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Thread: New York @ Detroit 01/29 Game Thread (L 91-61)

  1. #16
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    ok so propose a trade that isiah will be able to accomplish with penny and tim. what do u "envision" happening? tell me what you are "patiently" hoping for.

  2. #17
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    i dont think u read that article. im not the only one who thinks the knicks should unload and get a couple of high lottery picks the next few years. isiah wasnt stuck with what he was given, he has added to the mess himself. i bet every smart reporter agrees with me that the knicks need to unload. the dumb ones who dont understand the league are the ones who think we have a "decent" team and want to "wait till the summer" and think that "we only have a few more guys to add before we become great". we suck. we are so far away from being a good team its pathetic. we are in worse shape than the charlotte bobcats. and im not even joking. the bobcats have a brighter future.

  3. #18
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    gettin lottery picks no matter who says it wont do s**t (as you say) why? because tell me who in the draft is so incredible we need a few high lottery picks?!? and next year we dont even have lottery picks. cmon honestly man. the draft these next 2 years arent so incredibly great they are very very weak.

    what am i patiently waiting for??? i think i already stated that....vin, moochie, houston, williams, tim, penny are all expiring contracts within the next 2-3 years...wait them out!!!
    my idea is if we do sign guys until then sign them for cheap for 1-2-3 years max and let them go. so when we do wait every thing out BEING PATIENT we can make a run at Amare, or Yao, or better yet LEBRON JAMES in 2007. why get rid of are core of players right this second to please people like you for no reason?! you still havent answered me on whos so great this offseason we need to clear up space for anyways....soo do you make money off the knicks (not including gambling)??? no..james dolan does and if james wants to waste his money let him...because lowering are cap for no reason right now wouldnt please me! it wouldnt please are fans! (whod rather see marbury, crawford out there instead of johnny nobody) who would it please?!?! were not going to get salary space to pick up nobodies....wait it out and pick up realllllll somebodies....that is what i envision!

  4. #19
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    lebron james was a lottery pick. so was dwight howard. so was yao ming. they havent done ****? i remember when the orlando magic were a terrible team, and then they got shaq one year and penny (when he was actually good) the next. then they made the nba finals. i dont care if its a thin draft or not, its still a draft with young players who have talent and upside. we have a roster full of players who are past their prime, or those who will never reach their prime.

    for example, lets say we were under the cap this year. we may have been able to get kobe. arent michael redd and ray allen going to be in walk years? they are BOTH by far much better 2 guards than jamal crawford. if we could package crawford with some other guys who we dont want in return for contracts that expire THIS YEAR, we might be able to get under the cap. if we could get under the cap, we could sign them. there's ALWAYS going to be great free agents on the market, if not one year, then definetely the next. there's ALWAYS going to be a great possible pick up from the lottery, if not this year, then definetely the next or the one after that. the bottom line is that the position we are currently in is NOT GOOD. we dont have a lot of youg talent. marbury and crawford, are two supposed stars, really aren' that great. even though marbury is a great player, hes not good for a team as a scoring point guard. almost every great team i can think of has point guards who are NOT the best scorers on the team. maybe allen iverson is the only exception i can think of, and hes much better than marbury because he can score 30 points night in night out, unlike marbury. and the 76ers arent very good anyway.

    YOU WONT BE ABLE TO GET SOLID PLAYERS FOR 1-3 YEARS. PLAYERS ARE GREEDY. if a player is solid, he will want more years and more money. eddy curry suposedly wants a maximum contract, which is absurd. watch, we wont get ANYTHING good from tim t. and penny. name ONE time in the past that ANY team has used expiring contracts to get good players in return. i like conracts that end at the end of THIS season in hopes of being able to get under teh cap so i can outright SIGN a free agent instead of having to swing a deal or signa and trade, because that is much harder. kwame brown, swift, redd, allen, e. curry are a few players i can think of that would be big UPGRADES at their respective positions, even if we had to pay them as much as the current players make, it still would be better. for example, kurt t. makes 7.5, if we could give stromile a 4 year 35 millio ndollar deal, it might work, and i think that would be better than kurt at 4 for 30. but we cant do that since we arent under the cap. kurt thomas is getting old. hes going to get worse. same with allan houston.

    flip the sides. lets say another team has a guy who basically sucks, is over 30 and is injured (penny) most of the time, or a guy who has no heart and has always played below his potential (tim t.). why would you take them? NAME ONE TEAM or PROPOSE ONE TRADE that will SIGNIFICANTLY help our team. PATIENTLY WAITING TILL THE SUMMER will do nothing. IF YOU CANT EVEN IMAGINE ONE SCENARIO REALISTICALLY THAT WILL HAPPEN, then WHAT ARE YOU PATIENTLY WAITING FOR????????? ARE YOU HOPING JACK WILL SELL YOU HIS MAGIC BEANS?

    we need to get under the cap. we need to enter the lottery for the next 2 years. we need to position ourselves to sign the next big superstar.

  5. #20
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    bravo. that was a great way to avoid the questions i asked you. i dont care who was a free agent last year it doesnt matter its all about the future. eddy curry yes hed be a great upgrade but do you think chicago is gonna let him slip through their hands??? Ray Allen you talk about getting younger then why get Ray Allen? Sure hes good but why pick up a large contract for someone aging right? Michael Redd, good choice but say in the scenario we get rid of jamal and a package. we have a little salary space for michael redd and he resigns with milwaukee for a s***load of money. where does that leave us?

    Did I say Dwight Howard doesnt do anything? Did I say LeBron doesnt do anything? Did I say Yao didnt do anything? no i said the lottery is weak. a lot of "smart reporters" as you call them even see this. isiah even said this. there are no impact players or saviors in the draft this year and it is true. tell me a player in the draft thats great this year?? and would make a great addition to the team? by the way we cant get in the lottery for the next two years we only have this years draft pick, do your research...

    We got Nazr in the Tim trade and thats the only reason Isiah took it. if it was straight up KVH for Tim he wouldnt have done it. Tim expired in 2years along with Nazr and im sure Isiah knew that.

    Patiently waiting until this summer? I think you read it incorrectly or maybe you were just to excited to write in cap letters you forgot. First i said sign bench players for 1-3 contracts as our bigger contracts run out into free agency. I didnt say wait until offseason and TRADE??? did i? read it again. youre really making an a** out of yourself yelling and not reading the post before yours. I said wait out our contracts for 1-3 years. Williams, Vin, Moochie, Allan, Tim, Penny. That will give us the space we need. to sign someone of importance. Why get rid of the whole team before that point. when we can just wait it out with a team thats played together and let them play. sure they wont be great. but trading away all our players right now would have the same effect. One scenario realisitcally/??!?! hmmm let me think about this....like i said we wait out our contracts...then in 06 we make a run at Amare OR Yao, and then in 07 the best one of all LEBRON!!! how many times do i have to say it?

  6. #21
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    but how will we get amare or lebron or yao if we are over the salary cap? why in the world will phoenix or cleveland or houston not sign a guy for max dollars if hes one of the best in the league. pretty much every team in the league will be willing to give any of those guys max dollars. and if they let him go, they're going to want a lot back in return, not just an "expiring" contract. what do we have that we can give up to get a star of that caliber?

    if we are UNDER the cap, and say chicago doesnt wanna give curry a lot of money, then we could just SIGN him. but if we are OVER the cap, how do you propose we would get him or anybody else? chicago wouldnt want crawford back, and they already supposedly rejected a sweetney for curry trade. what else could we give them?

    so basically u admit that we will be able to do nothing with tim t. and pennys expiring contracts since u couldnt name one possible trade that would happen. then dont say we should patiently wait for this summer, or that all the other expiring contracts give us some hope and something to look forward to in the future. you couldnt name one time that a team succesfully used expiring contracts to their benefit to land a great player. if we sign a guy for 1-3 years to sit on the bench, obviusly he wont be a very good player and contribute much to the team, and therefore u admit that we will be a bad team for the next 2-3 years. so if we're going to be a bad team anyway, why not go ALL THE WAY down and atleast BETTER POSITION OURSELVES to land a star free agent.

    i want exactly what u want, to be able to sign those big name guys 2-3 years down the road. and that will be much easier to do if we have an efficient payroll, and good young talent that could be used as trading pawns. if we are OVER the salary cap and only have expiring contracts to offer, there will be other teams that will be able to offer much more, or teams that under the cap, that will be able to sign those guys.

    i dont understand - what questions are you asking me that im not answering???

  7. #22
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    HOW WILL WE GET LEBRON YAO OR AMARE?!?!?!? by the time they are free agents Houston, Williams, sundov, brewer, tim, penny, moochie, baker will be off our pay rolllllll. this is especially for LeBron. do your research!!! in 2007 season our pay roll will be around 36 million dollars!!! hello get the facts. i never said trade for them. AND if you do some research you will see that LeBron will make a lot more money if he plays in a BIG market. LA, Chicago or NEW YORK!! its all about endorsements! so say we cant pay him a HUGE contract they will pay for the rest.

    okay say we do your recommendation and trade away everyone this season for expiring contracts and just on the 1/1000000000 chance the bulls dont resign curry. were gonna just have curry?!?! and build around him?! NO the bulls are a contributing team he is not the team and he wont be ours. remember when curry was supposedly the savior for the bulls? what happened hmm nothing. nothing at all.

    why not go all the way down? because this is NY we are talking bout we cant CANT afford to lose the fans interest. nor the buzz around the garden. i agree it would better position ourselves to land free agents BUT its no gonna happen. face it.

    teams under the cap?? haha do you no how many teams are under the cap? 9 of 30 not including charlotte who cant offer much to a player right now. and only 2 of those 9 teams are even close to having the money to signing a big free agent (9+ mill.)

    first off u havent named me one great player from the draft that we could get and contribute to our team immensily. and you still havent realized the knicks DO NOT HAVE A DRAFT PICK in the following two seasons i believe. and say we do do ur trade getting rid of everyone even allan which wont happen....tell me what YOU would do in the next couple offseasons???? then i will tell you what id do? good topic starter riight?? mine too starts with portland haha

  8. #23
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    yes, they will be off our payroll, but there will obviously be ADDITIONS to the payroll as well. is 2007, we will have FOUR players under contract for 36 million dollars. thats not even a starting roster!!!!! theres 15 players per team, NOT FOUR. who will pay for the other ELEVEN? are you saying isiah will have only taken contracts that are THREE years or less from now until that time so that any other contract will have expired? first of all, three year contracts or less are UNHEARD of in this league, unless you are just a ****ty player or a rookie. and knowing isiah, and as you said, "this is new york, we should want to win and not just unload everything", i am CERTAIN he will have added more salary and longer contracts, because it will be virtually impossible for him to NOT DO SO. that would be like the GM of the knicks saying four years ago, well, in 2005, we will only have 25 million dollars on the books listed so far for 2005, so will have room to sign free agents at that time. thats retarded, because obvoiusly additions will be made.

    kobe was a free agent this past year. we could have had him possibly if we had unloaded last year. denver was able to get kenyon martin because they had cleaned up their books. we shuold to.

    EVERY DRAFT has possible stars. NAME ONE DRAFT IN THE LAST FIFTEEN years that there werent at least a handful of good players that came out and became stars in the league. michal redd was a 2nd rd pick, so was rashard lewis, so was trevor ariza. there's ALWAYS hidden gems, there's ALWAWYS guys that people say arent gonna be good and therefore they say it will be a weak draft and then there turns out to be a bunch of surprises. andre kirelenko was picked in the middle of the 1st round and he should have def. been in the lottery. people misjudge talent all the time. AND, people exceed expectations all the time because they work hard. michael jordan wasnt picked first, can u believe that? so obviously the "experts on the draft" arent such great "experts" if they could miss out on MICHAEL JORDAN and not evaluate his talent properly. getting draft picks is a good thing, whether people say its a weak or strong draft. are u saying that everyone in this draft is so bad that nobody will become an all star? I WILL BET ANYTHING that its not true. the reason we dont haev a draft pick is isiah's fault. and even if a player doesnt contribute that much in his first year, he could still be a much greater asset in terms of trade value in a package with other players. maybe we could trade some guys on our roster for in exchange for draft picks (as part of the unloading process). man, looking back, phoenix really got the better end of that deal. they unloaded a ball hogging point guard who was a detreminet to the overall chemistry of the team, packaged him with an aging usless hardaway and in return got expiring contracts and draft picks. look at where phoenix is and where the knicks are. THATS EXAACTLY WHAT I THINK THE KNICKS SHOULD DO.

    even if there is NO player in the draft and NO star free agent, we STILL need to unload our roster, and set ourselves up better for the future. and anyway, unloading will be a tough task, and probably be a 1-2 year process in itself. i dont even know if any team will take houston at this point. we should have done the unloading BEFORE the season began, or atleast earlier in the season.

    what research are you talking about? your idea of research is listening to the genral rumor out there that it is a "weak" draft , and therefore having a draft pick is useless. amare stoudmire was picked 9th, i wonder what all those teams that thought he was a "weak" player and drafted a "stronger" player ahead of him are thinking now.

  9. #24
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    basically, to say that we should stay patient in ANTICIPATION OF WHAT WILL HAPPEN THREE YEARS FROM NOW IS RETARDED. ANYTHING COULD HAPPEN IN THREE YEARS. if you want to plan for three years from now, you have to take actions NOW.

  10. #25
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    and we dont have to just get curry. theres lots of great free agents out there. ive already named many of them. curry is not the only one. and there will be lots of free agents next year as well. and the year after that as well.

  11. #26
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    I dont know what everyone expects from this team. What do you want from them? I hope not a championship. Is this team playing well? No. But this team is seriously hurt and under-manned. This team has too many offensive guys and no defensive minded people. The Bobcats should have a brighter future, they got all their players from an expansion draft , with no messy salary cap. Boston decided to build from scratch and they got burned. The lost their fan base from the 80's. They not even a team worth a mentioning. Give Isiah to finish his plan. Did u expect great things in a year? the u must be delusional

  12. #27
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    see now there is a level headed comment. and just like his KNICKS FUTURE post its the truth and no im not kissing a**...its just finally nice to hear a comment that I agree with.

  13. #28
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    the formula to losing a fan base is simple: start losing games.
    the formula to winning a fan base is simple: start winning games.

    if you build it (a winning team), they (fans) will come

    yes, fans will be mad that we've become a bad team if we go the different direction. but we'll win em over again by winning.

    what do u expect, of course they will be hurt and undermanned. kurt, allan, jerome, penny, are all older guys. they are all past their prime, will get worse and have more health issues. YOU AINT SEEN NOTHIN YET. we will get WORSE as a team. not even stay the same.

    i didnt expect great things in a year, but isiah has not only done nothing, he has made things WORSE, and he will CONTINUE to do so. im not going to sit back for another THREE years of mediocrity where nothing good happens for me to think theres a bright future ahead.

    its naive people that are constantly optimistic that make it so hard for the knicks to admit that they need to move in a different direction. i guess thats the downside of having to be a new york team.

  14. #29
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    and im the one BEFORE the season started that said this team was mediocre when others were "so excited about the upcomming season". i wanted to unload BEFORE this debacle of the last dozen games. again, another example of how i am a realistic fan and too many others are hopelessly optimistic. admit it, many people thought the knicks were gonna be a good team this year. just like many people think that something good will happen this summer. just like many people think isiah is still great and needs time to build a team.

  15. #30
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    thats usually how it works...taking time to build a team. if we go your way it also will take time to build a team. so no matter what its going to take 2-3 years before the knicks become anything close to great. you are just going to have to sit around and watch because you really cant do anything else unless you're jimmy dolan. but you cant judge Isiah at this point and give him a fair evaluation,,,,give him until this offseason to see if heads in the right direction then post your judgements, who knows what he will do...in all reality he has only been here ONE offseason. well have to see what happens...

    by the way if you want to be the self proclaimed "realistic fan" than thats fine and dandy. just dont criticize all of us as "naive", not everyone is as "special" as you. yes we do have a new york team but contrary to your belief....there is NO downside about it.

    so calm down and be civilized about your posts, we all want whats best for the team but we all have our perceptions on how to get that. so just be who knows maybe Isiah will come around and knock you off your high horse....take care haha GO KNICKS!!!!

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