Isiah Must Make Trade to Save His Job

hometheaterguy said:

RMK-NYK said:

This is professional basketball. Crawford was signed to a huge deal and brought here to be some kind of star SG...but instead he's another example of Isiah's idiotic spending. The Bulls were more than thrilled to let him go.

If you think that Isiah has not done a bad job, then you're denying the facts and wearing rose colored glasses. Simply moving players doesn't mean he did a good job...he's actually added payroll and made the team worse...how can that be a good thing? He put together a team this year that has no real PG...no SF....and the team has the highest payroll in the league, yet the worst record. How is that good?? Do you really see a bright future with this team? And when any FA is available, we will never be able to sign them since Isiah would rather bring in a mediocre player with a huge contract and thus remove any kind of cap flexibility.

Mitch Lawrence put it real well....and he's not the only one saying these things.

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Listen, Isiah inherited a team that was in cap hell. He also inherited players that were mediocre at best. Thomas is doing the best he can with what he was given. He traded garbage players and got back some youth, draft picks and yes, some garbage players. He has to constantly turn over the roster to hope that he hits some magic combo that works. What exactly should Isiah have done differently? I think trading VanHorn was not a good move because he was actually clicking with Marbury. I agreed that Kurt needed to be moved but getting QR for him wasn’t smart because it wasn’t what the Knicks needed! I also think he gave into Marbury way too much as well! I wasn't a fan of the Malik trade and the Taylor trade but I understand that he took on money to get draft picks. Also, Jalen can be trade bait next season as well. So, if Jalen somehow contributes this year and allows us to maybe make an off season move using his contract, then Isiah did alright with this trade. The fact is, the only other option that Isiah had was to do nothing and sit on the players he inherited and let their contracts run out. So we (the fans) would sit and watch years of horrendous basketball…At these ticket prices??? I highly doubt it! He brought Marbury in, Larry Brown in and made some good drafts!

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RMK-NYK said:

Dude...you mentioned all of Isiah's bad trades, and that doesn't even cover the whole of it. With whatever money he did have, he went and signed the likes of Vin Baker and Jerome James. Those were two totally moronic moves. He got lucky that he was able to move Baker, but James is probably stuck on this team forever. I doubt any other team would be dumb enough to take him on with that awful contract.

Anyone could sit there and take a bad roster and make moves...the fact is that all the moves he made were dumb ones. And for all the talk of Isiah wanting to rebuild this Rose move makes no sense. Do you really think pick #20 would lead to any kind of great talent? Highly unlikely. If this move is a power play like some think, he really needs to be sent packing ASAP...his stupid agendas should not come ahead of the team. And in case you haven't realized...a roster is not built on trades. It's built on FA signings and draft picks. Since Isiah keeps treating the knicks like the NBA vacuum cleaner, literally allowing the league to send all bad contracts to us, he's taking away any chance of a good FA signing.

The ideal thing would be for both Isiah and Dolan to leave (as far as I see it, the mess began with Dolan taking over) but the former is the only realistic option. Once Isiah is gone, the future can be brighter.

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hometheaterguy said:

RMK-NYK said:

Dude...you mentioned all of Isiah's bad trades, and that doesn't even cover the whole of it. With whatever money he did have, he went and signed the likes of Vin Baker and Jerome James. Those were two totally moronic moves. He got lucky that he was able to move Baker, but James is probably stuck on this team forever. I doubt any other team would be dumb enough to take him on with that awful contract.

Anyone could sit there and take a bad roster and make moves...the fact is that all the moves he made were dumb ones. And for all the talk of Isiah wanting to rebuild this Rose move makes no sense. Do you really think pick #20 would lead to any kind of great talent? Highly unlikely. If this move is a power play like some think, he really needs to be sent packing ASAP...his stupid agendas should not come ahead of the team. And in case you haven't realized...a roster is not built on trades. It's built on FA signings and draft picks. Since Isiah keeps treating the knicks like the NBA vacuum cleaner, literally allowing the league to send all bad contracts to us, he's taking away any chance of a good FA signing.

The ideal thing would be for both Isiah and Dolan to leave (as far as I see it, the mess began with Dolan taking over) but the former is the only realistic option. Once Isiah is gone, the future can be brighter.

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When Isiah got Baker I didn't think it was that bad. Yes, it was a gamble and yes, he resigned him when he shouldn't have but what was he supposed to do. He had nothing to sign players with. A mid and a low level... that is it. What impact player is he signing for that? Also, when you have a grabage team, you have to over pay to get people to come a play for you! Who in their right mind wants any part of this loosing team!??! Yes, he didn't get the Carter deal done, but from what I understand Toronto wanted the world! They took nothing from NJ but wanted the world from NY. If I had to give him a rating, I really wouldn't know what to give him. He took a GM job with a team that is basically a dead team. Capped out with long term contracts. Mediocre to down right aweful players that own these bad contracts. So, he can't trade anyone and he can't sign anyone. So, what would you have done differently if you had the GM job???
By the way, Trever Ariza was the 43rd pick in the second round....

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donchris said:

Hine site is 20/20. We can look back at evey trade in the history of this league and say "well they could have done this or they could have done that." But that kind of thinking and talk is pointless. If you really think that a new GM could do something more with our current roster of talent or lack there of, your sadly mistaken. Thomas brought in Eddie Curry and drafted Channing Frye and Nate the so called Great Robinson. Another GM may not have drafted the same way. Think back to the draft. No one really thought Frye would do much. He was labled as a "soft Marcus Camby." But our GM saw through that. All of this is in addition to Thomas walking in to a disaster! That's what our last GM left us. I find it funny that every one is so quick to point fingers but ether don't know or don't acknowledge the full history. Now you say the owner should go! Isiah has taken on the task of rebuilding one of the leagues worst and over paid teams. This requires bringing in talent (which costs more money) and at the same time try to reduce the team salary. It's a double edge sword, seemingly a no win situation for the GM and or coach, or point guard because @sswholes like you guys and the NY Post smell blood in the water. Every thing I've mentioned are stepping stones that Thomas has created.

You say drafting is a scout issue but Isiah did the drafting, brought in Larry Brown and Eddie Curry as I stated before, and as a result the Knicks are more competitive and defesive minded team. What bad move did he make? He traded Thomas for Richardson, who's not doing much right now but is still young. In what way are we worse off than last year? If we are better off than Thomas is clearly not the problem.

You guys thing tading is easy. I don't know if your expecting Tmac or what. Rose is no Tmac no question about that. But he's already done more in one game than Tony Davis typically does in three. I think it was a good trade.

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hometheaterguy said:

Listen, the bottom line is if Isiah can land Ratliff (never mind K-mart) with out parting with any young talent.... Then he has made some good moves. I If we can get K-mart and keep Frye, I will be impressed. I wouldn't trade Frye for Kenyon because Martin is a bit of a risk with his injury issues but I would part with Lee. I think Isiah has made some bad moves (KT for QR) is one but the draft balances that out. I got another one, Isiah wouldn't trade QR for Kwame Brown! I remember everyone is this forum was saying not to make that move! What do you think now![/quote]

i hope u not trying to say to that u would back up isiah if he traded Q for kwame...Q is probably the knicks best one on one defender...yes Q has struggled on the offense but it dont get to the point where he messes up the offense...i just cant beleive u said kwame brown...u r a real hater and u gave up Q too fast..i thought nobody was a kwame believer anymore..its been like 4 to 5 years in da league and he got mediocre numbers, please man

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RMK-NYK said:

donchris said:

Hine site is 20/20. We can look back at evey trade in the history of this league and say "well they could have done this or they could have done that." But that kind of thinking and talk is pointless. If you really think that a new GM could do something more with our current roster of talent or lack there of, your sadly mistaken. Thomas brought in Eddie Curry and drafted Channing Frye and Nate the so called Great Robinson. Another GM may not have drafted the same way. Think back to the draft. No one really thought Frye would do much. He was labled as a "soft Marcus Camby." But our GM saw through that. All of this is in addition to Thomas walking in to a disaster! That's what our last GM left us. I find it funny that every one is so quick to point fingers but ether don't know or don't acknowledge the full history. Now you say the owner should go! Isiah has taken on the task of rebuilding one of the leagues worst and over paid teams. This requires bringing in talent (which costs more money) and at the same time try to reduce the team salary. It's a double edge sword, seemingly a no win situation for the GM and or coach, or point guard because @sswholes like you guys and the NY Post smell blood in the water. Every thing I've mentioned are stepping stones that Thomas has created.

You say drafting is a scout issue but Isiah did the drafting, brought in Larry Brown and Eddie Curry as I stated before, and as a result the Knicks are more competitive and defesive minded team. What bad move did he make? He traded Thomas for Richardson, who's not doing much right now but is still young. In what way are we worse off than last year? If we are better off than Thomas is clearly not the problem.

You guys thing tading is easy. I don't know if your expecting Tmac or what. Rose is no Tmac no question about that. But he's already done more in one game than Tony Davis typically does in three. I think it was a good trade.

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It's NOT hindsight when everyone questions your moves right from the start. And why don't you lay off the curse words there buddy? Those of us that don't like Isiah are not wearing the rose colored glasses and not drinking the kool-aid that you seem to be gulping down. I'm not decrying any of Isiah's drafting...but he's made so many blunders with trades and free agent signings it's not even funny. And are you seriously going to tell me that bringing Eddy Curry here made this team a competitive and "defensive minded team?" Have you seen their record and the way these guys defend??? If they were indeed defense minded, don't you think LB would have gotten something otu of that? These players can't defend worth crap, and Eddy Curry came to the Knicks with a rep of being an awful rebounder and a below avg shot blocker...actually this team has no shot blocker at the moment.

And you're assessment of Channing Frye, pre draft is way off. He was definitely a lottery pick coming in. Yes, he did have the knock of being a "soft Marcus Camby" type, but he was still going in the lottery no doubt, and many publications had predicted this. Isiah drafted him, but don't make it sound like he was a projected 2nd rounder or something.

As far as bringing in talent...yeah you need money to do that, but instead Isiah used lots of money to bring in crap talent. This guy has no track record of success off the court, and so far he's tried rebuilding this team twice. He's shown no semblance of having a consistent plan, and instead he's shown he's impatient and has a case of roster ADD and an itchy trigger finger. Seriously, I'm sure any GM around the league, with a mediocre and vastly overpaid player on their team, calls the Knicks first cause they know they don't need to do much to entice Isiah to take it.

All I'll say is if Isiah can pull of this rumored deal to get K-Mart and Watson, without giving up Frye, I'll give him his props. Given his track record though, I can see us giving up a lot and ending up with Bryan Russel instead.

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datruth said:

hometheaterguy said:

Listen, the bottom line is if Isiah can land Ratliff (never mind K-mart) with out parting with any young talent.... Then he has made some good moves. I If we can get K-mart and keep Frye, I will be impressed. I wouldn't trade Frye for Kenyon because Martin is a bit of a risk with his injury issues but I would part with Lee. I think Isiah has made some bad moves (KT for QR) is one but the draft balances that out. I got another one, Isiah wouldn't trade QR for Kwame Brown! I remember everyone is this forum was saying not to make that move! What do you think now![/quote]

i hope u not trying to say to that u would back up isiah if he traded Q for kwame...Q is probably the knicks best one on one defender...yes Q has struggled on the offense but it dont get to the point where he messes up the offense...i just cant beleive u said kwame brown...u r a real hater and u gave up Q too fast..i thought nobody was a kwame believer anymore..its been like 4 to 5 years in da league and he got mediocre numbers, please man

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I've seen Kwame play and he is NOT what he was hyped to be. But, he can put in solid minutes and be a role player (not the super star he was supposed to be). I think Q is soo typical of what is wrong with the Knicks. He has injury problems, is inconsistant and is small for his position. He used to be a terific inside outside player that use to use his long range abilty to accent his abilty to drive. Now, he doesn't drive, sits and hoists 3 pointers all day and plays no minutes. How can you say anything positive about him? Kwame can, at the very least, give us some rebounds and someone to body up in the paint.

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donchris said:

RMK-NYK said:

donchris said:

Hine site is 20/20. We can look back at evey trade in the history of this league and say "well they could have done this or they could have done that." But that kind of thinking and talk is pointless. If you really think that a new GM could do something more with our current roster of talent or lack there of, your sadly mistaken. Thomas brought in Eddie Curry and drafted Channing Frye and Nate the so called Great Robinson. Another GM may not have drafted the same way. Think back to the draft. No one really thought Frye would do much. He was labled as a "soft Marcus Camby." But our GM saw through that. All of this is in addition to Thomas walking in to a disaster! That's what our last GM left us. I find it funny that every one is so quick to point fingers but ether don't know or don't acknowledge the full history. Now you say the owner should go! Isiah has taken on the task of rebuilding one of the leagues worst and over paid teams. This requires bringing in talent (which costs more money) and at the same time try to reduce the team salary. It's a double edge sword, seemingly a no win situation for the GM and or coach, or point guard because @sswholes like you guys and the NY Post smell blood in the water. Every thing I've mentioned are stepping stones that Thomas has created.

You say drafting is a scout issue but Isiah did the drafting, brought in Larry Brown and Eddie Curry as I stated before, and as a result the Knicks are more competitive and defesive minded team. What bad move did he make? He traded Thomas for Richardson, who's not doing much right now but is still young. In what way are we worse off than last year? If we are better off than Thomas is clearly not the problem.

You guys thing tading is easy. I don't know if your expecting Tmac or what. Rose is no Tmac no question about that. But he's already done more in one game than Tony Davis typically does in three. I think it was a good trade.

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It's NOT hindsight when everyone questions your moves right from the start. And why don't you lay off the curse words there buddy? Those of us that don't like Isiah are not wearing the rose colored glasses and not drinking the kool-aid that you seem to be gulping down. I'm not decrying any of Isiah's drafting...but he's made so many blunders with trades and free agent signings it's not even funny. And are you seriously going to tell me that bringing Eddy Curry here made this team a competitive and "defensive minded team?" Have you seen their record and the way these guys defend??? If they were indeed defense minded, don't you think LB would have gotten something otu of that? These players can't defend worth crap, and Eddy Curry came to the Knicks with a rep of being an awful rebounder and a below avg shot blocker...actually this team has no shot blocker at the moment.

And you're assessment of Channing Frye, pre draft is way off. He was definitely a lottery pick coming in. Yes, he did have the knock of being a "soft Marcus Camby" type, but he was still going in the lottery no doubt, and many publications had predicted this. Isiah drafted him, but don't make it sound like he was a projected 2nd rounder or something.

As far as bringing in talent...yeah you need money to do that, but instead Isiah used lots of money to bring in crap talent. This guy has no track record of success off the court, and so far he's tried rebuilding this team twice. He's shown no semblance of having a consistent plan, and instead he's shown he's impatient and has a case of roster ADD and an itchy trigger finger. Seriously, I'm sure any GM around the league, with a mediocre and vastly overpaid player on their team, calls the Knicks first cause they know they don't need to do much to entice Isiah to take it.

All I'll say is if Isiah can pull of this rumored deal to get K-Mart and Watson, without giving up Frye, I'll give him his props. Given his track record though, I can see us giving up a lot and ending up with Bryan Russel instead.

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Recap. Who's everyone? The NY Post, NY times or NY fans who seem to complain about every thing. And what's this nonsence about rose colored glasses? You can't possibly see any thing with your head so far up your @$$! If you don't think that the Knicks are not more competitive than we were last year then your simply not watching the games. On paper it was brilliant to bring in Curry and Richardson. (On Paper) No one could tell that Richarson would do next to nothing and Curry would have an inconsistant season. A GM is not a fortune teller. As far as Thomas's ability to bring in talent. Were's the money? Ask Allan Houston.

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trees said:

i dont know if anybody remembers scott layden?! that man not only stiffed us with allan houstons contract, but we also had to pay "lj" two extra years to further us into the cap. he drafted fred weiss who vinsanity embarassed out of the nba. he traded camby for who? mcdyess? mcwhack more like it. i know that later led us to steph, but maybe we'd be in another direction. think about this, the year we drafted weis, we couldve had artest. hate him or love him, better to play with him than against him right?

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trees said:

i dont know if anybody remembers scott layden?! that man not only stiffed us with allan houstons contract, but we also had to pay "lj" two extra years to further us into the cap. he drafted fred weiss who vinsanity embarassed out of the nba. he traded camby for who? mcdyess? mcwhack more like it. i know that later led us to steph, but maybe we'd be in another direction. think about this, the year we drafted weis, we couldve had artest. hate him or love him, better to play with him than against him right?

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hometheaterguy said:

Laydon is the catalyst for thie Knicks decent into cap hell! Isiah has added to that problem by bringing in more long term contracts. But, I can now see a method to his madness. Unlike Laydon who was clueless and non-directional in his moves, Isiah at least has a plan. Isiah walked into a situation that basically said do your job with both hands tied behind your back. He had NO money to sign anyone and no players that anyone wanted, so he couldn't make any decent trades. In order to shake things up and get a player that can actually make a difference, he needed to take on more bad contracts. In order to make 1 move that could help this franchise, he needed to make 2 others that hurt it! He needed to get Malik Rose in order to get that draft pick. Why would he want SanAntonio's draft pick??? Tto give him something to play with, in either actually using it to draft a player or in a trade sequence. Look at the Jalen deal; he will help the Knicks a little this year with some scoring and leadership. In the off season, his expiering contract might help us in a sign and trade deal. Not to mention the #1 draft pick that we got. Now we have 2 late #1s to either use or offer in a deal. Laydon didn't do anything like that; no long term direction in his thinking or actions. The Ewing deal was the blunder of the century for this franchise!

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