Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 45

Thread: Isiah Thomas:Mastermind or Menace?

Hybrid View

  1. #1
    Next season, keep waiting donchris's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Raleigh NC
    Posts
    1,688
    Rep Power
    12

    Nyk Logo Isiah Thomas:Mastermind or Menace?

    We've all read the articles on Thomas and the Knicks and most of NYC thinks Thomas needs to go, but is there a method to the madness? Is it possible that so many people can be wrong? Here are the facts, you decide!

    First I recommend you check out this article with an open mind.
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    Thinking logically every one seems to agree that we should keep Frye, Lee, and Robinson. All are players that Thomas hand picked. Most people agree that trading Tim Thomas for Curry was a good move. And weather you like the guy or not NYC rejoiced when New York homegrown Marbury arrived in NY. So if we can agree that all of these moves were solid then what's the fuss about? Losses. The truth is NY Knicks fans want wins yesterday and will be outraged and wine like small children if it doesn't happen. This is what NY is good for, turning on the very same players they once chanted for. Believe it or not they did the same thing to Ewing. The press is no better. In fact they are worse. The press will have you believe that there is no endgame to what they call "Team Titanic" to sell papers. Is this a bad situation? No question. Is there an end in site and a new beginning for the Knicks? With out a doubt! In fact I'll go out on a limb and say not only is there an end in site but it is an end that Isiah Thomas has calculated and planned. Like I said, "Please read this with an open mind." Accept the possibility that the people of New York's judgment has been clouded by emotion, a torturous season and the media dogs’ endless need to sell papers.

    Here are the facts.

    Fact: The Allan Houston deal was a major set back but will becoming off the cap as of the summer of 07. (I'm not attacking the guy. Like him or hate him this was a bad deal for the team.)

    Fact: We now have 3 young players that play well and play well together. The credit must be given to Thomas for hand picking each of them.

    Fact: Picking up Jalen Rose and Steve Francis were major financial set backs.

    So now we have moved out a Hall of fame coach and a roster full of guards and guys that really don't play D. But we also will be under the cap as of 08/09 which puts us in a great position to make a run at a Libran James caliber player.

  2. #2
    Superstar KnicksFan20's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Nj
    Posts
    554
    Rep Power
    10

    Default

    that is exactly how i feel, i agree 100 percent, but we wont be getting lebron

  3. #3
    Member Allen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    211
    Rep Power
    9

    Default

    If Lebron James is smart he would stay as far away as he can from the NY Knicks.

    I thought the Eddy Curry trade was horrid.

    Isiah Thomas could've landed Curry without giving up an unprotected draft pick and the right to flip-flop picks at next years draft. Thats the issue I have a problem with, with the Curry trade.

  4. #4
    Next season, keep waiting donchris's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Raleigh NC
    Posts
    1,688
    Rep Power
    12

    Nyk Logo

    I hear you on the Curry trade. A lot of people feel that way. Regarding the subject of Labron, it has been reported that Nike has a clause offering Labron more cash if he playes in the New York area. That doesn't necessarally mean for the Knicks. The Nets are moving to Booklyn and there's always Philly. I beleive getting James was Thomas's plan all along.

  5. #5
    Knicks Guru hometheaterguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    1,017
    Rep Power
    11

    Default

    Originally Posted by donchris
    I hear you on the Curry trade. A lot of people feel that way. Regarding the subject of Labron, it has been reported that Nike has a clause offering Labron more cash if he playes in the New York area. That doesn't necessarally mean for the Knicks. The Nets are moving to Booklyn and there's always Philly. I beleive getting James was Thomas's plan all along.
    Kobe Bryant has the same clause in his sneaker contract as well as all the super stars. It's better PR for these guys to be in the top markets. Still, Labron will make a fortune whether he plays in a big city market or not. I would love to see him in a Knicks uniform but I doubt it will happen. You know, there are all these theories on Isiah's moves: He is stock piling talent to get Garnett is one. Remember the one about Gasol? He is making all these moves to land James. I think this is all made up my the media who is trying to figure out, or should I say hopeing there is, a method to these moves. You know what I think the truth is, he makes moves to make moves. I think Isiah scambles a zero hour to make any move in hopes that it will make some sort of an impact. His ability to make personel changes is horrid! Rookies are easier to mold because they are green and can, for the most part, be molded into a system. Stars on the other hand are not willing to conform to a new system so easily. They have a style and want to stay with it. That's why it is important to pick a star that has the same or is realitvly close to the same train of thought as the system you are bringing him into. When jackson rolled into Chicago, yes he brought in his Triangle system but it wasn't something that burdened Jorden. The honus was on the point guard to run that system. Jorden really had to be Jorden. Still, MJ did listen to Phil because he was a true pro not like these babys today. When Pat came into NY, Ewing bought into him and believed and respected Riley so the match with the superstar was made and the team followed suite. Isiah just brings in guys that want to rock and roll and don't care what system is in place. The couldn't give 2 cents who is coaching and what they are trying to implement. That is a poor GM! Truth is, there is NO method to Isiah's system and if by chance the Knicks do land a big name 3-4 years from now, it will be a coincedent and a total accident. it's like a guy running in the woods in the dark and accidently falls into a gold mine.

  6. #6
    Newbie
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    41
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    Once again we cross swords. You really think that most knowledgeable Knicks fans agree with you that Marbury is a postive asset?? I doubt it. In fact I know it to be false. You make some very unreasonable assumptions. The cardinal sin is when you start believing your own bluster. Know when your full of it and when to pack in your cards.
    Marbury is a an absolute liability. When the Knicks do NOT make the playoffs this year, and play piss-poor porous defense again don't start strumming a different tune like you never committed the sin of verbal hubris.
    Own up to your folly. I expect a high turnover rate again this year, because IT is not trying to change these players street ball selfishness. Instead he is going to pander to it. By the way, he will be fired at the end of the coming season. No difference. What great coach will consider taking on the psychopath Dolan. The Knicks will be wedded to mediocre coaching talent for the next five years .

  7. #7
    Next season, keep waiting donchris's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Raleigh NC
    Posts
    1,688
    Rep Power
    12

    Media

    Ahhh hello my shadow! I notice you have a pretty good vocabulary but you seem to have some trouble reading. Allow me to assist, or if you care to scrole upward you can see that I posted "And weather you like the guy or not NYC rejoiced WHEN New York homegrown Marbury ARRIVED in NY." You see, I even capitalized the key words for you. As far as ball selfishness, no I exepct to see more team ball. Thomas has already siked the players. They all seem like they are egar to play for him. Actually I expected most of the forum members to be against this idea. You seem like a smart dude, well may be, but you failed to comment on the core point of mine. The media and it's influence on the minds of angry fans. You know, simple people like your self.

  8. #8
    Superstar The 1 and Only's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    995
    Rep Power
    9

    Default

    I absolutely agree with you don...that is the typical NY fan...rejoice the initial move and bash the move when we start losing. Thankfully I'm glad I'm not one of those crazy fans. You must think rationally; marbury and francis are two of the top scoring guards in the league...if you iso these guards they will cause havoc on the defense. Curry and Frye...two young post players that can evolve under the right guidance of these two ferocious scorers. Don't get me wrong, marbury and francis can be nut cases and crazy at times but under Isiah...I don't see that as a problem. I don't think anyone will mutiny against thomas because he's like everyone's best friend yet he enforces the truth to them unlike LB who bashes his players without trying to get to know them first. Q-Rich and J Rose are two guys that are in the middle of things...they will have to give us spurts of O when things are lagging and hit open jumpers from the slashing from marbury and francis. This uptempo offense is going to drastically help us compared to last year. These guys are like expanding gas...you can't bottle up expanding gas into a system because it will explode in your face. Look for more wins, a playoff birth, and hopefully a 1st round advance...and when the knicks make the playoffs and do become a better team from last year...I don't want to hear people changing there tunes because I'mma be the first person to say I told you so...

  9. #9
    Newbie liquid347's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    22
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    I dont agree with every move Isiah has made but i think he knows what he's doing. They will win more games next year by default there's no way they lose like that again, but if the players play with confidence which they lacked last season anything is possible, the east is so weak. i don't know why so called fans are calling next season a bust give the man and his system a chance. He's in a damned if he does damned if he doesn't situation with Butler ,if he keeps him the media will say he's overpaid if he lets him go they will rant and rave about how he was the best center they had. You cant believe every thing in the papers. At first every thing i read was oh poor Larry Brown no one mentioned that fact that the man used 42 different line ups and was benching rookies for playing well(this is the same man that would pull Lebron out of the game in the Olympics when he was doing good). **** the media all they do is plant the seeds of negativity in everyone look at the draft, RELANDO BALKMAN!?!? now after summer league he's the steal of the draft its ridicules.

  10. #10
    Knicks Guru hometheaterguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    1,017
    Rep Power
    11

    Default

    Originally Posted by liquid347
    I dont agree with every move Isiah has made but i think he knows what he's doing. They will win more games next year by default there's no way they lose like that again, but if the players play with confidence which they lacked last season anything is possible, the east is so weak. i don't know why so called fans are calling next season a bust give the man and his system a chance. He's in a damned if he does damned if he doesn't situation with Butler ,if he keeps him the media will say he's overpaid if he lets him go they will rant and rave about how he was the best center they had. You cant believe every thing in the papers. At first every thing i read was oh poor Larry Brown no one mentioned that fact that the man used 42 different line ups and was benching rookies for playing well(this is the same man that would pull Lebron out of the game in the Olympics when he was doing good). **** the media all they do is plant the seeds of negativity in everyone look at the draft, RELANDO BALKMAN!?!? now after summer league he's the steal of the draft its ridicules.
    Why do you say they will wim more game by default? Isiah takes over and they automatically have more wins? I also think they could very much have a similiar year. I do think they will win a few more games because yes, the east is a little weeker but the same lineup will ring out the same results in my opinion. I do believe in his drafting ability though and feel Balkman will contribute. I never doubted Isiahs draft, in fact I believe in his drafts blindly because of his track record, just like I believe that this season will be a dissapointment because of his track record as a coach. Listen, I hope he does good, first and foremost I am a Knicks fan and want to see them win so I will go into this season with hope.

  11. #11

    Default This Site Should Be Called Whack Job Central

    Originally Posted by The 1 and Only
    ... These guys are like expanding gas...you can't bottle up expanding gas into a system because it will explode in your face. Look for more wins, a playoff birth, and hopefully a 1st round advance...and when the knicks make the playoffs and do become a better team from last year...I don't want to hear people changing there tunes because I'mma be the first person to say I told you so...
    This guy is a delusional nut case.

    The answer to the forum topic is in fact: MENACE.

    Yeah, he's a mastermind allright. A mastermind of DISASTER.

    And who wrote this article anyway, Isiah Thomas' agent?
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] ... [/QUOTE]

    Why don’t the Knicks just add all of you Thomas nutsack lickers (and we know who you all are by now, right?) to their payroll so you can all help Isiah drive the team a little further into the ground, it such a thing were possible.

  12. #12
    Superstar The 1 and Only's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    995
    Rep Power
    9

    Default

    So why do you think that? Again you provide no reasoning except you're stupid comments that got you kicked out for the 3rd time to my knowledge. Give it a rest playa...you're not hurting anyone but yourself...

  13. #13
    Newbie
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    41
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    What an impudent ass! Not only am I not simple, I can see your attempts to bait me and go beyond them. The fact is that I care not for the basketball media
    and do NOT read their columns as a rule, because they are not accurate and always have their own hidden agendas. When there is a major piece of news, not rumor, I will take a look. I am no manipulated puppet for Peter Vecsey or
    Marc Berman, or the NY Times crew. I have some very nasty exchanges in my email with Vecsey. I must have touched a raw nerve with that guy, because he responded two times to messages I sent him critical of his handling of the Brown-Knicks fiasco. You are barking up the wrong tree. as usual, because you want to categorize me, pigeon hole my ideas, and make me less than human in other peoples' minds here. Trouble is that you just are
    too smart in your own eye's and really NOT smart enough to pull it off. The Dapper Don has crashed again.

  14. #14
    Superstar The 1 and Only's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    995
    Rep Power
    9

    Default

    hahaha well I don't know what that was all about but the title of this is IT: Mastermind or Menace....he put together a roster that could contend in the playoffs...that is no question. When we lose...that's not isiah's fault...that was LB's fault for not conforming to the roster and coaching with his stubborn ways. He was dumb in numerous occassions...
    1. Played a half court offense with one of the most athletic teams in the league.
    2. Limited the arguably best scoring point guard in the game by telling him to slow the tempo and pass the ball around more...knowing that the knicks win when Marbury scores 22+ pts.
    3. Benched our best scorer in clutch situations.
    4. Bashed a hot headed team in the media...this isn't an old veteran knick team that can absorb coach criticism from the likes of pat riley, this is a young, combustible roster that if clapped at will clap back. LB knew this and did it anyways.
    5. The lineup was changed 40+ times
    6. Neogotiated trades behind the CEOs of the organization (breach in contract)
    7. Forced a system on a roster that is the complete opposite of what the players do...he should have at least met half way and we would have won more games doing it.
    8. Coached like a confused little boy in elementary school instead of a hall of fame coach. I don't care if you love or hate LB...you must agree that herb williams could take us to more wins than LB did last year! No Question
    9. Oks trades that he soon later regrets and benches the freshly brought in talent with out giving a fair assessment.
    10. Plays Mind games with players such as Marbury and Ariza

    Did I leave off anything??

  15. #15
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    63
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    Allen, with the draft that just passed, I would have chosen Eddy Curry #1 overall, and so would all those GMs who supposedly would not make that trade! I mean, isn’t it possible that Isiah saw that the draft would be weak this year? I did! Nobody knew Noah would lead Florida that far, and he didn’t come out anyway! There is no clear-cut star in this draft, and Eddy Curry is better than any big man in this draft, hands down!
    The question is whether Isiah is a mastermind or a menace. I think the man is answering the question with every move he makes. The key to his methods is the long-term implications of his moves. He took an aging roster that was over the cap and made it into a young, talented team that is over the cap. Which would you rather have? He did all of this in spite of the fact there was no cap room and every team in the league tried to give him the shaft, knowing he had to make moves and thus forced him to accept contracts he would normally turn down. So far, the only bad move he made was the signing of Jerome James, and he had to out bid other teams to get him based on James’ performance vs. Sacramento in the playoffs the year before! It all goes back to the impatient nature of Knick fans, their seeming inability to see past the immediate season. Thankfully, Isiah does not bow to the pressure of the New York fans and goes about his business in a manner best suited to help this organization.
    It’s your world Isiah, to hell with your critics, do what’s right for the Knicks. True Knick fans know the deal!

Similar Threads

  1. Isiah Thomas
    By NYKnicks15 in forum NY Knicks
    Replies: 25
    Last Post: Dec 09, 2007, 14:56
  2. Isiah Rips Former Knick over Comments
    By vinod1227 in forum NY Knicks
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: Oct 25, 2006, 13:18
  3. Knicks Draft: Media Feedback
    By Die Dolan Die in forum NY Knicks
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: Jul 01, 2006, 05:04
  4. Isiah on with Fatcessa
    By RMK-NYK in forum NY Knicks
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: Dec 16, 2005, 18:47
  5. Vote for Isiah Thomas!
    By 1s1ah in forum NY Knicks
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: Mar 11, 2005, 12:02

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •