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Thread: If no Playoffs..'Least we got Herb

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    Default If no Playoffs..'Least we got Herb

    The Knicks are playing great basketball. But the should have been like this since November. I know veryone is hoping for this year and so am I but even if we do not make it this year it will be because Herb Williams was not with us sooner. Thsi guy is a Pat Riley and Van Gundy disciple. He has got the team playing defense. Now over the summer. Phil, Larry, and Flip are talk of being the next coach. If all say no. Herb William aint bad at all. As a matter of fact I would want him here. For team severely flawed he has used them well as of late. Now I will not mention next year because it anit the time. But he we got something in Herb, right?

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    i think thats being a little optimistic on herb. im not so enamored with him. and i definetely dont credit this recent mini win streak to him. he has a long way to go if he wants to prove himself as a coach.

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    yes I understand that, I hope we all do. You cant automatically credit him for this...even though there has been a drastic change in Tims play, Crawfords new playing attitude (passfirst,wait for shot), hustle on D, marbury passing more, winning, maybe once Lenny left it just popped in their heads to do that stuff...its possible i guess....

    the thing i dont like though is he gets what less than half a season to prove himself? Then we evaluate Jackson, Brown, Saunders, McMillan? Now I know Herb is no Holzman BUT how will we know unless we give him a chance? a longer one. Im not saying commit to this guy extension wise for years though...

    I know Jackson will prolly be given loads of money to coach us. but is he as great as the fans/media/owners make his out to be? NO. 9 rings do look nice but an outdated offense and no superstar (shaq/kobe/jordan) in NY itll be quite hard...remember he doesnt do rebuilding teams...

    Brown. Good Coach? YES. But hes getting old, this is what second surgery in 2 years on his hip? not playing rookies or the young guys is also a big warning. lets rethink that...

    Saunders and McMillan...hmm lets start with McMillan, winning records? yes. Where have the Sonics gone though? I havent seen them in the Finals as of yet...maybe im tuned into the wrong channel though....Saunders if you cant make it past the first round with Kevin Garnett (for 9 years) somethings wrong there...

    i just think we should give Herb a chance...but in the real world, we wont...

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    i rate a coach by how well he does with what he has, not by how many games he wins. if a coach could take the charlotte bobcats to play .500 ball, and make the playoffs this year, he should be hands down the coach of the year.

    i think sometimes just a change in scenery (such as a coach being fired and a new one being put in) can help players a little bit. when byron scott was fired last year, the nets all of a sudden got better. was it because of lawrence frank? i think maybe a little, but mostly it was probably just that there was a change. kidd, jefferson and martin were playing just fine with byron scott the year before he got fired (they won the eastern conference), so what happened, did he all of a sudden become a bad coach or they all of a sudden stopped playing well with him as a coach? i dont think so. i think you just sometimes need change to remotivate yourself and maybe rejuvenate some energy. i really dont think that lawerence frank was necessarily a better coach than scott, even though it may seem that way. i wonder if frank had initially been the coach, and the netes started playing badly, and scott replaced him, maybe people would be saying that it was becase the players were responding to scott more, and that scott was the better coach.

    i have a strong hunch that herb williams, if given a contract extension, will not produce what new yorkers want him to. he'll just be another coach that got fired before his contract was up and change was necessary because he wasnt doing the job well.

    actually, in that sense, i think phil jackson is a very smart guy. he realizes that there's only so much a coach can do. he knows that if he commes to the knicks now, he wouldnt be able to help much, and its not him, even the greatest coach in the history of the nba wouldnt be able to save the knicks right now. phil knows that if the situation is bad, he wont get involved. look at what happened in new jersey, scott got a bad reputation, frank got a lot of credit. the reality: scott might even be the better coach. but, the situation and circumstances and the crazy media can twist things around and make somoene look great when they arent or make someone look bad when they're good. phil jackson never puts himself in bad situations where he can get the butt end of the media's thrashing.

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    and most fans are so naive and so gullible they will eat up anything the media throws at them. fans will rarely see the reality, only the perception created by the media. thats the only reason any fan can possibly think that herb williams is doing a good job as coach right now. fans will like you one week and think you are god one week if you 4 in a row, and call for your head and your firing the VERY next week if you lose 4 in a row. most fans are like little babies that cry one minute and then smile the next. i just think its too early to say what kind of coach herb is, and im not going to say that the players better play is because of him, because i really just dont think its true. tim thomas has shown flashes of brilliance before. whats going to happen when he reverts back to his old inconsistent ways? will that be herbs fault that he started playing badly again?

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    bad decision to use Byron Scott and Lawrence Frank as an example. For ONE Byron was given a great team, Martin, Jefferson, Kittles, Kidd how dont you expect someone to produce when having them? Then he gets replaced and they do better, maybe a coincidence....the reason its a bad example though is where is Byron Scott now?? Oh New Orleans how are they doing right now? Its not a matter of who you have (or nor should it be) it should be how good you coach what you have...and Byron didnt do that, or isnt doing it right now (or during the season when he did have Magloire, Davis, Brown, Wesley etc healthy)...

    Wasnt you that I got in discussions with where you disliked Jackson and didnt think he should be our coach? Because he gets an allstar team? Now your defending him because hes not going to accept the job, because our team isnt good enough? Maybe he does realize that, but its contradicting. Your mad he always gets an incredible team, and now that he wont take a less than incredible team you respect him? I dont know man...i dont respect him...i respect those 9 rings but not his "greatness"...

    I agree, I dont think he should get the 2 year extension but im just saying give him a chance. Im not saying i want him as our life time coach or even for 2 more seasons. Im just saying lets not jump to conclusions before this guy attempts to do what he thinks he can do. Players play for who they want, they get better at D, they take less shots, they hustle when they want. But in some ways its the coach who brings that out of them. Fact is, they are playing for him. Maybe its just Wilkens coaching was outdated and not as good as his record seemed...but also they werent playing for him, as much Crawford, Marbury kiss his ass he wasnt what they needed....not saying Herb is, but we wont know until we find out...

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    I think if Lenny had given Herb a bigger role in coaching, especially on defense, we would be at a much better place. Just think, if we put them both togethor, we get one very decent coach..

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    nyknicks15, im not defending jackson. im saying that there's not that much difference between a good coach and a bad coach, and that even the best coach cant do much with a bad team.

    the scott/frank example is to show that depending on the circumstances, a person can be shown to look like a franchise savior or a bad coach, even if hes not (either way). im not necessarily saying one coach is better than the other, im simply saying that depending on the situation, one person can be made out to look like a hero and another person a total dud. and im saying that phil jackson is smart enough that he only puts himself in situations where he can look good. he realizes which types of circumstances will make him look good. im not necessarily saying hes a good coach. YOU are the one that was saying he was a good coach before, NOT ME.

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