I'm liking what your thinking. Let's not forget.... Artest wants to come to NY....
This may sound ridiculous, but KG may help our team without putting on a Knicks uniform. Because KG is approaching 30 and wants to contend for a title, Minnesota is pressed to accomodate Kg with pieces to make a championship run. That's where the Knicks come in. If KG is as interested in Marbury as it was printed in the NY papers, then we could actually rebuild. Check this out...
1) There is no way we go into next season with Brown Marbury and Thomas ALL associated with the Knicks. One of them if not all have to go.
But if we trade Marbury, which is the only way we could actually rebuild, Minnesota is probably the only team that would take him AND give up their lottery pick in the process. I would give up Marbury for a pick and a throw in player to make the salaries match.
2) Now if this works, we would have 3 first round picks, two expiring contracts (Taylor and J Rose) withAllan Houston and Shandon Anderson coming off the books(Please correct me if I'm wrong)
3) The deal would be lopsided but we would have the projected 9th pick in the draft, plus two others. If we keep Isiah or get a better proven GM, we could do something good with those picks. Minnesota SHOULD do the deal cause they would have Davis and Marbury in the backcourt to go along with Garnet. If they want size, I'd throw in Butler to sweeten the deal, maybe we could unload Q if they give us somebody else we could use.
4) I would then use the midlevel exception to sign somebody like Mike James and put Francis on the trade block, James is a really good defender and can score. We would then need an athletic 2 guard that can defend.
I would package either Taylor or Rose with a pick for a solid two way player if one is available at the right price. Maybe we could get Al Harrington.
5) Lastly, we need to develop Curry Frye and Hopefully even James...
Get Frye to gain 10 to 15 pounds, and Curry and James to lose 10 to 15 pounds
I know it doesn't sound like a definite plan, but maybe it could lead to something good
I'm liking what your thinking. Let's not forget.... Artest wants to come to NY....
rebuild? thats what we are doing now. we mite have the largest payroll but we are rebuilding. now if you are speaking of a get under or near the cap kind of rebuilding and getting more young players. then i dont exactly think youll be correct. as good as that sounds.. well it actually doesnt.
larry doesnt want a team full of young guys. he has even gone on record to saying "we should trade the draft picks". he doesnt want more draft picks unless its Tyrus Thomas.
not saying the marbury thing wouldnt help. but Larry has gave Isiah a list of players he wants him to pursue in the offseason. how he gets them or who they are is little known. Harrington, Claxton and James are known to be on the list tho.
Expect a deal for Harrington to happen. and (okay hoops this is for you) expect Francis of Marbury to be shipped for him. i wouldnt even be surprised to see one or both of our picks included to get their first round pick. (moving up to get Thomas).
we need a SF and thats our first priority. we have a lot of pawns its just a matter of what direction Larry wants to go in. but trading them away for picks and salary space is not what I think will be done at all
I just have 1 question, who is the "throw in" salary that will match Marbury's? The Wolves would have to give us a couple of players and that means we would probably end up (if Miini is interested) with Mark Blount and one of the quards like Hudson and even another player to match his salary.
''we need a SF and thats our first priority. we have a lot of pawns i''
i agree we need a sf (amongt other things)... but what pawns do we have??
starbury.. with 60m still owed him
francis ... with 50+ m still owed him
next year we will be able to get rid of jalen rose and his salary, but i am sure thomas will take back a similar contract but of a longer duration..
keep in mind that orlando 'gave us' francis for free... think abt that... they found a 'sucker' to take him off their hands... we gave them penny , who they cut within days, and trevor...
so orlando who one day had francis and 50m+ salary on their books, magically the next day had deleted 50m+ from their books
not a bad trade... for orlando...
the only way stevie franchise is going anywhere is if there is a bigger idiot gm in the nba then our idiot gm we employ... i hope there is one... but i dont think so..
Oh yeah, did I forget to mention FIRE LARRY BROWN! Yes I know it would not be possible to truly rebuild with Larry here. I just don't trust Brown with his impatience, he might try to influence isiah or whatver GM we have coming here to use our contracts on AI or some other high priced guard we don't need or he won't play once he discovers he doesn't play defense and likes to score.But if we keep him as coach, WE MUST FIRE ISIAH or get rid of Marbury in order to move forward. I don't believe Brown RESPECTS Thomas, he may like working with him, but Brown has more power in this organization than he has ever had before due to the fact that Isiah is on the hot seat and Dolan has proven he does not know what the hell he is doing. That's why Brown has pissed on this roster 40 something times. If I were owner, it would be a mass exodus-maybe I'd give Brown 20 games next year to show me he's serious about winning WITH the talent I surround him with. Lastly, I'd even ponder dangling Curry as trade bait, especially if Frye bulks up; just to see what is available but mostly to motivate his fatass to get in shape.
Hey hometheater guy, would you consider Eddie Griffin? Maybe they would give us Ricky Davis if we added Q-Rich or offered to flipflop with our projected 19th pick. All in all i think Minnesota is the "sucker" we need. They are the bad team with a superstar approaching 30 which has nothing to gain with a projected late lottery pick that is not enough to convince him to stay. He does not want to be part of a rebuilding process, and management will listen because he is the BIG Ticket, the guy who resurrected that franchise and puts fans in their seats. They may feel that a guy like Marbury would put them over the hump, and more importantly give KG a reason to stay. If I'm Kevin Mchale, I'd do this deal in a second. But I'm a Knicks fan putting himself in the shoes of Mchale, which means I'm biased, so, you know....
And yes, I would love Ron Artest.....This team needs attitude...toughness....Denver will have 3 power forwards next year, Nene, Martin, Evans...any one of those guys I'd put on this squad... they're coming off injuries but they are still young and all three are tough-maybe we get lucky and get a heatlthy Martin or Nene with Artest! Sorry for the pipe dream, just fantasizing!
remember that rumor that was going around the past summer about trading tim thomas for marion in order to create space to resign joe johnson? i sure wished that woulda happened. anyway, in regards to trading francis or marbury, id rather be it francis leaving. sounds like a lame excuse, but marbury has his roots here and has something to play for unlike francis. marbury has never demanded a trade and makes it apparant that he wants to stay. now, about the cap. we have several players who are in their last year, some of them we MUST get rid of, like taylor, houston, im suprised we're not still paying starks or larry johnson. another question, do we keep jalen, or use him as a penny hardaway next year?
i hope the knicks keep jalen rose even though larry brown dislikes him...i love jalens game
It's Funny, I like Eddie Griffin but he has some issues that affect his performance and consistancy. He has a lot of promise but he gets in his own way. I'm not sure how he would exist with Brown either! Artest would be a great fit with Brown but he is another head strong guy and he wouldn't exist well with Frances and/or Marbury. The problen with this team is there are to many lead players and no role players. I would like to see the Knicks go after strong fundamental players, blue collar type guys. This team is missing the bangers! Guys who like to get down and dirty not be an ESPN highlight every game. I would like to see them get Troy Murphy, I think he would be a nice addition to the front line. I wouldn't mind having Reggie Evans coming off the bench but we already have a undersize 4 in Malik so that isn't an option. I would try to revisit the Kenyon trade with Denver again. We have 3 expiring contracts that we can use as well as 2 #1 picks. We have Lee who going to be a nice plaer in years to come, not a star but a blue collar guy that teams will like to have coming off their bench. THe Knicks can't wait on all the rookies to develope with the payroll they have and the season that they will be coming off of. They need 2-3 key moves to right this ship!Originally Posted by furious lord
1) Somehow get rid of either Marbury or Frances. I think Minni would be interested if Ganrnette endorsed the move. I would take anyone back as long as I get their pick!
2) Address the 4 position. We have Frye and that is our Chip for the future but we need toughness their. Like I said earlier, I would like Troy Murphy or Martin from Denver.
3) Small Forward- This is one of the Key spots that needs to be addresses. I would love to pop in a guy like Deng or see if I could pry Joey Graham from Toronto. I like Harrington as well but I think he might clash with Marbury and/or Frances. I would like to if Thomas could draft a defensive guy for that spot as well. I have more confidence in him drafting a guy for the spot then trading for or signing someone.
Even Larry doesn't know the type of players he wants....
He wanted Jrose and Francis so Isiah went and got them - now he doesn't even play them...
Larry Brown is a joke!
The old fool needs to accomodate players strengths instead of running the knicks like a dictatorship and conforming them to play his way...
Bring in players Larry wants - please he's a ****ing *******....
Trust me Isiah could bring in Duncan, Melo, Lebron, AI, Matrix, Boozer, Amare, Odom and Wade and u know what - LB still couldn't make this team into a winner!
what pawns do we have? lets see..
two first round draft picks
three rooks going into their second year
a young center in Jackie Butler.
two expiring contracts in Taylor and Rose
two star PG's who toronto, minny and atlanta would like.
jamal crawford is another
enough for ya?
i guess u are looking at the glass as half full, and me ... half empty..Originally Posted by NYKnicks15
i thought that we are trying to build via draft picks.. so are lee,frye,robinson now pawns??
what do u think we can get for butler??? he like lee might be a serviceable role player in a couple/few years.. but has little value.
2 expiring contracts in rose and taylor... yep... but in order to trade em, u gotta take back an equal contract
2 star pg... i guess i'm watching another knick team.. i don't see any 'star' pg's.. what value does francis have?? - orlando gave him to us for 'free'... and u think this summer his value is going to skyrocket into what... duane wade or kobe...???
as to starbury i think it's a big question mark if the hawks,toronto,minny will take him... 60m is a lot of $$$ for any team . if u are the toronto gm, u have a nice young cast of future stars... would u want to add 'stabury to the mix... not if u want to keep your job... .. and again u need to match contracts... well maybe toronto will send us bosh/james and charlie v.
i just don't 0see how thomas gets us out of this mess... maybe he does have a master plan... i hope so, cause it's getting tough watching this cast of characters...
one man's opinion... and u know what they say about opinions
oop's - time to watch gilbert and co.....
how we are wrong. let me count the ways.
toronto can take Marbury and so can Atlanta WITHOUT giving us back the same amount in contracts. seeing they will be under the cap and enough to take them on. giving us back in a sign and trade say Mike James or Al Harrington.
jackie butler just got 22 and 8 with 2 blocks. role player in two-three years? right..
no i dont think theyll skyrocket into wade or kobe. but they still have large value. you think someones value drops because of this season? when Francis was up for bid at the deadline Houston, Denver, Seattle, Memphis and Minny all put bids in for him. so to say no one will want him is ridiculous. the fact that these guys can play and that a small market or star hungry team could use a crowd drawer these guys could have someone bite.
and ur right we do need to take back a contract of equal value(s) to get rid of expiring contracts. but im saying that having that option is a great asset to us. especially two large ones.
who said we are trying to build through the draft? larry will tell you different. isiah will tell you different. like i said larry said he doesnt really see anyone in the draft thats that important (beside TyrusThomas) to waste a pick on. this offseason will be about trades. trades to get us the roster Larry has wrote down and already gave to Isiah.
as i said opinions are like... so here is my two cents (and usually i get change... shows u how little my opinion is worth).. anycaseOriginally Posted by NYKnicks15
1. yes we could do a sign and trade with atlanta for harrinton , and/or toronto for james... if u were atlanta/toronto.. would u??
2. yep jackie got 22 point last nite... 'someone' must score.. and last nite jackie did.. curry had 5points, big jerome dnp. with a 22 point game , i am not ready to crown jackie the next shaq/duncan.
3. all i know is that orlando gave us francis for free... (more or less).. why would they give us him for free if there were all these other takers??.. i persume the orlando gm to be reasonably smart guy, why do we get francis if there were better offers??
4. i have to say i honestly don't know what is thomas and or browns intentions.. build via trades, or the draft (last year they stockpiled 3 1st rounder's). how can a team with the personel that the knicks have, no matter how they do not mesh, play like $hit almost every game. i mean there is no 'D'... none.. is it the coach?? i am lost for answers.. getting beat is one thing... but by halftime...