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Thread: We Need to Go Young

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    Default We Need to Go Young

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    "NEW YORK, November 4, 2005 -- How much are these Knicks “a work in progress”? Before the season’s second game -- the much-awaited home opener against the Washington Wizards -- Coach Larry Brown confessed “I have no clue about who to play. My heart does, but I don’t.”

    The roster’s youth, both age and time-spent-playing-together-wise, was eminently evident during the first quarter of the Knicks 86-75 loss. The starting five of Matt Barnes, Antonio Davis, Eddy Curry, Stephon Marbury, and Quentin Richardson spent a sum total ZERO minutes playing as a unit in the preseason due to “Q”-s lingering injury and Davis’ late arrival. Richardson seemed still rusty -- and the tough-posting Curry was not used in the post once -- thus the five had a difficult time developing chemistry on either end during an awful first quarter that saw the Wizards go up by 19 points (32-13) and ended with the Knicks trailing 32-16.[i]

    Game over? Far from it. A youthful Knicks unit of Trevor Ariza, Nate Robinson, Jamal Crawford, Maurice Taylor, and Channing Frye brought a striking energy and sudden speed into the Knicks equation, forcing five turnovers in succession early in the second quarter. A 6-0 run on a Frye 20-footer, a Robby lay up, and an Ariza dunk off of a sweet Crawford dish brought New York within 33-22.

    My question to yall, if what does that mean? Does it mean in LB's heart, he knows that he should playing the rooks/JC/Ariza? I was there and let me tell u, that was the ONLY time the Garden erupted. The fans want to see youth. No offense to the Marbury fans, in 2 games, his "stats" did not help us. Q was a chucker (if that was JC last night, you would be on him like flies on honey).

    It is unacceptable to have JC only take 5 shots and not even get a chance to play w/Eddy and have his starting spot taken by Q or for LB to allow him to run the offense in the pre-season and take it away from him.

    It is unacceptable to not play Frye in extended strateches.

    It is unacceptable to not have Trevor start over Barnes b/c he is 20 years old.

    It is unacceptable to let D.Lee and Butler rot on the IR when good things happened in the pre-season when they were on the court.

    It is unacceptable for Marbs to be playing PG and only have 3 assists, none thelesss, not get the ball to our OPTION #1 in the low post names Curry (see article above). The BALL never left his hands...like I said, I was there and close behind the bench, and LB screamed to Marbs on almost every possession to pass the ball...he splits double teams and is not involving anyone else.

    It is unacceptable that LB does not let our roster run (bench em if someone doesnt get back on D). The team is not being used correctly.

    Our pre-season games gave me more hope using the line-up that beat 3 teams...hell, they won the game versus SA's bench of Fin, Van Exel, Horry along with Parker and Manu. JC and Nate won the game versus Philly for us. And the game vs NJ (the 1st win not on TV), Marbury DID NOT EVEN PLAY and RJ and VC, Kidd did.

    Marbs needs to be at the 2, he cannot initiate the offense. Let JC play PG, put Q as the 6th man or SF. let Frye be the next man off the bench or the 6th man. Give the young guys some burn.

    Next ?, if that second unit of JC, Trev, Frye, Mo and Nate get us back in to games, force TO's and hold a team to only 11 pts in the 2nd Q, WHY THE HELL WOULD LB NOT PUT THEM BACK IN THE GAME DURING THE SECOND HALF???? Playing time should be determined by what u do on the court- I dont care if someone has 19 pts...if we lose, we lose doing it with youth for learning purposes. Things gotta change around here, FAST!

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    Jamal Crawford is not good and he does not make good things happen

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    first of all good job on a in depth post...now secondly most of it is BS.

    if thats whats in his heart..why isnt it in his head? u wanna know why? because u have robinson who turnsover the ball 3 times in 5 minutes. thats why. you have ariza who knows not much more than a dunk and steal. thats why. you have crawford whos never won more than 30 games a year in his career. thats why.

    Malik & Taylor are on the 12 man roster because they are veterans and isiah is trying to showcase them so he can ship them out. and the only reason crawford ran the offense in the preseason? because larry wanted to know what he had. he was evaluating him before he took everyone elses, yes EVERYONE elses opinion and tried shipping him out for whatever he could get...if you notice the preseason was dominated by Crawford, Hardaway, Robinson, Lee, Frye, Butler, Barnes, Taylor, Ariza...WHY? because he was putting all the people in who he wasnt sure what he had when coming to this team...he knew what marbury has in him, same with Malik and Davis....why did craw start in preseason aswell? Marbury was injured and so was Q...oh what u forgot to mention was when Craw didnt start against the NBA CHAMPION SPURS..we WON!..i see you a JC lover which is okay, but you also have to face facts and say Hardaway started the SF all preseason and his spot was taken away from him..are u complaining about that? no ur complaining cause u love JC

    i mite give u the Ariza thing cause id like him to start aswell but frye getting extended stretches? he does need more time develop but 2 turnovers in the extended stretches he did get (1 in crunch time), shooting 3-8. and two PF's? baby steps, in no way he is ready to start, but believe me he should by the end of the season. the D-Lee/Butler situation i already addressed, there tryin to showcase so they can ship...and remember what u said "PRESEASON" preseason means nothing. any legit analyst will tell u the same.

    whats unacceptable is calling maurice taylor youthful.
    whats unacceptable is judging JC or anyone else because of preseason play. unacceptable also is not noticing if u put Q at the 3 we will NOT have a backup SG. whats unacceptable is EDDY CURRY only lasting 16 minutes in the game cause he racks up for Personal fouls and 5 turnovers in that time, how would marbury pass to him more? feed him the ball to the bench? and any time Curry says feed me the ball im sure the bastards actually talking about eating it cause hes STILL not in shape. Whats unacceptable is not realizing robinson can not run a team yet either, see 3 turnovers in 5 minutes as an example. whats unacceptable is not realizing even when starting at PG Crawford has never assisted more than 5.1 a game...marbury? 8.1.

    our starting line up should switch SF's right now and thats all. Put Ariza in and go from there. you cant judge a team on TWO GAMES! lets wait and see what happens before we crap ourselves and make irrational decisions. and did you ever think the second unit that came on to court did so good so quick BECAUSE THEY COME OFF THE BENCH. if frye, taylor started the games togehter u think itd be the same? especially every night?

    right now larry is going with what he should, veteranship. once he sees the right combo that works im sure hell go with it. how many rings do u have? hes a successful coach for a reason and hell be successful here if you give him MORE THAN TWO GAMES! notice the preseason he messed with different combos and if u read the article above that u posted hes NOT decided indefinetely yet. hes still searching. so relax. and w/o putting trades that could happen into this statement...the starting lineup after deadline time will be Curry, Frye, Ariza, Q and Marbury. because thats what will work...but until then u cant trust the game in the hands of robinson, crawford, frye, lee, butler until they prove something. why do u think Marbury, Curry, Davis and Q are locks at the moment? they all have experience and they all have the chiseled talent to start...what does chiseled mean? it means theyve earned the right over the years..establishing their positives and limiting their negatives..

    so chill out man, and just wait. brown knows what hes doing and you nor myself have any right to tell him to do so otherwise..

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    how about Jamal Crawford vs Golden State...whooo what a game he had. so good he was limited to 9 minutes of play...1-5 shooting, 1 rebound, 3 assists and 3 turnovers...thats who you want handling the starting PG spot? unacceptable..

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    Default Everyone Needs to Relax

    I know we are 0-3 and it sucks, but however this team was never expected to compete for a title this year, and so far the Knicks are showing more promise towards the future than they have in YEARS!

    Look at all the positives compared to the negatives, the positives are all things that will help our franchise, and the negatives are just small and easily fixable things especially with a coach as good as LB.

    All of the young Players have played extremely well. Nobody could have expected Frye (12/5, 7/9) and Lee (8/10) to play as well right away. Nate is showing a lot of promise ( i love how he is so frustrated with losing already that he is showing so much feistiness and trying to fight JJ), and Trevor Ariza looks like he is one of the best players on the team. Eddy Curry is getting in foul trouble but he is scoring when he is in, and getting some boards. You gotta remember though he has taken so much time off we all knew it was going to take time for him to adjust.

    The Knicks will improve the FT's under Brown and once they get a solid rotation down (which i hope includes a lot of Frye, ariza, lee, Q, curry, Steph, Nate and occasionally AD and Barnes and much less of JJ, Craw, MO and Rose) we could develop chemistry and start winning games.

    This is just the struggles of a young team that currently lacks leadership, and is developing chemistry. It Takes time and with a great coach like Brown sucess will come, so everyone just relax.

    Now if we continue to lose and go 0-25 then i'll stop my positive outlook

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    I don't know why so many critics are 2nd guessing LB's tactics.

    Listen, Larry knew that if he continued to play the rookies, he would have won the game - but then what...
    This is Larry's plan. He's a cerebral assassin....Larry knows he needs the vets to play hard for him so that we have a chance as a team to reach deep in the playoffs.

    How else to get the vets to play hard by having them get embarrassed in public because the rookies were able to get the job done and not them.
    Yeah he knew he would lose one game, but the repercussions would be felt for the rest of the season.

    Trust me, the vets feel like **** right now. Imagine yourself sitting on the bench watching rookies outplay u, then come crunch time, the coach puts in his tried and true veterans who do not continue playing hard but end up squandering a lead built up by ur rookies.....hell yeah they got to feel like garbage that some kids are playing better ball than them.

    In order for the knicks to be successful, the vets need to play and then when 2nd units come in, our rookies will blow the other team out....
    But larry knows that having the rookies play hard alone is not going to cut it. We might win some extra games now but what happens when february rolls around and ur vets become divisive??!!

    I understand what larry is trying to do...Remember there are 82 games in a season.
    The bulls started out 0-9 but finished with 45 wins last season.
    0-3 is nothing compared to that!

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    why is matt barnes starting at the 3, it should be lee or ariza

    curry should be starting at the 4, he would be an obvious upgrade over davis, taylor or rose

    frye should be starting at the 5, even as a rookie he is better than jerome james

    if qrich is not healthy, then craw should be starting at the 2 (or 1, and make marbury a 2).

    curry is a beast. the knicks should play a very simple inside out game. look to post curry up EVERY time or virtually every time u have the ball.

    frye and ariza/lee might be able to get some offensive rebounds if he misses (especially lee). the 1 and 2 will get more open shots.

    the future of this season resides on eddy curry's shoulders. if he can turn into a 20 and 8 guy, which everyone knows hes got the potential to be, we can be a pretty decent team. just keep feeding him the ball. i saw isiah on "quite frankly" and he said "just keep giving shaq the ball"....well i think its the same thing with curry. he will make good things happen. give him the ball.

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    I kno this is probably a bogus comment right, but i play nba 2k6, and i start frye and move curry to the 4, q rich at 3, crawford at 2 and starbury an point, the team plays like all stars now, ariza is usually 6th man, bcuz of frye's stamina i put james in for him, this taem is a shot blocking, defensive and offensive team.....juss sayin, LB needs to buy an xbox

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    yes everyone says that line up but that leaves us without a backup Shooting Guard. Frye shouldnt be allowed to play the 5 anyhow i think he should play the 4 for good. the reason curry doesnt start PF over Davis is because he doesnt rebound well and thatd be the downfall (even tho im for it) of starting Curry at C and Frye at PF they both lack good rebounding skills...or lack of wanting to, not wanting Craw to play PG...dont trust him. the potential lineup is Curry, Frye, Ariza, Q, Marbury..in my eyes i guess..

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    Next season, keep waiting donchris's Avatar
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    I'm not convinced that Lee or Fry should start. We are judging there play in one season game as qualifying them to start? I don't think that Knicks fans want to see youth as much as they want to see good game play and wins. The whole team is still developing. We've yet to see the best this season from Curry, Richardson, or Marbury. The best is yet to come.

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    Default how bout curry and frye

    how bout curry as centre and grye as pf,the back court of last year of marbury and crawford with q at the sf

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    no1 brings any defense in that lineup....and weve seen we cant always rely on our offense to win.

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    i know a curry/frye frontcourt wouldnt rebound well..but thats why we should have ariza or lee starting at the 3. they both seem to have rebounding skills similar to shawn marion, who is also just 6'7 and rebounds like a 4 or 5 (and sometimes even plays the 4). i could easily see lee or ariza getting 8 rebounds a game if given enough minutes to compensate for curry and frye.

    the thing is, that frontcourt would probably be much better for us offensively speaking. matt barnes and antonio davis DO NOT belong in the starting lineup...period. plus i think lee and ariza are both a step above barnes in terms of defense, and its not like barnes is a spectacular offensive player by any means.

    a lineup with frye curry and ariza/lee at the 5 4 and 3 is the way to go. hopefully larry realizes this sooner than later.

    and, id actually personally like to see lee at the 3. he wont do much offensively, but he will make so many hustle plays and create extra possessions and stuff like that, it wont matter. ben wallace is a superstar in my mind, and hes horrible offensively. if david lee can get 8-9 rebounnds, play excellent defense, and dive for loose balls and do all the "jyd" stuff, ill be very happy with him. he will drive opponents crazy by outhustling them for rebounds and it will be fun to watch.

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    its worth a shot, i imagine that to provoke the vets brown may do something like that to get them riled. who knows.....bottom line is tho i think he wants to depend on the vets and any such rookie moves will simply be to motivate them.

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    look, i know it goes against LB's philsophy to start rookies, but really, u gotta play with what you'e got. antonio davis is old. jerome james is a career underachiever. matt barnes is nobody to write home about (at least not as a starter at this point in his career). so, yes, frye and lee still have a ways to go in terms of maturing, but i really believe that even at this moment, they are better options than the alternatives (davis, james, rose).

    --

    guys like taylor and crawford who have some offensive skills are being underused. im not particularly fond of either player, but i still think that they should used better. crawford can easily average at least 10-12 points a game in 25-30 mintes. mo taylor can get 7-9 points in 20-25 minutes. they should both be comming off the bench, and specific plays should be drawn out for them. maybe even a pick and roll with craw and mo against the other teams bench players will work, cuz mo can hit the outside jumper and craw is decent at shooting and/or slashing to the basket (he will have success against the other teams bench more than the other teams starters). larry needs to use them better...im cutting him slack because its still only 3 games into the season...but he better at least utilize his players better...i understand that this isnt a championship caliber roster, but it is definetely still a borderline playoff team and he should be able to do a good enough job with them to have them in the playoff hunt late in the season.

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