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Thread: Isiah Thomas:Mastermind or Menace?

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    Next season, keep waiting donchris's Avatar
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    Nyk Logo Isiah Thomas:Mastermind or Menace?

    We've all read the articles on Thomas and the Knicks and most of NYC thinks Thomas needs to go, but is there a method to the madness? Is it possible that so many people can be wrong? Here are the facts, you decide!

    First I recommend you check out this article with an open mind.
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    Thinking logically every one seems to agree that we should keep Frye, Lee, and Robinson. All are players that Thomas hand picked. Most people agree that trading Tim Thomas for Curry was a good move. And weather you like the guy or not NYC rejoiced when New York homegrown Marbury arrived in NY. So if we can agree that all of these moves were solid then what's the fuss about? Losses. The truth is NY Knicks fans want wins yesterday and will be outraged and wine like small children if it doesn't happen. This is what NY is good for, turning on the very same players they once chanted for. Believe it or not they did the same thing to Ewing. The press is no better. In fact they are worse. The press will have you believe that there is no endgame to what they call "Team Titanic" to sell papers. Is this a bad situation? No question. Is there an end in site and a new beginning for the Knicks? With out a doubt! In fact I'll go out on a limb and say not only is there an end in site but it is an end that Isiah Thomas has calculated and planned. Like I said, "Please read this with an open mind." Accept the possibility that the people of New York's judgment has been clouded by emotion, a torturous season and the media dogs’ endless need to sell papers.

    Here are the facts.

    Fact: The Allan Houston deal was a major set back but will becoming off the cap as of the summer of 07. (I'm not attacking the guy. Like him or hate him this was a bad deal for the team.)

    Fact: We now have 3 young players that play well and play well together. The credit must be given to Thomas for hand picking each of them.

    Fact: Picking up Jalen Rose and Steve Francis were major financial set backs.

    So now we have moved out a Hall of fame coach and a roster full of guards and guys that really don't play D. But we also will be under the cap as of 08/09 which puts us in a great position to make a run at a Libran James caliber player.

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    Superstar KnicksFan20's Avatar
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    that is exactly how i feel, i agree 100 percent, but we wont be getting lebron

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    Member Allen's Avatar
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    If Lebron James is smart he would stay as far away as he can from the NY Knicks.

    I thought the Eddy Curry trade was horrid.

    Isiah Thomas could've landed Curry without giving up an unprotected draft pick and the right to flip-flop picks at next years draft. Thats the issue I have a problem with, with the Curry trade.

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    Next season, keep waiting donchris's Avatar
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    Nyk Logo

    I hear you on the Curry trade. A lot of people feel that way. Regarding the subject of Labron, it has been reported that Nike has a clause offering Labron more cash if he playes in the New York area. That doesn't necessarally mean for the Knicks. The Nets are moving to Booklyn and there's always Philly. I beleive getting James was Thomas's plan all along.

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    Knicks Guru hometheaterguy's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by donchris
    I hear you on the Curry trade. A lot of people feel that way. Regarding the subject of Labron, it has been reported that Nike has a clause offering Labron more cash if he playes in the New York area. That doesn't necessarally mean for the Knicks. The Nets are moving to Booklyn and there's always Philly. I beleive getting James was Thomas's plan all along.
    Kobe Bryant has the same clause in his sneaker contract as well as all the super stars. It's better PR for these guys to be in the top markets. Still, Labron will make a fortune whether he plays in a big city market or not. I would love to see him in a Knicks uniform but I doubt it will happen. You know, there are all these theories on Isiah's moves: He is stock piling talent to get Garnett is one. Remember the one about Gasol? He is making all these moves to land James. I think this is all made up my the media who is trying to figure out, or should I say hopeing there is, a method to these moves. You know what I think the truth is, he makes moves to make moves. I think Isiah scambles a zero hour to make any move in hopes that it will make some sort of an impact. His ability to make personel changes is horrid! Rookies are easier to mold because they are green and can, for the most part, be molded into a system. Stars on the other hand are not willing to conform to a new system so easily. They have a style and want to stay with it. That's why it is important to pick a star that has the same or is realitvly close to the same train of thought as the system you are bringing him into. When jackson rolled into Chicago, yes he brought in his Triangle system but it wasn't something that burdened Jorden. The honus was on the point guard to run that system. Jorden really had to be Jorden. Still, MJ did listen to Phil because he was a true pro not like these babys today. When Pat came into NY, Ewing bought into him and believed and respected Riley so the match with the superstar was made and the team followed suite. Isiah just brings in guys that want to rock and roll and don't care what system is in place. The couldn't give 2 cents who is coaching and what they are trying to implement. That is a poor GM! Truth is, there is NO method to Isiah's system and if by chance the Knicks do land a big name 3-4 years from now, it will be a coincedent and a total accident. it's like a guy running in the woods in the dark and accidently falls into a gold mine.

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    Once again we cross swords. You really think that most knowledgeable Knicks fans agree with you that Marbury is a postive asset?? I doubt it. In fact I know it to be false. You make some very unreasonable assumptions. The cardinal sin is when you start believing your own bluster. Know when your full of it and when to pack in your cards.
    Marbury is a an absolute liability. When the Knicks do NOT make the playoffs this year, and play piss-poor porous defense again don't start strumming a different tune like you never committed the sin of verbal hubris.
    Own up to your folly. I expect a high turnover rate again this year, because IT is not trying to change these players street ball selfishness. Instead he is going to pander to it. By the way, he will be fired at the end of the coming season. No difference. What great coach will consider taking on the psychopath Dolan. The Knicks will be wedded to mediocre coaching talent for the next five years .

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    Next season, keep waiting donchris's Avatar
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    Media

    Ahhh hello my shadow! I notice you have a pretty good vocabulary but you seem to have some trouble reading. Allow me to assist, or if you care to scrole upward you can see that I posted "And weather you like the guy or not NYC rejoiced WHEN New York homegrown Marbury ARRIVED in NY." You see, I even capitalized the key words for you. As far as ball selfishness, no I exepct to see more team ball. Thomas has already siked the players. They all seem like they are egar to play for him. Actually I expected most of the forum members to be against this idea. You seem like a smart dude, well may be, but you failed to comment on the core point of mine. The media and it's influence on the minds of angry fans. You know, simple people like your self.

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    Superstar The 1 and Only's Avatar
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    I absolutely agree with you don...that is the typical NY fan...rejoice the initial move and bash the move when we start losing. Thankfully I'm glad I'm not one of those crazy fans. You must think rationally; marbury and francis are two of the top scoring guards in the league...if you iso these guards they will cause havoc on the defense. Curry and Frye...two young post players that can evolve under the right guidance of these two ferocious scorers. Don't get me wrong, marbury and francis can be nut cases and crazy at times but under Isiah...I don't see that as a problem. I don't think anyone will mutiny against thomas because he's like everyone's best friend yet he enforces the truth to them unlike LB who bashes his players without trying to get to know them first. Q-Rich and J Rose are two guys that are in the middle of things...they will have to give us spurts of O when things are lagging and hit open jumpers from the slashing from marbury and francis. This uptempo offense is going to drastically help us compared to last year. These guys are like expanding gas...you can't bottle up expanding gas into a system because it will explode in your face. Look for more wins, a playoff birth, and hopefully a 1st round advance...and when the knicks make the playoffs and do become a better team from last year...I don't want to hear people changing there tunes because I'mma be the first person to say I told you so...

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    I dont agree with every move Isiah has made but i think he knows what he's doing. They will win more games next year by default there's no way they lose like that again, but if the players play with confidence which they lacked last season anything is possible, the east is so weak. i don't know why so called fans are calling next season a bust give the man and his system a chance. He's in a damned if he does damned if he doesn't situation with Butler ,if he keeps him the media will say he's overpaid if he lets him go they will rant and rave about how he was the best center they had. You cant believe every thing in the papers. At first every thing i read was oh poor Larry Brown no one mentioned that fact that the man used 42 different line ups and was benching rookies for playing well(this is the same man that would pull Lebron out of the game in the Olympics when he was doing good). **** the media all they do is plant the seeds of negativity in everyone look at the draft, RELANDO BALKMAN!?!? now after summer league he's the steal of the draft its ridicules.

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    Knicks Guru hometheaterguy's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by liquid347
    I dont agree with every move Isiah has made but i think he knows what he's doing. They will win more games next year by default there's no way they lose like that again, but if the players play with confidence which they lacked last season anything is possible, the east is so weak. i don't know why so called fans are calling next season a bust give the man and his system a chance. He's in a damned if he does damned if he doesn't situation with Butler ,if he keeps him the media will say he's overpaid if he lets him go they will rant and rave about how he was the best center they had. You cant believe every thing in the papers. At first every thing i read was oh poor Larry Brown no one mentioned that fact that the man used 42 different line ups and was benching rookies for playing well(this is the same man that would pull Lebron out of the game in the Olympics when he was doing good). **** the media all they do is plant the seeds of negativity in everyone look at the draft, RELANDO BALKMAN!?!? now after summer league he's the steal of the draft its ridicules.
    Why do you say they will wim more game by default? Isiah takes over and they automatically have more wins? I also think they could very much have a similiar year. I do think they will win a few more games because yes, the east is a little weeker but the same lineup will ring out the same results in my opinion. I do believe in his drafting ability though and feel Balkman will contribute. I never doubted Isiahs draft, in fact I believe in his drafts blindly because of his track record, just like I believe that this season will be a dissapointment because of his track record as a coach. Listen, I hope he does good, first and foremost I am a Knicks fan and want to see them win so I will go into this season with hope.

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    what i mean by default is they will play better for Isiah, he will open the floor allowing them to create shots, they will run more, and it cant be that bad again.

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    Superstar The 1 and Only's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by hometheaterguy
    Why do you say they will wim more game by default? Isiah takes over and they automatically have more wins? I also think they could very much have a similiar year. I do think they will win a few more games because yes, the east is a little weeker but the same lineup will ring out the same results in my opinion. I do believe in his drafting ability though and feel Balkman will contribute. I never doubted Isiahs draft, in fact I believe in his drafts blindly because of his track record, just like I believe that this season will be a dissapointment because of his track record as a coach. Listen, I hope he does good, first and foremost I am a Knicks fan and want to see them win so I will go into this season with hope.
    Isiah will easily win more games with this team for several reasos. The players will confidence, isiah understands his roster, his system will fit better for this type of roster, the players have fire under them to prove everyone that they can win with this roster, and isiah won't bash his players in the media to a point where it looks like two rappers battling. There is no way on God's beautiful earth that we're going to have anything similar to last year...you serious? I think you're a isiah hater but I'm glad you support him unlike most haters in this forum...

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    i agree with you on many of your points os2. starbury is a liability, ask Minn, NJ, and Phx. however Isiah has been stockpiling talent since he got here. this squad looks like a great NBA live team. now that larry is gone we've eliminated the extra cook in the kitchen so to say. i believe that isiah freakin thomas knows enough about basketball. and now that these are his players (offensive athletic demons) playing his way (run n gun, two point guard. re: chuck daly) we have a clear plan of action for this team, and it will benefit greatly because of it. secondly isiah will help the chemistry tremendously. LB was a legend yeah yeah yeah. isiah is freakin isiah, how can you not listen to him as a basketball player? espcially considering the fact that most of these players were impressionable when isiah was doing it. it would be like if i got to play for hakeem, you know that dude killin it when your 10, there's never gonna be anyone better than him in your eyes. they'll listen, especially 3, they're gonna make a playoff run finishing a couple games below .500. nothing great, but it's better than worst in the league. and don't be surprised if the bulls fall on their faces.

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    Knicks Guru hometheaterguy's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by speedofdark
    i agree with you on many of your points os2. starbury is a liability, ask Minn, NJ, and Phx. however Isiah has been stockpiling talent since he got here. this squad looks like a great NBA live team. now that larry is gone we've eliminated the extra cook in the kitchen so to say. i believe that isiah freakin thomas knows enough about basketball. and now that these are his players (offensive athletic demons) playing his way (run n gun, two point guard. re: chuck daly) we have a clear plan of action for this team, and it will benefit greatly because of it. secondly isiah will help the chemistry tremendously. LB was a legend yeah yeah yeah. isiah is freakin isiah, how can you not listen to him as a basketball player? espcially considering the fact that most of these players were impressionable when isiah was doing it. it would be like if i got to play for hakeem, you know that dude killin it when your 10, there's never gonna be anyone better than him in your eyes. they'll listen, especially 3, they're gonna make a playoff run finishing a couple games below .500. nothing great, but it's better than worst in the league. and don't be surprised if the bulls fall on their faces.

    It's funny that you mentioned NBA Live, because the Knicks are like a top team on that game with the current lineup. To bad it doesn't play out like that in real life! The reality is this team is made up of way to many chiefs and not enough Indians. Everyone want to have the game flow through them and that is khaos right off the bat. The teams construction doesn't make sence; Frances AND marnbury on the floor at the same time? That's like sending a Marine squad into battle and 9 out of the 12 guys are all captains and want to run the squad. Just doesn't work!! How can you put a football team on the field with multiple QBs? That's essentially what this squad is. There needs to be a few guys that are traded away for more role players and defensive minded guys.

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    That's not the situation at all...it's obvious someone will have to decide to shoot the ball more and some one will have to pass more. Even though they will both shoot 12-14 shots a night. The point is all these players...marbury, francis, J Rose, Q-Rich, JC...they all came in as being 1 or 2 scorers but now they will all have to accept a role such as becoming a spark off the bench or hitting wide open jumpers because it's obvious marbury and francis are our best scoring options then comes JC. Roles that is the key...isiah will define these roles and the players will play them out to their ability and wins will come out of these defined roles...something LB never did....

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