Why the Knicks will draft Justice Winslow
- Thread starter Paul1355
- Start date
Both of your posts were excellent. You make good points, Mafra. What you mentioned about Winslow playing well as a PF is what Fran Frischilla said in his interview with Micheal Kay on ESPN radio. You also made a key point that all players will be good so getting the best available player should take priority over the triangle and need. Then the question is who is the best player? Is it mudiay, porzingis? We should also draft someone that can start in year one in my opinion.
Let's not get married to selecting players because of the Knicks playing the triangle offense. I see it being scrapped at some point with or without PJ, more likely without PJ, I don't see him lasting the whole 5 years and he has an out option after next season which he'll take if the Knicks have another ****ty year.
Wargames
Starter
The best chance for the triangle offense to work and the knicks to not suck next year is for them to go all in with the pick and get players who works within the system. PJ might leave..... but I'm hoping he doesn't
Anyhow a left handed SG who can drive, use the Eurostep consistently, draw fouls, shoot the 3, moves well without the ball, defend the 1 - 3 spot, and lead the pack in transition and is placed either in the 5 - 7 on all mock draft boards is a great thing. The fact that all those skills match the triangle a lot better than Mudiay (who every analyst says doesn't fit the triangles needs at PG) is why I think he'll move up the 1 to 3 spots (depending on the mock) into the knicks #4 pick.
On top of that triangle aside the knicks need to put 2 way defenders around melo, they need players who can play within a system, and they need good character guys (he went to duke) who know how to win (which he just did in the NCAA). Winslow provides all these things and isn't nearly as big a mystery as Mudiay whose team in China arguably performed better without him playing than with him playing.
mafra
Legend
i keep saying it... Dont be blinded by the last 12 months... There is a reason why Mudiay was the higher ranked recruit coming out of HS... 1 year doesn't change much... I GUARANTEE if Mudiay played at Duke, and Winslow in China, nobody would be hyping Winslow over Mudiay.
i notice, in your posted highlights, there's no reference to his underwhelming FT shooting... He shot 64% from the charity strip... His game seemed more based on his strength in college... That wont play in the nba as much... Derrick Williams had a great tourny game vs Duke, while at Az... Drafted high... He stinks. Point is, dont be fooled by what happens Feb- March as the 'end all, be all' sign of whats to come.
with that said, I wouldnt mind JW as long as our people drafted him believing he is the better player, not bc he is the better fit for our system. Winslow comes with a major bust risk... Isnt overly athletic, not known for his shooting, kind of came and went last year. There's little risk involved with Mudiay... And... He is the higher ceiling player...
now, if I bring Winslow in and believe the shooting he displayed at the end of last year was legit, and I believe in his heart and offensive potential... I would happily draft him... Why? B/c he sort of reminds me of a slightly smaller version of scottie pippen.
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Wargames
Starter
I'm really not hyped on Mudiay, everything I see from him reminds me of Tyreke Evans which is not bad but definitely not worth the #4 pick to me. Mudiay doesn't have Walls blinding speed or Russell's level of athleticism at this point as they did coming into the NBA. He has high potential and great size but the holes in his game are worse than the holes in Winslow's game.
To make it all worse he is a high school kid who went overseas to the same league guys like JR scored 50 pts in multiple times in a game in, and 38 year old Marbury is the Finals MVP in, and loss his starting spot to Will Bynum. Its just not competitive over there except for a fact that they have a real league schedule.... which Mudiay didn't experience because he got injured and played only 12 games over there (less than he would have if he stayed in the US and played in college). Now he's back in America and he didn't even go to the Draft Combine in Chicago so teams could see how he stacks up against his peers.
Also to be fair Mudiay was a even worse FT% in China than Winslow's in the NCAA and made 57% FT shoot, avg 3 TO's to his 5 assist. His FGM% and 3FGM% was slightly worse than Winslow's too. At this point I would say both of their shooting % can obviously improve over time.
However with both their shooting % being bad and all things equal Winslow has more tools now in my opinion to contribute and as I said before as a cherry on top his skills besides shooting actually fit the system we're using now and his shooting got better as the season went on. So your right about if whether scouts believe its important that Winslow got better as the season went on because in the case of Winslow his stats would be higher if he played like he did in the tournament throughout the whole season.
Hell outside of the tournament stats & games. Now all the analyst say Mudiay has some crazy upside but tons of kids have crazy upside in HS. Josh Selby was once the top HS recruit in the nation and we saw how that turned out. Yi Jianlian who was a scrub in America avg 27/10 over there in the CBA at 57% FGM this season as Mudiay's team mate. Also I am going to be honest I have no faith in Larry Brown hyping up a prospect he didn't coach or ESPN trying to convince everyone Mudiay is great. There are way to many questions about that kid.
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Mafra .... Wsup wid da Mudiay vs Winslow
Its bad enough that the first 5 picks in the 2015 draft class will all be 19 year old freshmen (PROJECTS).
The reason Mudiay was a high recruit out of high-school were his shoot-first PG performance.
Mudiay needed college to improve his team IQ passing performance .. now Mudiay need a headcoach like Mark Jackson who showed Stephon Curry how to change his game from a shoot-first PG to a pass-first PG. Not to many coaches know how to do that.
Winslow showed throughout his freshmen season he could bumb-bodies in the paint with the big boys for a rebound, catch n pass without dribble on pick n roll or transition to have a high IQ on offense, plus go around picks/screens n know when to switch when defending the paint gives Winslow a high IQ on defense.
If Philly 76ers do their homework for the best two-way player in the 2015 draft class for the 3rd pick, Winslow will be that pick. Philly will have a young trio frontline of bigs that will improve each season in C-Embrid, PF-Noel, SF-Winslow.
I figure .. later for PJ n the triangle, i would like to get a 4 year young product with two-way skills with the 4th pick of the draft .. i want to watch the growth of a young player with star potential on the Knicks.
To me .. Winslow is that player at the 4th spot .. if Philly 76ers are going PG in Russell/Mudiay
The thought of Philly trading 6.6 Michael Carter-Williams, refusing 6.3 Brandon Knight on the trading deadline has me questioning Philly draft decision b/c Philly got max money for a PG in offseason .. be it trade or FA
Wargames
Starter
Russell would be a great look for the knicks though if he falls because he has proven court vision and high BBIQ, can shoot, and passes well from the perimeter. Mudiay doesn't have any one particular high level skill but is full of "potential" based on how he played in the CBA where they play no defense and high school.
mafra
Legend
HUH? Mudiay is 6"5'... strong... tremendous ball-handler, defender, rebounder, passer, penetrator. Let's not judge an 18 yr-old kid who played injured, for 12 games on the other side of the planet. The kid is an absolute basketball junkie... mature... good head on his shoulder. He is both NBA ready(physically) and has enormous potential. He's battled against Russell all through his youth (and was better).
READ THIS: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2342294-nba-draft-notebook-better-2015-prospect-emmanuel-mudiay-or-dangelo-russell
Mudiay is same height as Russell but is 20 poundsheavier, and he's faster / more explosive. In fact, EM's first step, andlast one, are "special" (which makes him unguardable). EMcreates his own offense and plays above the rim. Russell is strickly a catchand shot guy, plus a liability on defense.
Russell is a special passer and a great shooter. We're talking Curry toEM (Westbrook)... BOTH are going to be good players...
It's like the NFL: if I'm going to miss on a high draft pick... miss taking the QB, LT, or pass rusher... not on a WR or CB.
We know what Mudiay, WCS, and Pirzingis are... they have a position. What is Winslow? Too small for a SF, not good enough shooter to be a SG... he's the classic tweener.
NOW... I realize he's only 19... and flashed enough offensive potential to make it intriguing... BUT, you have to be sold on his impending stardom to take him at 4... You cannot squander this opportunity on a system/role/complimentary player. I don't care about best fit for this upcoming season... If that is the thinking... trade the pick for a proven talent AND to dump Calderon's contract.
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Great find Wargames....we are a slow half court team and that video shows that Winslow can be effective in a half court offense. I also loved how the commentators explained how he always makes the big shot. We need guys with balls in NY...Winslow might be a perfect fit for NY...which means drafting him will either put Hardaway back to his ideal 6th man role or makes him even more tradeable
He's pretty creative and even though he played PF he acted more like a SG/SF with his driving ability. His jumper needs consistency burns shot 41 percent from downtown so he has the tools to be very effective on offense.
If Winslow plays the 2 guard than Hardaway will have to take a back seat or get traded
Wargames
Starter
I've seen mock lineups with Melo at the 4 and Winslow at the 2/3 with other defenders like Danny Green or Demarre Carroll. He would also fit great in those lineups because the 2 & 3 around Melo would have to be spot up shooters would could drive if open to make it easier on Melo. Also if a team decides to put their best wing player on Melo, Winslow would see himself with the same Big PF mismatches he use to take advantage of when he ran into them in college. It would make it even harder on opposing defenses to adapt to Melo at the 4.
SSj4Wingzero
All Star
What's this about Winslow not being athletic? I'm not a huge NCAA fan and I don't think you can tell that much about a player's athleticism just by watching highlights, but both NBADraft.net and Draft Express write that he is extremely athletic.
If he does have major issues, it's that he can't really shoot off the dribble, his jumper needs to improve, and his ball-handling is still a work in progress. On the plus side, he can contribute on the defensive end right away, and he's strong and quick.
If he does have major issues, it's that he can't really shoot off the dribble, his jumper needs to improve, and his ball-handling is still a work in progress. On the plus side, he can contribute on the defensive end right away, and he's strong and quick.