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Thread: Shump to Raptors?

  1. #1
    Veteran bigapple's Avatar
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    Trade Icon Shump to Raptors?

    so the story goes

    ICYMI last night, what with the Knicks lighting yet another dumpster fire to heat Madison Square Garden against the Celtics yesterday, Adrian Wojnarowski of Yahoo! broke news of a trade between the Toronto Raptors and the Sacramento Kings, wherein Toronto sent the overpriced Rudy Gay, along with two throw-in players, to Sacramento for Grevis Vazquez, Patrick Patterson, Chuck Hayes and John Salmons. (You might recall that earlier in the season, ESPNís Marc Stein had reported that Sacramento was having internal discussions on whether or not to pursue Knicksí shooting guard Iman Shumpert.)
    Rumor has it that point guard Kyle Lowry might be the next piece to be moved by Toronto General Manager Masai Uriji ó itís been speculated that the Knicks could pursue Lowry, who would be an upgrade over the struggling Raymond Felton. The seven player Gay trade has obviously shifted the landscape, so itís worth wondering how the move might affect the Knicks.
    In acquiring Gay, Sacramento has likely divested itself of any valuable trade pieces going forward. Remember, in late November they acquired Derrick Williams from Minnesota in exchange for Luc Mbah a Moute. Theyíll now build around a core of Gay, DeMarcus Cousins, Derrick Williams and Isaiah Thomas, but the cupboards are pretty barren after that. As to the Knicks, itís hard to see anything left on the Kingsí roster that the Knicks would want and would realistically be able to get, especially for Shumpert. Unless, of course, the Knicks take a hatchet to their foot and do something crazy ó like trade for Travis Outlaw ó you can count Sacramento out as a potential suitor for Shumpert.
    Toronto, on the other hand, is now an intriguing team. Theyíve got a lot of young talent and the always impressive Ujiri Factor. The ex-Denver general manager is a wizard at getting opposing franchises to do what he wants ó heís twice tricked Dolan the Knicks into giving up unnecessary assets for players. Now, by dealing Gay, who most considered absolutely untradeable, Ujiri has rid himself of one of the NBAís worst contracts. Logically, with Andrea Bargnani and Gay gone, Lowry sure seems likely to be the next Raptor domino to fall.
    Lowry makes $6.2M this season, the final year of his contract. From the Knicksí standpoint, there arenít a lot of trade combinations that would allow them to acquire him, and any deal would likely have to include Felton because the salaries must match and New York is over the cap. Trading J.R. Smith would work under the cap, but the Knicks probably donít want to deal him and Ujiri isnít going to lock himself into that kind of long-term contract. The problem with trading Felton, of course, is that most NBA executives wonít ignore the point guardís tenure in Portland. After being traded to the Blazers by the Nuggets, Felton pouted and got fat(ter). He was lousy on the court and a pain in the ass off it. Ray has since made it very clear that he loves playing in New York City. Additionally, Felton is a very average NBA player. Then again, Ujiri is a wizard and heíd probably flip Felton somewhere else for far more than heís worth.
    If we assume that Toronto is willing to take on Felton in a trade, the Knicks have two other assets that may be intriguing tothe Raptors: Iman Shumpert and Tim Hardaway Jr. Felton and Shumpert for Lowry would salary wise, but Felton and Hardaway for Shumpert would require that an additional contract be included.
    As has been reported elsewhere, Shumpert remains the most likely candidate for a trade and he probably has the most trade value of the three weíve discussed. If the Knicks are still intent on trading him, it does seem like they have yet to find a deal they like. All indications are that the Knicks really like Tim Hardaway and want to develop him, which is all well and good, but the Knicks already have the 28-year-old version of Hardaway in Smith. The two guards are eerily similar players, and logic would dictate that Smith should be more expendable than Shumpert. But thatís logic. The Knicks donít do logic.
    It remains to be seen, however, whether or not Toronto would even have interest in these scenarios. Lowry is a good player and his expiring contract is desirable. Heíll have plenty of suitors around the league. Shumpert is a potentially valuable piece for the Knicks, mostly due to their lack of good wing defenders, but heís hardly a blue chipper. His defense hasnít been great this year and heís yet to develop much of an offensive game outside of good spot-up shooting. For teams coveting youth and affordability, though, Iman remains an attractive piece.
    If the Knicks still see themselves as contenders ó they arenít ó then trading for Lowry makes sense. Heís an upgrade over any of their current point guards, especially on defense, and by swapping out Feltonís deal for an expiring, theyíd improve their cap standing in each of the next three off-seasons, including the oh-so-important 2015 free agency period. That said, I truly believe that blowing up the current team and rebuilding for the future is the way for the Knicks to go. Lowry would be an upgrade, but he hardly makes them a contender. Trading Shumpert would be a mistake. New York needs to hoard young talent, not deal it away for short term fixes. Shumpert will be a useful player for a lot of years in this league, even if it isnít with New York. You donít deal young players with upside in exchange for a present-day band-aid. Actually, I should clarify; smart teams donít do things like that.
    The 5-14 Knicks havenít proven themselves to be very smart, though.
    take JR and Felton ASAP LOL

  2. #2
    Super Moderator RunningJumper's Avatar
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    Oh yeah instead of starting Prigioni and having Udrih come off the bench, let's keep starting and finishing games with Felton and trade Shumpert.

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    Superstar Pricey's Avatar
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    Raptors just waived DJ Augustin. He isnt the answer but rather watch him playing the point then Felton

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    Veteran Paul1355's Avatar
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    I have always liked Lowry but I have seen him struggle against the Knicks and get outplayed, however Felton has proved to me that he is not a starting PG and LOwry is an upgrade but not a significant one. Lowry's per is 17 while Felton's is 11 so that is a big difference.

    I would consider this trade....

    And the salaries match...

    3-team trade between Knicks, Raptors and Celtics

    Knicks get: Gerald Wallace, Kris Humphries, Kyle Lowry and Jonas Valacuinus, and maybe 2nd round pick

    Raptors get: Felton and Shumpert

    Celtics get: Amare

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    Originally Posted by Pricey
    Raptors just waived DJ Augustin. He isnt the answer but rather watch him playing the point then Felton
    His speed and passing skills can really help us out, even though he has leveled down from his rookie year. Always been a fan of DJ.


    If Knicks trade Shumpert and don't get someone like Jonas in return, I don't think I can be a fan of this franchise anymore.

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    Originally Posted by Paul1355
    I have always liked Lowry but I have seen him struggle against the Knicks and get outplayed, however Felton has proved to me that he is not a starting PG and LOwry is an upgrade but not a significant one. Lowry's per is 17 while Felton's is 11 so that is a big difference.

    I would consider this trade....

    And the salaries match...

    3-team trade between Knicks, Raptors and Celtics

    Knicks get: Gerald Wallace, Kris Humphries, Kyle Lowry and Jonas Valacuinus, and maybe 2nd round pick

    Raptors get: Felton and Shumpert

    Celtics get: Amare
    Lowry is a better PG than Felton and Jonas is a better prospect than Shumpert...why would Raptors do that?

    lol maybe 2nd round pick?

    Do you realize Amare Stoudemire has -92 value as an NBA player, not even the Celtics would take him for free. Giving up Humphries and Wallace for Amare is suicide for Boston.

    Humphries is Boston's highest contract this year and it expires in 2014. Amare expires in 2015....why would Boston give up capspace for trash??

  7. #7
    Quiet Storm New New York's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Pricey
    Raptors just waived DJ Augustin. He isnt the answer but rather watch him playing the point then Felton
    He's better than Beno...I like the proposition of adding him...see if we can dump Beno for a 2nd rounder like we did Ronnie Brewer and sign DJ

    Felton/Pablo/DJ

    Look Felton is our Starting PG for better or worst...I actually like Pablo off the bench because when Melo is off the floor then the ball moves and Pablo is the best facilitator plus his spark is needed

    Now I'd honestly love it if we finished games with Pablo on the floor rather than Ray but Woody won't do that

  8. #8
    Quiet Storm New New York's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by metrocard
    Lowry is a better PG than Felton and Jonas is a better prospect than Shumpert...why would Raptors do that?

    lol maybe 2nd round pick?

    Do you realize Amare Stoudemire has -92 value as an NBA player, not even the Celtics would take him for free. Giving up Humphries and Wallace for Amare is suicide for Boston.

    Humphries is Boston's highest contract this year and it expires in 2014. Amare expires in 2015....why would Boston give up capspace for trash??
    take the Toronto deal out of the equation and lets just talk the Boston move


    not that I would pull the trigger on this deal because having Wallace on the books in a critical cap year would be almost as bad as having Curry on the books in 2010

    But Boston would do a deal that shed Humphries and Wallace even if it meant taking on Stat...not an opinion, for a fact! read below[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    Boston would not be looking for a savior in Stat its all about cap (which if this trade went down it would drop them down to 19 million dollars owed in 2015) this would be like us trading for Larry Hughes or Al Harrington in 2008.

    Again not at all in favor of such a move, yet its not as far fetched as you are making it seem...and while Humphries has the highest valued contract this year Wallace is owed way more over the course of the next 3 and again they would rather pay that in one less year that stretching it out over 3 more to answer your question about why would Boston do it.

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    But it seems to me beno is always do the right thing on the floor

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    Nein, Mann! Lercher's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by RunningJumper
    Oh yeah instead of starting Prigioni and having Udrih come off the bench, let's keep starting and finishing games with Felton and trade Shumpert.
    RJ, dunno if you're aware of it, but Prigs turned 36 last May. He's now thirty freaking six years old, he ain't gonna ball for 30+ min. And Udrih? Are we serious here? In 12 out of 13 games he played for the Knicks he looked old, slow and had basically no idea what to do with the damn ball. He isn't even worth the vet min money he's making. Lowry IMO looks like a perfect solution considering our limited options, but I wouldn't trade Shump for him. Either way I find it hilarious how quickly folks forget how much certain players suck. Everyone says "play Udrih!" > after a while Woody plays Udrih > Udrih looks freaking terrible > "Cut Udrih!" says everyone > Udrih goes DNP > after another 3-4 games everyone says "play Udrih!"... as if he got 10 years younger overnight or something.

  11. #11
    Member bluechox2's Avatar
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    to me, lowry can be just as bad as felton if brought here due to this ****y system we run

  12. #12
    Veteran bigapple's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Paul1355
    I have always liked Lowry but I have seen him struggle against the Knicks and get outplayed, however Felton has proved to me that he is not a starting PG and LOwry is an upgrade but not a significant one. Lowry's per is 17 while Felton's is 11 so that is a big difference.

    I would consider this trade....

    And the salaries match...

    3-team trade between Knicks, Raptors and Celtics

    Knicks get: Gerald Wallace, Kris Humphries, Kyle Lowry and Jonas Valacuinus, and maybe 2nd round pick

    Raptors get: Felton and Shumpert

    Celtics get: Amare
    1st contract Wallace and Humphries is till 2016 as i rememeber + i dont wana Kardashian in NY.
    2nd i dont wana both of them in NY too

    i just wana Felton and JR out from NY and Murry with Prigion will take their time.

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    Originally Posted by Lercher
    RJ, dunno if you're aware of it, but Prigs turned 36 last May. He's now thirty freaking six years old, he ain't gonna ball for 30+ min. And Udrih? Are we serious here? In 12 out of 13 games he played for the Knicks he looked old, slow and had basically no idea what to do with the damn ball. He isn't even worth the vet min money he's making. Lowry IMO looks like a perfect solution considering our limited options, but I wouldn't trade Shump for him. Either way I find it hilarious how quickly folks forget how much certain players suck. Everyone says "play Udrih!" > after a while Woody plays Udrih > Udrih looks freaking terrible > "Cut Udrih!" says everyone > Udrih goes DNP > after another 3-4 games everyone says "play Udrih!"... as if he got 10 years younger overnight or something.

    Feltons best year was playing him and Stat......assuming no trades since we have zero to trade to make us any better,,,,,,,,U are right Prigs is no younger but for 22 minutes a games he would be fine....


    Play Prigs with the first unit and play Felton with Stat and jr in the 2nd unit....
    Woody should be running 2 teams as its clear one team is not getting it done...
    whats the point of getting a so0so PG when melo and JR will continue to bring up the ball...

  14. #14
    Veteran bigapple's Avatar
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    Dj will sign with Bulls

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    Veteran Paul1355's Avatar
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    id trade shump for peanuts at this point...dude is terrible...he is a headcase and thinks he is better than he is. ****iness is a good thing....if u are good enough to back up the attitude.

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