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Thread: Are you optimistic about Bargnani?

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    Member gmf1369's Avatar
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    Default Are you optimistic about Bargnani?

    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] -- By most measures, Andrea Bargnani's season with the Knicks last year was a forgettable one.

    New York’s offense was 6.8 points better (per 100 possessions) when Bargnani was on the bench. On defense, the Knicks allowed one fewer point per 100 possessions when Bargnani was off the court.

    And then there’s this: The Knicks went 15-27 before Bargnani went down with an elbow injury and finished the season 21-18 after he got hurt.

    It's unfair to put that all on Bargnani, but it doesn't reflect well on the former No. 1 overall pick.

    "He just never seemed to be a good fit," one NBA scout said of Bargnani last season.

    But when viewed through the prism of individual statistics, Bargnani’s 2013-14 season doesn’t seem so terrible. He averaged 13.3 points and 5.3 rebounds per game, numbers the Knicks probably would have signed up for when they acquired Bargnani last summer.

    The bigger issue last season for Bargnani was that he never fit well on the floor with Carmelo Anthony. The Knicks hoped Bargnani could be a strong secondary scoring option. That didn’t happen.

    New York outscored teams by 3.5 points per 100 possessions when Anthony was on the court without Bargnani. But when Anthony and Bargnani shared the floor, the Knicks were outscored by 3.9 points per 100 possessions.

    Maybe that was one reason, along with his salary, that Bargnani was deemed expendable earlier this summer by the Knicks. The Knicks’ hierarchy tried to ship Bargnani out, along with one of their guards, in an effort to shed his $11.5 million salary and free up some money for then-free agent Pau Gasol, sources say.

    Either New York couldn’t find an amenable trade partner or couldn't construct a deal to its liking because Bargnani is still a Knick and Gasol is with the Chicago Bulls.

    It is unclear if Bargnani is still on the trading block.

    Phil Jackson said last week he thinks Bargnani will “surprise” some people this season. He also called the seven-footer “overlooked.”

    “We think he's going to really do well in the kind of system we have,” Jackson said in an interview on MSG Network. “We've got a couple guards he likes to play with in Jose [Calderon] and Pablo [Prigioni] because he's played with them before in situations. I think he's going to be a surprise and I think he's going to be a pleasant one for our fans.”

    Some see Jackson and Derek Fisher's triangle offense as a panacea for Bargnani. If he can knock down the open shots produced by the triangle, the theory goes, maybe Bargnani can have a successful run in his second season in New York?

    (That theory ignores that Bargnani isn't a strong passer and doesn't move well -- two essential skills in the triangle.)

    Offense, though, hasn't been Bargnani's biggest issue over eight years in the league. Defense and rebounding have also held him back -- maybe to a larger degree than any drawbacks he has on the offensive end.

    So Fisher and the Knicks will have to figure out not only how to get Bargnani open looks on offense but also how to overcome his porous perimeter defense and spotty rebounding.

    And, oh yeah, they’ll also have to find a way to incorporate him on offense without hindering Carmelo.

    Is that possible? Sure. Anything's possible. But, based on last season, it doesn't seem all that likely.

    Question: Do you agree with Jackson when it comes to Bargnani? Do you think Bargnani can be a “surprise” for the Knicks this season? Or should they look to trade him?

  2. #2
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    That's the value of stats, didn't know Barge was that bad, I assumed the Knicks gave up more points when he was on the floor but to hear we scored nearly 7 points more when he was on the bench surprised me.

    PJ is like every GM from Colangelo to Grunny, taken in by a guy that's 7 ft tall that can stretch the floor a little and has the occasional monster game but in the long run the guy is addition by subtraction.

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    Super Moderator RunningJumper's Avatar
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    I wouldn't look much into last season. The team in general was a wreck.

    He was bad a lot of time at defense except post-defense, which he actually was good at.

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    Think he can be solid, actually liked his 1v1 defense on bigs down low, remember him kinda punking Dwight Howard early in the year? And he CAN shoot it a bit, he will need to learn but should be given the chance to be helpful, also low risk cuz worst case he mostly rides pine for year then is gone. But also wouldn't put too much into Phil saying that stuff, he hasn't been able to trade him, what's he going to say? Yeah, dude kinda sucks, wish I could unload him for a bag of balls?

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    bargs was good one on one in the post , but needs to improve his perimeter d and help defense

    he should be really good used in the high post in the triangle where he can get open shots when melo is cuting to teh corner or down to the rim, he had an automatic mid range jumper last year which was money so he can get alot of those shots easy in this offense

    key ofcourse is melo moving around which will create alot for everyone else

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    Bargs is a big hamburgling donut real talk. At least Novak was a knockdown shooter from downtown. Bargs isn't even that. Bargs doesn't fit well with Melo because Bargs loves to lurk up around the circle not moving, not setting picks, and not passing but shooting bricks whenever he touches the ball. And on the defensive side of the ball: TOTAL LIABILiTY. And Bargs doesn't rebound either so what does Bargs do well???? NOTHING but make whatever team he's on worse. Sometimes stats don't tell the whole story, but look how much BETTER the CRAPTORS were without Bargs and how much WORSE we got with him. From division title to toilet bowl in one season Um um um

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    Originally Posted by jimkcchief88
    but look how much BETTER the CRAPTORS were without Bargs and how much WORSE we got with him. From division title to toilet bowl in one season Um um um
    well to be fair, he was out for most of the season.... but I agree he does BLOW...

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    I been calling Barg's a buster since 2006, only bc Barg's skills has never been a top 10 pick, or showed any signs at being a NBA starter.
    Bargs is a decent big role-player u bring off the bench for extra scoring

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    Evacuee Crazy⑧s's Avatar
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    July 19, Trieste, Italy

    Andrea Bargnani is training with the National Team in Trieste (Italy) but won't participate in the Sarajevo tournament. He wants to be ready for the NBA season and will be training alone with Francesco Cuzzolin (strength & conditioning coach)


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    Those Melo M9's look flash!

    What are our thoughts about Bargnana () being in a contract season, going in to the triangle, as well as playing alongside Calderon?

    Some players are system fits, and besides the obvious issue with his nauseating defense, are these 3 factors going to bring out the enormity of his talent in a season filled with question marks?

    Top 10 Plays & Season Highlights 13-14


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    Until proven otherwise, Bargs is just another guy we have to tolerate until he is no longer on this team. I think it's all a bluff to make it sound like Bargs will fit the triangle, when the reality is that he doesn't really do anything well enough to fit any system. If he does log serious minutes at center, than at least we'll have a center who can hit shots, but he will kill us by his lack of team defense skills, poor rebounding, and poor passing. If he logs minutes at power forward, then that means he's either only playing spot minutes with Melo on the bench or he is forcing Melo to the 3 and as a result, keeping Shump, THJ, or Early from getting minutes.

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    Originally Posted by Crazy⑧s


    What are our thoughts about Bargnana () being in a contract season, going in to the triangle, as well as playing alongside Calderon?
    didn't he play with calderon in Toronto?? and he sucked up there, and expect him to be equally sucky this year...
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    It's his contract year so maybe he doesn't suck. He put up his best numbers to that date in the last year of his rookie deal and got his max deal from the Raps off of that.

    He looks in shape so maybe he can start over Dally with the motivation of trying to get paid in 2016.

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    Originally Posted by htr10
    Until proven otherwise, Bargs is just another guy we have to tolerate until he is no longer on this team. I think it's all a bluff to make it sound like Bargs will fit the triangle, when the reality is that he doesn't really do anything well enough to fit any system. If he does log serious minutes at center, than at least we'll have a center who can hit shots, but he will kill us by his lack of team defense skills, poor rebounding, and poor passing. If he logs minutes at power forward, then that means he's either only playing spot minutes with Melo on the bench or he is forcing Melo to the 3 and as a result, keeping Shump, THJ, or Early from getting minutes.

    Bargs & Bosh first 4 seasons in the NBA, had a pitiful bigman coaching-staff that hope a Toronto Raptors team roster of differ foreign speaking players could create a system amongst themselves. The Knicks used to be them playing a one on one system lol

    The "Tri-Angle" system were built for 6.10 big-body players like Barg to score or assist on pick n roles, set high/low picks, box-out, and create offensive-fouls on opponents in the paint.

    However, if ISO-Melo don't put any effort into staying in-front of his man on defense, do not expect Bargs, or any Knicks player to put much effort on the defensive-end.
    Knicks and Nuggets players got tired of never receiving any credit by the media for a Knicks/Nuggets win when ball-hogging Melo plays.

    So many Knicks Players would've had an outstanding season under coach Fisher, if Phil Jackson stopped Dolan from resigning ISO-Melo.

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    C'mon Kiya... You lose all credibility blaming Melo for Bargs sucking

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    Originally Posted by jimkcchief88
    C'mon Kiya... You lose all credibility blaming Melo for Bargs sucking
    I agree the I'Talian needs no help in sucking....
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