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Thread: NYK won`t make the playoffs

  1. #16
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    Originally Posted by a knick fan
    its not that marbury is a bad player, but he's not someone who can carry his team on his back and lead them to victory, like kobe, kg, duncan, iverson, etc can. and its not really that i dont like marbury, its that i think the team needs change, and if we could package him with some overpaid deteriorating scrubs, then its worth it to trade him. id like to keep him, but he has good trade value and we could get a lot back in return for him.
    You cant put Kobe in that category, This is now his team. Before it was Shaq. So far he is not fairing that well. Iverson had one good year, and only got past the first round once after that. KG's team is falling apart right now. Is J-Kidd is struggling also - be cause his team is unhealthy an broken apart. You need a team man. Evryone is a part of the puzzle. He is a major piece he just needs to be surrounded better. Marbury knows how to make his teammates better, but Marbury also needs to be in a position to do so.
    Remember when Kidd got traded for Marbury, the Suns wanted to get rid of kidd b/c he couldnt score enough. He needs better surroundings.

  2. #17
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    its not that i dont like marbury. he is deserving of his contract. but like you said, its not just one guy, it has to be a whole team to win ball games. but theres too many knicks who DON'T deserve their contracts and clog up the payroll and hinder this teams chances of getting better. i would love to keep marbury and just trade away hardaway, t thomas, houston, norris, etc. But nobody would take them if Marbury wasn't included. I guess we could just be patient and do nothing and wait till this offseason to use t thomas and hardaway's expiring contracts to sign young, talented free agents, but i just am sick of watching the knicks win a game and then lose the next and have nothing happen in terms of trades or any kind of change to make me feel like things are going to get better. i cant even watch them play anymore and watch them lose to the BULLS (yeah i know they're on a winning streak).

  3. #18
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    I skimmed through the posts......

    Look no one be baggin' on Sweetney and Marbury. Second the old Spree is done, I don't want him back now.....

    Secondly, I still have faith in them, thier 1st in the Atlantic, one good run and they pull away, then they have to step it up in the playoffs......

  4. #19
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    kudos to Blumatic, good post.

    I thinking trading marbury here isnt the right idea. in NY you need big names and they love hometown boys. He fits that bill aswell as being a good player. Plus you cant put the blame on him. Not one person carries a team, if that was the case Malone have won a championship, and so would Iverson, KG, Kidd. and Marino would of won a superbowl ring.

    JALEN ROSE....i say make that trade, trade Penny for Rose. Okay so yes we get a big contract for two more years. BUT after one year he can be bait aswell if all doesnt work out. Okay we are picking up and older player with poor shot selection...but then again look who we are trading!!! Make it, thatll be our new Small Forward.

    TIM THOMAS...i like thomas but he's going to be traded no matter what. His contract is very attractive and we can get something for it...maybe wait until the offseason where Eddy Curry will get that big extension and trade a package of expiring contracts like Thomas, Baker, Norris something along those lines for Eddy Curry and Antonio Davis or something we get bigs and get out a problem, not sure itd work but its worth a try ..they did accept all those expiring contracts for Crawford ...we accept a good young big new player and an expiring contract of Davis', plus itll give the bulls a chance to run at a free agent in 05-06 and 06-07...

    C. Eddy Curry
    PF Kurt Thomas
    SF Jalen Rose
    SG Jamal Crawford
    PG Stephon Marbury....that sounds alright to me what do you think???, kinda a BullKnick roster though haha

  5. #20
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    GUYS! these trade talks of yours make me believe that i might be right in not giving the Knicks a chance to pass the first round!
    and it is weird for me as a european to see that everybody wants new players and nobody cares about building a Knicks with players that do not come and go every year.
    I think all we need would be a new coach and 2 young explosive players for the bench.
    The roster is not bad but unfortunatly some of the players think that their starter statute is guarenteed for evry game. ...well some good players from the bench could change that
    go Knicks , we are your fans through good and bad ( lately through bad times mostly)

  6. #21
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    no your not right about that. the trade talks continue because we are the Knicks. we cant accept 500 or below as OKAY! we do care about building the team with players "that dont just come and go" but how are we going to get them??? really? THROUGH TRADE!

    we have a good core of 7 players that shouldnt leave unless something amazing comes....
    C Nazr Mohammed
    F Kurt Thomas
    F Trevor Ariza
    F Mike Sweetney
    F Jerome Williams
    G Jamal Crawford
    G Stephon Marbury

    we just need to fill in the gaps, and it mite not happen right now but eventually it will.
    we need a new small forward:: we need to clear caproom:::we need a big man::: were not gonna get them unless, sorry to say, we trade....

  7. #22
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    i dunno ive become very pessmistic. i'd say no to the jalen rose trade. we already have one bad shot slection guy in crawford, we dont want another in rose. the two of them will stop any team chemistry from ever developing.

    i think ive figured out why tim thomas is a bad rebounder and not lived up to his so called potential in general. he might be able to jump high or run fast, but he doesn't have quick feet. to be a good rebounder you need to constantly shuffle your feet around and get good position. basketball isn't about winning a 40 yard dash, its about constantly changing direction. shaw marion is VERRRY quick, thats why he's a monster rebounder. he moves his feet extremely well. tim thomas CANT. its even more important to be quick than to be tall and fast or even be able to jump high. marion at 6'7 gets 8 more rebounds a game than tim thomas at 6'10. and tim thomas doesn't seem to "hustle". i never see him making any plays. ever. at least van horn hustled after balls (even though he was even less athletic than thomas). tim thomas is a scrub and should be traded right away. ariza will put up almsot similar numbers despite the fact that hes a rookie if given similar minutes. ariza makes plays, whether its rebounding, steals, or just overall hustle. id trade tim thomas for a 1st round pick straight up, if theres any takers. and hardaway id give away for free, id just be happy that someone wants to take his contract. also, while kurt thomas is a decent player, hes just not an elite, dominating PF. opponents dont fear him. all he does is hit that 15 foot jumper 45% of the time. other teams can live that. id trade kurt thomas too for a 1st round pick. id also like to trade norris, who is only an average backup PG. vin baker sucks. bruno sundov sucks. sweetney is fat and slow. i dont think ive ever seen him dunk, and he's 6'8. he just takes up a lot of space so he can get some rebounds but thats about it. and he gets in WAY too much foul trouble because hes too slow to keep up with the other quicker and more athletic PF's.

    isiah, please just get rid of all these overpaid scrubs. they all suck. the team you have built is going nowhere.

  8. #23
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    marbury
    crawford / houston
    ariza / sczerbiak
    s. swift/ k.brown
    e. curry / n. mohammad

    if isiah was smart and could make some trades go his way, id love to see the above roster. and im being realistic (not just picking kg and kobe to come to the knicks all of a sudden). that team could do some damage in the playoffs i bet. not the crappy team we have now.

    ---

    isnt lebron james the sickest player? in 2 years i think hes going to average 30/8/8. hes going to be the greatest player ever. i used to think kobe had a chance to surpass MJ, but now i think he'll actually be a little bit worse at the end of his career thatn MJ (he seems a little too skinny and not able to dominate games as much as MJ did). he seems to need to force up shots sometimes to maintain a high scoring average (which explains his low shooting percentage). mj seemed more effortless in his ability to score in bunches. but lebron is a MAN and hes not even old enough to drink. that dude is sick. hes quick, athletic, rebounds, steals, shoots, jumps - he does everything. i heard somewhere that he has a kid already, is that true?

  9. #24
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    yea he had a son born at the beginning of the season i think

  10. #25
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    not to burst your bubble but how do you think we will get that team?

    ADDING
    Curry is a restricted free agent and you better belive the Bulls will sign him to an extension so we would have to trade...

    Swift is a free agent not sure what kind so that is possible BUT why him? Kurt scores an avg of 4 points more per game then him and avg 5 more rebounds then him per game...there the same size so i dont really understand that...

    Wally why is everyone up Wallys you know what. Is he actually that good? NO wasnt he the guy who was named "Most overrated player" a year or 2 back? Plus you have no way even if you wanted to get him seeing youd trade Kurt for a first round pick which i am getting to...

    GETTING RID OF
    KThomas a first round pick?!? that is stupid have you actually saw the prospects or furthermore the lack there of in the draft?!? Plus hes cheap (talkin about big contracts) and your not going to get someone for his price that does what he does really and hes not a dominate PF? okay true BUT Swift would do much better?

    Norrishe is only an average backup pg? yea and what would you like an allstar backing up Marbury? that makes no sense either, steph plays most of the game anyways

    TThomas yes that is correct, but not right away wait until offseason when his contract is actually attractable.

    Hardaway get rid of him for free, 1st round pick or just dump him? yea ok well you cant get rid of em for free...you cant get a 1st round pick for him and by just dumping him we fork over 15 or w/e million for what? a roster space? when we can just get a decent player in Jalen Rose

    MISC
    Ariza Not ready for the big minutes yet. He is quick, energetic, explosive, good rebounder, good dunker and becoming a better shooter BUT hes young and im not saying young is bad, look at Lebron and Melo, but honestly he is not them! hes not mature enough as a player he thinks one thing and thats dunk he just needs to develop a little better bball IQ

    Sweetney
    He needs to lose some weight and get in better shape but besides for that hes good. young, cheap and good (what we need) and YES he can dunk i take it you dont watch a lot of knicks games??? cause on every commercial for the Knicks games on MSG it shows clips of Williams, Crawford, Mohammed and SWEETNEY all dunking...

    were trying to build a decent roster and its not gonna happen if earliest the offseason....heres my main objectives i hope the Knicks take and dont mess up in the offseason...

    Sign C Keon Clark
    ReSign F Trevor Ariza
    Trade G Penny Hardaway
    Trade F Tim Thomas
    Trade a package for C Eddy Curry

  11. #26
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    Getting Stromile would be great. He comes off the bench. That is why he averages less points than KT. And memphis spreads time around pretty evenly. Swift is a shot blocker thats what the Knicks need. Athletic defensive players And Marbury will make them better offensively.

  12. #27
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    well i never said it would be easy...

    and yeah i know wally isnt that great, but maybe minnesota is getting sick of him and doesnt wanna keep him for the next few years and pay him all the money. maybe they will trade him for tim thomas and his expiring contract. id rather have wally than tim thomas. he can shoot better and scores a little ebtter and plays a little harder. and he'd be a good insurance for when allan houston will become old aand useless.

    maybe memphis will realize they cant resign swift, and isiah can lure him away (maybe sign and trade involved with KT).

    chicago is supposedly sick of curry, so maybe they'd trade him away for mohammad and/or kurt thomas (maybe antonio davis could be involved).

    the whole point of getting expiring contracts instead of gettin rose and only extending the payroll is so that we CAN SIGN BIG FREE AGENTS and not have to try to trade for them (and usually have to take some bad contracts along with it).

    maybe sweetney and ariza aren't quite there yet in terms of deserving big munites, but i BET they'd prdocue very similar numbers if given the chance as KT and TT. and that would improve the trade value tremendously, which would be great to use in the offseason.

    yeah i know hardaway just sucks and is basically untradeable. nobody is going to take him.

    basically i think that isiah shouldn't constantly try to make trades to "WIN NOW". look at what the phoenix suns did just ONE YEAR AGO. they traded away marbury, got rid of hardaway, said they were "moving in a different direction", and now they have one of the best teams in the NBA, in just ONE YEAR. i know they had marion and stoudamire already, but still. they were able to sign nash and richardson and give joe johnson time to become a better player because they got rid of bad contracts. we are the new york knicks. we would have NO PROBLEM signing big free agents if we weren't way over the salary cap. by unloading tim thomas and kurt thomas, we'd be moving in a different direction, but still their replacements wouldnt be much worse, and would get a good learning experience for the rest of the year, and we'd positin ourselves to get better in the future. kurt thomas is 32, hes only going to get older and slower. he's not a prototypical PF in my book. id rather have swift or k. brown or e. curry. yeah i know it might be tough to get them, but if isiah is a good gm like he thinks he is, i think he's got enough pawns and things going for him that he might be able to pull a couple of those trades off.

  13. #28
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    Wally-hes alright, i personally think Kurts better though. Okay Wally mite be younger but hes shorter and has been injured a few times if i can remember correctly. Plus as I said before Kurt was never named "most overrated player". Plus we are losing are leading rebounder and wally def. wouldnt make up for that. I just dont like the idea of Kurt FOR Wally. Now Tim FOR Wally thats okay. I think itd pass the commisioners money wise (they are 3-4 milliom apart) approval but the Timberwolves have said they have NO interest in trading Wally at this time. But you talk about expiring contracts and we are basically losing one in TT's and picking up another 5 year 9-13 million dollar one. Our good insurance for Allan Houston is already there JAMAL CRAWFORD...

    Swift -yea that sign and trade would work, but would it be great for us? he is younger, and faster and would be a better inside presence. But besides for that he has never avg numbers like kurt, even when he was playing big minutes. I wouldnt mind this though well get faster, younger, more energetic is great.

    Curry- once again im not sure on how much were allowed to sign free agents for because im not good in that area, especially when we already spend the money we do. I never heard of the bulls being sick of Curry but if so thatd be good for us. theyd still sign him to an extension most likely and maybe we can trade i have no clue actually it depends on how much they resign him for. Im sure we can make a package including Tim Thomas and Kurt (if we dont use him in the swift thing) for Curry and Davis...i dont know why the bulls would do that though. we have a better chance at getting chandle which is ok i guess.

    Rose- I dont understand your comment there, I said we get him for penny. Penny has one year left on his contract in the offseason and so does Tim BUT who would trade Penny and Tim for more expiring contracts? that doesnt make sense, the reason Tim/Penny are good bait is because people are trying to unload their contracts and players they want out for a contract of equal $ that will run out real soon. So that is kinda impossible unless we just hold on to their contracts and let them run out. which is stupid when we can create good bait for something better.

    Ariza&Sweetney- they are too young still. Ariza isnt all knowledgable in bball IQ yet and you can tell that when he plays. Sweetney needs to lose a little weight and relax with those fouls. Everyone complains we are not looking into the future and if we trade them in the offseason that would be are dumbest move ever. Then we are truly stuck with a bunch of aging players...

    Our future is what we make it, and I really am not sure of it right now...

  14. #29
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    Marbury, Crawford, Sweetney, Ariza- are the only untouchables on my list, everyone else can go. It's not that I don't like other players on the Knicks, I do. But thats the core I would hold on to, with Marbury being the oldest one on my list. From there, you add the other pieces to the puzzle.

  15. #30
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    but dont u think nobody should be untouchable, in a sense...

    if the lakers said we'll trade you kobe for marbury, i'd do that in a heart beat. and id trade sweetney for eddie curry straight up (i think isiah tried to do that already actually).

    if its the right players and the right situation, anybody can be traded. its a business, as they say.

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