Shawn Marion, a Knick by February?

portega1968

El Cacique
Thank you hometheaterguy, took the words out of my mouth. Seems some people enter the forum and don't read the entire thread, and end up repeating the same stuff and asking questions that have been already answered.

Why would we want to go under the cap? To get guys like Marion. Isiah would be dumb not to grab him for TT if he has the chance. I'd rather have Marion and try to get rid of anyone else on our team that not take him for fear of being capped. The guy is KG with 5 less inches: he scores efficiently, rebounds, steals, blocks,has crazy hops, runs the floor, pops the 3 and is only 27. The only reason Phoenix has 2 let him go is to retain Amare and we are not going to take advantage of that?

Trevor is a knick for the next 20 years because of the Gilbert Arenas clause in the new CBA (his contract won't ever pay luxury tax). Nate, Lee and Frye have 4 year deals (by then we see who's worth keeping and manuever to resign).

New York is a city of high expectations. It would be nice to do the right thing and try to get under the cap, but that means not competing for a couple of years and that just isn't happening in New York. Too much pressure from sponsors and the media. If given the chance of taking Marion in Feb to make a playoff push this year versus not doing it to have cap space down the road, this team will always take this year. You're daydreaming if you think we'll ever be under the cap in this city.
 

ny3nyk

Rotation player
im just afraid of losing nate lee and frye but i see the your point of the 2 year deals. with marion, i think we will be at least the top 5 in rebounding, the guy avged 11. if we get marion, i say getting rid of mo taylor and or jyd is a main priority
 

dasilva1079

Benchwarmer
Alot of people hate on MO Taylor, other than his contract situation I think he is a pretty good player. I could care less if he didn't play so well for Houston, but every game that I saw him play for the Knicks, he showed up and did his thing. Dude is a scoring machine and could get to the line by being aggresive around the basket just like Sweetney, which is something that Kurt was missing
 
Is Isiah trying to turn the Knicks into the Suns?

In the past month he's:

1. traded for Q
2. drafted an uptempo point guard (Nate)
3. gone after Stephen Hunter

He keeps saying he wants a young, athletic team that can run the break. Getting Marion would make this the "Suns East".
 

hometheaterguy

Knicks Guru
dasilva1079 said:
Alot of people hate on MO Taylor, other than his contract situation I think he is a pretty good player. I could care less if he didn't play so well for Houston, but every game that I saw him play for the Knicks, he showed up and did his thing. Dude is a scoring machine and could get to the line by being aggresive around the basket just like Sweetney, which is something that Kurt was missing

I like Mo Taylor but not at the money we are paying for him and MR is even worse!! Yes, MT can score but he doesn't play D that well and the Knicks have scorers, that isn't the problem with this team, it's D. Marion would be the first right move this team has made in a long time. Yes he has a big contract but he is a big time player. You know, I would take KG and is Huge contract if the Wolves wanted to move him... Wouldn't you?? Size of contracts aren't a problem if you have:
1) the money to support the contracts
2) the player is a big time, proven star in the NBA
The Knicks M.O. has always been taking big contracts of mediocre players to just outright bad players. Everyone is patting Isiah on the back for his draft picks, but it was Taylors contract that got us Lee and the KT trade that got us Nate. Next year he has multiple #1 picks as well, thanks to taking on MR's contract. Now, these picks may or maynot become NBA caliber players, never mind a future superstar. So, my point being, Marion is Young, a star and has proven his talent year in and year out. We would finally be getting our moneys worth with him. We could still let contracts run out in the process but getting him for TT is no different if we signed Marion outright. Don't you think Isiah would give him the very same contract (money wise) that he would get if he does trade TT for him? I say, if we could get Marion for TT, do it and still try to either, dump or let wait out some of the bad contracts.
 

KnicksFan20

Rotation player
and timmy is making about the same as marion so it wont be that bad for this year.......but he has a long deal.......



if the knicks get him.......the knicks will be a strong P/off team


then we cut or trade penny and keep houston or if we can trade penny cut houston.


then trade marburys huge contract 2 a team over the cap or not far under and try to get a good Pf



if we can do that we can be under the cap......

its sounds easy but it wont be easy for a team to take there contracts


then right there thats over 40 mil in contract there


marbruy-around 19 mil
houston-around 19 mil
hardaway- around 12-15 mil
 

ny3nyk

Rotation player
i say use hardaway as trade bait to memphis where he longed to play. there were rumors i think a while back that the knicks were trying to buy him out so he can sign with the magic again
 

a knick fan

Benchwarmer
hey i never said dont get marion. hes an excellent player. he plays D, rebounds, does everything. i just said that i think it will be very, very hard to get him without giving up something like almost all the young prospects on our team.

marion is a top 10 player in the nba, and he is worth a maximum contract. i would not mind his contract one bit.

the big thing is, i just dont think there is even the slightest hope that he will be comming to ny any time soon, it just doesnt seem like a realistic possibility to me, despite any "rumors" or credible sources that say so. lots of these credible sources say that something is a possibilty, and 90% of the time, nothing happens.

phoenix will simply want too much in return for him.
 

portega1968

El Cacique
A Knick Fan, have you read the thread where the possibility of getting Marion is explained?

The assumption is that Phoenix is basically forced to clear his contract if they have any hopes of keeping Amare and Joe Johnson and staying around the cap. Just happens that the best way to that is a trade before the feb deadline for a contract that expires at season end and is within 25 percent of Marion's. Preferably, a player in the same position to plug the hole till seasons end. Who happens to fit that definition? Tim Thomas' $14mil. Not Penny, much less Allan, Rose or Taylor.

So this is plainly a realistic possibility unless some other team throws in picks or rookies to sweeten the deal. I would gladly throw in Frye if needed.
 

hometheaterguy

Knicks Guru
a knick fan said:
hey i never said dont get marion. hes an excellent player. he plays D, rebounds, does everything. i just said that i think it will be very, very hard to get him without giving up something like almost all the young prospects on our team.

marion is a top 10 player in the nba, and he is worth a maximum contract. i would not mind his contract one bit.

the big thing is, i just dont think there is even the slightest hope that he will be comming to ny any time soon, it just doesnt seem like a realistic possibility to me, despite any "rumors" or credible sources that say so. lots of these credible sources say that something is a possibilty, and 90% of the time, nothing happens.

phoenix will simply want too much in return for him.

You might be right about the Marion to NY for TT. You are right about trade rumours and the percentage of them that come true. But, there is money issues with alot of teams and Pheonix is one of them. It so happens that they have young talent that are top players in the NBA and their rookie salaries are finished. They could keep Marion, sign Joe J at 70m for 5 years and then give AS the max contract.... I don't think they would have the funds to do that. I think it is in their best interest to move him, if they want to retain AS. I would give them TT (for the money match) and say a #1 and even Ariza if they wanted a postion replacement. If they don't resign JJ, then Marion isn't even a disscusion.
 

thwax

Benchwarmer
i'm not sure way we would give away a #1 pick and Ariza for Marion with $63 million... sure he is a good player... but he is not KG, Shaq, Kobe, Amare, D-Wade, etc... Cap space does become an issue with Marion... with the others probably not! Marion just isn't an A+ top tier player... he's 6'7 would play SF, put Ariza and Lee back and we'd still have a big hole at PF even though we have so many of them
 

pyotrveliky

Rotation player
in the east he could probably play PF. he did it in the west...true it was with a run and gun team but hes athletic and quick enough to guard big guys i think.
 

thwax

Benchwarmer
Look at three free agents signed with the MLE this summer... Abdur-Rahim with the Nets, Stromile Swift with the Rockets, Jerome James with the Knicks... all signed 5 year deals for 29 million.

This is a tricky one as we need a center more than a PF... but on a pure talent, upside and effectiveness basis, I think we got the 3rd option... in my opinion... in order of talent: swift (he's also young), 2nd is abdur-rahim (proven, sometimes soft), 3rd is James (hasn't ever played high minutes)

A tricky one as GM, Fyre is not ready... also Swift prefered Rockets to the Knicks, preferred the opportunity to play with T-Mac and Yao versus Marbury and... well we don't have a second All-Star (unfortunately we don't have one at all... not yet :))

Just some thoughts people, don't hate on me for for the food for thought :)
 

a knick fan

Benchwarmer
i know that phoenix might want to move him...but that doesnt mean that the KNICKS will get him...there will be LOTS of teams interested in getting marion, and probably the team thats willing to give up the most will get him. i dont think isiah will want to part with his young prospects, even though i probably would.

look...swift was available...and he signed for just the MLE...but NOT with the knicks...

my intuition tells me that we are not front runners for marion...at all...

but anyway...

marion is a better player than ariza...much better. if ariza fulfills all his potential, maybe he will be 90% the player marion is. lee is just a hustle guy, a good role player off the bench...but not some great all star in the making.

so,

i would easily do:

marion for ariza, lee, hardaway

but i just dont think that will be enough...

there's not really much else on our roster that phoenix would want - i doubt marbury will be traded (or nate), they already have amare so they dont need sweetney, the only other guy i can think of is crawford, but they need money to sign amare, so i dunno if they want another contract...

but lemme say this:

if phoenix trades marion, they will become a MUCH worse team.

marion is so underrated, so undervalued, that he is the 2nd best player on the suns, and actually i might even go out on a limb and make a case that he is even better than amare, but i wont go that far. he is easily a top 10 plaer in the league. any smart gm would give him the max contract in 2 seconds or take his contract if they could.

the suns will miss him dearly if they trade him.
 

Trin_Starr

Starter
a knick fan said:
i know that phoenix might want to move him...but that doesnt mean that the KNICKS will get him.

The only reason why Phx needs to move Marion is because of his contract. Next season, they need to resign Amare to a MAX contract and having Nash onboard making $10+ mil, joe johnson making $12+mil, they need to clear up some cap space to allow this to happen.
The reason why the knicks is so attractive is that they have a big money expiring contract in TT or Penny that ends after the 05/06 season. This means that if Marion was traded for TT, then at the end of the year, Phx would get TT's 15mil off the books and would have the money to sign Amare right after the season ended. It's the same process they did with McDyess' contract in the trade for Marbury and Penny so that they could sign Nash to a big contract.

Marion's contract might be big - but he plays like he's worth it - the man is still young, and averages 20pts, 12rebs, 2asts, 2stls and 1.5 blks a night

As Isiah recently said - being under the cap doesn't really give u any edge, because big time FA's 99% of the time resign with their original teams because they are able to get much more money aka Kobe, Ray Allen, Redd.
They only way to get great players is in trades aka Shaq, Mcgrady, Vince.
so being under the cap does nothing for the knicks and once Dolan has no problem paying the luxury tax, then we should go for a trade that would bring Marion here....
 

portega1968

El Cacique
Besides KG, Marion is the only other player in the top 40 in seven statistical categories....points, FG%, FT%, rebounds, blocks, assists and steals...and someone's saying he isn't a top tier player?

I don't think we will have to give up Ariza or any of the prospects on our rosters...TT's expiring deal and maybe a pick, that's all it takes.

Ariza is like Scottie Pippen, does everything on the court but does nothing spectacular (besides dunking). All he needs is a Jordan to really make him fulfill his potential. Nate isn't Jordan, but I suspect Nate and Ariza will become a formidable fastbreak duo in this league.

Anything could happen before Feb...Amare or Marion could be injured for example, and something like that could sink this scenario of us vying for Marion. Bottom line is, cap fears shouldn't stop us from getting a player who automatically makes us a contender. The reason for getting under the cap is to get players like Marion.
 

thwax

Benchwarmer
portega1968 said:
Besides KG, Marion is the only other player in the top 40 in seven statistical categories....points, FG%, FT%, rebounds, blocks, assists and steals...and someone's saying he isn't a top tier player?

What I said was "sure he is a good player... but he is not KG, Shaq, Kobe, Amare, D-Wade, etc... Cap space does become an issue with Marion... with the others probably not! Marion just isn't an A+ top tier player..."

I don't believe Marion is on par with these A+ players... the best of the best in the league... he is not a KG, or a Kobe or a Shaq... if he was the Suns would be CRAZY letting their franchise player go for TT's ailing contract... of course Marion is good... better than good... but do we want him with four years and 63 million playing his natural position at SF having Ariza and Lee sharing a few minutes behind him for 4 years... now i think that we'll probably trade a few of our up and coming prospects for a good deal like the Heat did for Shaq sometime soon... who know then it could work out... i'm just not sure if we all want to be capped out until the 2009/2010 seasaon... that's 4-5 years away... for some guys that's a career
 

hoop115

Benchwarmer
What people don't realize is that Marion, like AK47 (Andre Kirilenko) is a top player. They both contribute in every offensive and defensive category there is. If you play Fantasy BBall, Marion is always one of the Top FIVE players.

You might say that this isn't fantasy bball we're talking about and that Marion can not take over games like all the other players mentioned before, but Marion just like players AK47 and Big Ben, are important just the same b/c all the factors that they contribute to are considered as "intangible qualities". These "intangible qualities" in special players add a vital component to the overall team makeup.
 

hometheaterguy

Knicks Guru
Right, Marion isn't KG, Tim D, Shaq, Kobe, Tracy M, and you can't put Dwane Wade there yet... Let's see the guy do it for another year or 2 before we throw him in with the dominate players in the NBA, but no he's not him either... He's Shawn Marion, a 6' 7" player who can dominate at his natural position, the 3 and carry a team for periods of a game. He isn't an A+ player, but he is an A player and he brings his A game everynight. Will the Knikcs win a championship if we did get him in Feb? No, we wouldn't but we would be that much closer to being a top team in the NBA again. If Frye can develope at the 4, like experts think he can, than I say Next season, when Brown coaches the Knicks, we will be a force to reckon with. We still need another low post force to help dominate down there, and I believe we will get 1 either this or next season. Getting Marion would bring us sooo close!
 

NYKnicks15

Starter
if this rumor is true then why not do it. as good as getting under the cap sounds it wont happen for years. id take marion in a heart beat. and if we can get him for as low as TIM THOMAS!?! then what the hell. you have him start the SF. i dont understand why the Suns would give away 2 of their starters from last year though. it makes no sense. to sign back Amare? im pretty sure if you stay with your original team you can get signed back for the max..listen if we can do it. DO IT!!! SF for SF. C+ player for a A player...

and the rookie contracts that they all signed say 2 years then 2 team options...so well lose them only if we want to lose them.

C Jerome James
F Mike Sweetney
F Shawn Marion
G Jamal Crawford
G Stephon Marbury

doesnt look too bad to me...but i have a feeling Antoine Walker will be our starting PF. Allan Houston will be waived. and either Penny or Mo Taylor (with Rose or Williams) for our new starting PF.

so with a good 5 line up and a bench of Frye, Butler, a PF, Ariza, Lee, Richardson, Robinson looks like a good mix of cast to me
 
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