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Thread: Compromise Larry

  1. #16
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    I would also like to add to HomeTheater's argument that Marbury is severely overpaid and he chokes in key moments. He's just too mentally weak to play at New York.

  2. #17
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    Originally Posted by hometheaterguy
    Uh, who are you Marbury's cousin? Marbury's game is one of the most 1 dimensional games I have ever seen. Yes he can put up big numbers, but he never puts the team on his back and carries them. As far as your QR reference.... read my posts, I never wanted him here, didn't think he was what we needed. I want to get rid of him as well as Marbury! Yes, we should be critical of Curry.... He can't seem to stay healthy but he is sooo young with so much potential that he gets some time to prove himself. As does Frye, Lee, Ariza and Nate. These guys are very young and deserve some years to develop and hone their skills. Marbury has been shipped out of every orginazation that he has been with! Why do you think??? Now the knicks are talking about trading him??? See a pattern developing? He just might be better off at the 2 spot but do you really want a 6'2" 2 guard? You think any of the top 2 guards will fear him? Face it, marbury is a 'tweener, who happens to have tremendous physical abilities, but because of his size he is religated to the 1 spot (which was his school postion). His game and his basketball mind makes him a bad fit for any team. He is a 6 foot 2 inch scorer... What the hell can any team do with that?
    Well, why are you expecting that from him. If we trade him what are we going to get him for?

    Knick fans are totally confused. Most Knick fans think the player's contract determines your responsiblity to carry a team.

    Poor Allan Houston, the man never had a shot. The guy got hurt then he's enemy number 1. Had that been Othella Harrington back in the day it would be no big deal, b/c he is not a high paid talented player. But Houston couldnt come back. The comeback he had were too early which furthered damaged is knee, thank to media nad impatient fans.

    Steph, like Crawford, and Curry, all got to do it by committee. LB is in that group too. Steph is not the leader that we expect him to be. Honestly no one on this team is in a position to be. But this is a team sport. Marbury all the way too Butler gotta do their job.

    This is not the New York Marburys, this is the New York Knicks. When they lose I'm mad at all of them. I will get mad at a player for poor decision making a close games. But they all get the "L" they all get a togue lashing from me.

    They all need each other. Most would say steph played a great game last night. Well let me say that Eddie Curry and David Lee mad Steph look good, and Steph mad them two look good as well.

    Stop focusing on Steph ( a productive player) and start focusing on your team.

  3. #18
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    I don't know about you guys, but am starting to like Marbury and Nate on the court together at the same time. Nate is showing some real good perimeter defense and REBOUNDING. I think Larry finally got something in playing Steph and Nate together and bringing Crawford off the bench to replace either one. Now what about playing David Lee at the SF, finally someone heard my screams to let the kid play.

    I feel Larry is doing a great job, slower than I would like, but we are going to start seeing some real progress real soon. All he needed was a set rotation to get some chemistry going.

    Steph still is our best player and most likely will continue to be until we trade him for someone better. The man has done everything Larry has asked of him. I agree that Larry shoulda let Steph loose to win some more games, but we gotta look at the big picture here. Larry is trying to make a team, not just win a couple of games.

    As for Isiah, the fan got a garbage team when he got here. He traded everybody from that team and got this bunch that we have now. OK, we ain't perfect but we sure have alot more talent than we did before. Plus Isiah's plan was to stock up in talent so that he would have enough pieces to make a big move, to bring a superstar to NY. Now all we gotta do is sit back and wait. We got some talent, a few expiring contracts....hey you never know, maybe Garnett will still be traded.

  4. #19
    Knicks Guru hometheaterguy's Avatar
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    Isiah has made some very suspicious moves, in my opinion. Malik Rose's contract is shameful! Taylor's contract is as well but at least it had less years, but still was a shameful trade. Getting rid of Kieth VanHorn, in my opinion, was the dumbest thing he did as the Kincks GM! The KVH/Marbury combo was starting to click and we were actually wining and he pulled of the TT trade and we have never recovered from that! Why did he get rid of him??? Because Kieth wasn't his guy??? That is putting pride over the teams success! Now, we have the largest payroll in the NBA and the most mediocre talent in the NBA! If the Knicks want to get on the wining trail, they need to get rid of Steph, QR, Taylor, Malik Rose and JJ. They need to do this either through trades or contracts exipring. I don't want to see them trade these guys for more garbage either. If we can only get garbage back, then hold on and let the contracts run out.

  5. #20
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    Originally Posted by hometheaterguy
    Isiah has made some very suspicious moves, in my opinion. Malik Rose's contract is shameful! Taylor's contract is as well but at least it had less years, but still was a shameful trade. Getting rid of Kieth VanHorn, in my opinion, was the dumbest thing he did as the Kincks GM! The KVH/Marbury combo was starting to click and we were actually wining and he pulled of the TT trade and we have never recovered from that! Why did he get rid of him??? Because Kieth wasn't his guy??? That is putting pride over the teams success! Now, we have the largest payroll in the NBA and the most mediocre talent in the NBA! If the Knicks want to get on the wining trail, they need to get rid of Steph, QR, Taylor, Malik Rose and JJ. They need to do this either through trades or contracts exipring. I don't want to see them trade these guys for more garbage either. If we can only get garbage back, then hold on and let the contracts run out.
    The Malik Rose and Talor trade is hal of the story. It made no sense, we got more power forwards, enlarged our salary and to cap space off the other teams in the deal. Ahh but Malik rose came with a draft pick that eventually became...David Lee.

    Kurt Thomas got Q!! and Nate Robinson.

  6. #21
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    'starbury' is going no-where.. with 76m still left on his contract, he is virtually untradable.

    as to the comment that 'starbury' was originally brought in as a '2'... why do u bring in the 'best damn point guard in the nba' to play the 2 spot???, especially with his defense' or should i say ...
    'lack-of'.. didn't he ever see a give n go in coney island... cause he sure does not know how to defend one in the nba...

    no we are stuck with mr towel head .

  7. #22
    Next season, keep waiting donchris's Avatar
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    Are you guys fans or novelists? There is alot of hate on here. Once again Marbury is going no were. You can't honestly think he's the problem and if he's traded we'll be a playoff contender can you? Injured players and unproductive players that don't play D. One demintional? What games are you watching. There really is no one that you can compair Steph too. He's a scoring point guard. That's what he does and he's the only guy on the team that can score at this point. Understand that Marbury is the most consistant scorer of an inconsistant team. Trading him is rediculus.

  8. #23
    Knicks Guru hometheaterguy's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by donchris
    Are you guys fans or novelists? There is alot of hate on here. Once again Marbury is going no were. You can't honestly think he's the problem and if he's traded we'll be a playoff contender can you? Injured players and unproductive players that don't play D. One demintional? What games are you watching. There really is no one that you can compair Steph too. He's a scoring point guard. That's what he does and he's the only guy on the team that can score at this point. Understand that Marbury is the most consistant scorer of an inconsistant team. Trading him is rediculus.
    Ok, this is the last time I want to discuss Marbury, even I am getting bored with it. Marbury's game, while it is self promoting, it is a negative for the team. He does not distribute the ball and wants to always take the shot. Look at his history. He was with the Timberwolves.... He wasn't happy because he wanted to score more... The guy is with KG and all he can think about is himself. With both NJ and Pheonix, after he left so many players flurished...... Joe Johnson's numbers actually picked up that very same month of the trade when Marbury came to NY. In fact, every team had a wining season the following year. Every team Steph has played on, no matter who coaches him, the team looks exactly the same......... Everyone is standing around while Marbury drives to the basket to chuck up his shots or flings up a 3 pointer. I mean, it looks like the same exact team wearing different uniforms! Yes, he puts up high numbers but at the cost of the rest of the team. They end up becoming very stagnet and lifeless. For all the Marbury defenders, have you guys ever seen him play on any of these other teams???? How uninspired their teams were when he was there, and how exciting they became after his departure?

  9. #24
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    Originally Posted by hometheaterguy
    Originally Posted by donchris
    Are you guys fans or novelists? There is alot of hate on here. Once again Marbury is going no were. You can't honestly think he's the problem and if he's traded we'll be a playoff contender can you? Injured players and unproductive players that don't play D. One demintional? What games are you watching. There really is no one that you can compair Steph too. He's a scoring point guard. That's what he does and he's the only guy on the team that can score at this point. Understand that Marbury is the most consistant scorer of an inconsistant team. Trading him is rediculus.
    Ok, this is the last time I want to discuss Marbury, even I am getting bored with it. Marbury's game, while it is self promoting, it is a negative for the team. He does not distribute the ball and wants to always take the shot. Look at his history. He was with the Timberwolves.... He wasn't happy because he wanted to score more... The guy is with KG and all he can think about is himself. With both NJ and Pheonix, after he left so many players flurished...... Joe Johnson's numbers actually picked up that very same month of the trade when Marbury came to NY. In fact, every team had a wining season the following year. Every team Steph has played on, no matter who coaches him, the team looks exactly the same......... Everyone is standing around while Marbury drives to the basket to chuck up his shots or flings up a 3 pointer. I mean, it looks like the same exact team wearing different uniforms! Yes, he puts up high numbers but at the cost of the rest of the team. They end up becoming very stagnet and lifeless. For all the Marbury defenders, have you guys ever seen him play on any of these other teams???? How uninspired their teams were when he was there, and how exciting they became after his departure?
    I'm well aware of the Marbury impact. Teams getting better when he leaves and stuff. Most of the time they get back pretty good talent for Steph. Trading Steph is not the worst idea in the world, but it is not the best neither. He is not Nash, he is not Kidd. He is a very talented and productive basketball players who contributes alot.

    With the type of backcourt we have, Steph must not be traded. Crawford and Nate are undersized 2 guards Stephs scoring ability makes up for that weakness.

    I remember before Steph came here, this team had serviceable points. Eisley, Ward, and Williams. However the problem was we had no penetrator on that team that could breakdown and collapse a defense. Now every one wanst a pg just to get guys involved more.

    With out Steph, Crawfords game would be shut down.

    U guys are missing the point that our defense is the problem.

  10. #25
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    The whole season I'm wondering what coach Brown was the right man for the job. Before he arrived it was known that Brown hates it to use young players, that he only thinks defense, ...
    For me the right choice had to be F. Saunders. With all the offense potential the team has, the record woult be better.
    Brown is stubborn and has only one basketballvision he sticks to. He's not that great that all people think: f.ex. i really doubt he knows an offense that can deal a 3-2 zone: in the Olympics the U.S. team really had trouble with it. Last year in the finals, the Spurs often went in zone-defense and the Piston offense struggled a lot, ...

  11. #26
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    Offense is nothing if you can't stop the other team from scoring. Everything begins with defense. Defense leads to fastbreak points.
    Its an easy concept to understand why is it so difficult for some people to grasp it.
    LB wants the them to play defense first and foremost i.e. blocks, rebounds, second chance points, fast break points. We are not equipped to play a half court game.

  12. #27
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    I still believe contrary to popular opinion on this thread that LB is the one to couch this team. I'm willing to give him all the time he needs to get this team winning even if it takes a year or more.

  13. #28
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    Originally Posted by hometheaterguy
    Riley and Phil Jackson have taken over ready made teams. Riley came to NY when the Knicks had the core of: Ewing, Oakley, Mark Jackson, Wilkens. Mot to mention the Xman joined that year as well. So all Riley really needed was a piece or 2 to really define the team and make it a contender. He took over a team that was rich in defensive players; players that were physical and could force their will on to their opponents. So Riley, who came from show time, knew that the strenght of this new team wasn't in show time but a slow paced, defensive laden game.

    Phil Jackson took over the Bulls when they had MJ, Bill Cartright, Pippen and Paxson.
    Both Coaches moved on to other teams that were laden with talent as well. So, you really think it is a true comparison of Brown to those guys when brown inherts the most disfunctional team ever constructed as to Riley and Jackson who inherited 2 centers, and 2 forwards that are in the 100 greatest players to play the game. I think you need to rethink your stance. Brown is sitting with a team that was thrown together with no rhyme or reason. There is no coherency with this team, no identity or direction. Also, you have Marbury who is the worst point guard in the league and at the same time is one of the most talented palyers. Curry who can't play 2 games in a row! QR and JC who, between them, would like nothing more than to throw 3 pointers all day. Who plays D on this team??? Frye??? No! He will be a very good player in time but he is not a good defensive player right now. So, there is NO comparison to the situation with what Brown walked into as to what Riley and Jackson walked into.
    One last thing. Jackson is NOW, for the first time in his career taking over a team that is dissfunctional and by the way, one of those disfunctional players is Kobe Bryant. So he still has a veteran super star to work with!
    Dude if you think that Riley walked into a "ready made team" you are so way off it's not even funny (which Knick forward on that team would you put in the top 100 of all time??). In any case, that's an argument for another time. Getting back to the topic at hand...you totally missed the point I was making. Riley, yes, for years ran a team on "showtime" high offense...he came to the Knicks and rather than trying to turn them into the same thing, he adapted his own style and methods to make the most of what he had. As for Phil Jackson, yeah he DID have a ready made team with the Bulls, I won't dispute that and I even said the same thing myself. This season however he has a far worse team, and I'd argue even with less talent than the Knicks...but he's also realized that the only way they can win is to let it all ride on his one true superstar player...and that's why they're staying competitive.

    LB on the other hand has come here and rather than adapting himself to play to the strengths of the team, he's trying to force them to adapt to him and his system. That's not what I call a "great" coach. That said, this team has won 2 in a row now and looked good doing it. LB has also finally seemingly settled on a rotation as well...so if they can somehow go on a major tear and salvage this season, I'll be the first one to take back what I said.

  14. #29
    Next season, keep waiting donchris's Avatar
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    All this talk about getting rid of Steph getting rid of Thomas and getting rid of coach Brown is nonsence. You guys are not knicks fans. Go join the Heat bandwagon losers. By the way, Starbury had 23 pts 15 asts and 4 steels tonight against the Sonics. Can the move Marbuy coalition please STFU! And please stop all this damn complaining about the knicks and this talk about removing everyone. Cause the fact is when we do well all you guys are on coaches and Steph's d!&k.

  15. #30
    Knicks Guru hometheaterguy's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by RMK-NYK
    Dude if you think that Riley walked into a "ready made team" you are so way off it's not even funny (which Knick forward on that team would you put in the top 100 of all time??). In any case, that's an argument for another time. Getting back to the topic at hand...you totally missed the point I was making. Riley, yes, for years ran a team on "showtime" high offense...he came to the Knicks and rather than trying to turn them into the same thing, he adapted his own style and methods to make the most of what he had. As for Phil Jackson, yeah he DID have a ready made team with the Bulls, I won't dispute that and I even said the same thing myself. This season however he has a far worse team, and I'd argue even with less talent than the Knicks...but he's also realized that the only way they can win is to let it all ride on his one true superstar player...and that's why they're staying competitive.

    LB on the other hand has come here and rather than adapting himself to play to the strengths of the team, he's trying to force them to adapt to him and his system. That's not what I call a "great" coach. That said, this team has won 2 in a row now and looked good doing it. LB has also finally seemingly settled on a rotation as well...so if they can somehow go on a major tear and salvage this season, I'll be the first one to take back what I said.
    When I said that they took over a team with 2 centers and two Forwards, I lumped Jackson and Riley together. Riley had Ewing and phil had Shaq. Phil had Pippen and eventually Malone (Not to mention that Cobey will be in the hall of fame one day). I was just trying to not type so much.
    Also, do not fool yourself DUDE, Riley would not have come to the Knicks if Ewing wasn't on the team!! That is Rileys and Phils MO, they only take teams that have a superstar(s) on them. Before you bring up the Heat, Riley made sure he got Alonzo. In fact, it was rumored that Riley was talking with Zo before he took the job. Remember, both Malone and Mourning were trying to get Riley to trade for them to come to the Knicks. Mourning even stated hed would play the 4 if he came. When Riley came to the Knicks, they were already moving into that Defensive mode, he just took the rains and drove them harder and further than the Knicks had in the past. What Riley did correctly was to NOT change what was in progress. He did not let his ego come in and resculpt the team. He realized that the teams best cousre of action was the current path and he should be commended for that, no doubt. Brown, on the other habd, came to a disfunctional team that had no clue to what it was. Was it a running team? Also, you had a GM who wanted to get rid of any player that wasn't his, no matter if they fit or not. I think that Larry is doing a heck of a job! He has over paid mediocre talent that can't be moved so he is going to have to find a roll for them. He has very undersized players, so he will have to find a roll for them. He has very young, inexperienced players, ect.. So, all in all he has done a decent job. Besides, he gets a year to get settled.

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