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Thread: New York Knicks vs Washington Wizards 12/16/2013 7:30PM

  1. #151
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    Originally Posted by 3G4G
    Pau and Kaman pretty much recently called out Mike D'Antoni. It actually happens quite often in this league.
    They complained about the way they were being used. So did Gortat.

    The media and the fans can connect the dots. Melo said that Woody took the blame, so he's not gonna speak anymore on that.

    But other than that, I'm not sure what he could have said that wouldn't have people thinking that it's him flexing his muscles cause Dolan has him running the team.

    A timeout should have been called, either on the floor, or by the coach. If the players don't call it...why weren't they following the coach's directions to do so. If the players aren't doing it, why isn't the coach doing it?

    The coach then says "that's on me. I should have been ready and called it after the made shot."

    Melo says Woody took the blame, that's that. He has no problem with him... and suddenly folks have Melo making personnel decisions...

    I'm still not quite there yet.

    I would love to know what the hell Melo was doing walking the ball up like he wasn't quite sure what was going on. Then taking a shot 1-on-3. But the part about Dolan having him control the team because he essentially DIDN'T SAY "my coach is a bald idiot, you guys see that confused stare on his face all fuggin game."

    But the point about Pau, Kaman, and I'll throw in Gortat, recently calling out the coach indirectly...see my point about Melo being so politically correct all the time that he doesn't really publicly say anything.

    And at this point, I'm not sure if I blame him. I know if I was gonna be characterized as "selfish" cause I'm doing and saying the same things as my peers? I would say a whole lot of nothing too. Why not?


    <----------- EDIT ------------->

    Actually, recently on a post-game show on MSG. Woodson sat right in front of the media and said "sometimes I call those plays for Melo on the wing, at the end of games. If someone is going to take that shot, I feel pretty comfortable with him taking it."

    And in the same post game show, when interviewed in the locker room, Melo said "my teammates have to know I trust them too. I mean...I'm glad they have that faith in me to take them shots, but they gotta know I have faith in them too. I can't take those shots all the time."

    I'd say that's Melo going a bit against the grain of what his coach said. It's not as direct as "I don't like how I'm being used. You see it out there." like Pau did.

    But once again, that political correctness is tiresome.
    Last edited by nuckles2k2; Dec 17, 2013 at 15:17.

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    Originally Posted by metrocard
    lol mafra, please don't group Melo with JR. Melo has done everything he can do, playing 40 minutes every night, rebounding and scores 26 ppg for us every night.
    Metro, if we were winning games, i would agree with you. Great individual statistical numbers only look good if your team is winning. But ufortunately for Melo, there are other things that are necessury for a team game. I will give you one. Making your teammates better. I know, i know, you will say he is playing with scrubs, they cant play. They can, trust me, we saw good games out of everyone this season.
    I bet, if Melo was unselfish, we would be winning more games, guaranteed.
    Even he said it himself not too long ago "Me, scoring 25-30 points isnt working, so i need to try something else"
    He did, for one game. Then he went back to his own iso, selfish, scoring title chasing bs.

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  4. #154
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    Originally Posted by groundpilot
    Metro, if we were winning games, i would agree with you. Great individual statistical numbers only look good if your team is winning. But ufortunately for Melo, there are other things that are necessury for a team game. I will give you one. Making your teammates better. I know, i know, you will say he is playing with scrubs, they cant play. They can, trust me, we saw good games out of everyone this season.
    I bet, if Melo was unselfish, we would be winning more games, guaranteed.
    Even he said it himself not too long ago "Me, scoring 25-30 points isnt working, so i need to try something else"
    He did, for one game. Then he went back to his own iso, selfish, scoring title chasing bs.
    lmao @ you.

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    Originally Posted by groundpilot
    Metro, if we were winning games, i would agree with you. Great individual statistical numbers only look good if your team is winning. But ufortunately for Melo, there are other things that are necessury for a team game. I will give you one. Making your teammates better. I know, i know, you will say he is playing with scrubs, they cant play. They can, trust me, we saw good games out of everyone this season.
    I bet, if Melo was unselfish, we would be winning more games, guaranteed.
    Even he said it himself not too long ago "Me, scoring 25-30 points isnt working, so i need to try something else"
    He did, for one game. Then he went back to his own iso, selfish, scoring title chasing bs.
    It doesn't matter if we're winning or losing, Melo is doing everything he can do for the team. If you refuse to recognize that then you're not thinking this our clearly.

    Making teammates better...do you realize how much attention Melo gets by the defenses? He gets hacked, doubled, foul, Melo does pass it off to an open guy...but that open guy is Felton who shoots 27% from 3ptland this season and JR Smith who shoots 33% FG and 33% 3pt.

    I'm sorry to tell you this but I say this with love.

    Shut up.

    Who the hell are JR Smith and Felton that Melo has to make them better? How much better can Felton and Smith get? We've seen their prime, we've seen them slump. Theres nothing special about these guards and aren't even top 25 ranked in their positions.

    You're acting like Carmelo Anthony has a John Wall and Bradley Beal back court and it's his responsibility to make their he's getting the best out of his teammates.

    These fans knew that this superstar who's primary strength is scoring and they knew (I god damn hope they known this that would be his primary strength) that he wasn't a LeBron or Nash type player who is pass first score second. Do you see the failed retarded logic with these folks?

    Do you guy Dirk Nowitzki or hell even Paul George who's playing out of his mind can improve Raymond Felton's short comings as a PG? JR Smith's inability to take his profession seriously?

    Theres only about 5 guys in this league who can slightly make the Knicks better but we will still be a sub .500 team.

    Ground, I challenge you to name guys on this roster that are championship caliber players....World Peace isn't even playing significant minutes because Woodson is overplaying Melo minutes.

    Ground is the only guy in this forum who can't see Melo is playing a lot of minutes every night and wants Melo to be improving guys inside and out, on offense and defense. Get real with yourself.

    Melo is actually one of the few guys on this team who passes the ball to Amare...Melo's job is to score, if you call it selfish then you're an a s s.


    It's funny man.
    We're 3rd worst in the East.
    The only bright spots on this team are Tim Hardway Jr, Iman Shumpert, Metta World Peace and by far our best player Carmelo Anthony.

    People with these really simple minds can't understand how awful Felton, Smith and having no true big man on this team has hurt us, so they shift the blame to Melo, for illogical reasons. (He doesn't make Felton or Smith better, he can't play with Amare, he doesn't play defense even leading the team in defensive rebounding and having 4 block shots in this team)

    Just disgusting state for Knick fans right now.

    I know Kiyaman can get annoying with the Melo hate, but this is really disturbing.

    I'd love to see what a line up of Felton/Smith/Shumpert/Bargnani/Stoudimire would do because apparently those guys are unselfish and make each other better players.

    Just waive Melo off the team if you want to go with groundpilot's logic,

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    Originally Posted by groundpilot
    Metro, if we were winning games, i would agree with you. Great individual statistical numbers only look good if your team is winning. But ufortunately for Melo, there are other things that are necessury for a team game. I will give you one. Making your teammates better. I know, i know, you will say he is playing with scrubs, they cant play. They can, trust me, we saw good games out of everyone this season.
    I bet, if Melo was unselfish, we would be winning more games, guaranteed.
    Even he said it himself not too long ago "Me, scoring 25-30 points isnt working, so i need to try something else"
    He did, for one game. Then he went back to his own iso, selfish, scoring title chasing bs.
    If Melo wasnt in every single lineup we put out on the court this season making teammates play to his beat n tempo, I would agree with Metro. But like u said, having great individual stats in 17-7 record means something, but in 7-17 record means LOSERS.


    24 games from 3-13 to 7-17, Woodson has never mention the word of practice, having a extra practice, or doing something new in practice. Yet, every lineup we put on the court look like they never practice. Melo been doing the same ole move over over over since he first arrive for 40 minutes of every game.
    Why Woodson didnt call time-out bc Melo had Beno inbound the ball to him to take the last shot.

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    Originally Posted by Kiyaman
    If Melo wasnt in every single lineup we put out on the court this season making teammates play to his beat n tempo, I would agree with Metro. But like u said, having great individual stats in 17-7 record means something, but in 7-17 record means LOSERS.


    24 games from 3-13 to 7-17, Woodson has never mention the word of practice, having a extra practice, or doing something new in practice. Yet, every lineup we put on the court look like they never practice. Melo been doing the same ole move over over over since he first arrive for 40 minutes of every game.
    Why Woodson didnt call time-out bc Melo had Beno inbound the ball to him to take the last shot.
    Kiya, okay...

    explain to me what do you want besides Melo doing the same move over and over because apparently Melo has become "one dimensional" to you.


    Who gets the most shot attempts on this team?
    How many minutes would you play Melo?

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    Originally Posted by metrocard
    Kiya, okay...

    explain to me what do you want besides Melo doing the same move over and over because apparently Melo has become "one dimensional" to you.
    Who gets the most shot attempts on this team?
    How many minutes would you play Melo?
    Melo is a one dimensional player .. recall Starbury 40 minutes with no brains, and no energy to score or play defense in the 4th quarter. Starbury individual performance is the same as Melo's Ballhoggin individual performance.
    Both so-call stars played 40 minutes a game, and didnt have chemistry with any Knicks teammate for 3 straight seasons. RED-FLAG

    It's really not about how many shots Melo takes .. its about Melo wanting a touch of the ball on every offensive-possession, he never move without the ball, he holds the ball, he shoots the ball with 2 or 3 defenders on him, his consistent ballhoggin make teammates shoot the ball when 18 seconds are left on the shot clock.
    u tell me if Melo is a good offensive-teammate having the above FLAWS???

    Melo does not make any of his teammates better, so why is he given a 40 minute pass every game?
    Melo is a 30 minute high scoring player, bc Melo show no hustle on defense, and no hustle in pushing the ball to score before a oponent could get back on defense .. now thats Marbury all over again. RED-FLAG

    The Denver Nuggets main investments every season with Melo were getting the team a PG that will keep the ball out of Melo's hands who keep thinking he is a "Point-Foward". The Nuggets went through PG's "Miller, Carter, AI, Billups, and Ty Lawson". When Billups kept the ball out of Melo hands from playing the point, Melo wanted out of the organization. Making PG Ty Lawson happy to lead a Meloless Nuggets team to a better winning season than the Knicks for 3 going on 4 straight seasons.
    The clarity of PG-Billups amnesty, not resigning PG-Jeremy Lin all leads to ISO-Melo playing point-foward anytime he feels like it. RED FLAG.

    u never see Melo sitting on the bench discussing anything with any of the coaching-staff.
    This game showed why we needed the "Old-Heads" lastseason, and why we need Billups or Kidd on the court at crunch-time having a bad-decision-making ISO-Melo in the lineup.

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    Originally Posted by nuckles2k2
    They complained about the way they were being used. So did Gortat.

    The media and the fans can connect the dots. Melo said that Woody took the blame, so he's not gonna speak anymore on that.

    But other than that, I'm not sure what he could have said that wouldn't have people thinking that it's him flexing his muscles cause Dolan has him running the team.

    A timeout should have been called, either on the floor, or by the coach. If the players don't call it...why weren't they following the coach's directions to do so. If the players aren't doing it, why isn't the coach doing it?

    The coach then says "that's on me. I should have been ready and called it after the made shot."

    Melo says Woody took the blame, that's that. He has no problem with him... and suddenly folks have Melo making personnel decisions...

    I'm still not quite there yet.

    I would love to know what the hell Melo was doing walking the ball up like he wasn't quite sure what was going on. Then taking a shot 1-on-3. But the part about Dolan having him control the team because he essentially DIDN'T SAY "my coach is a bald idiot, you guys see that confused stare on his face all fuggin game."

    But the point about Pau, Kaman, and I'll throw in Gortat, recently calling out the coach indirectly...see my point about Melo being so politically correct all the time that he doesn't really publicly say anything.

    And at this point, I'm not sure if I blame him. I know if I was gonna be characterized as "selfish" cause I'm doing and saying the same things as my peers? I would say a whole lot of nothing too. Why not?


    <----------- EDIT ------------->

    Actually, recently on a post-game show on MSG. Woodson sat right in front of the media and said "sometimes I call those plays for Melo on the wing, at the end of games. If someone is going to take that shot, I feel pretty comfortable with him taking it."

    And in the same post game show, when interviewed in the locker room, Melo said "my teammates have to know I trust them too. I mean...I'm glad they have that faith in me to take them shots, but they gotta know I have faith in them too. I can't take those shots all the time."

    I'd say that's Melo going a bit against the grain of what his coach said. It's not as direct as "I don't like how I'm being used. You see it out there." like Pau did.

    But once again, that political correctness is tiresome.

    You're playing a game of semantics here. If a player says they wouldn't have signed with an organization based on how they're being used and specifically point to the system that's about as big an indictment on the coach as it can get. Also Pau held himself out of the first part of last year with a mysterious knee injury after having some exchanges in the media with D'Antoni.

    This year he went as far to say….."Mike Is All Over The Place" with what he says in rebuttal to D'Antoni questioning his effort and play.


    Melo has come very close in his career questioning coaching. I know he threw Bizdelik under the bus early in his career. I'll have to search to see if I can find something. Overall Melo does try to hide behind pre-cut fabric.

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    Originally Posted by nuckles2k2
    They complained about the way they were being used. So did Gortat.

    The media and the fans can connect the dots. Melo said that Woody took the blame, so he's not gonna speak anymore on that.

    But other than that, I'm not sure what he could have said that wouldn't have people thinking that it's him flexing his muscles cause Dolan has him running the team.

    A timeout should have been called, either on the floor, or by the coach. If the players don't call it...why weren't they following the coach's directions to do so. If the players aren't doing it, why isn't the coach doing it?

    The coach then says "that's on me. I should have been ready and called it after the made shot."

    Melo says Woody took the blame, that's that. He has no problem with him... and suddenly folks have Melo making personnel decisions...

    I'm still not quite there yet.

    I would love to know what the hell Melo was doing walking the ball up like he wasn't quite sure what was going on. Then taking a shot 1-on-3. But the part about Dolan having him control the team because he essentially DIDN'T SAY "my coach is a bald idiot, you guys see that confused stare on his face all fuggin game."

    But the point about Pau, Kaman, and I'll throw in Gortat, recently calling out the coach indirectly...see my point about Melo being so politically correct all the time that he doesn't really publicly say anything.

    And at this point, I'm not sure if I blame him. I know if I was gonna be characterized as "selfish" cause I'm doing and saying the same things as my peers? I would say a whole lot of nothing too. Why not?


    <----------- EDIT ------------->

    Actually, recently on a post-game show on MSG. Woodson sat right in front of the media and said "sometimes I call those plays for Melo on the wing, at the end of games. If someone is going to take that shot, I feel pretty comfortable with him taking it."

    And in the same post game show, when interviewed in the locker room, Melo said "my teammates have to know I trust them too. I mean...I'm glad they have that faith in me to take them shots, but they gotta know I have faith in them too. I can't take those shots all the time."

    I'd say that's Melo going a bit against the grain of what his coach said. It's not as direct as "I don't like how I'm being used. You see it out there." like Pau did.

    But once again, that political correctness is tiresome.
    u r mentioning teams where the headcoach is in control of the game.
    Mike Woodson, just like HC Karl has no control over what ISO-Melo want to do, when Melo want to do it.
    u seen the aftermath of what happen to HC Karl when he let Chauncey Billups lead the Nuggets team to go to the WCF.
    The next season HC Karl was put on the season injury list, his job was given to the assistant coach.
    Meta World Peace gives u a little of everything in his hustle performance, Woodson is the first coach in the NBA to DNP MWP.

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    Originally Posted by Kiyaman
    u r mentioning teams where the headcoach is in control of the game.
    Mike Woodson, just like HC Karl has no control over what ISO-Melo want to do, when Melo want to do it.
    u seen the aftermath of what happen to HC Karl when he let Chauncey Billups lead the Nuggets team to go to the WCF.
    The next season HC Karl was put on the season injury list, his job was given to the assistant coach.
    Meta World Peace gives u a little of everything in his hustle performance, Woodson is the first coach in the NBA to DNP MWP.
    You mean when George Karl was battling throat and neck cancer?

    You keep ignoring anything that'll debunk your arguments Kiya.

    You keep calling Melo "ISO-Melo" but I watched Woodson say he calls those isolation plays for Melo, and then in the same post game interview, in the locker room...Melo said he wants his teammates to understand that he has faith in them to take shots too. He said he can't do it alone.

    So if we see him pass out of double teams, until his teammates aren't hitting anything, then he takes it on himself to carry the weight of the team...how is that "selfish" as you characterize it? Wouldn't it be equally as selfish to continue putting the burden on dudes who are clearly not getting it done?

    Whether you wanna say Melo is a Batman who needs a Robin, or a Robin who needs a Batman, either way...the puzzle isn't complete. He doesn't have the complementary help he needs. And therefor he's trying to do it all by himself.

    Call Melo out for his decision making.

    For his conditioning (even tho he's almost playing 40 mins a game as a forward, that's a bit much)

    For his lack of leadership on the court in the toughest times.

    But this childish "I'm gonna make **** up, and sound half-witted while I do so" **** is a little old Kiya.

    Originally Posted by Kiyaman
    The next season HC Karl was put on the season injury list, his job was given to the assistant coach.
    The man had neck and throat cancer. He sounded horrible, and looked tired and withered after the chemotherapy.

    Surely you're not serious. Can't be.

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    Originally Posted by 3G4G
    You're playing a game of semantics here. If a player says they wouldn't have signed with an organization based on how they're being used and specifically point to the system that's about as big an indictment on the coach as it can get. Also Pau held himself out of the first part of last year with a mysterious knee injury after having some exchanges in the media with D'Antoni.

    This year he went as far to say….."Mike Is All Over The Place" with what he says in rebuttal to D'Antoni questioning his effort and play.


    Melo has come very close in his career questioning coaching. I know he threw Bizdelik under the bus early in his career. I'll have to search to see if I can find something. Overall Melo does try to hide behind pre-cut fabric.
    We don't disagree.

    But still, my main point was that I didn't understand why folks were looking for Melo to say the opposite of "Woody's job is safe" when questioned "Is Woody's job safe?"

    You're not gonna find a star player who says "nope, he's in trouble" when questioned about his coach, especially to the media. It doesn't happen.

    Then you told me that players question their coaches in the media all the time, and used examples of indirect finger pointing...

    I said players will complain about the way they're being used and we, the public & media, can connect the dots.

    I dunno if I'd call Pau responding to a backhanded MDA comment as calling out his coach, as much as saying "hold up, wait.." and defending himself.

    I don't remember what Melo said about Bzdelik, but if he came out and said something to the effect of "yep, coach messed up...I don't even know what he's doing here." 9 years ago, then I guess I stand corrected.

    I still think it's pretty ridiculous for anyone to expect any player to say "yes, coach messed up, and his job is on the line" to anyone in a public venue; and that was my main point.

    Woody didn't use Melo's name, or demean him in any way. So when Melo is asked a potentially damaging question in an interview about Woody, I don't expect to hear anything demeaning. But apparently other folks did, and then chastised Melo for it, and I was like.. HUH?

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    Originally Posted by nuckles2k2
    You mean when George Karl was battling throat and neck cancer?

    You keep ignoring anything that'll debunk your arguments Kiya.

    You keep calling Melo "ISO-Melo" but I watched Woodson say he calls those isolation plays for Melo, and then in the same post game interview, in the locker room...Melo said he wants his teammates to understand that he has faith in them to take shots too. He said he can't do it alone.

    So if we see him pass out of double teams, until his teammates aren't hitting anything, then he takes it on himself to carry the weight of the team...how is that "selfish" as you characterize it? Wouldn't it be equally as selfish to continue putting the burden on dudes who are clearly not getting it done?

    Whether you wanna say Melo is a Batman who needs a Robin, or a Robin who needs a Batman, either way...the puzzle isn't complete. He doesn't have the complementary help he needs. And therefor he's trying to do it all by himself.

    Call Melo out for his decision making.

    For his conditioning (even tho he's almost playing 40 mins a game as a forward, that's a bit much)

    For his lack of leadership on the court in the toughest times.

    But this childish "I'm gonna make **** up, and sound half-witted while I do so" **** is a little old Kiya.



    The man had neck and throat cancer. He sounded horrible, and looked tired and withered after the chemotherapy.

    Surely you're not serious. Can't be.
    Yeah, u right when it comes to HC Karl .. Karl & player/coach Billup's lead Melo to a season where Melo average 22 pts per game (a big drop in Melo's scoring goal).
    The next season with HC Karl out with injury .. Melo average 28 pts per game (increasing his career 25 pt average).
    The season after that HC Karl was back, and Melo wasted no time at the start of November to demand to b traded bc he wasnt going to resign.

    The only sport comentators/analyst that doesnt mention our teams stand-still movement everytime ISO-Melo got the ball are the ones that work for Dolan.
    The sport commentators on NBA TV, TNT, and ESPN has been consistently mentioning our team just stand-still everytime ISO-Melo have the ball the past 3 seasons.

    If Lebron or D.Wade wouldve did what Melo did in the final 6 seconds of the game, do u think sports comentators, and the press would be blaming coach Spoe ???

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    Originally Posted by Kiyaman
    Melo is a one dimensional player .. recall Starbury 40 minutes with no brains, and no energy to score or play defense in the 4th quarter. Starbury individual performance is the same as Melo's Ballhoggin individual performance.
    Both so-call stars played 40 minutes a game, and didnt have chemistry with any Knicks teammate for 3 straight seasons. RED-FLAG

    It's really not about how many shots Melo takes .. its about Melo wanting a touch of the ball on every offensive-possession, he never move without the ball, he holds the ball, he shoots the ball with 2 or 3 defenders on him, his consistent ballhoggin make teammates shoot the ball when 18 seconds are left on the shot clock.
    u tell me if Melo is a good offensive-teammate having the above FLAWS???

    Melo does not make any of his teammates better, so why is he given a 40 minute pass every game?
    Melo is a 30 minute high scoring player, bc Melo show no hustle on defense, and no hustle in pushing the ball to score before a oponent could get back on defense .. now thats Marbury all over again. RED-FLAG

    The Denver Nuggets main investments every season with Melo were getting the team a PG that will keep the ball out of Melo's hands who keep thinking he is a "Point-Foward". The Nuggets went through PG's "Miller, Carter, AI, Billups, and Ty Lawson". When Billups kept the ball out of Melo hands from playing the point, Melo wanted out of the organization. Making PG Ty Lawson happy to lead a Meloless Nuggets team to a better winning season than the Knicks for 3 going on 4 straight seasons.
    The clarity of PG-Billups amnesty, not resigning PG-Jeremy Lin all leads to ISO-Melo playing point-foward anytime he feels like it. RED FLAG.

    u never see Melo sitting on the bench discussing anything with any of the coaching-staff.
    This game showed why we needed the "Old-Heads" lastseason, and why we need Billups or Kidd on the court at crunch-time having a bad-decision-making ISO-Melo in the lineup.
    wow................

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