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Thread: We may have the perfect coach

  1. #16
    Veteran Peach_NYK_21's Avatar
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    In reference to Bob Knight.. did he ever coach in the NBA, if not, i doubt he would start now.

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    why not, mike k. was thinking about leaving duke for the lakers after coaching college only for such a long time...and i think for the right amount of money, you never know, he might take it. many college coaches have made an attempt to coach in the nba after having long, illustrious careers at the college level. but yeah, i havent heard any rumor that hes even remotely interested in coaching in the nba. it could be a feel good story though, since he was isiah's old coach at indiana, and i remember isiah defended bob knight when others were getting on him, saying "i hope he never changes". so there definetely seems to be mutual respect between the two.

    basically, all im saying, is that basketball, like any other sport, is supposed to be entertainment for fans. bob knight would provide much more entertainment, and develop much more interest in the knicks than herb williams would. theres no denying that. people watch wrestling on tv because its entertainment. imagine if the characters were very bland and never did anything interesting, would people still watch wrestling, even if they were very good "technical wrestlers"? if for nothing else, the knicks should do it from a business point of view. also, hes supposedly a very good coach, and does seem to be able to instill some fear in some young players. for example, maybe he could push tim thomas and help him achieve his maximum potential by really getting on him.

  3. #18
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    Bob Knight is like PJ Carlesimo. PJ didn't work in the league, neither would Knight. If he ever got offered a job now (it'd never happen), I think he'd get tuned out by the players after his first big tirade. Depending on who's coaching, is how we draw free agents. Players may come to play for Phil or Brown. If a coach is going to be successful, he has to have the support of management. If this happens, said coach can implement their system. Mo Cheeks had this lack of support happen, and he got the axe. I mean, so did Lenny Wilkens. Except Mo Cheeks had a better system, GM John Nash, Zach Randolph & Darius Miles did in.

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    bob knight was isiah's old coach. he will DEFINETELY have the support of management. what the hell are you talking about? in fact, he is probably one of the few guys that can actually dictate isiah more than isiah would dictate him. there's probably no other coach who would have support from management MORE than bob knight.

    pj carleismo was working with spurs last i remember, as an assistant coach, wasnt he? so hes doing fine. what about don chaney, he never got in players faces, and hes out of the league too. does that mean if you dont get in players faces, you will be out of this league? to say that one type of coach cant last in league based on one example (pj carlesimo) is ridiculous. because there's at least one coach with every different type of personality who has succeeded, and who has failed, in this league. and actually, i think if you look at the best coaches in the league, there is a sort of "brick wall" between the coaches and the players a little bit, where the coaches aren't buddy buddy with the players. phil jackson, i doubt, ever hung out with shaq and kobe, he probably did his own thing after the game. mo cheeks wouldnt be a good fit at all. the reason he had a lack of support was because he established a lack of authority and tried to be too much of a "players coach". thats what happens when you kiss up the playes too much, they start developing attitudes and dont even respect you (like miles who didnt respect cheeks). and thats why i dont think flip saunders would be a great fit either, since marbury likes him, he might try to suck up to him and be less of a "coach" and more of a "friend". its a players league, and the coaches (at least the weak ones) often recognize that and play second fiddle to the players. the GOOD coaches establish their own authority and keep themselves at a level ABOVE the players.

    and dont say bob knight is the same as pj carlesimo. bob knight commands much more respect. and he wouldnt take anybody's ****. if spreewell tried to choke bob knight, bob knight would choke him back, or worse. and i can BET that no player would ever dare to choke knight in the first place. so they aren't the same. dont make those silly comparisons. no two people on this planet are the same.

    im not saying knight would necessarily be an amazing coach, but i think its worth a try. its true, maybe players wouldnt react well to his tirades. but, who knows, maybe they would. ive never met bob knight, and im not a gm. so i dont have first hand info on exactly the kind of person he is, and how well a guy like marbury or crawford would react to him.

    even if it didnt work out so well, im sure it would improve ratings and definetely generate interest in the knicks. hes an entertaining guy. thats what basketball is supposed to be, entertainment. from a public relations and business point of view, it would be a great move by the knicks.

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    Veteran Peach_NYK_21's Avatar
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    its hard to tell how Herb is effecting the team as of right now.. if we get to see him as our coach next season, then we can see how he reacts to a clean slate, i feel Herb deserves a brand new start

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    Mo Cheeks got fired because the idiot GM gave Zach Randolph an 83 Mil extension and Darius Miles an even more foolish 47 Mil Extension. So please don't tell me Cheeks can't coach. He got a fine this year and his players paid the fine. Notice how much worse Portland is since he left? Oh by the way, Phil Jackson is considered a "Player's coach". I feel Bob Knight is past his prime for the NBA. The days of screaming at your players is over. The players make way more than the coaches and GMs. Let's face it, it easier to fire one coach or gm than it would be to fire a team. Please read what I say. PJ and Knight have SIMILAR styles. I get that no two people are the same. I just think the Knicks should find a coach that they perceive will be with the team for a while. Can you honestly see Marbury, KT, or H20 taking orders from Bobby Knight? I can't. I personally don't want anymore experiments from the Knicks. I want them to bring in the right personnel to re-cultivate a culture of winning. Knight to me would be a step back from that. Them mecca of basketball needs more than Knight has. He is a career college coach. The system he ran at Indiana and now Texas Tech would never fly in the NBA. If that was the case somebody would have brought him to the league years ago. If he attempted to choke any pro athlete they'd find him in the Hudson. Oh by the way I know that Knight coached IT. Again try to follow what I write if you need clarifican PM me. You know what they say about assuming right? Makes an ass out u & me. When I was taking about support of the gm & ownership I didn't mention anybody in particular. So please don't get it twisted. I don't think that we need a sideshow on the sidelines either. Sometimes with lack of offense, we don't some idiot coach giving away points with technicals. Just a thought.

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    so bob knight, according to you, is some idiot coach who just yells orders? he doesnt actually know any basketball. when he led indiana to ncaa championships, he just got lucky. isiah thomas respects him for no reason whatsoever. mike k. of duke respects him for no reason whatsoever and speaks very highly of him just because he wants to be nice.

    tell me, what "system" exactly does he use at texas tech? why will that system not work in the nba?

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    some coaches r suited for the nba others college,i dont the men of da nba will respond to knight like the boys of college.even rick pitino who drafted his own players couldnt get them to win in the nba. the knicks are playing hard now under williams. the other night against miami(a clearly superior team they almost puled it off one last second shot beat them.even though we had ppl who were 6'6" and 6'9" guarding a guy who is like 7'2"). we have a good basketball mind on our bench who studied under great coaches im sure if he could pick his asst coaches he would fare even better.the other coaches may have a hell of a lot prestige but they dont have knicks last in the division talking playoffs.me personally,and this is just my opinion,feel as though we have the perfect coach. just get a damn center and some more young legs

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    thats the problem, people just think that college coaches cant coach in the nba, but i think that is more the perception than the reality.

    its just that nobody ever gives them enough time. pitino and calipari, for example, didnt have great rosters. nobody expected them to win an nba title. its just that they had so much success at the college level that they thought they would immediately be successful in the nba. when that didnt happen, people thought it was because that person was a "college coach". if phil jackson or larry brown came to the knicks right now, and they played .500 ball, would you say that they were good coaches or bad coaches?? you cant just judge a coach by how many games his team wins, you have to understand that there's only so much a coach can do, if his players just dont have the talent, it will be inevitably hard to win a lot of games.

    its just a bad reputation that college coaches have gotten. i really dont think its true. are you saying nba coaches are "smarter"? i dont think so. are they more "knowledgeable"? no, i dont think so. do they know hoto manage "men" instead of "boys" better? no. if you a smart guy, you can suceed at the nba level OR the college level. the problem with the nba level, though, is that there are so many other variables that are out of the coaches hands, that really, it almost solely depends on the coaches circumstances in which he enters his job that will determine if he will be considered a good coach.

    thats the whole knock on phil jackson - that he always just has good players and good situations and management thats willling to spend money. he's won 9 titles, but hes always had a really good situation that hes been in. being recognized as a coach, i think, is about 80% just what kind of situation you have around you. EITHER a college coach or an nba coach could succeed with the knicks. i cant stand people who just look at the the way things are just by looking at the surface. "oh, a college coach hasnt won an nba title, so that means college coaches arent good in the nba". thats retarded. they've all been on teams that were in rebuilding mode. how can you expect them to do any good? i bet if someone like mike k. of duke came to the spurs and coached them, he'd win a lot of games and have a good shot at the title. would that then make him a good coach? what if instead he took a job with the bobcats and for 5 years they stunk and played .500 ball at best? would that make him a bad caoch?

  10. #25
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    I think that Bob Knight would be somewhat succesful in the NBA. If we are in the "rebuilding process" then yes I would want him to come (doubt he would though) and would be pretty good but as of right now I want to see what Herb can do with what Peach said a clean slate. He has really stressed defense to this team and they have responded pretty well. I think we should let Herb coach next season and see how he does.

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    Mo Cheeks got fired because the idiot GM gave Zach Randolph an 83 Mil extension and Darius Miles an even more foolish 47 Mil Extension.

    randolph is a young, talented big man that can average 20 and 10. hes arguably better than boozer, and boozer got a big contract with utah as well. in fact, name ONE big man that is young and can get 20 and 10 a game that DOESNT have a big contract. teams like utah and portland tradtionally have a tough time attracting/keeping players, so they have to overpay them. randolph is not even overpaid, compared so of the other contracts out there. miles is like a tim thomas, lots of talent, good size at the SF position. its a little bit of a gamble, but portland isnt the first team to gamble on a player like that. isiah thomas gambled on tim thomas. and hes not a total slouch, hes putting up decent numbers, and definetely can get better. 3 years from now his contract might look cheap.

    So please don't tell me Cheeks can't coach. He got a fine this year and his players paid the fine. Notice how much worse Portland is since he left?

    i never said cheeks cant coach. hes not a good coach, hes not a bad coach., in my opinion. im just saying that being a "players" coach doesnt necessarily work in your favor, and being a "screamer" doesnt necessarily work against you. either style can work. it all just depends on the situation, the individual coach, his players, the management, and bunch of other factors. if cheeks players loved him so much, why didnt they fight every night, night in and night out for him. once i saw on espn tim legler saying that portland has been underachieving the last few years. they have some decent talent, and just never produced. nobody would say that portland has done BETTER than what anyone expected, either about the same or WORSE. so the coach there obviously hasn't done a miraculous job.

    Oh by the way, Phil Jackson is considered a "Player's coach". I feel Bob Knight is past his prime for the NBA. The days of screaming at your players is over. The players make way more than the coaches and GMs. Let's face it, it easier to fire one coach or gm than it would be to fire a team.

    phil jackson commands a lot more respect from players than mo cheeks, whether it is deserved or not, that can be argued about. hes not afraid to take shots at players (like he did at kobe, and basically just wrote a book about the last season giving reasons for why the lakers didnt win (blaming everyone else except himself)). do you think mo cheeks could handle shaq and kobe together? nobody at texas tech seems to be having a problem with bob knight's intensity. i havent heard any incidents of players forming a mutiny against him. he seems to be doing very well with that program. he's past his prime? then what about phil jackson, who is almost 60? what about larry brown, who is what, almost 70? are they past their primes as well? is he past his prime because he cant recruit superstar players to come to a relatively no name school like texas tech and win ncaa championships year in and year out? i dont think hes past his prime at all.


    Please read what I say. PJ and Knight have SIMILAR styles. I get that no two people are the same. I just think the Knicks should find a coach that they perceive will be with the team for a while. Can you honestly see Marbury, KT, or H20 taking orders from Bobby Knight? I can't.

    like i said, similar styles dont mean anything. one coach who is a screamer might do very well while another might not. knight stayed at indiana for a very long time, why couldnt he stay with the knicks for a long time as well? isiah is definetely going to think twice about ending knight's stint with the knicks prematurely if things go badly for a little while. knight doesnt give orders just for the sake of giving orders to fullfill his big ego. he usually has a POINT. and many of his tirades are usually directed at the REFEREES. hes just an intense guy. when you have someone with intensity coaching you, you can sometimes want to work harder and play more intenseely. you are less likely to slack on defense, because you know that you will hear about it from a guy like bob knight. a guy like herb or lenny wilkens seems to laid back to ever get in your face if you dont play D. that could help a guy like marbury. with isiah in knights corner, guys like marbury would HAVE to listen to knight. and, at the end of teh day, if your team WINS GAMES, nothign else matters, and trust me, if the knicks start winning with knight as the coach, everything will be gracy and the players will definetely continue to respond to him. they are grown men, they are suppose to be more mature. if knight knows what hes talking about and gets mad for a reason, maybe it will dawn upon the players that maybe hes actually right.


    I personally don't want anymore experiments from the Knicks. I want them to bring in the right personnel to re-cultivate a culture of winning. Knight to me would be a step back from that.


    knight could very possibly be the answer we are looking for. its just a difference of opinion if someone thinks knight would be bad for the knicks and another person thinks that he could be good.


    Them mecca of basketball needs more than Knight has. He is a career college coach. The system he ran at Indiana and now Texas Tech would never fly in the NBA. If that was the case somebody would have brought him to the league years ago.

    maybe knight didnt want to come to the nba. im willing to bet that if he did want to, he could. i only would like to see him coaching the knicks, i have no idea what his personal agenda is actually like.


    If he attempted to choke any pro athlete they'd find him in the Hudson.


    thats the point, no athlete would dare to choke him the first place because they know how intense of a guy he is. he wouldnt choke an athlete for no reason at all. hes not a crazy maniac.


    Oh by the way I know that Knight coached IT. Again try to follow what I write if you need clarifican PM me. You know what they say about assuming right? Makes an ass out u & me. When I was taking about support of the gm & ownership I didn't mention anybody in particular. So please don't get it twisted.

    so then you agree that knight would have support from management and that would help him better control his players and get respect from them.

    I don't think that we need a sideshow on the sidelines either. Sometimes with lack of offense, we don't some idiot coach giving away points with technicals. Just a thought.

    hes not an idiot coach. he can intimidate referees and maybe even make them give us a call or two. hes entertaining. he would increase interest in the knicks for sure. he would proabbly improve ticket sales. it would be a good pr move. i dont think you can question that.

  12. #27
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    bobby knight has texas tech in the sweet 16. i saw dan patrick interview him, and he seems to be right in his prime, not past it. hes taken a team with not the most talent on the roster much further than anyone expected. hes consistently done that throughout his career - taken teams further than expected. hes a good coach. anybody who doesnt think so doesnt know basketball.

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    i dont think phil will take over unless we make some trades. brown mite come over and obviously hes a great coach. hed have to be disciplined to have an effect on this team. flip would prolly go to cleveland before ny.
    obviously herb isnt doing a terrible job (dont know how much is due to him but hes not screwing it up). i think if we make the playoffs hell stay but you never know with isiah.

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    Since a knicks fan personally wants to scrutinize every word that I say...de-construct this:

    1. The system Bobby Knight has is based on abuse and intimidation. These are NBA Men he'd be dealing with, not some starry eyed freshmen who'll be fighting for minutes. In the NBA, a guy like Knight who has a history of being abusive (Verbally & Physically) is not a guy I want around anyone.

    2. You point out Zach Randolph & Darius Miles right now have led the Trail Blazers to a glorious 1-10 since they along with John Nash deposed Mo Cheeks. As well, both players are leading from the bench. So that 130 million in salaries looks like it's definitely going to great lengths to benefits the Trail Blazers!

    3. You're quoting Tim Legler as a source? League wide this guy has aggravated everyone. Tim Legler went on a tirade on how the Bulls should dismantle the roster. They went 20-5 after that. Read the AD quote.

    Tim Legler wasn't much of a player, but I think even less of him as a broadcaster.” –- Antonio Davis


    4. Knight has definitely past his expiration date for the NBA. He would never, ever be able to step in a dressing room and try to tear a strip off any team now. The luster is off the rose wear this nut is concerned. The have been tons of winning coaches that have been quite contrary in the style they implement, and have still gotten respect and won. Phil Jackson, Pat Riley, John Wooden, Etc. that have treated their players like men and gotten intensity and won championships.

    5. Knight hasn't won in years, now he gonna potentially win on the grand scale with the Knicks? Whatever!!

    6. I think if Knight had something to offer the league it would have happened ages ago. If Knight didn't go to show, it's simply because no one would call his number. He made great money as a college coach, it's no secret NBA coaches make more.

    7. NO I DON'T THINK KNIGHT WOULD HAVE SUPPORT OR CONTROL!! Is that clear enough??? Brendan Suhr is an IT stooge and players don't like him cause they feel he's a rat for management. So how would Knight be viewed differently?

    8. I think anyone who's made a name for themselves by assaulting young men, is an idiot. I volunteered at a friends Basketball camp. Young kids need to have rules. Sure. If I was Bobby Knight I would berate a star player and make the weakest player my "Whipping Boy". I chose to treat every kid there special. I chose to devote a little bit of time to work on what the child lacked the most in their personal game. I still get cards from those children saying thanks. Do you think Bobby Knight gets cards from Neil Reed? What ref is going to be intimidated by Bobby Knight? Dick Bavetta? Jack Neece? Joey Crawford...If you think any NBA ref would fear Bobby, you're delusional. Oh by the way the Garden usually sells out with out Bobby Knight. I don't get how hiring Knight would be a good PR move? It's not like is "The Notebook" some heartwarming love story. It would look like IT making a lateral move or doing a "good turn" for his old coach.

    So in summary I hate Bobby Knight. I think anyone who's been allowed access to assault, intimidate, and mistreat other people's children should have been banned hen Indiana got rid of him. Last time I checked Phil and Larry had never assaulted anyone that played for them. I rather Have Ronald McDonald as coach before Bobby Knight! I have I have made myself clear, and this clears up any misconceptions.

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