KrisP VS PGE Turow footage
- Thread starter Crazy⑧s
- Start date
true, good point on porzingis.. as far as phil.. he shouldn't confuse fans that much, especially if you tapered your expectations from the start to something realistic. I am not really confused with phil, I just think he is trying to play both sides of the fence and is doing a bad job at it...
Yeah "confusing" may have been a more generic term to use. He's definitely borrowing tomorrow for today's time, but when tomorrow comes he hates it. Who likes Paying the Piper? No one!.... But as you said at some point you have to start paying down the debt. We have a lot interest to eat into before we see that principal budge anywhere.
Real NY Baller
Starter
@Broadway
His top rotation guys either did not play the whole season with him or missed 20-40gms individually due to injury and didn't have a few of them during the playoffs. All facts. You could have used the same excuses for Harden here that you have for Melo in this thread(during his Knick tenure and some past Nugget failures). The only rock he had on his team was Ariza. Let's not elevate Rizzy anymore than necessary here. Very solid player but overall Harden put a misfitted-gimped roster on his back nearly won 60gms in a hella tough west and advanced to a WCF. Yes you acknowledged a couple Nuggets by left out several, while attempting to stamp my list down with reaches to maintain the value you hold with Melo.
I still don’t see this reaching thing…as you’re the one steadily posting players for me to comment on. Now how does this reaching thing work? Is Melo’s tenure here with the Knicks not the same? Did we not suffered injuries to Amare, Lin, Felton, Kmart, Kid, Thomas, Shumpert, felton, Tyson, Billups, etc…hell, the Knicks probably was the most injury prone team he played on. I’m not addressing his time in Denver again, that horse was beat to death a long time ago. It’s old news in time and in this thread.
You asked a question of pointing who's done a lot/similar with less and I posted reply of several players who did. Factual. No biggie you disagree but objective fans would agree with the list of guys I came up with.
Lets be clear here. I said who melo had played with on this team. Then the discussion went into other players and their teams…and I still offered you feedback on that…but you’ll also overlooking that, cool. I’m ok with that. Re-read and proceed. I’m not re-posting anything else on it. It’s all there for you. Anyone interested in this discussion will see it...if they are reading carefully. No need to go further in...
Why did Melo lose to mighty Deron and Brand when a Nugget? Why couldn't we catch the hapless Hawks(playoff bid) the yr prior, when they lost Horford practically all yr and backed into the playoffs losing like 24 of the last 32gms?
Why do you? Seriously…
I'm gonna have to take this reply.... you know deep down inside A.I. did more with less. It's about how far these players got with what they had... roster and circumstance wise. Did they far surpass expetations. It's not about if in comparison to Melo was there achieved successes with working with less. They all had less and some success, it's just that the other players made the most of their lesses.
That’s a negative. Deep down I feel like we made some serious errors this off season. As I’ve elaborated on throughout this thread. And… that Melo’s time here was spent with injured players, players that didn’t mesh well, and players that were deferring to him instead of playing hard with him. That’s what I saw, that’s what I’ve been saying…and Deep down you know this.
It's all good, I gave you props on what you've provided on this forum.... just the more with less argument wasn't a favorable one for you. As far as the topic I ended my last replies touching on the fact again #kporzee is more important than Melo going forward regardless of what the opinion of either is. #kporzee wins by default because of age and what we've been told we're trying to accomplish going forward. Now if Phil is selling another lie or prepared for another switcheroosky, then this opens another Pandora's Box of the Effery Phil has pulled since his arrival. So there was a focus to bring this thread back on topic a post or three back. You are correct we've been sold two different PHILosophies and it ain't looking pretty at the moment.
And this is where I have serious concerns. Again, thanks for that acknowledgement.
Are you willing to wait and give #kporzee a chance to grow into how good he could be or are you already writing him off? I got the impression a few post ago you're not willing to wait as a fan. You don't want to make a fan experience with #kporzee?
Do I even have a choice? And did you not see how I stated numerous times that I’m not going to be so judgmental about him until pre-season? If he flops I’m going to be there to criticize him just like I’ve done with every other player that wore the blue and orange jersey…even Melo was getting venom from me in the past, and in this thread. Recognize.
His top rotation guys either did not play the whole season with him or missed 20-40gms individually due to injury and didn't have a few of them during the playoffs. All facts. You could have used the same excuses for Harden here that you have for Melo in this thread(during his Knick tenure and some past Nugget failures). The only rock he had on his team was Ariza. Let's not elevate Rizzy anymore than necessary here. Very solid player but overall Harden put a misfitted-gimped roster on his back nearly won 60gms in a hella tough west and advanced to a WCF. Yes you acknowledged a couple Nuggets by left out several, while attempting to stamp my list down with reaches to maintain the value you hold with Melo.
I still don’t see this reaching thing…as you’re the one steadily posting players for me to comment on. Now how does this reaching thing work? Is Melo’s tenure here with the Knicks not the same? Did we not suffered injuries to Amare, Lin, Felton, Kmart, Kid, Thomas, Shumpert, felton, Tyson, Billups, etc…hell, the Knicks probably was the most injury prone team he played on. I’m not addressing his time in Denver again, that horse was beat to death a long time ago. It’s old news in time and in this thread.
You asked a question of pointing who's done a lot/similar with less and I posted reply of several players who did. Factual. No biggie you disagree but objective fans would agree with the list of guys I came up with.
Lets be clear here. I said who melo had played with on this team. Then the discussion went into other players and their teams…and I still offered you feedback on that…but you’ll also overlooking that, cool. I’m ok with that. Re-read and proceed. I’m not re-posting anything else on it. It’s all there for you. Anyone interested in this discussion will see it...if they are reading carefully. No need to go further in...
Why did Melo lose to mighty Deron and Brand when a Nugget? Why couldn't we catch the hapless Hawks(playoff bid) the yr prior, when they lost Horford practically all yr and backed into the playoffs losing like 24 of the last 32gms?
Why do you? Seriously…
I'm gonna have to take this reply.... you know deep down inside A.I. did more with less. It's about how far these players got with what they had... roster and circumstance wise. Did they far surpass expetations. It's not about if in comparison to Melo was there achieved successes with working with less. They all had less and some success, it's just that the other players made the most of their lesses.
That’s a negative. Deep down I feel like we made some serious errors this off season. As I’ve elaborated on throughout this thread. And… that Melo’s time here was spent with injured players, players that didn’t mesh well, and players that were deferring to him instead of playing hard with him. That’s what I saw, that’s what I’ve been saying…and Deep down you know this.
It's all good, I gave you props on what you've provided on this forum.... just the more with less argument wasn't a favorable one for you. As far as the topic I ended my last replies touching on the fact again #kporzee is more important than Melo going forward regardless of what the opinion of either is. #kporzee wins by default because of age and what we've been told we're trying to accomplish going forward. Now if Phil is selling another lie or prepared for another switcheroosky, then this opens another Pandora's Box of the Effery Phil has pulled since his arrival. So there was a focus to bring this thread back on topic a post or three back. You are correct we've been sold two different PHILosophies and it ain't looking pretty at the moment.
And this is where I have serious concerns. Again, thanks for that acknowledgement.
Are you willing to wait and give #kporzee a chance to grow into how good he could be or are you already writing him off? I got the impression a few post ago you're not willing to wait as a fan. You don't want to make a fan experience with #kporzee?
Do I even have a choice? And did you not see how I stated numerous times that I’m not going to be so judgmental about him until pre-season? If he flops I’m going to be there to criticize him just like I’ve done with every other player that wore the blue and orange jersey…even Melo was getting venom from me in the past, and in this thread. Recognize.
Real NY Baller
Starter
@tkf
not true, if a woman is having the same issues every relationship then there is something wrong, and usually you look at the common denominator.. the woman, so it will play a huge part on her relationships going forward..
That’s not how I operate. The women could just have been around the wrong men (it happens all the time). Abuse, security, sexual flaws, etc…Who knows. I’m not going to assume without details. …maybe we will hit it off maybe not. I believe there’s a match for everyone. Even if the women is a complete loon I’m sure there is someone out there that will mesh well with her personality…just hope they’re not in your vicinity when doing the things they like to do.
you like to make your own experiences..ok, tell me what how your experience as a fan here with carmelo been? Are you happy?
It’s been a whole lot better having him here then when he wasn’t here. Do you remember all those years of tears we had to go through? I would have been even happier with a more fitting draft pick as oppose to getting someone we hardly know anything about.
maybe i do need glasses, but what does that have to do with this post, i referred to the comment you made about carmelo having the same guys, yet you claim they were injured.. what does that have to do with your comment about iverson and kmart being his best chance? You still made the comment and I addressed that directly..
I see you still didn’t go back to find the post where I already answered this?
what analysis? you pretty much told us that carmelo didn't have help... he didn't have help, he didn't have help, amare was injured, dantoni sucked, and porzingis isn't worth building around...
And your point? “Porzingis isn’t worth building around” is your own words not mine. None of us know what he can do yet. And no, I don’t think you build around uncertainity when you clearly already have better talent at your disposal. Why even invest if you’re not going to fully invest? This is the ill management and it’s showing in all phases. I don’t want to pay money on an unforeseen experiment. Give me something I can imagine with ease…but don’t try to sell me the Brooklyn Bridge.
I have no problem with you liking carmelo.. I just have a problem with your so called analysis of him being the best route for this team and using excuses to back up why he should be continued to be given chance after chance, when in 13 years he displayed he just isn't that guy......
You have a problem with opinions that vary from your own. The organization, fans, and players from all over share the same views of melo as I do. It’s not that hard to see with open eyes. Is he the best of the best, no…but why you seem to think I’m saying this is baffling. I paired his talents with needs we’re not fulfilling. Can you not see this?
If you like carmelo and the direction this team has been going in the past two years.. fine.. that is your choice... just call it what it is.. a mess.... you seemed to already have admitted that this franchise has been a mismanaged mess, yet you seem to support the direction that got us into this mess.... Im just saying a new direction has been in order and should have happened years ago..
Last year was Phils doing and Dolon’s meddling, So again I ask you… WHO DID WE HAVE ON THE KNICKS TEAM PLAYING WITH MELO? Don’t answer the question with more irrelevancies.
obviously not, he seems to want to give it another go with the woman whose last 7 boyfriends tragically died.
and you would rather gamble on someone that has yet to prove he can stay on the court…with rookies. You didn’t even see how Porzingis can play with NBA professionals yet. But you’re ready to go all in with him first. If we would have ended last year the right way we wouldn’t even be here talking about this dude. Dysfunction everywhere. Maybe that woman in your analogy was dealing with men having this same kind of mentality…if so, I can’t really blame her.
I say give a new direction a try... but thats just me...
Hey, fine by me. But if you’re going to do something don’t “half step” when doing it!
not true, if a woman is having the same issues every relationship then there is something wrong, and usually you look at the common denominator.. the woman, so it will play a huge part on her relationships going forward..
That’s not how I operate. The women could just have been around the wrong men (it happens all the time). Abuse, security, sexual flaws, etc…Who knows. I’m not going to assume without details. …maybe we will hit it off maybe not. I believe there’s a match for everyone. Even if the women is a complete loon I’m sure there is someone out there that will mesh well with her personality…just hope they’re not in your vicinity when doing the things they like to do.
you like to make your own experiences..ok, tell me what how your experience as a fan here with carmelo been? Are you happy?
It’s been a whole lot better having him here then when he wasn’t here. Do you remember all those years of tears we had to go through? I would have been even happier with a more fitting draft pick as oppose to getting someone we hardly know anything about.
maybe i do need glasses, but what does that have to do with this post, i referred to the comment you made about carmelo having the same guys, yet you claim they were injured.. what does that have to do with your comment about iverson and kmart being his best chance? You still made the comment and I addressed that directly..
I see you still didn’t go back to find the post where I already answered this?
what analysis? you pretty much told us that carmelo didn't have help... he didn't have help, he didn't have help, amare was injured, dantoni sucked, and porzingis isn't worth building around...
And your point? “Porzingis isn’t worth building around” is your own words not mine. None of us know what he can do yet. And no, I don’t think you build around uncertainity when you clearly already have better talent at your disposal. Why even invest if you’re not going to fully invest? This is the ill management and it’s showing in all phases. I don’t want to pay money on an unforeseen experiment. Give me something I can imagine with ease…but don’t try to sell me the Brooklyn Bridge.
I have no problem with you liking carmelo.. I just have a problem with your so called analysis of him being the best route for this team and using excuses to back up why he should be continued to be given chance after chance, when in 13 years he displayed he just isn't that guy......
You have a problem with opinions that vary from your own. The organization, fans, and players from all over share the same views of melo as I do. It’s not that hard to see with open eyes. Is he the best of the best, no…but why you seem to think I’m saying this is baffling. I paired his talents with needs we’re not fulfilling. Can you not see this?
If you like carmelo and the direction this team has been going in the past two years.. fine.. that is your choice... just call it what it is.. a mess.... you seemed to already have admitted that this franchise has been a mismanaged mess, yet you seem to support the direction that got us into this mess.... Im just saying a new direction has been in order and should have happened years ago..
Last year was Phils doing and Dolon’s meddling, So again I ask you… WHO DID WE HAVE ON THE KNICKS TEAM PLAYING WITH MELO? Don’t answer the question with more irrelevancies.
obviously not, he seems to want to give it another go with the woman whose last 7 boyfriends tragically died.
and you would rather gamble on someone that has yet to prove he can stay on the court…with rookies. You didn’t even see how Porzingis can play with NBA professionals yet. But you’re ready to go all in with him first. If we would have ended last year the right way we wouldn’t even be here talking about this dude. Dysfunction everywhere. Maybe that woman in your analogy was dealing with men having this same kind of mentality…if so, I can’t really blame her.
I say give a new direction a try... but thats just me...
Hey, fine by me. But if you’re going to do something don’t “half step” when doing it!
jimkcchief88
All Star
Damn it's going down in this thread. I wasn't paying attention because it's title "zinger highlights" yawn. I am agreeing with Real NY Baller here... Melo has never had much help and instead of getting such help PJAx has stripped the team and drafted a project to boot. I don't get it but all I know is in the end everyone will still blame Melo for all this mess
You're reaching because what we've determined is with the Harden comparison they both had injury riddled squads. Let's give Knicks the edge here due to Carmelo's injury himself. What you're struggling mightily at, is this. There was no point in time last yr when Melo played, we were even .500. Melo couldn't even get us to a winning record by end of January before he essenitally called it quits.... whereas the contrast with Harden he took a team almost as far as they could go, mind you in a much tougher conference with dire circumstances. Melo didn't even meet bare minimum success.
Naaaaah not good enough more excuses. Great players get bums to come to where they should be, not the other way around. You're trying to make Melo become the exclusive benefactor, nope not gonna cut it. Maybe Melo's biggest and most crippling weakness, he can't elevate the play of lesser caliber players. Melo doesn't have the Billups to Denver type affect on players. The Kidd to Jersey/Knicks type of affect. He needs tons of finessing and ego stroking of acceptance as being the man, when honestly he should have 2 alphas or more above him.
Oh and Ummmmmm what players can't win if they are surrounded by a bunch of talented players?
Could we have put a better product around Melo, yeah we could have. You could also argue the players I listed as doing more with less...their teams didn't make all perfect moves and didn't have the greatest bills of health either. It's called deal with the cards delt and play your hand to the best possible outcome. At the same time Melo hasn't done his part being a #1 guy, maybe he's been better than anyone else but that's not saying much.
I think we all do.... even the "IN PHIL WE TRUST SPARTA-MALITIA"
Yes you do have a choice. Like not root for the team at all or find other teams to watch who make very cerebral decisions you only wished our team made. You don't have to blindly root for #kporzee or Melo, although #kporzee deserves the same shot as others prior to him to prove his worth to us. The one thing that truly makes #kporzee unique over Melo that should give him another edge going forward....He's home grown talent not borrowed with many miles on it.
But to be honest #kporzee is probably headed down a similar Melo beaten path you've spoken on. You know a young talented player, who'll probably fill a good portion of what we anticipate from him, without having enough talented young pieces to grow with around him..... surrounded by marginal vets and an aging overrated All-Star. If we aren't to destroy his career path probably best to hope we trade Melo and bring in assets that will catapult the rebuild process.
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Damn it's going down in this thread. I wasn't paying attention because it's title "zinger highlights" yawn. I am agreeing with Real NY Baller here... Melo has never had much help and instead of getting such help PJAx has stripped the team and drafted a project to boot. I don't get it but all I know is in the end everyone will still blame Melo for all this mess
I've actually deflected some of the blame from Melo and mentioned #kporzee several times in this thread, to make sure we get back to him being the focal point. Most of this convo probably should have went into the "All Things Melo Thread"
The heightened sensitivity levels towards criticism need to end though.... when it comes to him or any player-person currently affiliated with this franchise. No one has proven to be above it whatsoever.
jimkcchief88
All Star
When you are coming off a franchise history worse record there is plenty of blame to go around. Hell, the MSG hotdogs were cold and the beers were warm lol
. Melo is the most polarizing figure to wear a Knicks uni since "Starbury." Most of KO.com loved Starbury, but hate Melo. I don't really get it. I wasn't a big Melo fan, but the my best Knicks memories of the past decade have Melo in them. Does he make his teamates better? Probably not. But that's the point guards job. Melo's job is to fill it up and he does that nicely. Funny for all the Iso-Melo haters and "wish he was more like Bron" guess what the Cavs ran without Kyrie Irvin during the Finals??? Iso-Bron. Now Lebron is a pass first guy, but Melo is a pure scorer, so you can't really grade them out on the same scale.When you are coming off a franchise history worse record there is plenty of blame to go around. Hell, the MSG hotdogs were cold and the beers were warm lol
really? what were they, I am interested in hearing this....
From the Phil Files on ESPN The 5th Installment
A Blip Here and There
lol @ Phil and Melo's relationship and where it's headed
Is Phil aware we don't have a 2016 1st or is this an editorial error?
So had we the trade assets he would have wanted Dragic over the options we ended up with this summer?.....as we've been heavily sold about this defensive culture change and need for bigs? He knew Dragic would want a Max deal so there's no way Phil can sell he would have traded for him but not given him a max contract. Dragic signed for $90mil this summer. Do the math who else would Phil have signed to go with him? How is Dragic different from Mudiay....other than shooting at the moment? lol @ Phil Jackson he told on himself so bad here. Had we traded for Dragic we probably aren't in a Top 4 position to pick during the draft. Phil wanted whatever bigger name wanted to be here. Not sure what to think about the Kanter drop
We need Mafra to make sense of this, I'm sure he can break this down
Calls Shved a tease...lol no wonder he wasn't brought back. I'll stop here...there's so much more ridiculousness in these Phil files.
A Blip Here and There
lol @ Phil and Melo's relationship and where it's headed
Is Phil aware we don't have a 2016 1st or is this an editorial error?
So had we the trade assets he would have wanted Dragic over the options we ended up with this summer?.....as we've been heavily sold about this defensive culture change and need for bigs? He knew Dragic would want a Max deal so there's no way Phil can sell he would have traded for him but not given him a max contract. Dragic signed for $90mil this summer. Do the math who else would Phil have signed to go with him? How is Dragic different from Mudiay....other than shooting at the moment? lol @ Phil Jackson he told on himself so bad here. Had we traded for Dragic we probably aren't in a Top 4 position to pick during the draft. Phil wanted whatever bigger name wanted to be here. Not sure what to think about the Kanter drop
We need Mafra to make sense of this, I'm sure he can break this down
Calls Shved a tease...lol no wonder he wasn't brought back. I'll stop here...there's so much more ridiculousness in these Phil files.
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LOL, you are going in on Phil.. haha, but justifiably so... he is doing a lot of double talking.. especially his comments on dragic. He mentions he tried to go after him, and then acknowledges that Dragic plays a style that he was not interested in playing..
i am like.. HUH phil? LOL..
Yeah and supposedly turned down Bledsoe and pick #13(not mad he did but it's kind of hypocrisies finest) when Bledose and Dragic play pretty much the same style(Bledsoe probably get's a little more done inside the arc), put up the similar numbers in Phx. One a better shooter and the other a better playmaker, one much younger than the other.
But Phil said multiple times when addressing our needs, that the team needs a guard who can penetrate and break down defenses.
A bizarre executive we have no doubt
so true.. phil coached the triangle with two different teams. The bulls and lakers, to great success.. During which time he has had average PG's at best.. the key was he had an elite SG.. MJ and Kobe... So I can understand if he wanted to pass on these ball controlling, scoring PG's we have today and would much rather have a derek fisher type... OK, but then why go after a Dragic in the first place? it is like he wakes up every morning with a new objective.. LOL..
Maybe he should be looking for an elite SG to help propel this offense... or one with the potential to be that... good luck...