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Thread: Ben Wallace leaving Pistons to sign with Bulls

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    Knicks Guru hometheaterguy's Avatar
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    Default Ben Wallace leaving Pistons to sign with Bulls

    According to ESPN:
    While the offer was first thought to be a four-year, $52 million deal, a source close to the negotiations told ESPN.com that the deal is actually for four years and $60 million, with a starting salary of nearly $14 million a year.

    Now, for everyone who told me I was nuts when I suggested the Knicks offer Frye in a sign and trade.... Also, this signing is all made in part to Isiah Thomas! Maybe now he can make a trade for Tyson Chandler and really help the bulls to maybe land LeBron as well!

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    Default Oh, so what?

    Congratulations to the Bulls. Much as I like Ben Wallace, I like Channing Frye’s youth better. We cannot afford to trade youth for age. How many times must we get burn and stuck with aging players before we learn that youth will always play out well in the end? Frye is the future of this franchise, Wallace can give us a couple of years of solid play, before he starts to get torched by guys like Channing Frye! I’d like Frye to be with us when that happens!!

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    Knicks Guru hometheaterguy's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Finesse
    Congratulations to the Bulls. Much as I like Ben Wallace, I like Channing Frye’s youth better. We cannot afford to trade youth for age. How many times must we get burn and stuck with aging players before we learn that youth will always play out well in the end? Frye is the future of this franchise, Wallace can give us a couple of years of solid play, before he starts to get torched by guys like Channing Frye! I’d like Frye to be with us when that happens!!
    I agree partially. The Knicks need to win now, so Wallace would have been a critical piece for that. If you then gave up Crawford and JJ or Malik for K-mart, you could have had one of the top defensive front lines in the NBA. If Frye did pan out, you could try to sign hin in 4-5 years when the Knicks would be under the cap. You know, we slam Isiah for his moves, how about Dumars! He let Wallace walk for nothing! What a poor job, you got to at least get a sign and trade out of it. I know Isiah would have gave up Frye or Curry for Wallace (not both) and at least Dumars would of had a young talent for his troubles.
    Last edited by hometheaterguy; Jul 04, 2006 at 15:18.

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    El Cacique portega1968's Avatar
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    Frye is good, but his post up game and defense are areas I seriously believe he will never be able to develop. I believe his value will start to decline before his rookie deal expires.

    That's why I believe we should deal him now for a KG or Wallace.

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    Knicks Guru hometheaterguy's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by portega1968
    Frye is good, but his post up game and defense are areas I seriously believe he will never be able to develop. I believe his value will start to decline before his rookie deal expires.

    That's why I believe we should deal him now for a KG or Wallace.
    Portega, I am with you. Wallace in not an optin now, but KG is worth a phone call! But, I am about to shock you... I don't think KG would fit in with this current roster! Marbury, frances, richardson, curry and kg all on the court at the same time? The Knicks would need the NBA to change the rules and allow 3 or 4 basketballs to be used at the same time to satisy those guys! If the Knicks explore KG and, of course, the wolves are interested as well, the Knicks need to make a few more roster changes for KG to work. They simply would have too many players that want to dominate the ball. Curry and KG could be a great combo and you could have a long range threat like richardson or crawford to keep the D honest. But you would need a pure pg and another defensive minded forward to be on the floor at the same time. Ruben Patterson would fit in nicely, at the 3 since he rebounds and plays D. He is not a player that needs to have the ball in his hands at all times. You would need to get rid of either Frances or Marbury. Which ever player stays would be good to bring off the bench to dominate the bench players of the opposing team. They would bring a change of pace and an up tempo feel when they substitute in. While I feel KG is over paid as well, he is proven and he can be one of the most dominate players at times. In reality, I think the Wolves will wait until the trade deadline to make a decision on KG.

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    Next season, keep waiting donchris's Avatar
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    Angry

    We are screwed! The Bulls may go after Garnett next. This could be a real problem for the Knicks. And now I read that AL Harrington may go to the Pacers. Isiah must out bid the Pacers and stick it to Bird once more.

    GET AL HARRINGTON

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    Originally Posted by donchris
    We are screwed! The Bulls may go after Garnett next. This could be a real problem for the Knicks. And now I read that AL Harrington may go to the Pacers. Isiah must out bid the Pacers and stick it to Bird once more.

    GET AL HARRINGTON
    You know, over paying for a player is not the answer either, I think us Knicks fans are more than schooled at that line of thinking. If Indiana gets Al, there is nothing we can do about it. We need to prevent ourselves from getting off track and stayed focused on what can help us. Sure Harrington can, but not at a huge bloated contract that exceeds his worth by 5-7 million a year! He is not worth it! Also, we would need to do a sign and trade and Atlanta will insist on Frye, and Harrington isn't worth that either! Isiah needs to stay on track and get the few pieces he needs to solitify this roster. We can get K-mart for an expiring contract and Crawford. We do not have to give up our young rookies. Crawford is expendable when you have Marbury, Frances and Richardson on the roster. I like Crawford but I like a defensive minded big man more, especially one that can impose his will on people!

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    Default Don't sleep on Channing Frye

    The Knicks always need to win now-that’s the problem! ‘Win now’ in the East means making the playoffs with 38 wins, and shocking some people! We can’t compete (cap-wise) with the Bulls, so if they get KG, more power to them. I’m not worried about the Bulls, I’m worried about the Knicks.
    I disagree about Frye’s game. I think it will take off in a big way! His post up game-maybe not so much. But his defense? I think it will not only get better, it’ll get better than that! And what he’ll lack in a post up game he’ll more than make up for in his perimeter game.
    I like KG, but not enough to revamp the roster to accommodate him. Besides, after years of not having any help, I think he’d relish the chance to play with the guns we have! I would give up Frye for him, but not give up Frye for Wallace. Chicago wouldn’t do it anyway. They didn’t acquire Wallace for trade bait. If they did, they’re stupid. Just watch what Sweetney does playing next to Wallace!
    Curry would’ve been a nice fit in Detroit’s front line, but I’d rather think of him playing next to K-Mart with the Knicks. He’ll be shamed into rebounding!
    Chicago does not have a dominate scorer, so I think KG would be in the same position in Chicago as he is in Minnesota. I don’t think Harrington would come to the Knicks, but he would use us to get a bigger contract from Indiana. That being said, the only way to get him would be to overpay him, and that is a mistake.

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    Just to clear it up.. Detroit and Isiah (as well as Philly) were talking about a sign and trade for Ben Wallace in the day prior and day of the Ben Wallace Bulls signing. They had deals in place or in mind rather and Ben rejected both.. so Isiah did try..

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    Originally Posted by Finesse
    The Knicks always need to win now-that’s the problem! ‘Win now’ in the East means making the playoffs with 38 wins, and shocking some people! We can’t compete (cap-wise) with the Bulls, so if they get KG, more power to them. I’m not worried about the Bulls, I’m worried about the Knicks.
    I disagree about Frye’s game. I think it will take off in a big way! His post up game-maybe not so much. But his defense? I think it will not only get better, it’ll get better than that! And what he’ll lack in a post up game he’ll more than make up for in his perimeter game.
    I like KG, but not enough to revamp the roster to accommodate him. Besides, after years of not having any help, I think he’d relish the chance to play with the guns we have! I would give up Frye for him, but not give up Frye for Wallace. Chicago wouldn’t do it anyway. They didn’t acquire Wallace for trade bait. If they did, they’re stupid. Just watch what Sweetney does playing next to Wallace!
    Curry would’ve been a nice fit in Detroit’s front line, but I’d rather think of him playing next to K-Mart with the Knicks. He’ll be shamed into rebounding!
    Chicago does not have a dominate scorer, so I think KG would be in the same position in Chicago as he is in Minnesota. I don’t think Harrington would come to the Knicks, but he would use us to get a bigger contract from Indiana. That being said, the only way to get him would be to overpay him, and that is a mistake.
    That's a great point about Harrington! I agree 100% and in all sports free agents use NY for leverage. I think Frye is going to be great as well, I have to admit I had a different inpression in the start of the season than I did at the end. What worries me about Frye is his position. He plays the 4 and it looks like he is going to be a finess player. He can't body up anyone and that affects him on both sides of the ball. Yes, it looks like he will have a LETHAL post up game and will rip down some rebounds along with a blocked shot or 2 a game. Still, this is all speculation and he was very inconsistant and has to still prove himself. I can't imagine Detroit turning down Frye and the expirirng contract, so I have to believe Isiah didn't offer Frye in the deal (if there was one). Every team in the NBA wants Frye now. I can understand them not wanting Curry because of his contract and stigma of the heart condition. You did reference someone that I am an advocate of... K-mart and I would love to see him with the Knicks. A Curry, K-mart and Frye rotation sounds sweet! Also, again I agree with you about KG, I think he is the best second option in the NBA! He needs a go to scorer to succeed. I do not think he is going to Chicago anyway. The Wolves will hold him for another season and try to get him a scorer, that's why they got Davis but he is not the answer. Crawford would be a nice fit for the wolves. Also, there are only a few players in the History of the NBA that, as rookies, you knew not to trade them. Frye is not that outstanding. If he can land a big man that is a superstar, the you got to part with him. But, that's is the scenario, not some high priced Veteran who is about to retire or for a 6th man type. KG is someone you would have to consider if the option was there. You can not turn that down! KG would improve the Knicks triple fold!

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    I keep hearing this "Harrington to Indy" or Harrington will use NY for leverage in contract talks with Indy.. lets get something totally clear.. Indiana does not have the tools to land Al Harrington via sign and trade. Al is going to ask for 10 million or more. and the only way Indy can send anything even close to that amount is by sending both Jamaal Tinsley & Stephen Jackson OR one of those and Jeff Foster or one of those and Jasikevicius. You think they are going to send two important assets to land one Al Harrington? They have no depth soo Al can use us all he wants but there are only a few teams that can make a decent deal or have enough assets to equal his contract amount without sending bad contracts.

    The Bulls dont have enough to land KG, especially after sending Chandler to New Orleans.

    And last but not least. Why would you want to rid us of Jamal Crawford over Steve Francis? Get Francis out of here. I'd rather have Crawford over Francis anyday (at least in the situation we are in).

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    Knicks Guru hometheaterguy's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by NYKnicks15
    I keep hearing this "Harrington to Indy" or Harrington will use NY for leverage in contract talks with Indy.. lets get something totally clear.. Indiana does not have the tools to land Al Harrington via sign and trade. Al is going to ask for 10 million or more. and the only way Indy can send anything even close to that amount is by sending both Jamaal Tinsley & Stephen Jackson OR one of those and Jeff Foster or one of those and Jasikevicius. You think they are going to send two important assets to land one Al Harrington? They have no depth soo Al can use us all he wants but there are only a few teams that can make a decent deal or have enough assets to equal his contract amount without sending bad contracts.

    The Bulls dont have enough to land KG, especially after sending Chandler to New Orleans.

    And last but not least. Why would you want to rid us of Jamal Crawford over Steve Francis? Get Francis out of here. I'd rather have Crawford over Francis anyday (at least in the situation we are in).

    For the record, I didn't say I want Crawford out of here, I just stated he is the type of player that KG needs. I agree about Harrington, I was just commenting of the fact that free agents use NY teams to up their value. Barkley did it before he went to the Suns, Greg Madux used the Yankees years back the same way, ect... Again, I agree with you about the Bulls and KG. I also do not believe for a second that they will trade him (KG). Also, rumour has it Portland is willing to part with both Randolph and Miles. That might be something the Knicks would want to explore. Might get them for Rose's contract and a young player or future picks. Seems Portland is in the mode of dumping salaries for youth and prospects.

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    Zack Randolph would be a nice fit in a Knick uniform. He is a low post monster! For that I’d be willing to give up a future pick and Jalen Rose. Hey, if they want to throw in Darius Miles, cool, he’d be an asset in on a running team. I still don’t want to give up our rookies, though.

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    Next season, keep waiting donchris's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by hometheaterguy
    You know, over paying for a player is not the answer either, I think us Knicks fans are more than schooled at that line of thinking. If Indiana gets Al, there is nothing we can do about it. We need to prevent ourselves from getting off track and stayed focused on what can help us. Sure Harrington can, but not at a huge bloated contract that exceeds his worth by 5-7 million a year! He is not worth it! Also, we would need to do a sign and trade and Atlanta will insist on Frye, and Harrington isn't worth that either! Isiah needs to stay on track and get the few pieces he needs to solitify this roster. We can get K-mart for an expiring contract and Crawford. We do not have to give up our young rookies. Crawford is expendable when you have Marbury, Frances and Richardson on the roster. I like Crawford but I like a defensive minded big man more, especially one that can impose his will on people!
    There is nothing that can get us "more" off track then picking up K. Martin. We do not necessarally have to give up our rookies for Harrington. It's all speculation. No one knows exactly what the Hawks will take for Harrington. It's not like the Pacers really can offer more than the Knicks can! K.Mart is a disaster in waiting. He's got a "bloated" contract and bum knees. He's Allen Houston all over again. Not to mention if things don't go his way he's liable to have a childish hissy fit. Besides no one can really say what Frye's potential will be and it makes more sense to develope him as a player then pick up more trash and sit him on the bench. We also have David Lee who I think is our ace in the hole, and played well at SF.

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    Yeah I understand what you mean about JC now.. And Randolph and Miles would be a cool addition BUT I dont think Isiah will do it without making them take back a contract or two. Hes reluctant to add anymore to the payroll. So much as he wont be using the MLE this season.

    He wants Al Harrington BUT Indy seems to be the leader there.. granted they can get a third team to trade. And with the courts issuing that "Atlanta can only offer FA's no more than one year deal" garbage he definitely wont be playing in Atlanta. nor will he be a Bull from what I hear. So I'd pursue him still but I dont know how itll work.

    Isiah has a few options to think over this offseason. Will he use the MLE? Who will he resign Butler or Woods? Who will he trade for? Will he add more payroll?

    My only thought is.. lets trade contracts! No more expiring ones.. not yet atleast. And regarding David Lee.. I like the kid. I really do BUT if he is what it takes to land Al Harrington or a trade to PO so we can throw a bad contract like James or Francis in there do it up. He's too slow to guard the SF and we need a more stopper able PF to back up Frye.

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