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Thread: LARRY IS AS MUCH TO BLAME AS ISIAH

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    Isiah has done a decent job? Are you kidding me? What Isiah has done has given us something that is a borderline unfixable mess. If we stuck to one philosophy on re-building the team then we should have stuck to it. but that is where Isiah fell apart the most.
    He starts making good moves for excellent rookies- Frye, Nate, Lee. So u think wow he's rebuilding for the future and we're going to be a young team right? WRONG- He subsequently gives up our first round
    draft pick, which looks like its going to be the number one pick outright, for Curry. He then stockpiles us with Vets and/or hefty contracts- Q Woods,Q Rich, Rose, Francis the biggest example of all. He's now stockpiled us a disjointed ballclub, undersized, one dimensional some can shoot can't play defence take your pick.
    He gets his man Larry Brown, the biggest name and throws him this team of type of players that can't work with his one style of play.
    IN regards to Larry we shouldn't dismiss his record as a fluke or call him a bad coach- he has had success wth types of players he likes and can mould into his unit. But just like anything in life, u can only make do with what tools are at your disposal. Isiah gave him a disjointed roster with players that are completley different from his one philosophy. Now he has a ton of guards- Nate, Steph, Fran, Rich, Jamal, Q. And he is mixing and matching to find something that works for him and his style of play which explains the 19billion lineup changes.
    Has Larry done a bad job? of course he has- his running to the media to chastize players is dumb. And the dizzying lineup changes can cause nothing but division instead of a cohesive unit. But he is being asked to work with guys that doesn't fit into his strategy and that blame falls on Isiah. Isiah will attempt to make amends next year by doing whatever Larry wants- but judging by Francis deal which Larry campaigned for, which has given us nothing but further cap hell and another PG- i absoloutely am at a loss as to what strategy these guys have for us...

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    Originally Posted by Marburyfan_UK
    Isiah has done a decent job? Are you kidding me? What Isiah has done has given us something that is a borderline unfixable mess. If we stuck to one philosophy on re-building the team then we should have stuck to it. but that is where Isiah fell apart the most.
    He starts making good moves for excellent rookies- Frye, Nate, Lee. So u think wow he's rebuilding for the future and we're going to be a young team right? WRONG- He subsequently gives up our first round
    draft pick, which looks like its going to be the number one pick outright, for Curry. He then stockpiles us with Vets and/or hefty contracts- Q Woods,Q Rich, Rose, Francis the biggest example of all. He's now stockpiled us a disjointed ballclub, undersized, one dimensional some can shoot can't play defence take your pick.
    He gets his man Larry Brown, the biggest name and throws him this team of type of players that can't work with his one style of play.
    IN regards to Larry we shouldn't dismiss his record as a fluke or call him a bad coach- he has had success wth types of players he likes and can mould into his unit. But just like anything in life, u can only make do with what tools are at your disposal. Isiah gave him a disjointed roster with players that are completley different from his one philosophy. Now he has a ton of guards- Nate, Steph, Fran, Rich, Jamal, Q. And he is mixing and matching to find something that works for him and his style of play which explains the 19billion lineup changes.
    Has Larry done a bad job? of course he has- his running to the media to chastize players is dumb. And the dizzying lineup changes can cause nothing but division instead of a cohesive unit. But he is being asked to work with guys that doesn't fit into his strategy and that blame falls on Isiah. Isiah will attempt to make amends next year by doing whatever Larry wants- but judging by Francis deal which Larry campaigned for, which has given us nothing but further cap hell and another PG- i absoloutely am at a loss as to what strategy these guys have for us...
    Riley and Vangundy used the media to jar their players, so I don't take issue with it when Brown does it. Also, you are right about Isiah! He has not been consistent on anything. He is all over the place with his roster moves and he has made the NY knicks a dumping ground for other teams to use to dispose of over priced underachievers. Brown is a great coach but has some accountability here. I think Isiah should have had a game plan before he made the off season moves he made. The Brown to NY was talked about for a long time and if Isiah thought there was even a remote chance of Brown coming here, he should have waited before making the QR trade! Right now, KT (who I am NOT a fan off and was an advocate for trading him, just not for another guard) would have made a big difference on this team. If we had him in the mix with Curry, Frye and occasionally Lee, we would have had a much better inside presence. Also, he didi a horrible job when trading away an uprotected pick. Chicago didn't want him and he could have played the waiting game with Paxson. Isiah caved it but the ONLY upside to this is; there is no clear cut 1-5 yet so this is a weak draft for big men (in my opinion).

  3. #33
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    Originally Posted by RMK-NYK
    First off I dont even know Taylorjohn but I'm sure you know Isiah really well.

    Either that or you and Dolan are drinking the same Koolaid now. By the end of this year Isiah will have been here for 2.5 seasons. In that time he's gone thru 4 coaches, overhauled the roster numerous times, made multiple trades, piled on payroll, put this team in cap hell till 2009, and traded away our potential future by giving away a potential top 5 pick in this draft, and given the bulls a chance to take our pick the following year if they want it. And you're telling me after all that, that the rebuilding JUST BEGAN NOW??? So what has he been doing for all this time?? And if you're gonna tell me he was waiting for Brown, then why'd he construct a roster that makes Brown wanna puke?? You and Dolan are both out of your minds.

    Oh and BTW...you don't rebuild by trading away two yrs worth of possibly prime draft choices, and adding on payroll to the point where you'll never sign anyone. That's how you build a disaster...not a team.
    This is a year AGO, and its still right. Who ever was debating with this guy, lost.

    Originally Posted by taylorjohna
    LOL I still don't see what point you are making about any of it but I think RMK has a point... Are you Isiah's son? LMAO
    I see people have been calling Isiahsexuals before I even registered here.

    Originally Posted by taylorjohna
    I have to agree with RMK all of the way. His points are valid and supported by the facts of the situation. Don, you are just talking and there is no more of a point to what you are saying than there is to what Isiah is doing.

    There has to be a plan and when you say that you are convinced that LB is the right coach for this team I have to wonder what in the hell you are talking about. I agree that Larry Brown is a great coach and I love the Knicks. When you say right coach for "this team" though, what are you talking about? Because what team are you referring to? There are at least four different teams here... 1. The Players Team (they seem to be suited for a specific type of play... running and beating their individual man off of the dribble, capable ball handlers that can pass but look to shoot first... Marbury, Francis, Crawford, Jalen and Nate). 2. The Coach's Team (LB's idea of playing smart basketball with few turnovers, strong defense and unsellfish play). 3. The GM's Team (the team that Isiah thinks is like the one he and Joe Dumars or Walt Clyde and Earl the Pearl played for)... and then there is 4. The Real Team (the one that has a mixture of so many odd parts that it just doesn't fit any of the above team concepts. The one that cannot gel, is inexperienced and selfish, that does not play D and has no confidence.

    The point is that the GM is responsible for this because it is HIS responsibility to have sight of the big picture and to put all of the pieces together. Honestly, I like Larry... I even like Isiah because I think he believes he can do something... and I like most of our players. BUT.... it makes no differrence in the grand scheme of things if they are all operating in different realities. So when you say that LB is the right coach for this team it depends upon what you mean. LB is the perfect coach for his own version of a team but that is not what we have. There are a ton of coaches that could get more from this team of players right now than LB... but that does not matter if it does not end with a championship somewhere down the line. Our team has no identity and we will not win until it does. The question is... Can we get a single vision of "team" with the current Owner, GM, Coach and Group of Players??? It does not matter if you like all of those people, the answer is no because they all have different ideas of what the "team" is.

    Where did posters like this go? Did the Isiahsexuals run them out of town?

    Originally Posted by Pedro De Pacas
    Sorry, but this is only Isiahs fault, because he can't build a run&gun-team and then he hires a coach who is known for his whole career to coach a totaly different style.
    He hired the coach, like he hired every player on our roster: just because of their names.

    Even dudes from Germany are throwing down the hammer on Isiah.

    Originally Posted by hometheaterguy
    You guys are killing me!!!! Last year we had coaches that opened up the floor and had them running and gunning and they still lost!! There is no concept of reality here!! Even if you "run and gun" you still need to play some form of defense. Even if Brown said, hell with it and let them run up and down; we still couldn't out score most teams in this league!! The problem is the players Isiah has assembled do not make up a cohesive team. You know, that is like asking Phil Jackson to come here and coach and ask him NOT to run the triangle offense, the very format that has brought him to success. Flip Saunders couldn’t not have squeezed any more life out of this team than Brown has been able to, this team STINKS!!! Most of the players are selfish and undersized, they don’t try to stop anyone they just care about getting themselves off and that is it. The Spurs, Pistons and any other NBA champs play a TEAM concept, not 5 individuals trying to best themselves every night. Isiah stinks when it comes to assembling a TEAM!!!
    Homer stays consistant.

    Originally Posted by taylorjohna
    LOL Isiah has done a superb job? WOW!!! The job of the GM is to bring all of the pieces together and that has not happened. If you are right about Larry being a bad coach then you STILL have to blame Isiah because he hired him. The players, the coach, and the big picture all lay squarely on the shoulders of the GM (any GM) in terms of responsibility.

    I am not defending Brown because I am not happy with his current approach (we may be damned but we are going to play my way no matter if we have the players to do it or not) because you coach what you have in front of you... you play the cards you are dealt, it is a fundamental fact.

    The players are failing too, some more than others but I am absolutely tired of hearing about getting more from Curry. In today's Post, LB says "I've said this from Day One, you got to get guys who are defensive-minded, have a high basketball IQ, play unselfishly and play hard and try to rebound the ball." Curry is none of those things. I am as amazed with Curry's low post game as anyone but he does not box out, is lazy, does not play D, does not rebound, is not smart and nullifies his only strength (low post game) by getting moronic fouls and spending all of his time on the bench. I thought that we did good getting Curry (obviously not at the expense of one of the top few picks in the draft) and recognize his potential but the bottom line is that he will never live up to it. You do not suddenly learn how to rebound, how to hustle or how to play defense... it does not happen.

    So what do we do... what do we hope for? We hope that we get some players in here that buy into Larry's system or we lose Larry and find someone that can get the most out of the players that we do have... but one of those things has to give first.

    For the rest of this season... put some guys out there on the floor that are willing to leave it all out there. It amazes me that Curry is getting touted so highly and that Q is an afterthought because there are times it seems that Q is the only guy on the floor playing and I am not even a fan of his... but he has earned my respect, watch his defense when his man does not have the ball. Put Jalen on the floor at PG, Woods at SG, Q at SF, Lee at PF and Frye at C... bring Lee, Malik and Nate off of the bench and we would not win any games but we would not be embarrassed by lack of effort, whiining, crying or soft-play. At least those guys would leave it on the floor each night.
    Good points.

    Originally Posted by RMK-NYK
    Are you serious? Isiah has done a "decent" job?? Tell me in all of Isiah's time here, what has he done to tell you that he has the slighest clue about what he's doing? He keeps talking about a plan....what plan? I can count at least 3 changes in direction he's tried since getting here, and in this season alone he's changed directons at least twice....what kind of decent job is that? If you have a plan in place, you see it through and not make dumb moves out of desperation. From the start this man was unqualified for this job and he's done nothing but show that.

    The knicks were capped out when Isiah got here, and now he's taken that and made it such that this team will have caproom no earlier than 2009 or so. He's traded away next yr's potential top 5 pick (what moron makes that pick unprotected??) and given the Bulls the option to flip flop picks the year after (again...what moron does this?). Eddy Curry has potential, but is he worth two yrs worth of good picks?? No way!

    This past offseason he traded away Kurt Thomas for an injured and ineffective QRich. Last season he traded away Nazr Mohammed, only weeks after he was boasting about how great Nazr is and how he's coming into his own and how the team was starting to become the 'young and athletic' team Isiah invisioned. I guess Isiah figured he'd help the Spurs out by giving them a key piece for their title run...I mean the guy seems to be so good at helping the rest of the leage. And in return we get Malik Rose who absolutely is useless on a team like this (not exactly 'young and atheltic' either). Let's not even bring up the signing of Crawford (overrated) and Jerome James (grossly overrated).

    As far as poor performance and it's correlation to management....it's management's JOB to get guys that can perform...not keep adding on guys that don't. Do you think it's a coincidence that this team sucks and none of the guys are performing?

    We need a new GM with a clue to come in here and implement an actual plan and direction for this team. Who are they going to hire? Well Bryan Colangelo would have been a start but he's gone. But in general I doubt there is anyone as dumb as Isiah out ther so anyone should be an improvement.
    Originally Posted by RMK-NYK
    Are you Isiah's brother or PR man or something?? Do you know what GM's job is? His job is to implement a short and long term plan, put together a team that fits that plan, and hire a coach that buys into it all. Isiah has shown NONE of this. Can you please tell me how Jalen Rose and Steve Francis fit into this? And you totally miss my point on Curry....even before this season that dude was no where near worth an unprotected lotter pick! I can't even remember a team being so dumb as to do that in any trade previously. And not even next year's pick, but the year after that, the Bulls can swap with us if we have a higher pick! Are you going to tell me Eddy Curry is worth that?! I seriously doubt we even had that much competition for him, especially given his heart condition. It's not getting him that I have a problem with, it's the fact that we probably gave up 5 times more than we had to. I guess Isiah wanted to add the Bulls to his resume of rebuilding other teams. People want to also defend the Jerome James move because he would have been our center had we not gotten Curry...again that shows there is no plan in place, and it shows how reckless Isiah is with his decisions. Not to mention the fact that JAMES SUCKS! Even if we'd never gotten Curry, I'm positive James would still be riding the pine behind Jackie Butler. He was never worth the money we signed him with.

    As far as players not knowing each other...hmm...I wonder why that is? Isn't it a GM's job to put together a team of players that can potentially play together and then give them a chance to do so? Isiah has turned over the roster so many times since he came here that it's no wonder why the players never know each other!! I don't think the idiot realizes that team chemistry is as important as talent.

    As for this season and expectations...yeah coming in a lot of people had higher expectations due to the coach...and yeah he hasn't done a good job, nor have the players. However....do you think adding two more ballhogs (on a team that already has enough shoot first pass later players) really made sense? You haven't made one valid point to back up your hollow statement that Isiah is doing a decent job.
    Poor donchris.



    Originally Posted by RMK-NYK
    So you let Isiah repair a situation he caused? (um...no thanks) I thought you said Isiah is doing a decent job and if that's the case then there can't really be anything to repair then right? BTW that website doesn't work. Anyways I'm done arguing this with you because clearly you work for Isiah so it's pointless.
    LMAO!!!...wow, awesome post.


    Damn, what happend to post like these? Good read.
    Last edited by metrocard; Apr 01, 2007 at 12:56.

  4. #34
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    Originally Posted by Marburyfan_UK
    Isiah has done a decent job? Are you kidding me? What Isiah has done has given us something that is a borderline unfixable mess. If we stuck to one philosophy on re-building the team then we should have stuck to it. but that is where Isiah fell apart the most.
    He starts making good moves for excellent rookies- Frye, Nate, Lee. So u think wow he's rebuilding for the future and we're going to be a young team right? WRONG- He subsequently gives up our first round
    draft pick, which looks like its going to be the number one pick outright, for Curry. He then stockpiles us with Vets and/or hefty contracts- Q Woods,Q Rich, Rose, Francis the biggest example of all. He's now stockpiled us a disjointed ballclub, undersized, one dimensional some can shoot can't play defence take your pick.
    He gets his man Larry Brown, the biggest name and throws him this team of type of players that can't work with his one style of play.
    IN regards to Larry we shouldn't dismiss his record as a fluke or call him a bad coach- he has had success wth types of players he likes and can mould into his unit. But just like anything in life, u can only make do with what tools are at your disposal. Isiah gave him a disjointed roster with players that are completley different from his one philosophy. Now he has a ton of guards- Nate, Steph, Fran, Rich, Jamal, Q. And he is mixing and matching to find something that works for him and his style of play which explains the 19billion lineup changes.
    Has Larry done a bad job? of course he has- his running to the media to chastize players is dumb. And the dizzying lineup changes can cause nothing but division instead of a cohesive unit. But he is being asked to work with guys that doesn't fit into his strategy and that blame falls on Isiah. Isiah will attempt to make amends next year by doing whatever Larry wants- but judging by Francis deal which Larry campaigned for, which has given us nothing but further cap hell and another PG- i absoloutely am at a loss as to what strategy these guys have for us...

    Forgot to quote this...

  5. #35
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    Metro you done retired alot of heads......We dont have that many people who post on here daily, I had to step it up to make up for all the people that are gone. Some of them got retired by you and others have lost interest becuase of how much this team sucks. Hopefully that new poster stays on here, bleedorangeand blue. We need more heads on this site, its always me you nyknicks126 thekidd kiyaman datruth paris lilmanbklyn and a couple others.

  6. #36
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    Originally Posted by MSGKnickz33
    Metro you done retired alot of heads......We dont have that many people who post on here daily, I had to step it up to make up for all the people that are gone. Some of them got retired by you and others have lost interest becuase of how much this team sucks. Hopefully that new poster stays on here, bleedorangeand blue. We need more heads on this site, its always me you nyknicks126 thekidd kiyaman datruth paris lilmanbklyn and a couple others.
    I gotta invite more heads to this site.

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    Cutest Guy Here Kennedy Curse's Avatar
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    lmao wow u serious they leave cuz of u!? lolz haha wow no wonder i be seing mad people in the old post that dont post nomore

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    well a person on his ban list is back...there's a reason i'm on his ban list too...I needed a good vacation...but I'm back to shutting people down...i see alot of new faces though...welcome to the site...

    But too this dirt old thread...my reply is the same...consistency + talent= wins...we have yet to see that...

  9. #39
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    Originally Posted by thekidd13
    lmao wow u serious they leave cuz of u!? lolz haha wow no wonder i be seing mad people in the old post that dont post nomore
    Who would dumb enough to come back?

    They never had anything to add to this site when they were here as Isiahsexuals, what can do they now? I quoted this thread to show the valid predictions posters here made. If I was to quote other Isiahsexuals you would be laughing your ass off seeing how farfetched their predictions were.


    Heres an example

    Originally Posted by The 1 and Only
    I agree...if our marbury and francis backcourt plays up to its potential trust me peops they will be better than billups and hamilton easily...now only if the wins follow that notion will be unquestionable. Starbury when playing his best is better than billups and francis playing at his best is better than rip...



    Its just reality and a big difference between the following two



    Knick fans
    Isiahsexuals.


    Most Isiahsexuals aren't from NYC, take notice.
    Last edited by metrocard; Dec 10, 2007 at 07:25.

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