way out thanks to Dolan, Mills, Walsh, Woodson and every fat punk that wears a suit and represents the Knicks organization.
    Melo was not able to do it Denver either.

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    Still confused how Woodson can ever claim he's committed to defense while he has JR and Bargs out there down the stretch and Shump rides the pine.

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    Originally Posted by skisloper
    Melo was not able to do it Denver either.
    This isn't a sentence.

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    Originally Posted by metrocard
    This isn't a sentence.

    it was almost a sentence.........Kind of like Melo on defense.....

    Metro do u really think there is a team out there that will offer Melo close to 30 million a year.

    I think the NBA is changing and a max deal needs to be worth it for every year of that players contract....

    Melo will be 35 earning 30 million ..does that not sound silly to you.......

    Melo is not a team leader and has never been one.....when you have JR saying he wants to be the voice in the locker room one has to wonder where is Melo.....

    I do not blame Melo for that because he is who he is and I am sure gives his best............

    I think you look at Melo and just disregard his flawed defense...........I mean why is that ok ?

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    Originally Posted by skisloper
    it was almost a sentence.........Kind of like Melo on defense.....

    Metro do u really think there is a team out there that will offer Melo close to 30 million a year.

    I think the NBA is changing and a max deal needs to be worth it for every year of that players contract....

    Melo will be 35 earning 30 million ..does that not sound silly to you.......

    Melo is not a team leader and has never been one.....when you have JR saying he wants to be the voice in the locker room one has to wonder where is Melo.....

    I do not blame Melo for that because he is who he is and I am sure gives his best............

    I think you look at Melo and just disregard his flawed defense...........I mean why is that ok ?
    Melo is 29. He'll be 35 in 2019.

    Who's going to give Melo a contract that last until 2019?
    I hope you can answer that one.

    Your opinion on Melo seems more personal than factual, not sure if I can take it seriously.

    Melo's defense isn't bad or good. He's in the same boat as Kevin Durant and Blake Griffin. Guys more focused into offense won't be dominant on the defensive end, ever. Very few exist like Paul George and LeBron. We don't have those guys, so get over it.

    if you think Melo's defense is horrible, then how do you feel about Felton and Amare?

    People need to stop posting like Melo teabagged the girl they want but can't get and start understanding that Knicks need two of the following.

    Melo traded for value (draft picks, role players who can defend and shoot, cap space)

    or

    Good players who fit this team that can replace our holes in Felton, JR Smith, Amare Stoudemire and even Andrea Bargnani who's having a great season but he was never a good fit to begin with.

    Asking Melo to be a leader of one of the weakest rosters in NBA history is a serious case of a depressed mind, the losing has affected you. It has affected me but I'm trying to be strong and seek out realistic aspects. No man can lead this team or get this team to play together and the last person to blame is Carmelo Anthony.

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