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Thread: Iman Shumpert's attitude

  1. #31
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    Originally Posted by Rob Low
    Tyson didn't win DPOY in Dallas. He actually won it playing alongside Melo. He also made his first all star game and won a gold medal playing alongside Melo so try again.
    TC finished 3rd in voting playing with Dirk my bad.


    I stand corrected…... but his recognition from winning a chip with Dirk and anchoring their defense during that run is what garnered more consideration for him being the Top DPOY candidate, the following season. He came to New York with that credibility as he never finished higher than 9th in his career up until that point.

    If you want to attribute his winning it due to playing alongside Melo when Melo missed several games in a shortened lockout season, that's cool. We amnestied Billups and signed TC to a $50mil contract after his season with Dirk, quite frankly because it truly was a career yr(looking at usage rate) for Tyson.

  2. #32
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    Originally Posted by skisloper
    Melo is not supposed to give a 100% on defense since he is our big scoroer on the offensive end.
    This attitude is what is wrong with us.

  3. #33
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    Originally Posted by Lercher
    Ekhm, so you're basically saying it's Bargs' fault Melo's playing lazy ass defense? FYI, on that particular play Bargnani did nothing wrong, he kept his guy in check and he defended the paint.
    I agree 100%! Anderson was not Bargs man. Bargs man was not the 3pt threat.

  4. #34
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    Originally Posted by NicksKnicks
    This attitude is what is wrong with us.
    I agree, but it's a fatal flaw in the way the team plays.

    No other player of Melo's caliber has to shoulder the offensive load alone. LBJ, Durant, Westbrook, PG, Blake, CP3, LMA, Lillard, Steph, hell...even Cousins... they're all either highly talented players on team's where the offensive concepts are geared towards ball movement and body movements off pin downs & screens, or they are the the PG and they run the team.

    Too often the ball is given to Melo with the shot clock running down, and there's no one in position to even set a screen for anyone else. So even if guys were to move, they'd be moving with a defender right in their hip pocket.

    How many times have we seen CP3 cross half court, and dribble the clock out before some lame bail out pass, all the while JJ Reddick is just standing there looking at him?

    Bad example because he's a PG?

    How often do we see LBJ with the ball in his hand and everyone is clearing out the court for him to go 1-on-1, and eventually 1-on-everybody? Not often. We see the floor appropriately spaced for LBJ, and he has options. Sometimes it's a PnR and he comes off the pick hard, forcing help to come, and he'll make that little pocket pass to the big filling space on the lower block once his man vacates and goes to help on LBJ (we saw Birdman living around the rim, and just killing the Pacers and Spurs doing this in the playoffs); or because the court is spaced appropriately as opposed to everyone just standing around while he isolates on the wing, LBJ still has options when he drives, if he drives.

    Or even PG. He receives the ball in the flow of the offensive set. It's not dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, give the ball to Paul.

    So seeing as how there doesn't seem to be a team concept on the offensive end, and it's just give it to Melo and watch him take on the world, I question how much he has in the tank to give on the other end of the court.

    Not making excuses, maybe we can legitimately question his conditioning then.

    But I brought it up before, and I think it's worth repeating. Remember, Melo's bad defense under MDA, or early last year, was far more often a question of playing smart as opposed to effort. I routinely remember him making the silliest fouls closing out on his man, when Woody was only an assistant coach, as opposed to the head man. Melo would switch, and then go flying at someone to contest the shot and foul them. We also remember his effort on D early last season.

    What's the common denominator?

    Under MDA, the offense was constantly high PnR and then maybe Melo got to take a bad shot from the perimeter, but he was never on the wing iso'd up, taking on the whole team; and early last year, the ball was swinging around the perimeter and the team was launching 3s from the opening tip.

    With Woodson now employing his equally as bad, poorly planned....if there is even a god damn plan...Iso offense, that we saw in ATL with Joe Johnson. Melo is the offense when he's on the floor. To a fault. But this is not a new development with Mike.

    There's a reason why he was fired after his 50+ win team was eliminated in the second round in ATL.
    Last edited by nuckles2k2; Dec 04, 2013 at 17:46.

  5. #35
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    Originally Posted by nuckles2k2
    I agree, but it's a fatal flaw in the way the team plays.

    No other player of Melo's caliber has to shoulder the offensive load alone. LBJ, Durant, Westbrook, PG, Blake, CP3, LMA, Lillard, Steph, hell...even Cousins... they're all either highly talented players on team's where the offensive concepts are geared towards ball movement and body movements off pin downs & screens, or they are the the PG and they run the team.

    Too often the ball is given to Melo with the shot clock running down, and there's no one in position to even set a screen for anyone else. So even if guys were to move, they'd be moving with a defender right in their hip pocket.

    How many times have we seen CP3 cross half court, and dribble the clock out before some lame bail out pass, all the while JJ Reddick is just standing there looking at him?

    Bad example because he's a PG?

    How often do we see LBJ with the ball in his hand and everyone is clearing out the court for him to go 1-on-1, and eventually 1-on-everybody? Not often. We see the floor appropriately spaced for LBJ, and he has options. Sometimes it's a PnR and he comes off the pick hard, forcing help to come, and he'll make that little pocket pass to the big filling space on the lower block once his man vacates and goes to help on LBJ (we saw Birdman living around the rim, and just killing the Pacers and Spurs doing this in the playoffs); or because the court is spaced appropriately as opposed to everyone just standing around while he isolates on the wing, LBJ still has options when he drives, if he drives.

    Or even PG. He receives the ball in the flow of the offensive set. It's not dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, give the ball to Paul.

    So seeing as how there doesn't seem to be a team concept on the offensive end, and it's just give it to Melo and watch him take on the world, I question how much he has in the tank to give on the other end of the court.

    Not making excuses, maybe we can legitimately question his conditioning then.

    But I brought it up before, and I think it's worth repeating. Remember, Melo's bad defense under MDA, or early last year, was far more often a question of playing smart as opposed to effort. I routinely remember him making the silliest fouls closing out on his man, when Woody was only an assistant coach, as opposed to the head man. Melo would switch, and then go flying at someone to contest the shot and foul them. We also remember his effort on D early last season.

    What's the common denominator?

    Under MDA, the offense was constantly high PnR and then maybe Melo got to take a bad shot from the perimeter, but he was never on the wing iso'd up, taking on the whole team; and early last year, the ball was swinging around the perimeter and the team was launching 3s from the opening tip.

    With Woodson now employing his equally as bad, poorly planned....if there is even a god damn plan...Iso offense, that we saw in ATL with Joe Johnson. Melo is the offense when he's on the floor. To a fault. But this is not a new development with Mike.

    There's a reason why he was fired after his 50+ win team was eliminated in the second round in ATL.
    Great post.

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    Originally Posted by metrocard
    Great post.

    Metro I cannot believe you agree.....


    There cannot be more of a perfect setting then tomorrow night for the Knicks to break this losing streak and snap back into playing basketball......I like that Melo is saying the Knicks are a laughing stock........No doubt Melo will do all he can tomorrow to win....NOW lets just hope Woodson is not the stubborn Moron he has been .......

    Felton/prigs should split the game period.

  7. #37
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    Originally Posted by NicksKnicks
    This attitude is what is wrong with us.
    IMO the problem is Melo's defensive effort dropped dramatically this season. His opponents PER is [compared to last season] +1.7 when Melo's playing PF and [!!!] +13.9 when Melo's playing his natural position, which is SF. Look at these stats of our starting lineup:

    Opponent's PER:
    Felton: 17.2
    Shumpert: 16.3
    Anthony: 26.7
    Martin: 10.7
    Bargnani: 16.1

    My point is... statistically even STAT is a better defender this year (defensive PER: 23.0).

  8. #38
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    Originally Posted by NY17KNICKS


    Somebody please explain to me why this is Melos fault? he switched with Shumpert and took Holiday instead of leaving him WIDE OPEN. Shumpert then decides to truck Smith instead of doing something intelligent. Bargnani is the only one standing in the middle of nowhere doing nothing.

    Try again.
    Because he probably wasn't supposed to switch but switched due to laziness?

    I was glad to see Shump get on Melo's case, someone has to do it since Woodson clearly ain't doing ****.

    If anything Shumps frustration probably comes from being bitched on all day by Woodson for every little mistake and watching other teammates being left to their own devices. I can understand Woodson might be getting on Shump for motivational purposes but he obviously isn't going about it the right way.

  9. #39
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    With news of Melo possibly wanting to leave us, we absolutely, positively, can't dump Shump, regardless of any perceived attitude issues. I know I'm just pointing out the obvious but Shump and THJ are the closest things we have to a future for this team if Melo walks.

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