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  1. #1
    Next season, keep waiting donchris's Avatar
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    Default DOWN WITH BROWN!

    I got this article from ESPN.com Check it out n let me know what you think.

    Take it from a lifelong Knicks fan: This edition is the sorriest ever. And the reason is Larry Brown.

    Patrick Ewing
    AP Photo
    Almost makes you forget that they shipped him to Seattle.

    The last Knicks championship was 33 years ago ... 33 -- that was the number of Patrick Ewing's jersey and Cazzie Russell's jersey. That was six presidents ago. In the spring of 1973, the World Trade Center officially opened. The Watergate hearings had just begun.

    It has been a long time between sips of champagne. This year has made it seem intolerably longer.

    Before his hiring, Brown was anointed as the Socrates of the sidelines, capable of divining the inner mysteries of 12-man harmony. He said coaching the Knicks was his "dream job" and that former Knicks coach Red Holzman was once his "hero."

    No rational person expected the 2006 Knicks to play at the divine level of Holzman's 1970 and 1973 championship teams. After all, six Hall of Famers emerged from those two squads.

    But Brown signed for a price that could have paid for New York's previous 20 coaches combined, to navigate the Knicks' floundering ship in the direction of the team's golden age.

    He has not merely failed in that effort. He has failed utterly and to a degree no one could have imagined. Worse, he has done so without dignity or grace or accountability. His performance throughout this season has been petty and mean-spirited.

    Brown has employed 39 different starting lineups. No one, not even his own players, can divine his kaleidoscopic pattern of lineups and substitutions. If you can figure it out, please get in touch with me for your next assignment: to explain the sound of one-handed clapping.

    New York won 33 games last season, and talk before this season centered on how Brown probably needed to add just 10 wins to get New York into a postseason tournament that welcomes more than half the teams in the league. As it turns out, he wouldn't have needed 10. But it's a moot point -- the Knicks are on pace to finish 21-61. Did the Knicks hire Brown to subtract a dozen wins?

    What else has gone wrong?

    Well, he has dogged Stephon Marbury, his best player, running him down in the press on a regular basis. The Marbury slamming started at the 2004 Olympics in Athens and continued last August -- just a month after Brown was hired -- when he asserted that Allan Houston was New York's "best player" last year.

    Oh, really? The same Allan Houston who missed 62 games and averaged 11 points last year was better than Marbury, who played every game and posted 21 points and eight assists a night? Explain that one. Moreover, explain why you would say that aloud.

    To be sure, Marbury is an easy target. His detractors rattle off his failures in Minnesota, Phoenix and New Jersey as readily as they bring up Brown's record of improving his teams.

    Larry Brown has attained cult status as a thinking man's coach. He coached the 2004 Pistons to a title. He has made many teams better than he found them. The other side of bettering them is leaving them: He has coached nine ABA and NBA teams in 22 years.

    Stephon Marbury
    AP Photo/David Zalubowski
    Both Stephon Marbury and Larry Brown have proven to be great finger pointers.

    But his handling of Marbury and the rest of the Knicks demonstrates his willingness to scapegoat his players. It seems that Brown believes he is responsible when his teams win, but not when they lose.

    "I've made every team I ever coached better," he said. "Every one. Look, I've been coaching how many years? I never left a team in worse shape than I got it. Not one. Now think about that. Think about me and think about the guy who's talking. I never left a team in worse shape. Never asked anything of my players any different than I'm doing right now. Think about that. Think about that. So the bottom line is, I want us to rebound, defend, share the ball, play hard. That's all. If you can't do that, if that's not important enough to you, it's not on me. It's not on me."

    It's not on me. It's on Marbury, the guy who leads the team in minutes, scoring, assists and steals -- one of two players in NBA history to average 20 points and eight assists for his career. (Oscar Robertson is the other.)

    When teams play worse, it's not Brown's fault. He had very similar critiques of the Pistons when he coached in Detroit. For instance: "We have to play a lot harder, we have to be a lot more aggressive, we have to share the ball better, rebound the ball better. I think those are things that you talk about every game, though. I say this over and over again. I write on the board before every game, play hard, play unselfishly, play smart, try to defend and have fun."

    According to Brown, he wins games but doesn't lose them.

    To reinforce his points, Brown criticizes his players relentlessly, both publicly and privately.

    "Never in all my years have I seen a coach run down his best player in the press like Brown," one veteran NBA writer said.

    "I covered him for six years in Philadelphia and he did it all the time," said another, unsurprised at his antics this year.

    To get some perspective on the Knicks' disastrous season and Brown's handling of his team, I talked to the player I consider the greatest Knick of all, Walt Frazier, a longtime color commentator for Knicks games. What does Frazier think about Brown's tactic of playing canary to the media? Did Red Holzman settle scores in print?

    "Red would get in your face," Frazier said, laughing. "But not in the press."

    Bob McAdoo, now a Miami assistant coach, played for Jack Ramsay on the Buffalo Braves during 1973-76 and for Riley with two Laker title teams in 1982 and 1985. Did either of those coaches upbraid players in the press?

    "Oh no," McAdoo replied. "Everything was in-house, behind closed doors. The fans never knew the inner workings of the team."

    Why did those coaches hold their fire in the media?

    "What good could come out of that?" McAdoo added. "Why attack your top players? They are prideful and they're not going to take an attack from anyone."

    I asked Frazier more specifically about Brown's contention that Marbury is the problem.

    "Stephon is damned if he does and damned if he doesn't [according to Brown]," said Frazier. "If he scores, he's selfish. If he doesn't, he's not playing up to his potential.

    "They have to get along," Frazier said. "Marbury wants to win. He came up to me on the plane and pointed to my [1973 championship] ring and said, 'I want what you have.' Besides, the guy has skills; he can get to the basket against anyone."

    Frazier ought to know. Consider the greatest day in team history, May 8, 1970. New York played Game 7 of the NBA Finals against the Lakers -- who had Jerry West, Elgin Baylor and Wilt Chamberlain -- with Reed, their center and league MVP, badly injured. Frazier filled the void, recording 36 points, 19 assists and seven rebounds in a 113-99 victory.

    "Red always instructed us to hit the open man," Frazier said. "That night I was the open man."

    This season sullies that '69-70 season and some of the other greatest memories from Knicks history -- the 1973 championship squad and its legendary team play; the overachieving '84 Knicks, led by coach Hubie Brown and superstar Bernard King; the physical, ferocious '94 squad coached by Pat Riley; and the team of seven seasons ago, which made a surprise dash to the Finals.

    Across nearly 50 years, the coaches of the best Knicks teams -- Joe Lapchick, Red Holzman, Hubie Brown, Pat Riley, Jeff Van Gundy -- sucked every ounce of talent and effort from their troops. They didn't always win it all, but they emptied the tank in the attempt. When they lost, they lost without disgrace.

    Even when the Knicks were truly bad, the scent of those years didn't rival the unbearable stench of this one. This season is singular, dubiously singular, in turning losing into disgraceful losing. Hello, Larry.

    This says alot and confirms my thoughts on Firing Isiah as well as trading Marbury. Both are a bad idea and shouldn't happen. I know most of you dissagree but I think most of us, at least that know basketball can agree that Marbury should NOT be traded and Larry Brown has done a piss poor job of coaching this year. If we dont make it to the play offs next year we must evaluate Brown's performance.

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    Veteran Trin_Starr's Avatar
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    All I know is Dolan HATES LB's attitude.
    But for him to get rid of Brown means he has to get rid of Isiah.....unless if magically Larry's bladder starts leaking and the old hag can't walk along the sidelines anymore forcing his ass to retire
    Then Isiah pulls a Pat Riley special and coaches the team...
    We all know this is the run and gun team isiah would love to coach, plus all the players on the knicks LOVE Isiah....
    On the ankle breakers video, when steph was with PHX, they asked him who was his idol growing up and which player he molded his game after - he said Isiah.
    JC's chose 11 because of his utmost respect for Isiah
    Curry and Q are from Chi-town and u know they got to have love for Isiah....

    He needs to coach, the team will play hard for him. We will be an exciting team. Wins will come.

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    Administrator rady's Avatar
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    Default Team of Dreams

    I'd love to see Isiah Thomas coach this fantasy team HE's put together. I can use a good laugh after having been endlessly crying my balls off since he's bull-****ted his way into the organization. He may be an idiot but he's not stupid. I think having Thomas man the helm of the Titanic here would settle the score real damn quick. Maybe we can have him sell hotdogs in the stands while he's at it. Wait, don't they already have circus act booked at the Garden ??

    By the way, how is Isiah Thomas’ SEXUAL HARRASSMENT suit coming along? I expect we’ll be seeing the alleged victim in a uniform soon playing point guard signed to another one of his trademark roster management moves.

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    Next season, keep waiting donchris's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Trin_Starr
    All I know is Dolan HATES LB's attitude.
    But for him to get rid of Brown means he has to get rid of Isiah.....unless if magically Larry's bladder starts leaking and the old hag can't walk along the sidelines anymore forcing his ass to retire
    Then Isiah pulls a Pat Riley special and coaches the team...
    We all know this is the run and gun team isiah would love to coach, plus all the players on the knicks LOVE Isiah....
    On the ankle breakers video, when steph was with PHX, they asked him who was his idol growing up and which player he molded his game after - he said Isiah.
    JC's chose 11 because of his utmost respect for Isiah
    Curry and Q are from Chi-town and u know they got to have love for Isiah....

    He needs to coach, the team will play hard for him. We will be an exciting team. Wins will come.
    I have to agree with you. Brown runs this team like an old short shorts squad of the early 70's. The knicks are a run and gun team. They have to score in order to win. Brown took that away from them in an attempt to make us the Pistons. Who by the way are a much better team with out him. I dont think it is possible for any one to do a worse coaching job then Brown has this season. Isiah taking the helm is not that bad of an idea.

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    Member Allen's Avatar
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    Trinn_starr, Donchris...when did we stop being the NY knicks and become the Phoenix suns, where we can just outscore people at will, play no defense of any kind and still win?

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    Veteran Trin_Starr's Avatar
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    We stopped being the NY knicks a long time ago....this team has no identity BUT with the players we have right now, they are more suited to an uptempo game. We already play no defense, so all we have to do is outscore our opponents and we'll be the Suns of the east.

    I watch all the games and I respect Walt's knowledge of the game. When he speaks about what the knicks need to do, he is usually very right.

    1. he always says larry as the head coach needs to stick to a 9 man rotation and let players play thru their funks, get acclimatized to each other and develop an on court chemistry.

    2. The knicks have players who have athleticism, speed, quickness and the ability to score - we need to play to their strengths - something Larry doesn't do

    3. Marbury is the knicks' best player - Larry needs to incorporate his game into his coaching scheme.

    4. He has never seen a coach publicly bash players in the media like what Larry does. That's the reason the players have tuned him out. He said back his day - they kept all their turmoil behind closed doors.

    5. Curry is the knicks starting Center and is going to be for a long time - Larry needs to play him thru foul trouble during these meaningless games so that curry can learn how to play thru it.
    Walt also said larry is crazy for giving butler more PT than Curry especially in crunch time in the 4th because Curry is the future not butler...
    How else can Curry learn if he doesn't get in position to experience it?


    Even Clyde can't make any sense of Larry's madness!

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    Your Best Bet is B Ez datruth's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Trin_Starr
    We stopped being the NY knicks a long time ago....this team has no identity BUT with the players we have right now, they are more suited to an uptempo game. We already play no defense, so all we have to do is outscore our opponents and we'll be the Suns of the east.

    I watch all the games and I respect Walt's knowledge of the game. When he speaks about what the knicks need to do, he is usually very right.

    1. he always says larry as the head coach needs to stick to a 9 man rotation and let players play thru their funks, get acclimatized to each other and develop an on court chemistry.

    2. The knicks have players who have athleticism, speed, quickness and the ability to score - we need to play to their strengths - something Larry doesn't do

    3. Marbury is the knicks' best player - Larry needs to incorporate his game into his coaching scheme.

    4. He has never seen a coach publicly bash players in the media like what Larry does. That's the reason the players have tuned him out. He said back his day - they kept all their turmoil behind closed doors.

    5. Curry is the knicks starting Center and is going to be for a long time - Larry needs to play him thru foul trouble during these meaningless games so that curry can learn how to play thru it.
    Walt also said larry is crazy for giving butler more PT than Curry especially in crunch time in the 4th because Curry is the future not butler...
    How else can Curry learn if he doesn't get in position to experience it?


    Even Clyde can't make any sense of Larry's madness!
    thanx for writing that cuz i was planning to write that but didnt feel like doing dat, is about time so of ya came on my side and noticed that larry brown is not the right coach for this YOUNG TEAM, larry is good wit veteran teams

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    Next season, keep waiting donchris's Avatar
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    Humm! I thought Larry was going to be good for the team, but it turns out that I was wrong. I'm not saying that we are the Suns but they play well because they can score. Sure we need to pick up the Defense but we're not doing any thing cause Brown is holding alot of guys back. Speaking of veteran teams, as I pointed out before, the Pistons are the #1 team in the league now. Why, because they play D and O. Our failures as a team is a direct indication of Browns failure as a coach.

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    ''2. The knicks have players who have athleticism, speed, quickness and the ability to score - we need to play to their strengths - something Larry doesn't do ''

    i too do not think brown is the right coach for the team... but if we had another coach this season, with these same players... how many additional 'w's do u think we would have ?? 5 - 10 - 20 - 30???

    if we doubled the 'w's, we would be a 500 team...

    the coach sux's... but so do most of the players

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    Default Blind eYeyieyieyie

    One can only hope that IT's Sexual Harassment suit don't end up in front of a jury in New York, a'la OJ. NY Knick fans are obviously willing to allow him to get away with murder. See kids, this is why doing mind altering drugs is bad for you!

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    Veteran Trin_Starr's Avatar
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    Grading the Eastern Conference coaches
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    Apparently, Larry Brown believed he could simply place his Hall-of-Fame butt on the bench and the Knicks would miraculously turn into an unselfish, intelligent, flexible, defense-oriented team. After all, severing the lines of communication with his players yet relentlessly criticizing them in the media was good enough to get him enshrined in Springfield. So were his phony mea culpas publicly delivered after embarrassing losses. Plus his incessant nagging, as well as his insistence that a coach isn't responsible for motivating his players. Too bad for all concerned that the Knicks' first season under LB didn't work out that way.

    And if Brown is now claiming that he loves his "young kids," then why didn't he play them on a more regular basis when the Knicks' season was still alive?

    In the ruthless world of professional sports, an individual's reputation must be validated every time the lights are switched on. Unfortunately, Brown has performed more like a rookie coach than a certified immortal.

    Grade: F-

    And I thought an F was the lowest grade u could get!!! lol

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    i agree with you guys. larry brown is making millions of $$$ for doing nothing at all. donchris is right. brown is quick to take credit for a team doing well, and the 1st to point the finger @ the players on his team when theyre losing (even the '04 olypmic team which had 12 of the best players in the league).

    i do agree the team itself didnt play much defense @ all. and yes we led the league in turnovers. it is hard to win games like that. but then again with the way he changed lineups its next to impossible for a team to get used to each other on the floor. so i cant blaim larry 100% for whats going on now becuase the team hasnt showed any heart. but then again its hard to play confident when your overpaid coach is running to the media after every game pointing the finger @ one of his players. and it drives me crazy how the media doesnt see this. thats why every article is agreeing with brown and down talking players like steph , nate, curry, or even francis. its bull.

    all i know is i got floor seats tonight to see 'em play the bucks and u can bet ur ass ill be screamin @ larry brown and letting him know just cause the media sides with him doesnt mean the people of ny agree with him. herb williams did a better job last season with a lot lesss talent.

    it takes LB over half way through the season to realize jamal crawford is a great player. do some f*ckin research b4 u start coachin a team. crawford was 2nd best last year after marbury. open ur eyes larry... either mesh the great amount of talent you got or get the hell outta ny.

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    What the Knicks lack are Chemistry and Character. Those are two characteristics that Isiah Thomas lacks as a GM which translates into what we see on the court. You can't bury your head in stats and throw money at the wrong people.

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    Next season, keep waiting donchris's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by jffga
    What the Knicks lack are Chemistry and Character. Those are two characteristics that Isiah Thomas lacks as a GM which translates into what we see on the court. You can't bury your head in stats and throw money at the wrong people.
    I know i'm in the minority on the Thomas subject but I have to disagree with you on this one. We're talking about a guy that inherited a hell of a mess. I'm not saying he's squeeky clean, but I am saying that NY was kicking out more money for players before Thomas took the helm. If you look at what he's doing you can see that he is building for the furture. Not a one or two year fix as was stated by every one before the season. The problem in NY is that New Yorkers want wins yesterday. It ant going to happen that way. Every one raves over Frye and Robinson, well, who got them here? A bad coach is just that, a bad coach. It has no connection what so ever on the GM's performance. But that's just my opinion. The GM picks the players. A good coach can coach players even if they are not his type of players. The biggest mistake is trying to turn Marbury in to Steve Nash. Steph is not that type of PG. That's a coaching error not a GM mistake. With less talent Herb did a better job then Brown did, and that same team was formed by Thomas. So why should Thomas be fired?

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