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Thread: Isiah Must Make Trade to Save His Job

  1. #31
    Knicks Guru hometheaterguy's Avatar
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    [quote="datruth"]
    Originally Posted by hometheaterguy
    Listen, the bottom line is if Isiah can land Ratliff (never mind K-mart) with out parting with any young talent.... Then he has made some good moves. I If we can get K-mart and keep Frye, I will be impressed. I wouldn't trade Frye for Kenyon because Martin is a bit of a risk with his injury issues but I would part with Lee. I think Isiah has made some bad moves (KT for QR) is one but the draft balances that out. I got another one, Isiah wouldn't trade QR for Kwame Brown! I remember everyone is this forum was saying not to make that move! What do you think now![/quote]

    i hope u not trying to say to that u would back up isiah if he traded Q for kwame...Q is probably the knicks best one on one defender...yes Q has struggled on the offense but it dont get to the point where he messes up the offense...i just cant beleive u said kwame brown...u r a real hater and u gave up Q too fast..i thought nobody was a kwame believer anymore..its been like 4 to 5 years in da league and he got mediocre numbers, please man
    I've seen Kwame play and he is NOT what he was hyped to be. But, he can put in solid minutes and be a role player (not the super star he was supposed to be). I think Q is soo typical of what is wrong with the Knicks. He has injury problems, is inconsistant and is small for his position. He used to be a terific inside outside player that use to use his long range abilty to accent his abilty to drive. Now, he doesn't drive, sits and hoists 3 pointers all day and plays no minutes. How can you say anything positive about him? Kwame can, at the very least, give us some rebounds and someone to body up in the paint.
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  2. #32
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    Originally Posted by donchris
    Originally Posted by RMK-NYK
    Originally Posted by donchris
    Hine site is 20/20. We can look back at evey trade in the history of this league and say "well they could have done this or they could have done that." But that kind of thinking and talk is pointless. If you really think that a new GM could do something more with our current roster of talent or lack there of, your sadly mistaken. Thomas brought in Eddie Curry and drafted Channing Frye and Nate the so called Great Robinson. Another GM may not have drafted the same way. Think back to the draft. No one really thought Frye would do much. He was labled as a "soft Marcus Camby." But our GM saw through that. All of this is in addition to Thomas walking in to a disaster! That's what our last GM left us. I find it funny that every one is so quick to point fingers but ether don't know or don't acknowledge the full history. Now you say the owner should go! Isiah has taken on the task of rebuilding one of the leagues worst and over paid teams. This requires bringing in talent (which costs more money) and at the same time try to reduce the team salary. It's a double edge sword, seemingly a no win situation for the GM and or coach, or point guard because @sswholes like you guys and the NY Post smell blood in the water. Every thing I've mentioned are stepping stones that Thomas has created.

    You say drafting is a scout issue but Isiah did the drafting, brought in Larry Brown and Eddie Curry as I stated before, and as a result the Knicks are more competitive and defesive minded team. What bad move did he make? He traded Thomas for Richardson, who's not doing much right now but is still young. In what way are we worse off than last year? If we are better off than Thomas is clearly not the problem.

    You guys thing tading is easy. I don't know if your expecting Tmac or what. Rose is no Tmac no question about that. But he's already done more in one game than Tony Davis typically does in three. I think it was a good trade.
    It's NOT hindsight when everyone questions your moves right from the start. And why don't you lay off the curse words there buddy? Those of us that don't like Isiah are not wearing the rose colored glasses and not drinking the kool-aid that you seem to be gulping down. I'm not decrying any of Isiah's drafting...but he's made so many blunders with trades and free agent signings it's not even funny. And are you seriously going to tell me that bringing Eddy Curry here made this team a competitive and "defensive minded team?" Have you seen their record and the way these guys defend??? If they were indeed defense minded, don't you think LB would have gotten something otu of that? These players can't defend worth crap, and Eddy Curry came to the Knicks with a rep of being an awful rebounder and a below avg shot blocker...actually this team has no shot blocker at the moment.

    And you're assessment of Channing Frye, pre draft is way off. He was definitely a lottery pick coming in. Yes, he did have the knock of being a "soft Marcus Camby" type, but he was still going in the lottery no doubt, and many publications had predicted this. Isiah drafted him, but don't make it sound like he was a projected 2nd rounder or something.

    As far as bringing in talent...yeah you need money to do that, but instead Isiah used lots of money to bring in crap talent. This guy has no track record of success off the court, and so far he's tried rebuilding this team twice. He's shown no semblance of having a consistent plan, and instead he's shown he's impatient and has a case of roster ADD and an itchy trigger finger. Seriously, I'm sure any GM around the league, with a mediocre and vastly overpaid player on their team, calls the Knicks first cause they know they don't need to do much to entice Isiah to take it.

    All I'll say is if Isiah can pull of this rumored deal to get K-Mart and Watson, without giving up Frye, I'll give him his props. Given his track record though, I can see us giving up a lot and ending up with Bryan Russel instead.
    Recap. Who's everyone? The NY Post, NY times or NY fans who seem to complain about every thing. And what's this nonsence about rose colored glasses? You can't possibly see any thing with your head so far up your @$$! If you don't think that the Knicks are not more competitive than we were last year then your simply not watching the games. On paper it was brilliant to bring in Curry and Richardson. (On Paper) No one could tell that Richarson would do next to nothing and Curry would have an inconsistant season. A GM is not a fortune teller. As far as Thomas's ability to bring in talent. Were's the money? Ask Allan Houston.
    The fact that you're going to call a team that has close to the worst record in the league, a competitive team, is just hillarious. You're seriously out of your mind

  3. #33
    Next season, keep waiting donchris's Avatar
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    Read my words, more competitive than LAST YEAR!!!

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    i dont know if anybody remembers scott layden?! that man not only stiffed us with allan houstons contract, but we also had to pay "lj" two extra years to further us into the cap. he drafted fred weiss who vinsanity embarassed out of the nba. he traded camby for who? mcdyess? mcwhack more like it. i know that later led us to steph, but maybe we'd be in another direction. think about this, the year we drafted weis, we couldve had artest. hate him or love him, better to play with him than against him right?

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    ^ continued.. what about drafting nene when we couldve drafted amare two picks later? i think that laydens more to blame for this than thomas is. he took the job which was his to bring life to. hey who was happy when we got steph? thomas wanted to bring offense to our team with jamal, jalen and q. defense with davis ( now gone) malik. exciting rookies with nate, lee and frye. hey what happened to ariza, james, penny and woods? we have no fixed line up and its like coach hasnt given roles. brown the bust?

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    wasnt he brought in to turn the team around? theres so much respect for brown that we fail to criticize him. i think that if we set our rotation to steph, crawford, rose, frye, and curry we'll win more games. set a bench rotation coach brown!

  7. #37
    Next season, keep waiting donchris's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by trees
    i dont know if anybody remembers scott layden?! that man not only stiffed us with allan houstons contract, but we also had to pay "lj" two extra years to further us into the cap. he drafted fred weiss who vinsanity embarassed out of the nba. he traded camby for who? mcdyess? mcwhack more like it. i know that later led us to steph, but maybe we'd be in another direction. think about this, the year we drafted weis, we couldve had artest. hate him or love him, better to play with him than against him right?
    AMEN BROTHER!!! People should think about the history of this mess before calling for GMs point guards and coaches to quit!

  8. #38
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    Originally Posted by trees
    i dont know if anybody remembers scott layden?! that man not only stiffed us with allan houstons contract, but we also had to pay "lj" two extra years to further us into the cap. he drafted fred weiss who vinsanity embarassed out of the nba. he traded camby for who? mcdyess? mcwhack more like it. i know that later led us to steph, but maybe we'd be in another direction. think about this, the year we drafted weis, we couldve had artest. hate him or love him, better to play with him than against him right?
    Layden was awful but he didn't draft Weiss...get it right! He was drafted by the temp person that was filling in and handling the draft in between when Grunfeld was fired and just before Layden was hired.

    I'm just baffled by how you guys think Isiah has done anything remotely resembling a good job. Do you realize that the idiot has left us with NO top 10 picks for the next two years? We're capped out so we're not getting any impact FA's anytime soon either. How do you really see this team getting much better?

    Oh btw...."Donchris"...the team (for all that money they added to the cap over the last year) is now ONE GAME better than last year. So my bad...you're right, they are so much more competitive...he did a great job getting that one game

  9. #39
    Knicks Guru hometheaterguy's Avatar
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    Laydon is the catalyst for thie Knicks decent into cap hell! Isiah has added to that problem by bringing in more long term contracts. But, I can now see a method to his madness. Unlike Laydon who was clueless and non-directional in his moves, Isiah at least has a plan. Isiah walked into a situation that basically said do your job with both hands tied behind your back. He had NO money to sign anyone and no players that anyone wanted, so he couldn't make any decent trades. In order to shake things up and get a player that can actually make a difference, he needed to take on more bad contracts. In order to make 1 move that could help this franchise, he needed to make 2 others that hurt it! He needed to get Malik Rose in order to get that draft pick. Why would he want SanAntonio's draft pick??? Tto give him something to play with, in either actually using it to draft a player or in a trade sequence. Look at the Jalen deal; he will help the Knicks a little this year with some scoring and leadership. In the off season, his expiering contract might help us in a sign and trade deal. Not to mention the #1 draft pick that we got. Now we have 2 late #1s to either use or offer in a deal. Laydon didn't do anything like that; no long term direction in his thinking or actions. The Ewing deal was the blunder of the century for this franchise!

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    Originally Posted by hometheaterguy
    Laydon is the catalyst for thie Knicks decent into cap hell! Isiah has added to that problem by bringing in more long term contracts. But, I can now see a method to his madness. Unlike Laydon who was clueless and non-directional in his moves, Isiah at least has a plan. Isiah walked into a situation that basically said do your job with both hands tied behind your back. He had NO money to sign anyone and no players that anyone wanted, so he couldn't make any decent trades. In order to shake things up and get a player that can actually make a difference, he needed to take on more bad contracts. In order to make 1 move that could help this franchise, he needed to make 2 others that hurt it! He needed to get Malik Rose in order to get that draft pick. Why would he want SanAntonio's draft pick??? Tto give him something to play with, in either actually using it to draft a player or in a trade sequence. Look at the Jalen deal; he will help the Knicks a little this year with some scoring and leadership. In the off season, his expiering contract might help us in a sign and trade deal. Not to mention the #1 draft pick that we got. Now we have 2 late #1s to either use or offer in a deal. Laydon didn't do anything like that; no long term direction in his thinking or actions. The Ewing deal was the blunder of the century for this franchise!
    What plan exactly does Isiah have? He's rebuilt this team twice now...first getting Tim Thomas, Nazr Mohammed, etc and claiming the team will be "young and athletic." Then he quickly abandoned that plan just as Mohammed was starting to show some consistent flashes, and he traded him off. Not to mention he used whatever money we did have the last two offseasons to make some horrendous signings in Baker and James. Not to mention he's had 3 coaches under his tenure...hiring Lenny Wilkins was an awful idea because it was clear the game had passed him by and we basically got nothing done in his time here.

    Now in today's daily news, we see that he's asking LB for help in setting up the roster and making more trades...this undoubtedly will be another departure from whatever plan there was coming into this season, and basically would be a THIRD rebuilding attempt. Sure Isiah has aqcuired a bunch of draft picks, but they're all late ones, and the good picks that we would have had, he's traded off. Isiah has actually made this team worse.

    At least he's trying to now get on the same page with his coach, so that's a step in the right direction. I still have no confidence in him though...at least not until I see some continuity to this roster.

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    Default Isiah, Isiah, Isiah...

    So now Isiah justifies the behavior of the Knicks by telling the Nuggets how to coach and when they should remove their players… the man needs to go sooner rather than later.

    The Isiah the Clown Show must go… he is destroying the team, turning fans away, and an embarrassment to the NY Knicks. Mr. Dolan he has you fooled but that is all… yes, Curry is coming along nicely but make enough trades and eventually one will work out.

    He is not a Knick and will never be considered a Knick by those who love the organization. It’s obvious Mr. Dolan that you were never a Knick fan before you owned the team or else you would have never hired Isiah. I wonder if you ever followed basketball at all to employ Isiah considering what he has done in his previous basketball stops. HE IS A CLOWN!!!!

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    I'm glad you all got that out of your systems. Isiah isn't coaching the same players that he has traded for. Not only has Brown destroyed all confidence and chemistry but he's shaken Marbury's game to the foundation...he doesn't even know how to turn it on anymore. If Isiah would have started coaching last year instead of cleaning up Brown's boo-boo then we would be better off this season. Simply put, Larry Brown does not know how to teach talent...Look at the Olympic team he coached...

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    Originally Posted by The 1 and Only
    I'm glad you all got that out of your systems. Isiah isn't coaching the same players that he has traded for. Not only has Brown destroyed all confidence and chemistry but he's shaken Marbury's game to the foundation...he doesn't even know how to turn it on anymore. If Isiah would have started coaching last year instead of cleaning up Brown's boo-boo then we would be better off this season. Simply put, Larry Brown does not know how to teach talent...Look at the Olympic team he coached...
    come on... brown did a ****ty job as coach last year.. ****TY-JOB, , but it's a reach to blame this year on brown.

    as to starbury... he is getting 18 odd million.. we ain't getting our moneys worth..

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    Originally Posted by donchris
    Isiah Thomas is not the problem. Thomas is credited with bringing Lary Brown to the NY so how can he be the reason for our loses. I think those that think he should go are ether extreemly young and uninformed or put too much stock in the NY Post. The Post is in the business of selling papers. Bad news is the best news for them. Also if you can think back to your champion Allan Houston and is over paid contract, you'd then know the real reason for our curse. The Houston deal was the mother of all f&*(ups. Just a brief history lesson for you guys. I dont think Thomas's job is really on the line. The Dolians know that NY is rebuilding. You guys say keep the young guys but young players notoriously do not play defence. Can't have it both ways. We do need to make trades but not for Portland *****s. Jalen Rose may be a step in the right direction although the trade will not really help our cap situation.
    Young and informed? What good trades or signing has he accomplished besides Q-Rich/Robinson for Kurt Thomas? Every signing he has done has been over priced. Every trade Isiah has done was an expiring contract for players the other team did not want a part of. It is obviously be now Isiah is the worst GM in the NBA, no one else can compete with him on that title. Isiah needs to GO, he has had enough time. I've said Isiah needed to go 2 years ago, and people like you told me "No, he needs a year or two". Well that time is over. Stop being Isiah's lawyer always coming to his defense. Isiah is embarassing the Knicks organization. Isiah keeps saying he has a plan, but what are the results? Look at our record, our capspace, and the respect we get from NBA analysis. Isiah and Dolan need to leave the Knicks organization as soon as possible, that is all I want right now.

  15. #45
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    The antonio davis for jalen rose was bad but they say larry brown pushed for the ariza and penny for franchise. I dont think isiah would had done that with the potential ariza showed the previous season (LB didnt play him much last year). Isiah hasnt raded any other young talented players but luckily we sort of made up for gettin rid of ariza with balkmen except for the fact that we took on francis's contract but u really believe LB pushed for that trade. Other then the jalen rose trade and the signing of jerome james, i dont think isiah had dun a bad job and as mentioned before, layden left him a team full of overpayed, overaged, undersized players which has turned into francis marbury, and a bunch of young talent. I'm not complaining if they win 30 to 35 games this year after only 23 last year.

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