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Thread: Mudiay glad not to be a Knick because of Triangle

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    Default Mudiay glad not to be a Knick because of Triangle

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    As we all feared PJAx antiquated offense is scaring players away. If a rookie doesn't want to play for us, how the hell are we gonna draw top free-agents

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    Veteran tiger0330's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by jimkcchief88
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    As we all feared PJAx antiquated offense is scaring players away. If a rookie doesn't want to play for us, how the hell are we gonna draw top free-agents
    Add HOFer Gary Payton and Shane Larkin as guys not fond of the triangle. Like most fans I was excited about the triangle last pre-season but the proof is in the results. You get too many mid-range shot opportunities, not enough FT's, not enough 3 pt shots. This is a 3 pt shot oriented league now, just look who made it to both conference finals.

    Not sure what happens with the triangle this year because DFish said he at least wants to run a drag screen as the first play in transition this season but PJ says he doesn't want to play drive and kick out bball. The Knicks didn't run a lot of triangle in summer league, you would hear Clyde say they're not running the triangle, just playing bball. Let's see what happens but if the Knicks struggle with it in camp and in Dec. they would be idiots to keep running it.

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    Originally Posted by tiger0330
    Add HOFer Gary Payton and Shane Larkin as guys not fond of the triangle. Like most fans I was excited about the triangle last pre-season but the proof is in the results. You get too many mid-range shot opportunities, not enough FT's, not enough 3 pt shots. This is a 3 pt shot oriented league now, just look who made it to both conference finals.

    Not sure what happens with the triangle this year because DFish said he at least wants to run a drag screen as the first play in transition this season but PJ says he doesn't want to play drive and kick out bball. The Knicks didn't run a lot of triangle in summer league, you would hear Clyde say they're not running the triangle, just playing bball. Let's see what happens but if the Knicks struggle with it in camp and in Dec. they would be idiots to keep running it.
    I was never excited about the triangle. I was always curious as to why many teams didn't use it, if it was so good.. Listen, you can take Jordan, Pippen, shaq and kobe and run basically any offense and win. but I have seen a couple of teams try to run the triangle, bill cartwright and the bulls for one and it didn't do well.

    I don't dislike the triangle because you don't get a lot of 3 point shots. I love high percentage shots, the three should be used as another weapon, but not your main weapon, this may be a 3 pt shot oriented league now, which may explain why we have a lot of players who don't shoot very high fg%... I don't mind the mid range shot at all.. what I don't like about the triangle is that talented PG's who do multiple things well seem to get mitigated a bit.. It seems as if it is an offense geared towards talented SG's...

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    The scary part is that it looks like Phil's rational for not drafting Mudiay was after showing Mudiay film of the triangle it didn't seem Mudiay grasped it right away so he didn't fit the scheme. Huh???? Good coaches get the talent, fit the scheme to the talents not vice versa. I guess the franchise worse 17 win season didn't teach PJAx you can't survive in today's NBA without top tier PG play. I guess we will see if Grant can fill the spot, but you can't argue Mudiay would have been a better choice.

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    Superstar pat's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by jimkcchief88
    The scary part is that it looks like Phil's rational for not drafting Mudiay was after showing Mudiay film of the triangle it didn't seem Mudiay grasped it right away so he didn't fit the scheme. Huh????
    Which does not bode well for his basketball IQ. It's not rocket science, you know.

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    Just because most teams are spending 75% of their time behind the arc doesn't mean that this is the way to go, this is just being trendy. GS and SA won because they're talented teams, not just because they camp out behind the 3-pt line all game. The early to mid part of the 00s (even a little earlier) was great basketball; we saw balanced three-point shooting, slashing, w/ post play + a little mid-range mixed in. This team would be fine had we had a post presence + slashers. The advanced mumbo-jumbo analytics might say threes are the way to go, well at the very least there needs to be talent to inititate this floor spacing-- a post player or at least a intelligent PG that can run an offense & finish at the cup

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    Originally Posted by Steezo
    Just because most teams are spending 75% of their time behind the arc doesn't mean that this is the way to go, this is just being trendy. GS and SA won because they're talented teams, not just because they camp out behind the 3-pt line all game. The early to mid part of the 00s (even a little earlier) was great basketball; we saw balanced three-point shooting, slashing, w/ post play + a little mid-range mixed in. This team would be fine had we had a post presence + slashers. The advanced mumbo-jumbo analytics might say threes are the way to go, well at the very least there needs to be talent to inititate this floor spacing-- a post player or at least a intelligent PG that can run an offense & finish at the cup
    I was a fan of JVG's half court style of bball when he had Yao Ming. The guy had a beautiful post game that JVG used for his inside out half court offense. Post players like Yao are now a rare breed, BLopez one of the remaining ones left.

    It got JVG fired in the end though because it was too slow and the owner Les Alexander wanted to play faster because it was more exciting for the fans.

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    Originally Posted by pat
    Which does not bode well for his basketball IQ. It's not rocket science, you know.
    But by the same token you are right, it is just basketball. There is a certain feel and flow to the and Mudiay seems to have it. It doesnt take a strict system to adhere to when a guy knows how to play the game. Mudiay's basketball IQ was good enough for Larry Brown to recruit him. That's good enough for me and SHOULD have been good enough for Phil. You don't need a degree from Notre Dame to be a successful PG in the NBA on Chief

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    Originally Posted by pat
    Which does not bode well for his basketball IQ. It's not rocket science, you know.

    Yeah because Kobe knew everything about the triangle at age 19 too(rolling eyes). What did you take from his comments when he said he would have love to be Fisher's understudy and learn more about the triangle?

    I'm not sure about the truths behind these once again unconfirmed comments, other than to say most players end up feeling welcomed by the team that took the guts to take them and ultimately feel it was the best place for them to be. I mean what else are we expectating to come from his camp....that he's absolutely devestated 6 teams passed on him and that he's already depressed in Denver?

    The story came from Berman of all people I doubt he's plugged in to non internal sources....and that he's remotely close to anyone asscoiated with Mudiay. This is pretty much a non story and about 2week old news anyway.

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    Originally Posted by tiger0330
    I was a fan of JVG's half court style of bball when he had Yao Ming. The guy had a beautiful post game that JVG used for his inside out half court offense. Post players like Yao are now a rare breed, BLopez one of the remaining ones left.

    It got JVG fired in the end though because it was too slow and the owner Les Alexander wanted to play faster because it was more exciting for the fans.
    I realize that the back-2-basket prototype pivot is pretty much extinct, I'm not exactly asking for that, but in today's times just somebody like a Brad Daugherty or Tom Chambers; a big man that can take you off-the-dribble and has a mid/high post game, as that seems to be what defines the inside game nowadays. Or even a Sam Perkins type, can mix it in-and-out. What we really needed was Okafor-- while he may not be a future HOF, he does seem he will be a dominant post presence for years.

    I know there'd be issues, but as the most viable plan I personally see, I like Anthony @ the 4, if what we're limited to @ the 5 is a Robin Lopez. Carmelo has a nice post-game and his most efficient years came when he took less threes (although having a scorer like Iverson helped). Get a true PG that doesn't dominate the ball (Eric Maynor would've been a realistic option, but he hasn't been the same since his knee tear), a clutch wing and go from there. Afa the bolded, I could give a damn WHAT the "fans" want; Denver played that way for years and couldn't sell tickets to save their lives...

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    Looking for players to play the Triangle-offense on a team without any experiece triangle players on the roster, plus a roster without any leadership players the new players could depend on for advice. The important parts of a system.

    In 2008 the Knicks were looking for players to play the run n gun SSOL offense system without any of the important parts.

    JVG had success bc he was Pat Riley assistant coach. The Knicks still played the Pat Riley system after Riley QUIT the Knicks.
    JVG was a tier-2 Pat Riley coach .. JVG took the Knicks to the FINALS off of Star player Sprewell team leadership.

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    Rajon Rondo came out and said the triangle is not really a good look for me. Count him out as a solution for the Knicks PG woes. Bumping this thread to hear your ideas on other FAs who are or aren't a fit for the triangle.

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    I would assume most ball-dominant PGs would be turned off by the triangle offense...

    I would assume the triangle offense works well with guys like Frazier and Reed, MJ and Pippen, Kobe and Shaq...

    You need quality wing players, versatile forwards and dominant BIG men.

    Still, I prefer motion, spacing, ball movement, cutting... over speed ball, ISOlation, PGs that pound the dribble and perimeter dillydadling waiting for the 3-bomb...

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    Originally Posted by tiger0330
    Rajon Rondo came out and said the triangle is not really a good look for me. Count him out as a solution for the Knicks PG woes. Bumping this thread to hear your ideas on other FAs who are or aren't a fit for the triangle.

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    I saw this quote too yesterday. As an aside, I think it's funny that Rondo doesn't seem to understand the game that every other FA plays of pretending the Knicks are a serious consideration as a means of possibly driving up their price.

    I think Mike Conley is starting to gain steam for us (at least from a rumors standpoint). He is a big PG who plays smart and is a solid two-way player. Conley, unlike Rondo, also seems to be saying things that you could interpret as being favorable to him being available to the Knicks in FA. For example, there's a recent quote where he was asked if he had agreed with Gasol to stay in Memphis and he said no.

    Conley is making less than 10 million this season, but he likely will draw much bigger offers this offseason, probably driven by us. Unless I'm missing something, even if we move a couple contracts, Memphis still has much more cap space than us for this offseason, so we can't outbid them. So, there you go.

    Beyond Conley and Rondo, the only other unrestricted free agent PG for this offseason that I have seen listed is Brandon Jennings and it sounds like a mid-season trade may decide his team for next season.

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    I also just read online that Frank Isola says we should pursue Boston's Evan Turner, who will also be an unrestricted free agent this offseason. I guess theoretically he can run the point.

    Obviously I'm far from the first person to notice this, but given an already signed starting frontcourt of Robin Lopez, Melo, and Porzingis, there are not a lot of options in free agency this offseason where we are going to be able to upgrade our starting lineup.

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