New York @ Detroit 01/29 Game Thread (L 91-61)

a knick fan

Benchwarmer
but how will we get amare or lebron or yao if we are over the salary cap? why in the world will phoenix or cleveland or houston not sign a guy for max dollars if hes one of the best in the league. pretty much every team in the league will be willing to give any of those guys max dollars. and if they let him go, they're going to want a lot back in return, not just an "expiring" contract. what do we have that we can give up to get a star of that caliber?

if we are UNDER the cap, and say chicago doesnt wanna give curry a lot of money, then we could just SIGN him. but if we are OVER the cap, how do you propose we would get him or anybody else? chicago wouldnt want crawford back, and they already supposedly rejected a sweetney for curry trade. what else could we give them?

so basically u admit that we will be able to do nothing with tim t. and pennys expiring contracts since u couldnt name one possible trade that would happen. then dont say we should patiently wait for this summer, or that all the other expiring contracts give us some hope and something to look forward to in the future. you couldnt name one time that a team succesfully used expiring contracts to their benefit to land a great player. if we sign a guy for 1-3 years to sit on the bench, obviusly he wont be a very good player and contribute much to the team, and therefore u admit that we will be a bad team for the next 2-3 years. so if we're going to be a bad team anyway, why not go ALL THE WAY down and atleast BETTER POSITION OURSELVES to land a star free agent.

i want exactly what u want, to be able to sign those big name guys 2-3 years down the road. and that will be much easier to do if we have an efficient payroll, and good young talent that could be used as trading pawns. if we are OVER the salary cap and only have expiring contracts to offer, there will be other teams that will be able to offer much more, or teams that under the cap, that will be able to sign those guys.

i dont understand - what questions are you asking me that im not answering???
 

NYKnicks15

Starter
HOW WILL WE GET LEBRON YAO OR AMARE?!?!?!? by the time they are free agents Houston, Williams, sundov, brewer, tim, penny, moochie, baker will be off our pay rolllllll. this is especially for LeBron. do your research!!! in 2007 season our pay roll will be around 36 million dollars!!! hello get the facts. i never said trade for them. AND if you do some research you will see that LeBron will make a lot more money if he plays in a BIG market. LA, Chicago or NEW YORK!! its all about endorsements! so say we cant pay him a HUGE contract they will pay for the rest.

okay say we do your recommendation and trade away everyone this season for expiring contracts and just on the 1/1000000000 chance the bulls dont resign curry. were gonna just have curry?!?! and build around him?! NO the bulls are a contributing team he is not the team and he wont be ours. remember when curry was supposedly the savior for the bulls? what happened hmm nothing. nothing at all.

why not go all the way down? because this is NY we are talking bout we cant CANT afford to lose the fans interest. nor the buzz around the garden. i agree it would better position ourselves to land free agents BUT its no gonna happen. face it.

teams under the cap?? haha do you no how many teams are under the cap? 9 of 30 not including charlotte who cant offer much to a player right now. and only 2 of those 9 teams are even close to having the money to signing a big free agent (9+ mill.)

first off u havent named me one great player from the draft that we could get and contribute to our team immensily. and you still havent realized the knicks DO NOT HAVE A DRAFT PICK in the following two seasons i believe. and say we do do ur trade getting rid of everyone even allan which wont happen....tell me what YOU would do in the next couple offseasons???? then i will tell you what id do? good topic starter riight?? mine too starts with portland haha
 

a knick fan

Benchwarmer
yes, they will be off our payroll, but there will obviously be ADDITIONS to the payroll as well. is 2007, we will have FOUR players under contract for 36 million dollars. thats not even a starting roster!!!!! theres 15 players per team, NOT FOUR. who will pay for the other ELEVEN? are you saying isiah will have only taken contracts that are THREE years or less from now until that time so that any other contract will have expired? first of all, three year contracts or less are UNHEARD of in this league, unless you are just a shitty player or a rookie. and knowing isiah, and as you said, "this is new york, we should want to win and not just unload everything", i am CERTAIN he will have added more salary and longer contracts, because it will be virtually impossible for him to NOT DO SO. that would be like the GM of the knicks saying four years ago, well, in 2005, we will only have 25 million dollars on the books listed so far for 2005, so will have room to sign free agents at that time. thats retarded, because obvoiusly additions will be made.

kobe was a free agent this past year. we could have had him possibly if we had unloaded last year. denver was able to get kenyon martin because they had cleaned up their books. we shuold to.

EVERY DRAFT has possible stars. NAME ONE DRAFT IN THE LAST FIFTEEN years that there werent at least a handful of good players that came out and became stars in the league. michal redd was a 2nd rd pick, so was rashard lewis, so was trevor ariza. there's ALWAYS hidden gems, there's ALWAWYS guys that people say arent gonna be good and therefore they say it will be a weak draft and then there turns out to be a bunch of surprises. andre kirelenko was picked in the middle of the 1st round and he should have def. been in the lottery. people misjudge talent all the time. AND, people exceed expectations all the time because they work hard. michael jordan wasnt picked first, can u believe that? so obviously the "experts on the draft" arent such great "experts" if they could miss out on MICHAEL JORDAN and not evaluate his talent properly. getting draft picks is a good thing, whether people say its a weak or strong draft. are u saying that everyone in this draft is so bad that nobody will become an all star? I WILL BET ANYTHING that its not true. the reason we dont haev a draft pick is isiah's fault. and even if a player doesnt contribute that much in his first year, he could still be a much greater asset in terms of trade value in a package with other players. maybe we could trade some guys on our roster for in exchange for draft picks (as part of the unloading process). man, looking back, phoenix really got the better end of that deal. they unloaded a ball hogging point guard who was a detreminet to the overall chemistry of the team, packaged him with an aging usless hardaway and in return got expiring contracts and draft picks. look at where phoenix is and where the knicks are. THATS EXAACTLY WHAT I THINK THE KNICKS SHOULD DO.

even if there is NO player in the draft and NO star free agent, we STILL need to unload our roster, and set ourselves up better for the future. and anyway, unloading will be a tough task, and probably be a 1-2 year process in itself. i dont even know if any team will take houston at this point. we should have done the unloading BEFORE the season began, or atleast earlier in the season.

what research are you talking about? your idea of research is listening to the genral rumor out there that it is a "weak" draft , and therefore having a draft pick is useless. amare stoudmire was picked 9th, i wonder what all those teams that thought he was a "weak" player and drafted a "stronger" player ahead of him are thinking now.
 

a knick fan

Benchwarmer
basically, to say that we should stay patient in ANTICIPATION OF WHAT WILL HAPPEN THREE YEARS FROM NOW IS RETARDED. ANYTHING COULD HAPPEN IN THREE YEARS. if you want to plan for three years from now, you have to take actions NOW.
 

a knick fan

Benchwarmer
and we dont have to just get curry. theres lots of great free agents out there. ive already named many of them. curry is not the only one. and there will be lots of free agents next year as well. and the year after that as well.
 

Blumatic

Rotation player
I dont know what everyone expects from this team. What do you want from them? I hope not a championship. Is this team playing well? No. But this team is seriously hurt and under-manned. This team has too many offensive guys and no defensive minded people. The Bobcats should have a brighter future, they got all their players from an expansion draft , with no messy salary cap. Boston decided to build from scratch and they got burned. The lost their fan base from the 80's. They not even a team worth a mentioning. Give Isiah to finish his plan. Did u expect great things in a year? the u must be delusional
 

NYKnicks15

Starter
see now there is a level headed comment. and just like his KNICKS FUTURE post its the truth and no im not kissing a**...its just finally nice to hear a comment that I agree with.
 

a knick fan

Benchwarmer
the formula to losing a fan base is simple: start losing games.
the formula to winning a fan base is simple: start winning games.

if you build it (a winning team), they (fans) will come

yes, fans will be mad that we've become a bad team if we go the different direction. but we'll win em over again by winning.

what do u expect, of course they will be hurt and undermanned. kurt, allan, jerome, penny, are all older guys. they are all past their prime, will get worse and have more health issues. YOU AINT SEEN NOTHIN YET. we will get WORSE as a team. not even stay the same.

i didnt expect great things in a year, but isiah has not only done nothing, he has made things WORSE, and he will CONTINUE to do so. im not going to sit back for another THREE years of mediocrity where nothing good happens for me to think theres a bright future ahead.

its naive people that are constantly optimistic that make it so hard for the knicks to admit that they need to move in a different direction. i guess thats the downside of having to be a new york team.
 

a knick fan

Benchwarmer
and im the one BEFORE the season started that said this team was mediocre when others were "so excited about the upcomming season". i wanted to unload BEFORE this debacle of the last dozen games. again, another example of how i am a realistic fan and too many others are hopelessly optimistic. admit it, many people thought the knicks were gonna be a good team this year. just like many people think that something good will happen this summer. just like many people think isiah is still great and needs time to build a team.
 

NYKnicks15

Starter
thats usually how it works...taking time to build a team. if we go your way it also will take time to build a team. so no matter what its going to take 2-3 years before the knicks become anything close to great. you are just going to have to sit around and watch because you really cant do anything else unless you're jimmy dolan. but you cant judge Isiah at this point and give him a fair evaluation,,,,give him until this offseason to see if heads in the right direction then post your judgements, who knows what he will do...in all reality he has only been here ONE offseason. well have to see what happens...

by the way if you want to be the self proclaimed "realistic fan" than thats fine and dandy. just dont criticize all of us as "naive", not everyone is as "special" as you. yes we do have a new york team but contrary to your belief....there is NO downside about it.

so calm down and be civilized about your posts, we all want whats best for the team but we all have our perceptions on how to get that. so just be :calm: who knows maybe Isiah will come around and knock you off your high horse....take care haha GO KNICKS!!!!
 

Blumatic

Rotation player
a knick fan said:
and im the one BEFORE the season started that said this team was mediocre when others were "so excited about the upcomming season". i wanted to unload BEFORE this debacle of the last dozen games. again, another example of how i am a realistic fan and too many others are hopelessly optimistic. admit it, many people thought the knicks were gonna be a good team this year. just like many people think that something good will happen this summer. just like many people think isiah is still great and needs time to build a team.

Are you saying that Isiah shouldnt have time to build a team? Then I dont know what world you live in. Look how long it took the Bulls to become a decent team. Remember when the Pistons were a bad team. Without a messy payroll they were able to rebuild in 2 years. The Knicks have been in bad shape for 7 years (in terms of mamnagement, and finances) it will not take a year to make things better. All of this unloading talk. What are you going to replace them with. Unloading is not that simple. If you unload we'll still be in the same position we are in today. Maybe worse.
 

a knick fan

Benchwarmer
we will NOT be in the same position. we will be in POSITION to sign free agents, unlike right now. our position will be COMPLETELY different. maybe we will win the same amount of games, but our POSITION will not be similar. we will be in much better position.

isiah has not improved our position. its obvoiusly not fair to give a guy only one year, but based on his performance so far, he hasn't shown to be a good gm. hes going to clog up the payroll more. hes too desperate to try to build a team that wins immediately. thats why he wanted to get jalen rose (which would be another extra year of a max. contract). do u rally think jalen rose would all of a sudden make our team even close to good? no. but isiah has shown he doesnt care about our POSITION, he only tries to "win now". thats bad. so its not that hes had so little time, its what he has done in this little time, and what he has tried to do in this little time that gives indication that he is not going to make the knicks a better team.
 

a knick fan

Benchwarmer
basically, id rather win 20 games one season, 20 games the season after that, and then 60 the year after that more than id want to win 40, 40 and 40. i guess people like you dont. people like u would rather win 40 40 and 40.
 

DownUnderKnick3

Benchwarmer
a knick fan said:
basically, id rather win 20 games one season, 20 games the season after that, and then 60 the year after that more than id want to win 40, 40 and 40. i guess people like you dont. people like u would rather win 40 40 and 40.

What so we are going to get to 20 wins eventually this season :)
 

Blumatic

Rotation player
Look at the bulls before this year. No free agent considered playing for them. Dont asume what we all want. I want a Championship in NY so badly. My Point of view is that Isiah did a good job bulinding the Pacers on the fly, why can't he do it with the Knicks? This season is this season. I am digusted as well we are not even trying. They are getting worse to watch. Crawford and Ariza and Kurt seem to be the only ones playing out there. Free agents are hard to come by especially if your a losing fron chise with not promising players. The Suns werer lucky to get Steve Nash. If Shaq was still a Laker, Nash would be a Sun. Your point of view is solid I'm not arguing that. But I believe Isiah is doing a decent job interms of getting players. The Jalen Rose thing were reports nothing too solid. Only because Isiah found an interest and the NY media goes wild, and we know how gullable they can make us. Look knick fan, I'm really understand your point of view and I like your last post I understand it. But I think Isiah is doing it in unconventional ways. He got steph, he got Jamal, I think IT just needs a big man. He needs a big man. A good one. Solid one.
 

a knick fan

Benchwarmer
yeah, but i think the bottom line is, teams like chicago or phoenix a year ago had a real core of young lottery picks that had a lot of talent. we dont. we really dont have much of a future.

i think we need more than just a big man. actually, nazr mohammad is really putting up pretty decent numbers at the 5 position. id love to get someone like swift, who can run with marbury and crawford, but i dont think it can realistically happen. we'd also need a solid shooterat the 2 or 3, such as ray allen or michael redd. and we'd need more defensive minded players, and guys who can rebound like beasts (i think sweetney has the potential to become a very good rebounder (10+ per game)). still, we have a loooong way to go. and i dont want to wait that long before i feel good about the knicks as a team.
 
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