How do you deal with being a Knicks fan when things seem pessimistic?

I don't really like to rant, but as much as I have been a hardcore Knicks fan for the past 21 years sometimes I feel like giving up on this team. Does this franchise have any glimmer of hope at all? They come out each season looking like world class losers throughout the course of 82 games. This is extremely painful to watch.

What signs of optimism do they give you? As a Knicks fan can you really say that you're confident about the future of this team?

1) They have an overpaid player on their roster who is not a winner

2) A coach who shouldn't even be allowed to coach a high school team

3) A team president who wants to run a system that is outdated and on top of that...doesn't have the players to do so

4) No draft picks going into the offseason

5) An organization that very few free agents express interest in

6) An owner who has destroyed the reputation and credibility of the franchise

7) A flawed roster that happens to have a potential star

8) A culture of defeat

You look at other organizations like the Celtics, Pacers and the Heat, who know how to rebuild quickly after losing a few of their pieces, and then you look at us and it makes you want to throw up. We are one of the few franchises throughout the entire NBA who takes about 10 years to recover from one or two disastrous managerial moves executed by our front office. We went from being near a contender a few years ago to having one of the worst records in the NBA to having to wait perhaps 3 or 4 more years of halfway decency.

I was able to survive through the Layden/ Isiah era since there was at least hope that someday the Knicks were going to catch lightning in a bottle, whether that would happen through a front office overhaul, the hiring of a competent coach, or the impeachment of Jim Dolan. That hope was partially fulfilled after Donnie Walsh was hired, but as you know, nothing optimistic regarding the Knicks lasts for a decent amount of time and every attempt that was made to steer this billion dollar franchise in the right direction unraveled before us in a matter of a few seasons.

As one Knicks fan out of millions I could only speak from my perspective. I appreciate the fact that I've known other Knicks fans that share my sentiments regarding certain things. In my opinion, things appear to be more pessimistic than they did 10 or 11 years ago since this is the first time that I could remember that the Knicks went from being irrelevant to relevant back to irrelevant.

Here we are nearly 20 years after Dolan took over the Knicks and since he has been our owner we have only posted 5 winning seasons and the first two Knicks teams that made the playoffs under him had nothing to do with him. I don't want to complain too much about Dolan since it has been overly exhausted over the years by many people. It just sucks that nothing that this man does benefits the team in the long run.

My question to you good and loyal Knicks fans is what about this team allows you to get up each day rooting for them? How do you deal with the fact that you look at the NBA standings and see 13th in the Eastern Conference and a 30-45 record? Or deal with the fact that this team might continue to suck past this year, the next year and the year after that?

Good post. Well said... The pain is deep and perpetual... We don't even get pain anymore bc we aren't even relevant... All I can say... Thank the Lord for making me a Yankees, Broncos, Duke fan. Yin and yang.

mafra said:

Good post. Well said... The pain is deep and perpetual... We don't even get pain anymore bc we aren't even relevant... All I can say... Thank the Lord for making me a Yankees, Broncos, Duke fan. Yin and yang.

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Thank You. As a Yankee fan as well I could say that although the NYY's didn't win a championship during the time that Layden and Isiah were running the Knicks, them being a relevant team each year alleviated a lot of the distress that I carried as a Knicks fan.

Y'know, it's funny, no matter how bad this team's record has been, I still always look forward to watching the games. You take an interest in the specific dynamics, the coaching, each individual player, it gives you something to watch on a nightly basis. You hold out hope that any given year this franchise will put things together.

I think having a first round pick starting next season and going forward will really help this fanbase. We were a considerably worse team to watch last season, but a lot of Knicks fans got enjoyment out of looking forward to the lottery. This year has just been miserable.

As bad as the Knicks have been coming off that worst record in Knicks history last season, I'm happier than the teams we had under Isiah and Layden, the Isiah years were a farce with sexual harassment lawsuits, Marbury admitting he had sex with a Knicks intern, paying millions for long term contracts to Curry and James to sit on the bench and get fat and mortgaging the future trading your draft picks.

At least with Phil, he is trying to change the culture trying to bring in good citizens, not trading picks and being fiscally prudent giving out contracts. Dave DeBusschere's son is confident about Phil and said about PJ that Knicks fans have to give Phil 4 years and if we're still talking about a losing Knicks team then we'll know Phil has been a failure. I'm not as confident about PJ and I can't predict what happens in the future but Phil is at least doing some things that will make the Knicks better in the future.

tiger0330 said:

As bad as the Knicks have been coming off that worst record in Knicks history last season, I'm happier than the teams we had under Isiah and Layden, the Isiah years were a farce with sexual harassment lawsuits, Marbury admitting he had sex with a Knicks intern, paying millions for long term contracts to Curry and James to sit on the bench and get fat and mortgaging the future trading your draft picks.

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I dunno... they were winning more under those two numb-skulls, the sexual harrassments were fun to watch, and what was better then watching fat-fuk curry sitting on the end of the bench eating 1/2 dozen whoppers during a time out.. yep.. I long for those days...

tiger0330 said:

As bad as the Knicks have been coming off that worst record in Knicks history last season, I'm happier than the teams we had under Isiah and Layden, the Isiah years were a farce with sexual harassment lawsuits, Marbury admitting he had sex with a Knicks intern, paying millions for long term contracts to Curry and James to sit on the bench and get fat and mortgaging the future trading your draft picks.

At least with Phil, he is trying to change the culture trying to bring in good citizens, not trading picks and being fiscally prudent giving out contracts. Dave DeBusschere's son is confident about Phil and said about PJ that Knicks fans have to give Phil 4 years and if we're still talking about a losing Knicks team then we'll know Phil has been a failure. I'm not as confident about PJ and I can't predict what happens in the future but Phil is at least doing some things that will make the Knicks better in the future.

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There is no denying that the stuff that was happening at MSG during the Isiah era was appalling. Any person that sexually harasses another person at their work place deserves to be fired. There is also no denying that the Knicks being in salary cap hell with mostly overpaid players who were known to have losing careers was also disheartening.

But my argument is that the Knicks were 1 or 2 front office moves away at the time from turning the ship. As much as Isiah Thomas was Dolan’s golden boy there was no way that he was going to be given more time to make the Knicks into a greater embarrassment than what they were.

I think few people have been knocking PJ for trying to change the organization. As a GM or team president it is your job to clean up the mess that your predecessors left. I’m not trying to disrespect Phil, but it does not take a genius to trade away a few idiots on your roster who have contracts that are expendable. It doesn’t even take more than half a brain to not mortgage your future by giving teams your number 1 picks or giving underachieving players lucrative contracts of 4 years or more.

The fact that Phil Jackson 90% of the time has been on the wrong end of the trades that he has made is a testimony that this guy is either not a good negotiator or doesn’t know how to assemble the right talent. How desperate does an NBA executive have to be to give away one of the cornerstones of one of the best Knicks teams in a long time in a trade for a PG who has been god awful in the 2 years that he has been here and a center who is no longer in the league? Could PJ have gotten at least anything more for what he received in the JR Smith and Iman Shumpert trades? If JR and Shumpert were so valueless at the time that Phil traded them why did the Cavs re-sign them?

I know we can’t really evaluate the complete outcome of free agent signings in less than 1 year after they were signed, but with the exception of Robin Lopez the guys that Phil has given contracts to haven’t fallen that far from the tree that the guys that he has traded for have fallen from. Afflalo was signed to be a starter and isn’t able to give the Knicks any type of length as a starter. You might as well equate the contributions that O’quinn and Seraphin have given the Knicks with the contributions that Eddy Curry and Jerome James gave us 10 years ago.

The major plus that I give Phil Jackson credit for was listening to Clarence Gaines about Porzingis during the entire draft process. Other than that, Mr. Jackson has been an utter disappointment in the time that he’s been running the Knicks.

Is it possible that the Knicks in 4 years will be a competitive team in the Eastern Conference under Phil Jackson? I am not denying that it could happen but I think the odds are against us. First of all, Phil Jackson doesn’t seem like the guy whose heart would choose NY over LA if he was ever given the opportunity to help run the Lakers. I highly doubt that Phil is going to want to spend the twilight of his life running this organization for even 2 more years. Second of all, I don’t see any major talent wanting to join the Knicks through free agency. Durant, Lowry Westbrook or CP3 are not going to want to put their championship aspirations on hold to play with a non winning and aging Melo. Thirdly, you might as well throw in the white towel for the next couple of years if Rambis is given a contract to coach this team.

Another great post knicksin60. You should listen to this "Cut to the Chase" podcast, couple of frustrated Knicks fans letting off steam about Phil and other things, quote of the podcast, there is only one way to describe the job Phil has done in NY so far "an utter failure".

I'm looking for who Phil hires as the next head coach as very important to the direction and future of the Knicks. This guy thinks it will be Brian Shaw and calls the triangle a cult, hiring Shaw, Rambis and even Walton as opposed to Thibs tells you that playing the triangle is more important than getting a great player that might not fit in the triangle and getting a second rate coach that can run the triangle is more important than getting a great head coach.

https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/episode-39-mike-kurylo-uncle/id1050517561?i=365191807&mt=2

I thoroughly enjoy watching the rest of the league, all teams in contention of making the playoffs in particular. Matter of fact started the season doing so(as I usually do) and can't remember the last complete Knicks game I've watched this yr. Maybe the game vs the Wolves(we won) I think?

This team was trash day 1, still is and will be for a while unless something drastic changes. Naaaahhhhh you gotta earn my sticktoitedness as a fan I'm not gonna sell out and root for a team blindly as if I have no brain at all. Knicks haven't done right by us in yrs and think of all the wasted time and effort some of us have put in, only to be shamed by the end product.

Phil is responsible for these recent historic lows. No other way of looking at matters. We can fools gold it down if want but we'd only be catering to the inner disappointment looking for comfort. The only positive thing he's done is make himself available to the media and provided candor critiquing of the expired groceries in the cupboards.


If you watch more and more of the rest of the league the appreciation for the game of basketball would reach new heights and you'd demand a higher standard as a fan. Our franchise(NYK) should be the model of the league not small market teams like GSW and SAS, because at one point in time we clearly had the advantage and upper-hand over them. Times have changed and I think it's time some of you Knick fans get with the times and change how you view the game and sports franchises yourself. This is the honest truth

Broadway said:

I thoroughly enjoy watching the rest of the league, all teams in contention of making the playoffs in particular. Matter of fact started the season doing so(as I usually do) and can't remember the last complete Knicks game I've watched this yr. Maybe the game vs the Wolves(we won) I think?

This team was trash day 1, still is and will be for a while unless something drastic changes. Naaaahhhhh you gotta earn my sticktoitedness as a fan I'm not gonna sell out and root for a team blindly as if I have no brain at all. Knicks haven't done right by us in yrs and think of all the wasted time and effort some of us have put in, only to be shamed by the end product.

Phil is responsible for these recent historic lows. Not other way of looking at matters. We can fools gold it down if want but we'd only be catering to the inner disappointment looking for comfort. The only positive thing he's done is make himself available to the media and provided candor critiquing of the expired groceries in the cupboards.


If you watch more and more of the rest of the league the appreciation for the game of basketball would reach new heights and you'd demand a higher standard as a fan. Our franchise(NYK) should be the model of the league not small market teams like GSW and SAS, because at one point in time we clearly had the advantage and upper-hand over them. Times have changed and I think it's time some of you Knick fans get with the times and change how you view the game and sports franchises yourself. This is the honest truth

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it appears u are trying to say the knicks SUCK... u are so rite

I feel your pain. We all do. First thing New Yorkers need to do is stop going to Knicks games. There's no reason for Doland to change anything if he's selling out the arena each night. But let me back up. Things aren't nearly as bad as they were under Thomas, and this is coming from a man that was easy on Thomas. I was drinking the coolaid for a while, but looking back we paid players like Jerome James millions NOT to play. **** was crazy. This team isn't close to being that bad.

2nd point: The media sucks! They salivate over each loss. It's like laughing at old ladies falling down a flight of stairs. I've watched and read media coverage over bad teams for years but I've never see the joyful coverage over how laughably bad the Knicks are, even when it's not really that bad. We had one of the worse years in franchise history and now the Knicks are a 30 something wins team. Not a bad turnaround if you ask me. Not what we wont, but it's an improvement.

3rd point: Phil Jackson isn't the man for the job. I've thought long and hard about this one and I really wanted him to succeed, but there's a reason why no one uses the Triangle offense anymore. It's because it takes two seasons for players to learn. In this day and age you don't have two seasons to waist. We would have been better off keeping Mike Woodson than bringing on an untrained, unproven coach with no experience. Phil can prove me wrong if he brings in Tom Tibs, Mark Jackson or Patrick Ewing. Anyone that has a lot of experience and gets away from this complex system. Damn players aren't that smart anyway. Even if this squad can learn it, what happens when you bring in a few more all-stars? Do they need two years to mesh?

Lastly, I don't expect much from the Knicks while Phil is around. Just roll with the punches like everyone did when Thomas was running things. Handing the keys over to Steve Mills maybe a good move at this point. I think he'll be more adaptable than Phil.

donchris said:

I feel your pain. We all do. First thing New Yorkers need to do is stop going to Knicks games. There's no reason for Doland to change anything if he's selling out the arena each night. But let me back up. Things aren't nearly as bad as they were under Thomas, and this is coming from a man that was easy on Thomas. I was drinking the coolaid for a while, but looking back we paid players like Jerome James millions NOT to play. **** was crazy. This team isn't close to being that bad.

2nd point: The media sucks! They salivate over each loss. It's like laughing at old ladies falling down a flight of stairs. I've watched and read media coverage over bad teams for years but I've never see the joyful coverage over how laughably bad the Knicks are, even when it's not really that bad. We had one of the worse years in franchise history and now the Knicks are a 30 something wins team. Not a bad turnaround if you ask me. Not what we wont, but it's an improvement.

3rd point: Phil Jackson isn't the man for the job. I've thought long and hard about this one and I really wanted him to succeed, but there's a reason why no one uses the Triangle offense anymore. It's because it takes two seasons for players to learn. In this day and age you don't have two seasons to waist. We would have been better off keeping Mike Woodson than bringing on an untrained, unproven coach with no experience. Phil can prove me wrong if he brings in Tom Tibs, Mark Jackson or Patrick Ewing. Anyone that has a lot of experience and gets away from this complex system. Damn players aren't that smart anyway. Even if this squad can learn it, what happens when you bring in a few more all-stars? Do they need two years to mesh?

Lastly, I don't expect much from the Knicks while Phil is around. Just roll with the punches like everyone did when Thomas was running things. Handing the keys over to Steve Mills maybe a good move at this point. I think he'll be more adaptable than Phil.

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Fisher saying the same thing you are Donchris, takes time to learn the triangle and they don't have enough time to practice to perfect it and let me add you ideally need a stable roster of players and all PJ has is a revolving door of players and he's probably going to have 5 new faces on next years team that will have to take Triangle 101.

Fisher also said that Carmelo Anthony is happy with the development of Kristaps Porzingis, and noted that the traingle offense is tough to implement because there isn't as much extra time as there used to be.

"It's difficult to implement a system that requires so much terminology-wise, specific skill-set-wise, and it's not impossible to do it," Fisher said. "But I think it makes it more challenging for a team to develop during the course of the season compared to other teams who aren't asking that of their players."

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