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Thread: Maybe he's not a leader, but he is needed.

  1. #1
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    Default Maybe he's not a leader, but he is needed.

    If Marbury was an NFL QB, he would get the same critcism he has now as an NBA player. "He doen't share the ball" "Instead he scrambles for himself." All Nfl QB's need a favorite targets to throw to. The same can be said for PGs. Magic had Kareem, Wad has Shaq, Kidd had Kmart. Steph had Amare in that one good year he had in phoenix. The bext year Amare got hurt and never played until Steph got traded. Steph is not a great leader. But with out him we do not even have a chance to be competitive in a game. What would this team be like with Garnett and Marbury in NY. Or if Steph and Amare in NY. Why do you think Iverson is struggling the way he is. They have no favorite targets. PGs like them need a Legit Big man. Not a Nazr not a Dalembert. All "Great PGs" Need a big man. A big man would be such a distraction down low that Marbury will free to pronce along the perimeter and dish for the swingmen. Instead, Marbury is the focus and they will do anything to shut him down.

    But getting rid of him will hurt us more than anything, especially in the furture. There will not be anothe Shaq, or KG, or Duncan for a while. We just need a big man who is half of what shaq is and with Marbury at the helm it'll be a dealy combo.

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    good point.i remember last year he and doleac ran a nice pick and roll and in the begining of da season he and kt ran a pretty good one.i remember the buls championship teams they had servicable centres not dominant ones look what they accomplished.we have two guys that are potent scorers in sm and jc get a small forward like odom and keep our big men, imagine

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    very good post all around. Getting rid of Marbury is not a solution, we need to keep marbury. we need to keep crawford, Ariza, Sweetney. I think everything else needs to be upgraded. dont get me wrong I like kurt and Nazr and i like that they are good role players but they are not that BIG presence Steph and Craw need.

    Theres alot of options out there, teams struggling aswell looking for a change. Two teams come to mind Denver and Portland. The two trades that are possible. What about a Nazr Mohammed for Marcus Camby trade. They get a few years off their salary and a younger "big"man and we get Camby back. the bigs we need and possible marbury buddy. Portland, what about a Kurt Thomas & Tim Thomas for Shareef Abdur Rahim and Joel Pryzbilla (to even out the $). After that we let Moochie, Vin, Sundov, Brewer, Penny, eventually Williams and Houston deals expire. and we sign free agents that can help out our bench...people like Keon Clark, people like Eddie House. good cheap players....

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    nyknicks15, since when have u become an almighty expert that can claim whether something is a "very good post overall" or not. who gives a **** what you think? people dont need your affirmation about whether or not something was a good post.

    we need to keep marbur, keepy ariza, keep crawford, keep sweetney, get lebron, get amare, get yao, let houston's contract expire, as well as kurts, moochies, vin's, and all the others.

    thats what we need to do. we will be able to sign every big free agent in 2007. how?? i dont know, im just an idiot that always thinks that good things will happen somehow.

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    and it wont matter that marbury will be 30 in 2007 and his contract will almost be up. so it wont matter that we had marbury during the prime of his career but were not able to win any games with him. the golden boy that we would never wanna trade will have done nothing for us, and by the time we sign every big free agent in 2007 (again, it will just magically happen, im not sure how), he will be on a decline, and thats not that great, because hes not that great to begin with. look at kidd at 31, and hes 6'4 so he can afford to lose a little athleticism, but marburys entire game is based on athleticism.

    thats why we should trade marbury. hes a good player. but hes not going to carry this team on his back and lead them to victory. and its not like we are in "win now" mode. we dont want to mortgage the future if we arent even getting anything in the present.

    i guess we will never learn, theres too mnay morons who are hopelessly optimistic.

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    what is your problem? yelling at me isnt going to make the knicks better okay? and neither is it going to get your point across..except the point there u are a complete jack*** and that didnt end with ass. it ended with off.

    when did i become what? i never proclaimed to be that. Its called supporting peoples ideas. something you know nothing about. because you are the "almighty" one right. listen rookie you need to relax. and no im not saying that because you are disagreeing with my ideas. its because how you go about it. a lot of people criticize peoples ideas on the website but none of us are as big of a**holes bout it as you.

    and you called me an idiot who thinks thats going to happen right? say we get rid of everyones contracts by chance. we start from basically scratch. we get all expiring contracts. who do we go after? who do we get to fill up our spots on the roster? no free agents (according to u) are going to sign for only one-two-three years...so how are we can wipe of their salary and try to make a run at Yao, or Amare, or LeBron? oh by the way name me one team who will take houstons contract...even if you include marbury? you said it yourself hes not great

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    the lakers might do butler, b. grant (i think his contract is expiring soon), and a 1st rd. pick for k. thomas (a true PF - they need one, so odom can play the 3), and jerome williams (they need added depth at the 4 and 5).

    we were dumb enough to take hardaway's contract, and houston can still possibly put up better numbbers than hardaway did with us. so if we took harwaday, why cant some other team possibly take houston? i agree it might be hard, but there could be a sucker out there. portland might send us some expiring contracts - rahim and stoudamire and draft picks - telfair and outlaw in return. we shuold have done this at the beginning of the season,when all these guys had higher trade values and we were at the top ofthe atlantic. i was saying we should back then but nobody else thought so.

    im fuming about the vince carter deal that isiah was dumb enough not to do. he didnt even have to give up craw or marbury and he could have gotten rid of all these bad contracts and he still didnt do it.

    at this point, im not sure, but i still think we could unload if we wanted to. it will be harder because we are losing. and also we should give sweetney and ariza moe minutes and juice up their numbers to improve their trade value.

    there's plenty of free agents id love to get if we were under the cap. r. allen would be an upgrade over houston. redd is an upgrade over crawford. swift is an upgrade over thomas. curry is an upgrade over mohammad. thats four upgrades.

    the bottom line is, when u have good players that other teams want with fair salaries, you are in BETTER POSITION to make something happen. when orlando wanted to trade mcgrady, we may have been able to offer them something and get him. right now, we cant get anybody good or make anything good happen because our entire payroll is messed up. we dont have young talent that people want. we dont thave superstars that anybody wants. we have nothing. we need to start rebuilding.

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    thanks man for the "change of pace" haha.

    I REALLLLLLY like Caron Butler, especially after seeing him on the tonight show. he seems like a good guy and especially player which is a plus. but the deal would never work. Grants contract grows to 15.5 million in the 06-07 season. and thatd ruin the idea of getting cap space.

    I was trying to work out the portland/ny trade idea....and i got it to work up to where we could get rid of Kurt Thomas, Tim Thomas, Allan Houston, Nazr Mohammed FOR the expiring contracts of Theo Ratliff, Shareed Abdur-Rahim, Nick Van Exel and Joel Pryzbilla(well JP jsut to make it close) but i then subtracted the money wed save in the offseason and our cap salary is still at a big number in 62.9 million. we wouldnt be able to get free agents with that salary would we??? (i always get confused on how much you get to spend)....the salary cap is still 46.7 remember

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    Originally Posted by a knick fan
    and it wont matter that marbury will be 30 in 2007 and his contract will almost be up. so it wont matter that we had marbury during the prime of his career but were not able to win any games with him. the golden boy that we would never wanna trade will have done nothing for us, and by the time we sign every big free agent in 2007 (again, it will just magically happen, im not sure how), he will be on a decline, and thats not that great, because hes not that great to begin with. look at kidd at 31, and hes 6'4 so he can afford to lose a little athleticism, but marburys entire game is based on athleticism.

    thats why we should trade marbury. hes a good player. but hes not going to carry this team on his back and lead them to victory. and its not like we are in "win now" mode. we dont want to mortgage the future if we arent even getting anything in the present.

    i guess we will never learn, theres too mnay morons who are hopelessly optimistic.
    Actually PGs dont blossom till their older for some reason. Kidd and Nash had their best years at the age of 30+. PG's get better when their older.

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    Wow this is amazing... The knicks lose 12 out of 14 games and suddenly every player should be shipped out. The reason NY isnt winning right now is because they dont have heart, determination and chemistry. In order for them to gain all of this, they need to go through certain struggles. Right now their going through one. Sooner or Later their gonna realized they ****ed up bad, and then their going to start performing. Right now their just like crawford said, "caught up in the Matrix". The Knicks arent going to build chemistry if everyone wants to trade this person and trade that person... its just not going to work.
    And another thing I realized is that in every post where there is a trade, someone (including myself) always mentions the word WE. "We need to trade him..." "we should put him on the bench..." THERE IS NO WE I dont think that anyone on this website is apart of the knicks team, front office, medicall staff or etc. SO there is no we. Sorry if Im sounding very crazy, but im sure alot of you are feeling the same way. WE are fans, nothing else and nowadays Im really starting to doubt that as well...

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    first. no offense but i think the reason we (as in the people who post) refer to the knicks as we because that is our team. with no fans there would be no team. plus its alot easier then typing the knicks this the knicks that...especially when this is a knicks website...so we kinda are the knicks...

    and not to keep disagreeing but i think a lot of people including myself have been saying trade trade trade since day one. especially when isiah came into town. he has a plan (i think) and little by little it is unfolding. but i dont think his plan is to keep allan houston, norris, baker, thomas, penny and tim....people who dont produce or are aging with big contracts. theres no point in getting team chemistry when half the people on this team dont play. or when they do dont give 100%. we mind as well get some salary space by trading for expiring contracts to get fresh young players or trade for fresh new players with the little expiring contracts we have.....if we continue at this rate to gain chemistry by the time we get it allan will be in his 14th year, aswell as penny, baker and kurt wont be too far behind.

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    Yea I agree with JaDaMeL05,
    just look at the Bull's situation a little over a month ago. There were all these rumors of possible trades involving thier big-men because the team was slumping. Their chemistry finally kicks in, alot sooner than I expected, and all of a sudden, they're rolling..... They only lost two games last month.
    I'm not saying that something like that will happen for the Knicks, but it's a possibility. But no matter what, there is no doubt that the Knicks need to make some moves this summer.

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    yes the bulls were talking trade bout curry and chandler and thats becasue they had no pawns. and yes the bulls did get better. why tho? not becasue the team clicked because they added Deng, Gordon, and nioconi....heres the difference between the knicks and bulls. They have a front court and young athletic players, we dont. thats why we talk trade to get younger players or talk trade to get some cap space so we can get them.

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    didnt catch the last part of your post, yea we do need to make trades....im starting a discussion in the thread entitled "An organization in despair" if youd like to join

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    blumatic,

    isiah thomas retired when he was 33. since point guards get better as they get older, why did isiah retire at such an early age then? i think its been proven time and time again that biggerp layers last longer in the league than smaller players. the reason is simple: smaller guys rely on athleticism and quickness to be good, while bigger guys can often rely on size and power. of course, to have both quickness and power is the best, but still, that is the general idea. as you get older, you lose athleticism and quickness, but often times, you get stronger. a point guard who is strong is not going to be as good as a point guard who is quick, simply because a smaller guy who is strong for his size still isnt going to be able to dominate the inside against 300 pound 7 foot centers, he will need to rely on his quickness.

    when marbury will be 30, he will be on a decline. if you dont think so, then you are delusional. nash is not having that great of a year, hes just getting a lot of credit because hes got 2 of the 7 best players in the nba in amare and marion, and 2 of the best 3 point shooters in the nba in quentin richardson and joe johnson. so, yeah hes old and having a decent year, but its because of the other guys on his team. in terms of his own personal performance, hes on a decline. you watch and see. his numbers will fall off in the comming years. kidd - same thing, he got to play with kenyon and rj, and that improved his performance. but you watch and see how his numbers will fall off in the comming years.

    and its not just point guards, EVERY player hits his prime between 27-32, and declines after his early 30's. its just that smaller guys decline much quicker.

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