NBA Transactions Thread
- Thread starter Broadway
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They may possibly be open to acquiring Gary Neal to reunite him with Budenholzer or Ray Allen if he makes his choice after All-Star break.
Ray Allen, wasn't he headed to Cleveland? That San Antonio offense is what the Knicks should be running not that triangle crap.
Ray hasn't decided yet but something tells me he'll follow Lebron's poop trail. The triangle offense is a bit of a cluster of archaism but has some advantages.
Most certainly wide open uncontested midrange shots
Well I understand this newage style of play has lend to the mental degree of let's "just shoot layups and 3s" but it's not necessarily the end all be all to become a winning team with a great system.
Do I think the triangle can work, sure it can.... but it should also come with plenty of flexibility and adaptability.
I'll always feel an uncontested shot at the professional level is the highest % shot or at least it should be. If a professional basketball player can't hit wide open shots, then why are they being paid millions of dollars to play this sport.
Is it the most efficient shot, ummm depends on the context and goals of efficiency. If a team is trying to produce the highest PPS on each possession well I guess you have to factor heavily on 3pt shooting and getting to the free throw line because of the yield FGA in reflection to points produced okay but at the same time if you have the philosophy of hitting open shots at a high clip while having the ability to be balanced for a set defense then you're going back to a timeless unchangeable statistical goal of make more than you miss, no matter where you take the shots.
IMO trying to shoot just 3s and layups is dumbing down the sport and being lazy but it's being disguised as genius. The greatest players in this sport of ALL-TIME the GOATS, the majority of them operated in the midrange 10-12 to 16-18ft area. Because of how fundamentally flawed this generation of players are and the devoid of the big man, it's caused plenty of coaches to overthink the game in some respects.
Now the Advanced Stats Dorksters and some coaches suggest long 2s are stupid and to that I can see a level of understanding. Although if you had 1 or 2 players on a team who could make 90 out 100 attempted shots in practice from 19ft but absolutely sucked donkey balls from 23ft I'm not going to tell those player-s to backup 4ft to shoot a 23ftr. I'll take what the player-s does well and will incorporate sets to take advantage of this strength.
Of course you want players to be well rounded in all phases of the game, so if expanding the shooting range can lead to better productivity go for it but what happened to coaches knowing what to do with TALENT instead of trying to change the TALENT and place it in a standard package.
So all in all I'm for a very diverse system that takes advantage of multiple areas on the court to be productive. And I'd look for offensively diverse players, or as many as possible. Don't get me wrong you're always going to have a crop of players who are only skilled at certain things and they fill in voids or areas of weakness in all of what a team is trying accomplish but there's no reason to try and make this game become a GIMMICK, the basic principles are always going to shine over innovation unless the rules drastically change.
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Nice post Broadway but there is no way the triangle offense beats a San Antonio style offense all things being equal. The math just doesn't work out when you compare the offenses, shooting 33% from 3 is like shooting 50% from 18 ft. and mid-range shots don't get you to the line as often as taking it strong to the basket.
I don't know if you saw the Warriors/Hawks game, the Hawks made 15/27 3s and it just wasn't Korver shooting them, every player took at least one 3 in the game. They also had 36 pts in the paint and were 33/37 from the line, add that all up and it looks like they had 10 pts they scored in the mid-range area. Aesthetically, I thought it was a great game, a fast up-tempo game with a lot of ball movement. Unless the Knicks can assemble an all world defensive team, PJ is nuts if he thinks the triangle can compete with a modern era NBA offense.
I don't know if you saw the Warriors/Hawks game, the Hawks made 15/27 3s and it just wasn't Korver shooting them, every player took at least one 3 in the game. They also had 36 pts in the paint and were 33/37 from the line, add that all up and it looks like they had 10 pts they scored in the mid-range area. Aesthetically, I thought it was a great game, a fast up-tempo game with a lot of ball movement. Unless the Knicks can assemble an all world defensive team, PJ is nuts if he thinks the triangle can compete with a modern era NBA offense.
See TS% has fooled many the 33% argument over 50% 3s vs 2s, 2s vs 3s.
What about accounting for misses - What about accounting for which shots draw the most fouls - What about accounting for which shots put teams in the penalty quicker - What about where teams start initiating the offense(would depend on players of course) - What about the inconsistency in reffing game to game - What about which shots produce the more open looks - What missed shots are fast break producers for offenses - What if you're a poor rebounding team - What about the team's ability to be affective at a certain pace
Someone may say hey you're talking about analytics right. Why yes I am because it has it's place but please don't try to oversell this area of study and try to draw final conclusions of absolutes as in "shoot more 3s and layups because 2s are bad"
It's funny because wasn't D'Antoni's offense sold to the masses as "Let's run the Quick Spread" even came up Branding it as SSOL. How many teams are running it now? They may be running remnants of it but not as a pure staple of operation. Wasn't Phx one of the most efficient offenses in NBA history? Why don't teams simply shoot more 3s than 2s on approximately 80-85FGA/gm since 3s>2s from an efficiency standpoint?
Really it's becoming absurd and bizarre on epic levels because prestigious schools have infiltrated the game trying to sell and package it a different way. I would go one step further in that there is a major hidden interest for the game to change how it's played so it can change who we're seeing play the game. Try to give this facade that focusing more on the SKILLS(considered SMARTS) and far less on ATHLETICISM(considered STREET) equates to supreme real success. Look I understand the And1 generation was-is abysmal but that doesn't mean you totally abort what has proven true for decades.
Once again the greatest talents operated heavily inside the arc it's a simple fact of history. No analytics need to be consulted here and can't be refuted.
Instead of trying to assembly line players tell great shooters like Bradley Beal-Klay Thompson to mimic their game after Ray Allen - Reggie Miller - Rid Hamilton - Mitch Ritchmond etc etc because all these guys got busy all over the court including heavily in the midrange. These guys didn't just shoot layups and 3s nor were they seeking those shots at all costs.
The Triangle can work but just like spread offenses need particular talents so does the Triangle. It needs more tweaking that allows for more in and out workings going to it away from it and back to it. As of the here and now Phil did not have nor assembled the personnel for this style of offense and probably won't be capable of doing so going forward. The needle of justice says move away from it but let's see what happens if he's able to bring in better talent.
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Ray Allen 4th qtr. explosion could put Clippers on the top? or Cavs on the top? or Heat on the top?
Will Ray Allen be in the 2014-15 FINALS? and with what team?
San Antonio does not have a specific offense, the Spurs has a GELLIN system that search for all their opponents weak area throughout the first half of a game. The Spurs (BIG-3) Dunkin/Ginobli/Parker has been the best gellin 2nd half team in the NBA for over a decade (Spurs own the 3rd quarter). The Spurs can imitate any teams system they play against, thats why they been so successful in a postseason series. For as long as i can recall no team wanted to bump into the Dave Robinson or Dunkin Spurs in the first round.
It would be a nice read before the trade deadline .. The Knicks are not finish trading, Phil Jax added so n so ??? to put with Melo in the starting lineup next season, plus Phil received a 2015 first rounder for ....blah blah blah.
Im just saying!
On this roster, Melo is the only starter for next season. I dont want to see Jose in the starting lineup next season.
That's why Duncan has so many rings .. the league has become water down with all these bigmen wanting to shoot a 3 ball every game.
It seem like the majority of bigmen in the NBA TRY to be like Dirk, which is stupid.
All the 6.9 and 6.8 players cant be like Magic Johnson or Lebron playing the point.
CoolClyde
Moderator
great thread and great posts Broadway (has your name always been Broadway?).
i think there's way too much emphasis on the triangle offense as an end-all, be-all. of course there will be tweaking depending on what players you have at what position, but the fact remains the offense is a series of passing and cutting, dictated by the defense.
I believe Phil envisioned Bargnani, JR, Iman and Jose being a large part of the triangle's success in NYC, with all of them hurt at the start of the season, and Sammy not getting it done at the tip of the 'angle (or having a clue), plan B took effect much sooner than later. I'm sure clearing the roster was a contingency plan that reared it's ugly head as injuries filled the bench and d-leaguers the floor.
the future of PJ's Knicks will count on 2-way players with basketball smarts, not the street players, not the high-priced 1-man wrecking crew, but a menagerie of hand-picked high bball IQ players in the $8M-$12M range, give or take a couple mill.
This can and will round out the roster, allowing Melo to be in the flow of good teammates, to not be double teamed, to allow ball movement, player movement, passing, cutting, open 3's, pick n rolls, etc. , and ultimately, finding the open man who can hit the open shot from where the triangle designates.
i'm pretty sure i'm agreeing with all you said, Bway, it's a matter of having the right team players. PJ has his work cut out for him, but at least he's looking to have a clean slate to fill, and that is a very good thing.
i think there's way too much emphasis on the triangle offense as an end-all, be-all. of course there will be tweaking depending on what players you have at what position, but the fact remains the offense is a series of passing and cutting, dictated by the defense.
I believe Phil envisioned Bargnani, JR, Iman and Jose being a large part of the triangle's success in NYC, with all of them hurt at the start of the season, and Sammy not getting it done at the tip of the 'angle (or having a clue), plan B took effect much sooner than later. I'm sure clearing the roster was a contingency plan that reared it's ugly head as injuries filled the bench and d-leaguers the floor.
the future of PJ's Knicks will count on 2-way players with basketball smarts, not the street players, not the high-priced 1-man wrecking crew, but a menagerie of hand-picked high bball IQ players in the $8M-$12M range, give or take a couple mill.
This can and will round out the roster, allowing Melo to be in the flow of good teammates, to not be double teamed, to allow ball movement, player movement, passing, cutting, open 3's, pick n rolls, etc. , and ultimately, finding the open man who can hit the open shot from where the triangle designates.
i'm pretty sure i'm agreeing with all you said, Bway, it's a matter of having the right team players. PJ has his work cut out for him, but at least he's looking to have a clean slate to fill, and that is a very good thing.
All Phil Jackson championship rings were from being the BEST Defensive team that season.
The Red Holzman Knicks played 100% defense for 48 minutes when Phil Jax were the 8th man off the bench.
The 2014-15 season Knicks showed no form of a defensive-plan in the pre-season or 53 regular season games.
u cant blame any Knicks players for the Knicks coaching having NO-Defensive-Plan
How well will Phil do in the 2015 offseason draft & FA market?
CoolClyde
Moderator
ummm, you missed the point, K-man. the triangle's offense is dictated by the opposing team's defense. forget it.
He better play some defense with Carlisle there or else he'll be on the bench
He's a better fit with a PnR offense then the triangle and he can still score, I expect he'll fill the Brandon Wright role.
Injuries are the issue with him, Carlisle is going to baby him so no back to backs but can he go the remainder of the season and the playoffs healthy.