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Thread: Isiah Must Make Trade to Save His Job

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    Originally Posted by donchris
    Isiah Thomas is not the problem. Thomas is credited with bringing Lary Brown to the NY so how can he be the reason for our loses. I think those that think he should go are ether extreemly young and uninformed or put too much stock in the NY Post. The Post is in the business of selling papers. Bad news is the best news for them. Also if you can think back to your champion Allan Houston and is over paid contract, you'd then know the real reason for our curse. The Houston deal was the mother of all f&*(ups. Just a brief history lesson for you guys. I dont think Thomas's job is really on the line. The Dolians know that NY is rebuilding. You guys say keep the young guys but young players notoriously do not play defence. Can't have it both ways. We do need to make trades but not for Portland *****s. Jalen Rose may be a step in the right direction although the trade will not really help our cap situation.
    Young and uninformed? Draft picks aside (that's a scouting issue), why don't you take a look at Isiah's track record and tell me exactly what Isiah has done that's shown he's a competent GM? He's made some awful signings and some awful trades that lead to us losing a number of improtant draft picks. I don't even understand the purpose of aqcuiring Rose...the draft pick is one consolation, but otherwise we've also acquired yet another bloated contract and we're really not that much better.

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    You want a good perspective on this deal...check this article out

    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    Again more reason to fire Thomas. The fact that Dolan seems to have full confidence in Isiah's clueless plan is scary as well.

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    The problem with the trades and free agents that Isiah has made is that most of the players he has brought in are "combo" players. Crawford-is he a pg or a SG? Nate Robinson-PG body, plays like SG, same thing with Steph, how do we use Lee, is Frye a center or power forward. Because Brown came relatiovely late during the summer, it has taken the whole year to find out how to use these guys, reeducate them on how to play the game. I don't think that Thomas has done that bad a job, when he got here we had bad players with terrible contracts that no one thought we would be able to move. He has traded them for guys who are talented but undisciplined, and we need Brown to make it a better team. Nobody on this board could say this was going to be a 14 and 31 team going into the season. We have the talent, we just need more leadership. and a couple of more pieces.
    PS-Mitch Lawrence, the writer in the Daily News is an ass, he doesn't even watch the games....

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    This is professional basketball. Crawford was signed to a huge deal and brought here to be some kind of star SG...but instead he's another example of Isiah's idiotic spending. The Bulls were more than thrilled to let him go.

    If you think that Isiah has not done a bad job, then you're denying the facts and wearing rose colored glasses. Simply moving players doesn't mean he did a good job...he's actually added payroll and made the team worse...how can that be a good thing? He put together a team this year that has no real PG...no SF....and the team has the highest payroll in the league, yet the worst record. How is that good?? Do you really see a bright future with this team? And when any FA is available, we will never be able to sign them since Isiah would rather bring in a mediocre player with a huge contract and thus remove any kind of cap flexibility.

    Mitch Lawrence put it real well....and he's not the only one saying these things.

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    Knicks Guru hometheaterguy's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by RMK-NYK
    This is professional basketball. Crawford was signed to a huge deal and brought here to be some kind of star SG...but instead he's another example of Isiah's idiotic spending. The Bulls were more than thrilled to let him go.

    If you think that Isiah has not done a bad job, then you're denying the facts and wearing rose colored glasses. Simply moving players doesn't mean he did a good job...he's actually added payroll and made the team worse...how can that be a good thing? He put together a team this year that has no real PG...no SF....and the team has the highest payroll in the league, yet the worst record. How is that good?? Do you really see a bright future with this team? And when any FA is available, we will never be able to sign them since Isiah would rather bring in a mediocre player with a huge contract and thus remove any kind of cap flexibility.

    Mitch Lawrence put it real well....and he's not the only one saying these things.
    Listen, Isiah inherited a team that was in cap hell. He also inherited players that were mediocre at best. Thomas is doing the best he can with what he was given. He traded garbage players and got back some youth, draft picks and yes, some garbage players. He has to constantly turn over the roster to hope that he hits some magic combo that works. What exactly should Isiah have done differently? I think trading VanHorn was not a good move because he was actually clicking with Marbury. I agreed that Kurt needed to be moved but getting QR for him wasn’t smart because it wasn’t what the Knicks needed! I also think he gave into Marbury way too much as well! I wasn't a fan of the Malik trade and the Taylor trade but I understand that he took on money to get draft picks. Also, Jalen can be trade bait next season as well. So, if Jalen somehow contributes this year and allows us to maybe make an off season move using his contract, then Isiah did alright with this trade. The fact is, the only other option that Isiah had was to do nothing and sit on the players he inherited and let their contracts run out. So we (the fans) would sit and watch years of horrendous basketball…At these ticket prices??? I highly doubt it! He brought Marbury in, Larry Brown in and made some good drafts!

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    I still think Thomas missed a big opportunity in letting Vince Carter slip by him and go to Nets. And I think that he needs a big name instead of a bunch of mediocre players.

    Paul Pierce! please trade Crawford if you have to Zeke.

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    Originally Posted by hometheaterguy
    Originally Posted by RMK-NYK
    This is professional basketball. Crawford was signed to a huge deal and brought here to be some kind of star SG...but instead he's another example of Isiah's idiotic spending. The Bulls were more than thrilled to let him go.

    If you think that Isiah has not done a bad job, then you're denying the facts and wearing rose colored glasses. Simply moving players doesn't mean he did a good job...he's actually added payroll and made the team worse...how can that be a good thing? He put together a team this year that has no real PG...no SF....and the team has the highest payroll in the league, yet the worst record. How is that good?? Do you really see a bright future with this team? And when any FA is available, we will never be able to sign them since Isiah would rather bring in a mediocre player with a huge contract and thus remove any kind of cap flexibility.

    Mitch Lawrence put it real well....and he's not the only one saying these things.
    Listen, Isiah inherited a team that was in cap hell. He also inherited players that were mediocre at best. Thomas is doing the best he can with what he was given. He traded garbage players and got back some youth, draft picks and yes, some garbage players. He has to constantly turn over the roster to hope that he hits some magic combo that works. What exactly should Isiah have done differently? I think trading VanHorn was not a good move because he was actually clicking with Marbury. I agreed that Kurt needed to be moved but getting QR for him wasn’t smart because it wasn’t what the Knicks needed! I also think he gave into Marbury way too much as well! I wasn't a fan of the Malik trade and the Taylor trade but I understand that he took on money to get draft picks. Also, Jalen can be trade bait next season as well. So, if Jalen somehow contributes this year and allows us to maybe make an off season move using his contract, then Isiah did alright with this trade. The fact is, the only other option that Isiah had was to do nothing and sit on the players he inherited and let their contracts run out. So we (the fans) would sit and watch years of horrendous basketball…At these ticket prices??? I highly doubt it! He brought Marbury in, Larry Brown in and made some good drafts!
    Dude...you mentioned all of Isiah's bad trades, and that doesn't even cover the whole of it. With whatever money he did have, he went and signed the likes of Vin Baker and Jerome James. Those were two totally moronic moves. He got lucky that he was able to move Baker, but James is probably stuck on this team forever. I doubt any other team would be dumb enough to take him on with that awful contract.

    Anyone could sit there and take a bad roster and make moves...the fact is that all the moves he made were dumb ones. And for all the talk of Isiah wanting to rebuild this Rose move makes no sense. Do you really think pick #20 would lead to any kind of great talent? Highly unlikely. If this move is a power play like some think, he really needs to be sent packing ASAP...his stupid agendas should not come ahead of the team. And in case you haven't realized...a roster is not built on trades. It's built on FA signings and draft picks. Since Isiah keeps treating the knicks like the NBA vacuum cleaner, literally allowing the league to send all bad contracts to us, he's taking away any chance of a good FA signing.

    The ideal thing would be for both Isiah and Dolan to leave (as far as I see it, the mess began with Dolan taking over) but the former is the only realistic option. Once Isiah is gone, the future can be brighter.

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    Originally Posted by RMK-NYK
    Dude...you mentioned all of Isiah's bad trades, and that doesn't even cover the whole of it. With whatever money he did have, he went and signed the likes of Vin Baker and Jerome James. Those were two totally moronic moves. He got lucky that he was able to move Baker, but James is probably stuck on this team forever. I doubt any other team would be dumb enough to take him on with that awful contract.

    Anyone could sit there and take a bad roster and make moves...the fact is that all the moves he made were dumb ones. And for all the talk of Isiah wanting to rebuild this Rose move makes no sense. Do you really think pick #20 would lead to any kind of great talent? Highly unlikely. If this move is a power play like some think, he really needs to be sent packing ASAP...his stupid agendas should not come ahead of the team. And in case you haven't realized...a roster is not built on trades. It's built on FA signings and draft picks. Since Isiah keeps treating the knicks like the NBA vacuum cleaner, literally allowing the league to send all bad contracts to us, he's taking away any chance of a good FA signing.

    The ideal thing would be for both Isiah and Dolan to leave (as far as I see it, the mess began with Dolan taking over) but the former is the only realistic option. Once Isiah is gone, the future can be brighter.
    When Isiah got Baker I didn't think it was that bad. Yes, it was a gamble and yes, he resigned him when he shouldn't have but what was he supposed to do. He had nothing to sign players with. A mid and a low level... that is it. What impact player is he signing for that? Also, when you have a grabage team, you have to over pay to get people to come a play for you! Who in their right mind wants any part of this loosing team!??! Yes, he didn't get the Carter deal done, but from what I understand Toronto wanted the world! They took nothing from NJ but wanted the world from NY. If I had to give him a rating, I really wouldn't know what to give him. He took a GM job with a team that is basically a dead team. Capped out with long term contracts. Mediocre to down right aweful players that own these bad contracts. So, he can't trade anyone and he can't sign anyone. So, what would you have done differently if you had the GM job???
    By the way, Trever Ariza was the 43rd pick in the second round....

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    Actually Isiah had the chance to get Vince but he did not want to give up Crawford to get him.

  10. #25
    Next season, keep waiting donchris's Avatar
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    Hine site is 20/20. We can look back at evey trade in the history of this league and say "well they could have done this or they could have done that." But that kind of thinking and talk is pointless. If you really think that a new GM could do something more with our current roster of talent or lack there of, your sadly mistaken. Thomas brought in Eddie Curry and drafted Channing Frye and Nate the so called Great Robinson. Another GM may not have drafted the same way. Think back to the draft. No one really thought Frye would do much. He was labled as a "soft Marcus Camby." But our GM saw through that. All of this is in addition to Thomas walking in to a disaster! That's what our last GM left us. I find it funny that every one is so quick to point fingers but ether don't know or don't acknowledge the full history. Now you say the owner should go! Isiah has taken on the task of rebuilding one of the leagues worst and over paid teams. This requires bringing in talent (which costs more money) and at the same time try to reduce the team salary. It's a double edge sword, seemingly a no win situation for the GM and or coach, or point guard because @sswholes like you guys and the NY Post smell blood in the water. Every thing I've mentioned are stepping stones that Thomas has created.

    You say drafting is a scout issue but Isiah did the drafting, brought in Larry Brown and Eddie Curry as I stated before, and as a result the Knicks are more competitive and defesive minded team. What bad move did he make? He traded Thomas for Richardson, who's not doing much right now but is still young. In what way are we worse off than last year? If we are better off than Thomas is clearly not the problem.

    You guys thing tading is easy. I don't know if your expecting Tmac or what. Rose is no Tmac no question about that. But he's already done more in one game than Tony Davis typically does in three. I think it was a good trade.

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    Knicks Guru hometheaterguy's Avatar
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    Listen, the bottom line is if Isiah can land Ratliff (never mind K-mart) with out parting with any young talent.... Then he has made some good moves. I If we can get K-mart and keep Frye, I will be impressed. I wouldn't trade Frye for Kenyon because Martin is a bit of a risk with his injury issues but I would part with Lee. I think Isiah has made some bad moves (KT for QR) is one but the draft balances that out. I got another one, Isiah wouldn't trade QR for Kwame Brown! I remember everyone is this forum was saying not to make that move! What do you think now!

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    Originally Posted by hometheaterguy
    Originally Posted by RMK-NYK
    Dude...you mentioned all of Isiah's bad trades, and that doesn't even cover the whole of it. With whatever money he did have, he went and signed the likes of Vin Baker and Jerome James. Those were two totally moronic moves. He got lucky that he was able to move Baker, but James is probably stuck on this team forever. I doubt any other team would be dumb enough to take him on with that awful contract.

    Anyone could sit there and take a bad roster and make moves...the fact is that all the moves he made were dumb ones. And for all the talk of Isiah wanting to rebuild this Rose move makes no sense. Do you really think pick #20 would lead to any kind of great talent? Highly unlikely. If this move is a power play like some think, he really needs to be sent packing ASAP...his stupid agendas should not come ahead of the team. And in case you haven't realized...a roster is not built on trades. It's built on FA signings and draft picks. Since Isiah keeps treating the knicks like the NBA vacuum cleaner, literally allowing the league to send all bad contracts to us, he's taking away any chance of a good FA signing.

    The ideal thing would be for both Isiah and Dolan to leave (as far as I see it, the mess began with Dolan taking over) but the former is the only realistic option. Once Isiah is gone, the future can be brighter.
    When Isiah got Baker I didn't think it was that bad. Yes, it was a gamble and yes, he resigned him when he shouldn't have but what was he supposed to do. He had nothing to sign players with. A mid and a low level... that is it. What impact player is he signing for that? Also, when you have a grabage team, you have to over pay to get people to come a play for you! Who in their right mind wants any part of this loosing team!??! Yes, he didn't get the Carter deal done, but from what I understand Toronto wanted the world! They took nothing from NJ but wanted the world from NY. If I had to give him a rating, I really wouldn't know what to give him. He took a GM job with a team that is basically a dead team. Capped out with long term contracts. Mediocre to down right aweful players that own these bad contracts. So, he can't trade anyone and he can't sign anyone. So, what would you have done differently if you had the GM job???
    By the way, Trever Ariza was the 43rd pick in the second round....
    Trevor Ariza was the 43rd pick yes...what's your point? He's currently not even part of the rotation and by Isiah trading for Jalen Rose, he's effectively given Brown an excuse to bury him on the inactive list/last man off the bench. As far as I'm concerned, Ariza was the product of a great deal of hype, and at present is living up to that pick. If you're trying to say that he is proof that we can get something good out of pick number 20 something, then you need to find a better example. It's highly unlikely that either pick we get next year can be an impact player.

    Signing Vin Baker was an awful deal, especially since there were many reports around that time that Erick Dampier badly wanted to come to the Knicks and was willing to take the mid level exception...by signing Baker, Isiah effectively squashed that. I first guessed that move, and I was right, when Baker basically never played. And then after Isiah hyped up Nazr Mohammed so much (and the guy actually slowly started to find some kind of niche) he turned around and traded him off...that made no sense and was a totally hypocritical move that reeked of an itchy trigger finger and no plan whatsoever.

    I also would NOT have ever in a million years signed Jerome James to such an inflated contract. I can't even begin to say how incredibly DUMB a move that was. I don't think we even had any competition for him, which made that move ever dumber. And you said how Isiah had mediocre to bad players with bad contracts...yeah and he's gone ahead and replaced them with more of the same. And are you kidding me about the overpaying for players excuse??? It's NYC...a player can come here and make a ton of money off marketing, etc alone. There's no need to overpay to this extent...and you think overpaying for garbage like Vin Baker and Jerome James is worth it???

    The only thing I'll give Isiah any props for is his drafting...but that's it. In all other facets he's been a 100% awful GM, and needs to go. I don't mind the losing if I can see a light at the end of the tunnel...frankly with this team I just don't.

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    Originally Posted by donchris
    Hine site is 20/20. We can look back at evey trade in the history of this league and say "well they could have done this or they could have done that." But that kind of thinking and talk is pointless. If you really think that a new GM could do something more with our current roster of talent or lack there of, your sadly mistaken. Thomas brought in Eddie Curry and drafted Channing Frye and Nate the so called Great Robinson. Another GM may not have drafted the same way. Think back to the draft. No one really thought Frye would do much. He was labled as a "soft Marcus Camby." But our GM saw through that. All of this is in addition to Thomas walking in to a disaster! That's what our last GM left us. I find it funny that every one is so quick to point fingers but ether don't know or don't acknowledge the full history. Now you say the owner should go! Isiah has taken on the task of rebuilding one of the leagues worst and over paid teams. This requires bringing in talent (which costs more money) and at the same time try to reduce the team salary. It's a double edge sword, seemingly a no win situation for the GM and or coach, or point guard because @sswholes like you guys and the NY Post smell blood in the water. Every thing I've mentioned are stepping stones that Thomas has created.

    You say drafting is a scout issue but Isiah did the drafting, brought in Larry Brown and Eddie Curry as I stated before, and as a result the Knicks are more competitive and defesive minded team. What bad move did he make? He traded Thomas for Richardson, who's not doing much right now but is still young. In what way are we worse off than last year? If we are better off than Thomas is clearly not the problem.

    You guys thing tading is easy. I don't know if your expecting Tmac or what. Rose is no Tmac no question about that. But he's already done more in one game than Tony Davis typically does in three. I think it was a good trade.
    It's NOT hindsight when everyone questions your moves right from the start. And why don't you lay off the curse words there buddy? Those of us that don't like Isiah are not wearing the rose colored glasses and not drinking the kool-aid that you seem to be gulping down. I'm not decrying any of Isiah's drafting...but he's made so many blunders with trades and free agent signings it's not even funny. And are you seriously going to tell me that bringing Eddy Curry here made this team a competitive and "defensive minded team?" Have you seen their record and the way these guys defend??? If they were indeed defense minded, don't you think LB would have gotten something otu of that? These players can't defend worth crap, and Eddy Curry came to the Knicks with a rep of being an awful rebounder and a below avg shot blocker...actually this team has no shot blocker at the moment.

    And you're assessment of Channing Frye, pre draft is way off. He was definitely a lottery pick coming in. Yes, he did have the knock of being a "soft Marcus Camby" type, but he was still going in the lottery no doubt, and many publications had predicted this. Isiah drafted him, but don't make it sound like he was a projected 2nd rounder or something.

    As far as bringing in talent...yeah you need money to do that, but instead Isiah used lots of money to bring in crap talent. This guy has no track record of success off the court, and so far he's tried rebuilding this team twice. He's shown no semblance of having a consistent plan, and instead he's shown he's impatient and has a case of roster ADD and an itchy trigger finger. Seriously, I'm sure any GM around the league, with a mediocre and vastly overpaid player on their team, calls the Knicks first cause they know they don't need to do much to entice Isiah to take it.

    All I'll say is if Isiah can pull of this rumored deal to get K-Mart and Watson, without giving up Frye, I'll give him his props. Given his track record though, I can see us giving up a lot and ending up with Bryan Russel instead.

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    Your Best Bet is B Ez datruth's Avatar
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    [quote="hometheaterguy"]Listen, the bottom line is if Isiah can land Ratliff (never mind K-mart) with out parting with any young talent.... Then he has made some good moves. I If we can get K-mart and keep Frye, I will be impressed. I wouldn't trade Frye for Kenyon because Martin is a bit of a risk with his injury issues but I would part with Lee. I think Isiah has made some bad moves (KT for QR) is one but the draft balances that out. I got another one, Isiah wouldn't trade QR for Kwame Brown! I remember everyone is this forum was saying not to make that move! What do you think now![/quote]

    i hope u not trying to say to that u would back up isiah if he traded Q for kwame...Q is probably the knicks best one on one defender...yes Q has struggled on the offense but it dont get to the point where he messes up the offense...i just cant beleive u said kwame brown...u r a real hater and u gave up Q too fast..i thought nobody was a kwame believer anymore..its been like 4 to 5 years in da league and he got mediocre numbers, please man

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    Next season, keep waiting donchris's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by RMK-NYK
    Originally Posted by donchris
    Hine site is 20/20. We can look back at evey trade in the history of this league and say "well they could have done this or they could have done that." But that kind of thinking and talk is pointless. If you really think that a new GM could do something more with our current roster of talent or lack there of, your sadly mistaken. Thomas brought in Eddie Curry and drafted Channing Frye and Nate the so called Great Robinson. Another GM may not have drafted the same way. Think back to the draft. No one really thought Frye would do much. He was labled as a "soft Marcus Camby." But our GM saw through that. All of this is in addition to Thomas walking in to a disaster! That's what our last GM left us. I find it funny that every one is so quick to point fingers but ether don't know or don't acknowledge the full history. Now you say the owner should go! Isiah has taken on the task of rebuilding one of the leagues worst and over paid teams. This requires bringing in talent (which costs more money) and at the same time try to reduce the team salary. It's a double edge sword, seemingly a no win situation for the GM and or coach, or point guard because @sswholes like you guys and the NY Post smell blood in the water. Every thing I've mentioned are stepping stones that Thomas has created.

    You say drafting is a scout issue but Isiah did the drafting, brought in Larry Brown and Eddie Curry as I stated before, and as a result the Knicks are more competitive and defesive minded team. What bad move did he make? He traded Thomas for Richardson, who's not doing much right now but is still young. In what way are we worse off than last year? If we are better off than Thomas is clearly not the problem.

    You guys thing tading is easy. I don't know if your expecting Tmac or what. Rose is no Tmac no question about that. But he's already done more in one game than Tony Davis typically does in three. I think it was a good trade.
    It's NOT hindsight when everyone questions your moves right from the start. And why don't you lay off the curse words there buddy? Those of us that don't like Isiah are not wearing the rose colored glasses and not drinking the kool-aid that you seem to be gulping down. I'm not decrying any of Isiah's drafting...but he's made so many blunders with trades and free agent signings it's not even funny. And are you seriously going to tell me that bringing Eddy Curry here made this team a competitive and "defensive minded team?" Have you seen their record and the way these guys defend??? If they were indeed defense minded, don't you think LB would have gotten something otu of that? These players can't defend worth crap, and Eddy Curry came to the Knicks with a rep of being an awful rebounder and a below avg shot blocker...actually this team has no shot blocker at the moment.

    And you're assessment of Channing Frye, pre draft is way off. He was definitely a lottery pick coming in. Yes, he did have the knock of being a "soft Marcus Camby" type, but he was still going in the lottery no doubt, and many publications had predicted this. Isiah drafted him, but don't make it sound like he was a projected 2nd rounder or something.

    As far as bringing in talent...yeah you need money to do that, but instead Isiah used lots of money to bring in crap talent. This guy has no track record of success off the court, and so far he's tried rebuilding this team twice. He's shown no semblance of having a consistent plan, and instead he's shown he's impatient and has a case of roster ADD and an itchy trigger finger. Seriously, I'm sure any GM around the league, with a mediocre and vastly overpaid player on their team, calls the Knicks first cause they know they don't need to do much to entice Isiah to take it.

    All I'll say is if Isiah can pull of this rumored deal to get K-Mart and Watson, without giving up Frye, I'll give him his props. Given his track record though, I can see us giving up a lot and ending up with Bryan Russel instead.
    Recap. Who's everyone? The NY Post, NY times or NY fans who seem to complain about every thing. And what's this nonsence about rose colored glasses? You can't possibly see any thing with your head so far up your @$$! If you don't think that the Knicks are not more competitive than we were last year then your simply not watching the games. On paper it was brilliant to bring in Curry and Richardson. (On Paper) No one could tell that Richarson would do next to nothing and Curry would have an inconsistant season. A GM is not a fortune teller. As far as Thomas's ability to bring in talent. Were's the money? Ask Allan Houston.

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