TRADES GOOD OR BAD??

TRADES GOOD OR BAD

  • GOOD!! thanks isiah

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • BAD!! thanks for the debt zeke

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    0

a knick fan

Benchwarmer
how old is petro? 19? hes not gonna produce for at least a couple of years (probably not until his rookie contract is up). i really dont know much about him, but if he's not dominating in Europe, he's not going to be a factor in the NBA for a long time. he's going to be a "project". kwame brown, for example, who was drafted first out of high school, wasn't very useful to the wizards. what did they get out of picking him?

i'm hoping isiah (who does seem to be good at evaluating talent - he drafted ariza and kept sweetney and traded away maciej lampei in that phoenix trade) will be good at evaluating talent. i'm high on hakim warrick, just because i'm somewhat familir with him. he's very athletic and would make a prototypical SF in the nba. im all for getting draft picks and building a young team from the draft.

but, isiah is a making a mess out of those trades hes making. maurice taylor, malik rose - those are guys like jerome williams. yeah, they play tough and are good at defense and blah blah blah. but, at the end of the day, they are not difference makers and dont really become a significant factor in helping you win ball games. we dont need THREE of those high energy guys at PF in jyd, taylor, and rose. that houston trade was terrible. and i cant believe we actually gave up a draft pick on that one. first we picked up a horrendous contract and we gave up a draft pick as well (not to mention expiring contracts)????? just to get an overpaid below average PF???

first we had a clogged payroll. now, on top of that, we have a clogged roster (at PF). and an even more clogged payroll.
 

Brian_Coleman_21

Rotation player
I agree, with the point that I would rather pick guys that I am familiar with. But like you said, Isiah is good at evaluating talent and if he likes what he sees from Petro he will make the right decision.
 

mdelton

Rookie
Few trades are completely good or bad, this one mostly bad



I definately like Malik Rose as a player, he is decent offensively and a strong defender and rebounder. He is very Charles Oakley like. And even though it will be small, I like the starting frontline of Thomas in the Middle, Malik at the PW.

However, what the heck is Isiah doing?

Trading our one legit center, even if he was very inconsistent.

I like Rose, but we already have K. Thomas, M Sweetney and J. Williams.

Sure I like Mo Tayler better than Baker and Moochie, but why? He does not play D, and he is our 5th power forward now? I would have just cut Baker and Moochie at seasons end and pay off their deals rather than take back Mo taylors deal through next season.

Yes, I would like to think that Isiah is thinking that far ahead (like a master chess player) and he will try to package two lower picks, plus our lottery pick and maybe even Sweetney or Ariza or expiring contracts to move us up to the top of the draft or get us a marquis player fro another team via sign and trade. But, I do not have that confidence. Isiah was awesome on the floor, and not a bad coach. But while I commend him for shaking up the team last year and for trading untradeable players like Ward, and Eisley and turning them into Marbury - his other work at GM has not been so good.

Bad move #1 - Hiring Lenny Wilkens
I know the thought here was the development of Marbury, but Lenny has not improved Steph's game and made him more of a team player. And paying Lenny $5MM per year, what the heck was Zeke thinking. We need a coach that will coach D.

Bad Move #2 - trading Van Horn for Tim Thomas and Nazh Mohameed
This deal was not bad, but I thought that the whole idea was to get Mohmammed, now Mohammed is gone and we only have T. Thomas. Yes we have draft choices and now Malik Rose, but we already have three otehr players like Rose. so here we are over a year later and the team is no better. Will the draft choices acquired in this deal pay off, we won't know until are earliest next season.

I don't think Zeke has a plan, I think he is emotioanl and reactionary. For some reaosn he had a probelm with Shandon anderson, no one else in the league ever had a problem with Shandon Anderson.

I think Zeke should fire himself as President and GM and just coach the team. He made a lot of this mess, let him fix it. Besides, I think he would be a good caoch for Mabury. Also no other good coach will come to NY and work for Zeke, he micromanages too much.

Mark :hoops:
 

a knick fan

Benchwarmer
yeah - he DOESNT really have a set plan, despite what he tries to make others beleive. was his plan really to acquire maurice taylor??? i mean, come on. he is so lost. he is pissing in his pants. he's just trying to save face.

he will never fire himself, his ego is too big. james dolan needs to fire him before he makes more of a mess. dolan should end thomas' misery for him and end his tenure here.
 

DownUnderKnick3

Benchwarmer
a knick fan said:
yeah - he DOESNT really have a set plan, despite what he tries to make others beleive. was his plan really to acquire maurice taylor??? i mean, come on. he is so lost. he is pissing in his pants. he's just trying to save face.

he will never fire himself, his ego is too big. james dolan needs to fire him before he makes more of a mess. dolan should end thomas' misery for him and end his tenure here.
And what would firing Isiah do, just set us back even more.

We would just be starting another rebuilding plan and we have just begun this one.

I say give him another season.
 

mdelton

Rookie
Unfortunately I think you are right, Isiah does not have a plan no matter what he tries to make others think.
The team looked pretty good tonight against Indiana. And I have to say that Kurt did a much better job defensively in the middle than Nazh did.
I did notice that in nine minutes on the floor that Rose got 8 rebounds.
I could possibly see this Rose thing, but Mo Taylor makes less than zero sense.
 

mdelton

Rookie
I think that Isiah should listen to his own comments and I wonder if he would find himself dilusional.

All teams in the east play with an undersized center, except, Miami, Cleveland......

Some of the best picks came late in the first or in the second round.....sorry Isiah, just becasue you got lucky with Ariza that does not extrapolate into every late choice being a good one.
 

NYKnicks15

Starter
let the guy do his job. what has he done wrong? clogged a payroll that was already up the ass prior. i guarantee you NO GM would last in NY or do what you want by trading away everyone to clear salary space its not going to happen. its a lost cause.

the houston trade was weak. we did get rid of a old not producing PF/C and a bench warming PG that didnt produce for a overpaid PF. Who cares. Hell just sit on the bench just like Baker and Norris.

But trading away Nazr was nothing big literally. hes 6'10. Kurt Thomas is 6'9 and plays better C. Nazr was originally billed as a PF. He had no strength and couldnt defend against bigger guys. I like the San Antonio trade very much and im very fond of Malik Rose. and further more the 2 draft picks.

Why do we need guys we are familiar with? Big names dont make great players. Did you know of HS Tracy McGrady before Isiah picked him and made him a household name? Did people have faith in Isiah when he traded Dale Davis to Portland for 2 year bench warmer Jermaine O'Neal? cmon give the guy a chance. yea yea im sure you could do better someone who didnt even know who Mo Taylor was until he looked him up when he was the Houston Rockets starting PF for a year or two. lets see what he does and lets take it for what it is. by my count since the trade deadline we are 2-0 and have won by atleast 10. mo taylor played 4 minutes and scored a bucket. Malik scored a basket and had 8 rebounds in 9 minutes.
 

NYKnicks15

Starter
yes all centers are undersized in the east except for Miami and a few others like he said. Can you name one dominant Center in the east thats over 6'9 or over?? three Shaq, Iglauskas and Wallace (and wallace IS 6'9)
If he would of said dominant centers hed be correct...so a little mistake there. shame

no offense but you have to do your research past last years draft. ill just name a few late1st round/2nd round picks....

Josh Howard of Dallas #29
Kyle Korver and Willie Green of Philly #41 & #51
Teyshaun Prince of Detroit #23
Carlos Boozer of Utah #35
Gerald Wallace of Charlotte #25
Jamaal Tinsley of Indiana #27
Tony Parker of SA #28
Gilbert Arenas Washington #31
Mehmet Okur #38 from Utah'
Morris Peterson of Toronto #21
Primoz Brezec of Charlotte #27
Marko Jaric of LA #30
Michael Redd #43 of Milwaukee
AKirilenko #24 Utah
Gordan Giricek #40 Utah
Emanuel Ginoboli #57 San Antonio

just name a few and that only goes back to 1999, and #20 or deeper 8)
 

mdelton

Rookie
You make some good points. And i have to say the more I look at the Mohammed for Rose and two draft picks, that could be a great deal for the Knicks becasue though small I do like KT in the middle and Rose at the four.

But the Houston trade was horrible! I do not care about Brewer or Baker, but taking back more $$$, and giving away a second, that rade made no sense. And I certainly know who Mo Taylor is, the guy can play serious offense, but he struggles to stay in a lineup because he play no D.

By the way, I never prosposed that we should be cutting the cap and getting rid of players to get under it. Doing that does not work for anyone who doubts this look up Chicago and Atlanta. And do not think that it worked in Denver. Denver's saving grace was that they drafted a guy named Carmello and the one FA they were able to sign was Andre Miller. They did have enough cap space to force the Nets to trade Martin, but getting under the cap to sign FA's has never really worked. The clsoest one came was Orlando and becasue of Grant Hill's injuries that took him out for three years, it never really worked their either.
 

NYKnicks15

Starter
no no MDelton that wasnt directed to you...knick fan knows what im talking about its a long on going discussion between us haha sorry bout not making that clear....

yea the San Antonio trade was a major plus. youll see that after the draft and even before then when seeing the ability, defense, hustle and grittyness of Malik if your not familiar with his work.

yes most definetely. the houston trade was disgustingly bad. its not the money that bothers me. frankly because without him wed still be way over the cap and i dont sign his paychecks. Dolan does...i could care less about Baker or Norris BUT there expiring contracts would of been more important elsewhere. but it is what it is and were stuck with it. heres the thing i found funny was Thomas flat out said the most coveted thing about Taylor is his expring contract...so dont expect him to be here too long or a big minute player.
 

mdelton

Rookie
One thing that fans who say "Clear Cap" forget is that when you look at Rose's deal and what remains, you would have had to sign Mohammed for at least that much at the end of this season. So in that deal one could argue that the Knicks did not really take back any additional salaries. Also, Rose's deal expires when he is 34, so we will not be paying him into his way past prime years as we obviously are with A. Houston. But that last one was A Scott Layden mistake.
 

DownUnderKnick3

Benchwarmer
That's a very good point that we probably would of had to pay Muhammed the same or more then what Rose gets and if we didn't he could walk for nothing.
 

mdelton

Rookie
The more I look at this Mohammed for Rose and draft picks trade the more I like it. I don't expect a 6:7 (I hope he is really that tall, I keep getting flashbacks of Clarence Weatherspoon 6:7 really only 6:5) power forward to be our savior. However, it may be a little ealry to tell, but Rose may bring that much needed locker room and floor leadership. That has been missing since the days of Charles Oakley. We had it for a short while after that during our playof run in 98 with Terry Cumming and Buck Williams, it is an intangible that makes a difference. K Thomas, who I love and is a more talented player than Rose, however, is not a floor leader.
 

NYKnicks15

Starter
good point of view. and hes right to a tee. Malik Rose by no means is a savior. nor is he going to probably start anytime soon. BUT he brings experience. and I know your saying we have people on the team playing longer than he has. YES but no one has been on a team quite like the San Antonio Spurs nor have won 1 let alone 2 rings. As much as I dislike the Spurs they are equipt in every aspect. They know how to play good fluid ball with dignity and more importantly they know how to play D. This guy will give us a great boost off the bench and more importantly give us a good boost in morale/locker room attitude. And I dont care if the mans paid 750k or 15 million aslong as they bring energy and hardwork to this team im all for it...the 2 picks dont hurt either :lol:
 

mdelton

Rookie
actually I kind of like him starting along side KT. He is better at this stage of his career than Sweetney and better offesively than Jerome Williams. And Mo Taylor can't even spell D.
 
Top