Bums In Bums Out: Who's Got to Go and How

He might be an All-Star or he might be a total bust we'll have to wait and see.

i understand wut u mean.....but saying someone isnt a sure player just because they were picked lower in teh draft is untrue......


that was the point i was making.......

No it's not untrue. He's not a sure thing and if you look statistically players drafted in the lottery are more likely to contribute. You have your Skitas in the lotto and your Wallaces go undrafted but those players are not the norm. Trading Sweets on the assumption that Lee can come in and contribute right out of college or the assumption that they're similar players (which other than height and positions they're not at all) would be a huge risk. The Spurs did not say o Tony Parker might be good we should just trade TD.

Lee isnt our only Pf.........its not like he will be starting......he could develop he may not.....


other then score down low or make freethrows thats all sweetney can do.....yea he is a pretty good offensive rebounder but he has alot of negatives 2

he is slow, he is not a great defender, he cant shoot faceing the basket, and is overweight and a lil undersized for a pf.....

i think hes listed 6'9 but they said hes like 6'7 6'6


david lee has amazing jumping ability for his height and color(lol) he is fast and great on the ball defender

im not trying to hype him up.....but he is a safe player to keep off the bench for a few years

I really liked the pick. You called me out when I said #30 picks are not sure things. That's all I said.

Sweets should be pretty good though. I'm not convinced he can start (maybe with 3 or even 4 better players around him) but you don't have to be KG to contribute.

I never "called you out" i was just making a point saying that 2nd round picks can be stars 2....


u were questioning his ability because he was piced so low and all i did was name a few stars who were 2nd rounders...i never called u out just made a point

No I never questioned his ability becasuse of where he was picked. I said he is not a a sure thing. Tony Parker was not a sure thing, Manu was not a sure thing, Josh Howard, Boozer, Channing Frye, Marvin Williams all not sure things.

Sorry that list is stupid what I'm saying is that only a few draft picks are ever sure things and they are named TD, LeBron, Hakeem (at the time Akeem), Ewing, etc.

Ted said:

Sorry that list is stupid what I'm saying is that only a few draft picks are ever sure things and they are named TD, LeBron, Hakeem (at the time Akeem), Ewing, etc.

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But statistically earlier draft picks have a better chance of being contributors.

I agree with that .....im just saying that 2nd round picks have a chance to contribute as well and some has provin to be stars.......


im not sayin Lee is a star im saying dont eliminate him just because he was a late draft selection


its common sense that players picked in teh top 5 will do good

I never eliminated anything based on his draft position. I was under the impression that you thought trading Sweetney would make no difference because Lee is the same player. I don't know if that's what you were saying. If it is 1. There games are different and 2. Sweetney has proven that he can at least contribute at this level.

Not always. There are more top 5 busts than there are second round stars. At least as many I dont have a list or anything.

what is the chance that Bobs, Ted and Knicksfan20 are the same person? Its constant back2back on one subject through posts and posts....

Anywayz, Sweets is trade bait, plain and simple. David's playing time in the season will in part depend on Timmy's fate, so he will be a non-factor for now and have sometime to grow into the rotation

Who would ya'll have for the MLE, Jerome James or Steven Hunter?

Am I alone on giving Laimbeer a chance as an assistant to Isiah or Aguirre instead of letting Herb die a slow Chaney-esque death?

furious lord said:

:afro: Here's my list of Knicks that I wanna see gone and why.

Penny Hardaway- he's done. Finished. Lil' Penny has seen the latest Sprite commercial and has put a gun to his head. I say let his contract run out and use the space, or package him as a throw- in for a trade for a young stud big.
Bruno Sundov- do i need to explain?
Allan Houston- As much as I liked him, I hope he retires, or if the PA does us justice, we can cut him, pay him, without it counting against the cap.
Jackie Butler-he's a scrub
JYD-love him, but we are rebuilding. By the time we're good, he'll be finished.
Malik Rose-see JYD. Maybe keep him around for a year, let him instill work ethic in the young guys, then let him walk as a throw in in a sign and trade.
Mike Sweetney?- If he don't drop 15 or 20 pounds, I'd consider trading him also. We plan on running alot, he's got some quickness, but he's no Stromile Swift. Plus he's slow on defensive rotation. I'd consider moving Frye to the 4 if we get a center.
Mo Taylor?- Like him also. But he might turn out to be trade bait during the season. He's gonna put up some good numbers if he comes off the bench for us, making him a valuable commodity b4 the dead line.
And last but not least, Tim Thomas- like his game, but he's too soft. Can score whenever he wants, but gets embarrassed by any good 3 man.
I predict he's gonna have a breakout season-he's gonna pull a Dampier-in the last year of his contract. Let him walk in 2006, or if any sucker GM like Babcock or Buss comes with the right deal, entertain the possibilities.


Peace

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Penny will be hard to move until the trade deadline.
Rose will not be going anywhere because no team in their right minds (except NY it looks like) will take his contracts.
Taylor could be thrown into a deal to match a salary. Again, not until the trade deadline.
Sweetney will be used in a sign and trade for a plyaer... Will it be Kwame, Swift or Walker... I guess we will see. My guess in Kwame because Washington seems to like sweetney. He's cheap and actually like to play and hustle.
TT- Boston has openly said that they will entertain a sign and trade for Walker if it will help them in cap relief. I can see TT being used for this. I originally thought they mught use Marbury to get him but I wouldn't be surprised if Walker came to the Knicks and TT contract brought him here along with a bad Contract like Blounts or even Raefs (if Boston is looking to trade Raef).
Bruno & Butler are so unimportanst becasue they make NBA minimal.
Houston contact will be bought out under the new CBA so he will be gone.

With Bobs we were both a little viscious. But to me the point of this is to see what other people think and why and then tell them what yo uthink. Not to all agree that we should trade everyone and get KG and Kobe.

MLE I would take Hunter over James in a second. James is fat and lazy, Hunter is athletic and had a solid playoff run (doesn;t mean he'll do it consistantly.) Not that I know you can get Hunter or you pay James that much or Isiah wants either.

Sweets is trade bait but if you can't get anything good you don't have to trade him.

Lee's playing time will depend on how good he plays and how hard he works as will everyone elses. We don't have an all-star 4 as far as I know.

hometheaterguy said:

furious lord said:

:afro: Here's my list of Knicks that I wanna see gone and why.

Penny Hardaway- he's done. Finished. Lil' Penny has seen the latest Sprite commercial and has put a gun to his head. I say let his contract run out and use the space, or package him as a throw- in for a trade for a young stud big.
Bruno Sundov- do i need to explain?
Allan Houston- As much as I liked him, I hope he retires, or if the PA does us justice, we can cut him, pay him, without it counting against the cap.
Jackie Butler-he's a scrub
JYD-love him, but we are rebuilding. By the time we're good, he'll be finished.
Malik Rose-see JYD. Maybe keep him around for a year, let him instill work ethic in the young guys, then let him walk as a throw in in a sign and trade.
Mike Sweetney?- If he don't drop 15 or 20 pounds, I'd consider trading him also. We plan on running alot, he's got some quickness, but he's no Stromile Swift. Plus he's slow on defensive rotation. I'd consider moving Frye to the 4 if we get a center.
Mo Taylor?- Like him also. But he might turn out to be trade bait during the season. He's gonna put up some good numbers if he comes off the bench for us, making him a valuable commodity b4 the dead line.
And last but not least, Tim Thomas- like his game, but he's too soft. Can score whenever he wants, but gets embarrassed by any good 3 man.
I predict he's gonna have a breakout season-he's gonna pull a Dampier-in the last year of his contract. Let him walk in 2006, or if any sucker GM like Babcock or Buss comes with the right deal, entertain the possibilities.


Peace

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Penny will be hard to move until the trade deadline.
Rose will not be going anywhere because no team in their right minds (except NY it looks like) will take his contracts.
Taylor could be thrown into a deal to match a salary. Again, not until the trade deadline.
Sweetney will be used in a sign and trade for a plyaer... Will it be Kwame, Swift or Walker... I guess we will see. My guess in Kwame because Washington seems to like sweetney. He's cheap and actually like to play and hustle.
TT- Boston has openly said that they will entertain a sign and trade for Walker if it will help them in cap relief. I can see TT being used for this. I originally thought they mught use Marbury to get him but I wouldn't be surprised if Walker came to the Knicks and TT contract brought him here along with a bad Contract like Blounts or even Raefs (if Boston is looking to trade Raef).
Bruno & Butler are so unimportanst becasue they make NBA minimal.
Houston contact will be bought out under the new CBA so he will be gone.

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You want Raef's contract or his game just to get Toine? I would be very hesitent.
Sweetney MAY be used for a bigman if we can get one. We could also maybe use Lee depending on what team we're talking to. To sign and trade for someone we have to convince them to come here instead of anywhere else and match the salary we give them within 25% in the trade and present a package that the team likes better than keeping their guy or just letting him walk.
No one wants Taylor's contract. We would have to be making someteam a lot better to use it in a trade.
Penny's not all that hard to move to a team that's looking to lose salary and rebuild if you take on a bad contract and give a young guy (maybe for Magloire or PJ Brown if the Hornets want to dump them, they both only have two years left on their deals maybe we'd have to take George Lynch's last year as well.)

I don't want either Blounts or LaFrenzs contract(s). I was just stating that in order to get Walker in a sign and trade, Boston will force us to take a contract. I guess the question reall is; is walker worth it to take on such bad contracts? If you are NY, money isn't an issue. We see it with all our pro teams. We can afford to pay the salary taxes to get a player we want. The Knicks are is a bad position. They can't sign players out right. The only thing they can do to get a quality player is to do a sign and trade with a team and that usually means taking back bad contracts. If we were to talk Memphis into a deal with Swift, it would be the same story with them. What you try (or hope) to do is get a bad contract of a player that can actually contribute at some level.

Oh definitely on taking on a contract in a sign and trade. I would be much happier if we got Toine with the MLE or at least got one of Boston's young guys in the swap. I know that we have never shied away from bad contracts, but I think we are in a position, with some exciting young players and a few veterans, where taking on more bad contracts that don't at least help us out is stupid. One big question is whether anyone is offering Toine more than the MLE and if he's looking at a bunch of MLEs if he would choose ours. I'm not sure anyone else was crazy about Crawford at more than the MLE and no one was offering Houston more than like 12 mill per when he was a FA and we still paid them. Plus, Isiah was a players coach and he's a players exec so maybe he takes on a contract just to give Toine the money he feels he deserves. I have very little problem with either Blounts contract or his game. He's 7 feet and can block shots and rebound. I wouldn't be particularly upset about him as a backup center at about 7 mill per.

Also a little crazy talk for you: The Paul Pierce rumors have been circulating in the media forever. I don't know why the Celts more him they have some good youmg supporting players but Al Jefferson is the only one with any real star potential. Anyway there is a small (probably very small) chance that if Marbury is in fact moved maybe you could get Pierce and something else in a threeway deal for Marbury and something else. LaFentz's contract is pretty damn bad so maybe if
1. THey actually want to move Pierce
2. We eat LaFrentz's contract
3. Someone wants Marbury
4. We get something they like with Marbury
Then maybe in a perfect world we could get Pierce. Very, very unlikely but who knows. Then we have a glut of wings and have to make another move, include Q or JC in the deal somehow, or use JC at the point.

Tim Thomas "soft"?

:afro:
Peace, I'm new to this, so bear with me. Just wanted to explain what I meant by Tim Thomas being "soft". Somebody on the message board disagreed with my assessment of his game. I actually like TT, but I think he is soft because 1. He plays no defense 2. At 6' 10 he only averages 5 rebounds a game. Now I know he hits the three ball, and posts up and dunks on smaller defenders, and I love that. But whn it comes to the boards, in the games that I WATCHED, he gets knocked around. And decent small forwards abuse Tim. Plus he is very fragile, always hurt for a guy his size. I think Tim is more "mentally" soft, in that he'll have a monster first half, then things will get tough, and he'll get lost in the flow of th game. He disappears for stretches not only in games but also throughout the season. The reason I would not mind seeing Tim shipped out because we got too many defensive liabilities at the wing positions, and we are in the same division as the Nets, who have JR and VC.
Peace

Re: Tim Thomas "soft"?

furious lord said:

:afro:
Peace, I'm new to this, so bear with me. Just wanted to explain what I meant by Tim Thomas being "soft". Somebody on the message board disagreed with my assessment of his game. I actually like TT, but I think he is soft because 1. He plays no defense 2. At 6' 10 he only averages 5 rebounds a game. Now I know he hits the three ball, and posts up and dunks on smaller defenders, and I love that. But whn it comes to the boards, in the games that I WATCHED, he gets knocked around. And decent small forwards abuse Tim. Plus he is very fragile, always hurt for a guy his size. I think Tim is more "mentally" soft, in that he'll have a monster first half, then things will get tough, and he'll get lost in the flow of th game. He disappears for stretches not only in games but also throughout the season. The reason I would not mind seeing Tim shipped out because we got too many defensive liabilities at the wing positions, and we are in the same division as the Nets, who have JR and VC.
Peace

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I agree 100% with your assesment of TT. He is big phiscally but mentally he is soft. Plus, the Knicks don't need a 6'10' guy jacking 3s! It is a waste of his size and his position.