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Thread: Maybe he's not a leader, but he is needed.

  1. #16
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    you should never want to build a team around someone who is older than 30. yeah, miami has shaq, but actually i think wade is just as valuable or maybe even more to the heat than shaq. and shaq's contract is expiring soon, so its not as bad. miami's window of opportunity to win a championship will be the next 2-3 years, because after that, shaq will probably have become a 20-10 guy (hes only a little better than that right now) and not someone who can dominate the league anymore. and shaq is just an abnormal beast, most guys who are 35 (shaqs age in a couple of years) basically cant be counted on to lead a team to victory. kidd got a long term contract AT the age of 30 or 31, whatever it was. thats not good. will we keep marbury now till hes 30, and then sign him to a max. contract in 2007?? that would be very dumb. so all you people who propose we keep marbury while this team is very mediocre for the next few years think that he will the same golden boy to build around 3 years from now. new jersey made that mistake, we shouldnt make the same one.

  2. #17
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    The problem with Marbury is that he doesn't play defense, plays with no intensity, no drive, doesn't stick up for his teammates backs. He's talented no doubt, but he lacks these fundamentals.

    Look at the past Knicks teams. Oakley, Ewing, Starks, Derek Harper, Sprewell, McDaniel... etc. They all played with intensity and they always stuck up for one another. Like the recent game with Kenyon Martin. He was dunking the ball everywhere. Do you think past Knick teams would tolerate that? Hell no! They would knock him on his butt and get into his head. This Knicks team doesn't have the bad boy image in them. New York has always been a hustle and grinding team. Where has it gone??

  3. #18
    Veteran Trin_Starr's Avatar
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    My only statement i can make to this topic is that:
    It is possible for Marbury to be a leader of men....but when his team consists of boys what do you expect?!!!

    If H20 was playing like his old self, Stephon would be averaging 15+ assists a game, because H20's game is to cut around screens, catch the ball from the PG and make the shot......crawford on the other hand, when he gets the ball, he dribbles with it and so negates any assist from marbury......Stephon has been dealt a bad hand......it is simple as that......imagine if Marbury had a PF like Dirk, a SF like Finley or a SF like RJ and a PF like Martin - wouldn't them make his life easier as it has done Nash's and Kidd's???
    But wait he has TT......or Crawford (39% FG shooter) ......he has no supporting cast......how can you be a leader with no one to lead????

    Compare that to team where if Marbury was the PG, and he had H20 as SG, Spree as SF, KT as PF and Ewing as C..........then you guys wouldn't be talking ****.......when are you people going to understand that he has no one!

  4. #19
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    I agree that the supporting cast is weak overall. Crawford and Ariza are the young, bright spots on a team with an overpaid bunch of average at best players. Marbury would have better stats with a team consisting of more talented players, no doubt. This summer there will be alot going on in terms of trades etc.. When it comes down to it, hold on to Marbury, Crawford, and Ariza. Use everyone else to get the rest of the pieces to the puzzle.

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    Default They need serious help....

    This team is in need of a serious overhaul. Is the front office going to find a real coach and some players. I have a lot of respect for Lenny Wilkens but his time has come and gone. And, by the way he has lost almost as much as he won. The biggest problem is TOM DOLAN, this dip**** has ruined the NY Rangers and he won't be happy until he ruins another franchise. Well guess what Dolan your job is done. They are too many obvious problems, maybe what the knicks need is a guy like steinbrenner to run the team. Then maybe somehow they can get some marquee players and build a real team. I truly miss the early 90's when we had Ewing, Oakley, and anyone on their roster then..


    Originally Posted by WiL8000
    I agree that the supporting cast is weak overall. Crawford and Ariza are the young, bright spots on a team with an overpaid bunch of average at best players. Marbury would have better stats with a team consisting of more talented players, no doubt. This summer there will be alot going on in terms of trades etc.. When it comes down to it, hold on to Marbury, Crawford, and Ariza. Use everyone else to get the rest of the pieces to the puzzle.

  6. #21
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    I agree...Sorta. You're only as good as the sum of your parts. Marbury continually fails when any sort of pressure is placed on him. Vince Carter has hepled a Nets team win that compared to the Knicks, let's face it...Stink. Carter has elevated his play, rebs better, assists more, his blks are up as well. That's what good players do. They exceed are expectations when normal guys would quit. TMac, Kobe, AI, and now VC wants some shine too. Marbury needs to grow up. He seems to not be responding to the coddle-fest in NY. He needs to be more accountable. Sure he doesn't have Shaq. So what, that's the case for 30 other teams. The Bocats have been blown out less than the Knicks. Questions we should all be asking:

    1. Could we move Marbury for someone serviceable in order to get some cap relief?

    2. Do Marbury's positives outweigh the negatives?

    I think everyone knows I would like to see him go. He is extremely inconsistent and

  7. #22
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    first its james dolan and second he hasnt done anything really. our GM does everything. and right now because i want to see whats isiahs "plan" is...the only person we can complian about is scott layden that pos.

    second we cant live in the past. it was a great point bout ewing and a healthy houston but were stuck with what we have. so we have to work with it or look to the future.

    Out future does reside with crawford, ariza and sweetney. I love marbury and would love to keep him. but unless we only trade for better players we wont be able to keep him in signing free agents.

    a knick fan gave me the logical idea to looking into the future stating the only way to succeed is by getting cap space. so really there are two ways to do it. with marbury and trade for better players or with without marbury and start fresh with young free agents.....whats ur guys decision?

  8. #23
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    crawford is a mixed bright spot - shot selection sucks and his D isnt super. hopefully hell want to improve those and if he does hell be a star

  9. #24
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    Default Isiah, Dolan, and Layden

    Yeah Yeah I realized when I wrote tom dolan I had made a mistake. Anyway, what is the deal with this team??? They can't win a friggin game, I am so disgusted right now to be a Knick fan. I can't even bear to watch a game. Isiah doesn't know what to do with this team. I like and respect Herb Williams, but he certainly isn't the answer. Isiah really needs to pursue Phil Jackson, who everyone knows can coach. I am so sick of seeing Isiah looking over the shoulder of Williams or anyone else on the team. Either step in and coach the team, as you claim to be such a successful coach. Well, then step up and save this team from total disaster. And, Allan Houston healthy or not doesn't help this team. He was the worst deal the Knicks have ever made. For the amount of money he gets paid he should be an all star every year. SO, how many all star appearances does he have? 1. He sucks, he can't play defense, and when was the last time he took over a game? I am so sick of hearing about how if he was healthy the Knicks would be sooooo much better. That is such bull****, why do you think no other team will even look at him. ANSWER: He doesn't produce anything for the team. Well, enough is enough and Isiah better do something drastic soon otherwise we will be waiting for yet another lottery pick. And then trade that away to another team knowing him. Ahhhhh **** Isiah, Dolan, and Layden you guys all suck the big one!!!

    Originally Posted by NYKnicks15
    first its james dolan and second he hasnt done anything really. our GM does everything. and right now because i want to see whats isiahs "plan" is...the only person we can complian about is scott layden that pos.

    second we cant live in the past. it was a great point bout ewing and a healthy houston but were stuck with what we have. so we have to work with it or look to the future.

    Out future does reside with crawford, ariza and sweetney. I love marbury and would love to keep him. but unless we only trade for better players we wont be able to keep him in signing free agents.

    a knick fan gave me the logical idea to looking into the future stating the only way to succeed is by getting cap space. so really there are two ways to do it. with marbury and trade for better players or with without marbury and start fresh with young free agents.....whats ur guys decision?

  10. #25
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    i keep saying whats need is a do everything small forward like pippen go after lamar odom

  11. #26
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    I finally know why Marbury hasnt been successful or lead a good team. Well first of all he has not benn on any good teams with good veteran players. But also he is a #2 palyer. A great one at that. He is, get this, a Scottie Pippen. A great player who can't win by himself. Pippen and Steph are leaders but # 1 guy type leaders. Pippen would never lead the Bulls like Jordan had. But Jordan could win with out Pippen. Marbury will not lead this team say like, a Kevin Garnett (I say his name a lot b/c I would love for him to come to the Knicks). Can you Imagine? Those to together again but in NY. Our team will probably be complete. All we would need is just some cheap player who can shott and defend. Oh, its nice to dream.

  12. #27
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    yo first of all kg and steph wouldnt be good together.....kg was the reason steph left the timberwolves....everyone should know that.....and all u people who are dissin allan houston, honestly i think u guys became knicks fans like yesterday cuz u guys dont understand how much houston meant to the knicks. he doesnt show a lot of aggression but even today he works hard every day so i wouldnt say stuff about him. u guys notice how every team marbury has played for was horrible and once marbury left the team became awesome?? look at the timberwolves, nets wen kidd came, and suns wen nash came....and i also dont think this is a coincidence....get stephon marbury out of new york. as "thegoldglover" said, u gotta get the tough players back in new york. and i really liked jeff van gundy's defensive minded structure. notice how we used to be the #1 defensive team in the league when van gundy was here. also, as much as phil jackson is an amazing coach, he wouldnt fit the knicks. honestly, do ANY of you think stephon marbury (pg) has the patience to go thru the triangle? HELLL NO!! thank you

  13. #28
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    Sorry Blu, but I'd hate to leave Marbury in a room with KG. The odds of Marbury coming out alive would be slim to nil. You're aware that KG HATES Steph right? So for KG to come here, Marbury would have to be moved. Phil Jackson here wouldn't work. Simply from the standpoint that the Knicks playing the triangle?? To run that we'd need a dominant SG or C. That where the scoring is supposed to come from in that system (MJ, Kobe and Shaq). Hey Flynn, you might wanna try decaf. Where have you been the last oh....5 - 10 yrs? Did they have TV? Everyone knows Dolan and Layden have screwed this team up. So why are you mad at Isiah Thomas? Do you think he'll be able to wave his magic wand and POOF!! We win a championship? This is a "Rebuilding period". If you're not willing to wait for things to develop, then there are other teams in the Association to cheer for (unless there is currently someone holding you at gunpoint or ransoming a loved one unless you cheer for the Knicks). Yeah Houston contract sucks, but that's life. I think the Knicks should buy him out at 60% of his remaing contract at 25 mil. This would free up cap room, cause Shandon, John Amaechi come of the books as well. Then Penny, Moochie and TT are one year away from being goners as well. With cap room we can finally go get real pllayers.

  14. #29
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    i AGREE with dr. carpy. i think he's the most logical one out there. dr. carpy, THANK YOU! u make so much sense dude. everyone listen to dr. carpy

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    kg is a lover not a fighter. he seems like a pretty easy guy to get along with who is willing to give relationships second chances. i saw him greet marbury (i forgot where - it was either an all star game or before a knicks-timberwolves game), and the way they greeted each other, it definetely seemed like they could easily get along with each other. its really pretty simple, if you win, people get along and their differences are put aside. if you lose, those little differences become important. marbury and kg were young and weren't good enough at that time to win, and thats why their relationship soured. i think they could play well together. BUT, its silly to think we could get KG. how in the world is that going to happen??

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