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Thread: My beef with Isiah

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    Default Official Thread for Knick fans who are tired of Isiah

    2 years $8 mil to Vin Baker
    5 years $30 mil to Jerome
    5 years $30 mil to Jeffries

    It just confuses me we spend that much money on subpar bench players. Jefferies is a good defender, and a balanced player with some flaws, but he's not worth that much money. He's a role PLAYER.

    I can't believe we didn't sign Ariza to the MLE, he's doing big things now in Orlando. Instead we sign a career 16 minute per game 30 year old fouling machine to a 5 year deal. Its decisions like that confuses me on what direction we're heading with Isiah. Obviously NO where.

    When I look into more and more, I just think Isiah became GM of the Knicks to improve other franchises.

    With Chicago, he took their garbage in Crawford and Curry. Sign and trades, he traded away expiring contracts, multiple first round players. Sure, we understand Tyrus Thomas isn't 1/5th the talent Curry is, but we gave Chicago the opportunity to improve as a team and sign key free agents such as Ben Wallace. We took their problems and added more bad contracts to our roster.

    Phoneix? Oh man, Isiah should be credited the MVP award. If it wasn't for Thomas, there would be no Nash/D'Antoni. No two peat MVP awards for Steve Nash. You wouldn't see the Suns in the WCF every year. Instead you would see Marbury and Penny burying that franchise with young talents such as Johnson, Barbosa, Amare, Marion not benefiting from the D'Antoni system.

    But no, Isiah had to trade every expiring contract he had and 3 draft picks for two of the worst contracts in the NBA, Marbury and Penny's contract. This open everything up for Phoneix. They get enough cap space to sign their franchise player in Steve Nash, and a key role player in Q-Rich. So we took two players who were on the decline with very little value cause of their contract? They get paid to play like all stars, when they produce below the all star level.

    Orlando? Well, we did them the biggest favor. We took Francis off their hands, we took another bad contract, and another player with little trade value who's on the decline. Steve Francis isn't the Franchise anymore, he's not all star, but yet Isiah has accepted to pay him like one. We gave Orlando a steal in Ariza. Now Ariza is excelling in Orlando, he's been the best foward in Orlando, out playing Hill, Turk, Battie and Darko. A big young suprise for Orlando. Also because of the Francis trade, Arroyo has gotten minutes and helped Orlando's 2nd unit. Now Orlando has a bench with chemistry.


    Even with drafting, he obviously spots talent easily, he has one of the best eyes for talent in the NBA with his history in Toronto drafting Camby, T-Mac, Stoudamire. But as GM of the Knicks, the only great picks he's made were Lee and Ariza. now Ariza is gone. Robinson was drafted over Jarrett Jack. Fyre was drafted over Bynum. Sean May looks superior to Fyre in every possible way. Granger was one of the best wing players to be drafted in 05', we let him go also. I understand not everyone can't have the PERFECT draft, but nothing never goes our side where it benefits us the most. We drafted a 2nd round pick Balkman over a pass first PG in Marcus Williams, hell even Rudy Fernandez who's been great for Portland, and other talents in the draft such as Rajon Rondo. Why can't we ever get the best our of the situation we're in? WE NEED NEW MANAGEMENT.


    I was also displeased with Isiah's deal with the coaches. Brown was totally unprossesional with his job in New York, but I can't believe Isiah invited Brown to town anyway. We obviously lacked defensively players. If you looked at the roster we had, anyone with common sense could of seen Brown and that roster would never see eye to eye. From Chaney to Lenny to Herb to Brown to now Isiah...how can we ever build chemsitry when we had 5 different coaches in the last 3 years? Plus you add that with all the trades Isiah make up, its very confusing trying to find out Isiah's logic and his plan. Now we're the same record as we were last year 13-21.

    I'm not even going to blame ALL OF this on Isiah, I realize Isiah isn't the only guy at the front office, I have beef with Cablevision/Dolan.

    Isiah has had 3 years to get under the salary cap, he had the CHANCE to get under the cap, but he refused to go that direction, instead he went backards.

    Lets look FOWARD, and move to a more positive direction for this franchise, its a new year and I'm all for new management. I've come to admit Isiah's ability for reconizing talent, and his coaching ability to communicate with his players. Isiah's coaching ability is like Herman Edwards, good communicator with his players, but terrible with the x and o's (GO JETS). I'm not trying to bitch here, or cry or however you may look at it, I'm just pointing out whats wrong right now, and it begins with the management, because thats been the main problem the last 3-5 years. We have a talented core group of players, but their value are down because the lack of production due to playing together, their flats are deflated. This makes it harder to trade a Marbury, or a Francis, or a Crawford.

    I'm gonna smoke a blunt, that Kings lost was painful, especially knowing we could of traded Fyre for Artest.
    Last edited by metrocard; Jan 15, 2007 at 13:31.

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    i have to disagree with you.. when u state that stevie franchise has
    '' little trade value ''... you are wrong.. he has 'no trade value'

    other than that .. I AGREE....

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    I don't agree... Ariza stinks... by far Isiah's worst discovery
    All he can do is dunk... almost threw a party when we traded him.

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    Metro,

    you just wrote the post of the year! I didn't know J.Jack was chosen over Nate. As for Ariza, I miss him. I always thought he could be molded into a Knick version of Tayshaun Prince.

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    Originally Posted by Starks
    Metro,

    you just wrote the post of the year! I didn't know J.Jack was chosen over Nate. As for Ariza, I miss him. I always thought he could be molded into a Knick version of Tayshaun Prince.

    i totally agree! thats some good points -Metro-its f*king hard being a knicks fan man. still go knicks

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    Good post man. But not to side with Isiah even though I hope he succeeds so we don't change our coach for the 6th time in 6 years, but you have to realize what trash he had when he came here. He tried to make the knicks a more athletic, young team and that's exactly what he did. We had no marquee players here other than H20 but he then trades for Coney Island native Starbury and every knick fan's eye lights up with hope. He never I repeat never had a bad season untill LB arrived and that's because he gave into the team concept. And he had to get Jerome James because we had no Center at the time. I agree with you...he is trash. But he's 7'2...he had something that we lacked and that's height. But he should have never gotten him for the long term because anyone is better than Jerome. Dag Cato is better than James. I was also mad when Ariza was traded but I see more in Balkman than what I see in Ariza. Balkman is just as good a finisher as Ariza plus he's a better rebounder and defender and helpside blocker. Let's just give him some time to develop. And I really don't know who was responsible for hiring the coaches, whoever did it...did a poor job. We just have to remember to get talent he had to take on bad contracts, he had no cap space. And the whole league knew this so they took advantage of it. Look at the talent of our team and ask yourself, could another GM do any better? This actually a talented team it's just that it needs a little more time to develop. We actually see fight in the Knicks. FIGHT! How long was it that we actually saw spunk in the knicks? How long was it that we take on some of the leagues best teams into overtime and rip their manhood from them? Time will tell. Again good post man.

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    Originally Posted by metrocard
    2 years $8 mil to Vin Baker
    5 years $30 mil to Jerome
    5 years $30 mil to Jeffries

    It just confuses me we spend that much money on subpar bench players. Jefferies is a good defender, and a balanced player with some flaws, but he's not worth that much money. He's a role PLAYER.

    I can't believe we didn't sign Ariza to the MLE, he's doing big things now in Orlando. Instead we sign a career 16 minute per game 30 year old fouling machine to a 5 year deal. Its decisions like that confuses me on what direction we're heading with Isiah. Obviously NO where.

    When I look into more and more, I just think Isiah became GM of the Knicks to improve other franchises.

    With Chicago, he took their garbage in Crawford and Curry. Sign and trades, he traded away expiring contracts, multiple first round players. Sure, we understand Tyrus Thomas isn't 1/5th the talent Curry is, but we gave Chicago the opportunity to improve as a team and sign key free agents such as Ben Wallace. We took their problems and added more bad contracts to our roster.

    Phoneix? Oh man, Isiah should be credited the MVP award. If it wasn't for Thomas, there would be no Nash/D'Antoni. No two peat MVP awards for Steve Nash. You wouldn't see the Suns in the WCF every year. Instead you would see Marbury and Penny burying that franchise with young talents such as Johnson, Barbosa, Amare, Marion not benefiting from the D'Antoni system.

    But no, Isiah had to trade every expiring contract he had and 3 draft picks for two of the worst contracts in the NBA, Marbury and Penny's contract. This open everything up for Phoneix. They get enough cap space to sign their franchise player in Steve Nash, and a key role player in Q-Rich. So we took two players who were on the decline with very little value cause of their contract? They get paid to play like all stars, when they produce below the all star level.

    Orlando? Well, we did them the biggest favor. We took Francis off their hands, we took another bad contract, and another player with little trade value who's on the decline. Steve Francis isn't the Franchise anymore, he's not all star, but yet Isiah has accepted to pay him like one. We gave Orlando a steal in Ariza. Now Ariza is excelling in Orlando, he's been the best foward in Orlando, out playing Hill, Turk, Battie and Darko. A big young suprise for Orlando. Also because of the Francis trade, Arroyo has gotten minutes and helped Orlando's 2nd unit. Now Orlando has a bench with chemistry.


    Even with drafting, he obviously spots talent easily, he has one of the best eyes for talent in the NBA with his history in Toronto drafting Camby, T-Mac, Stoudamire. But as GM of the Knicks, the only great picks he's made were Lee and Ariza. now Ariza is gone. Robinson was drafted over Jarrett Jack. Fyre was drafted over Bynum. Sean May looks superior to Fyre in every possible way. Granger was one of the best wing players to be drafted in 05', we let him go also. I understand not everyone can't have the PERFECT draft, but nothing never goes our side where it benefits us the most. We drafted a 2nd round pick Balkman over a pass first PG in Marcus Williams, hell even Rudy Fernandez who's been great for Portland, and other talents in the draft such as Rajon Rondo. Why can't we ever get the best our of the situation we're in? WE NEED NEW MANAGEMENT.


    I was also displeased with Isiah's deal with the coaches. Brown was totally unprossesional with his job in New York, but I can't believe Isiah invited Brown to town anyway. We obviously lacked defensively players. If you looked at the roster we had, anyone with common sense could of seen Brown and that roster would never see eye to eye. From Chaney to Lenny to Herb to Brown to now Isiah...how can we ever build chemsitry when we had 5 different coaches in the last 3 years? Plus you add that with all the trades Isiah make up, its very confusing trying to find out Isiah's logic and his plan. Now we're the same record as we were last year 13-21.

    I'm not even going to blame ALL OF this on Isiah, I realize Isiah isn't the only guy at the front office, I have beef with Cablevision/Dolan.

    Isiah has had 3 years to get under the salary cap, he had the CHANCE to get under the cap, but he refused to go that direction, instead he went backards.

    Lets look FOWARD, and move to a more positive direction for this franchise, its a new year and I'm all for new management. I've come to admit Isiah's ability for reconizing talent, and his coaching ability to communicate with his players. Isiah's coaching ability is like Herman Edwards, good communicator with his players, but terrible with the x and o's (GO JETS). I'm not trying to bitch here, or cry or however you may look at it, I'm just pointing out whats wrong right now, and it begins with the management, because thats been the main problem the last 3-5 years. We have a talented core group of players, but their value are down because the lack of production due to playing together, their flats are deflated. This makes it harder to trade a Marbury, or a Francis, or a Crawford.

    I'm gonna smoke a blunt, that Kings lost was painful, especially knowing we could of traded Fyre for Artest.
    Hind site is 20/20 but do you really think Crawford and Curry are trash players? Do you think we would be winning more games if we had Arisa? Be honest, you weren't jumping for joy when we got Larry Brown? I know I was. Most of NY thought it was a great idea. 43 starting line ups later we saw that we were all wrong. I can't say that Thomas is a good GM because he could have done so much better in many cases. But still I like this team and the core that we now have. I think Curry is one of the best centers in the league and Crawford is one of the best clutch players in the east. I'm not going to get into personal insults so let’s talk b-ball.

    This is NY we're talking about. An impatient city. The smartest thing for Thomas to have done is to let all the contracts expire so that we could make a quick run at a franchise player but that was never going to happen. Not in NY when they won’t wins yesterday. He had to bring in new blood. So wave bye to Charlie Ward, Kurt Thomas and Antonio McDyse. And now we have Marbury, Richardson and down the line we brought in Curry and Crawford. These four players are much better than what we had.

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    If Isiah had built a winning team I would be supporting him. He hasnt, so I wont.

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    Default It's OK to leave the Knicks....

    Ok, so I feel bad even posting this. I am not a Knicks fan, but don't particularly hate them. I'm a die-hard Lakers fan and proud of it, but I can't stand seeing you all suffer like you are. I'm writing to tell you that it is OK to abandon the Knicks!

    First off, I am not a fair-weather fan. I'm a die-hard, grow-up-in-the-town-and-own-it fan. I grew up in L.A. and root for the L.A. Kings, Dodgers, Lakers . . . and here is the real proof: I root for the RAIDERS! Even though they thoroughly suck and left L.A., it just isn't right to abandon the home team - NEVER!*

    *Unless you root for the poor Knicks. They are in the worst division in the league and barely treading water with a payroll that is, well, disgusting. Just think if the Yankees couldn't even make it over .500!

    *It is OK, this one time, call it an amnesty clause, call it the "Alan Houston" rule, call it sanity, leave the Knicks while you still can. They are sad. If teams could admit they've made a mistake with the Houston rule, you can too, now man-up and say good-bye to a team so full of pain and confusion that a Laker fan can't even bare to watch it.

    P.S. There is no reason to root for signing C-Webb. For the Knicks to sign a washed-up player who has nothing left in the tank and a huge price tag, I believe he needs to be a guard! Ouch!!! Sorry, but that just makes my side split every time I say it. Sorry, sorry, sorry.

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    Originally Posted by Jamie
    Ok, so I feel bad even posting this. I am not a Knicks fan, but don't particularly hate them. I'm a die-hard Lakers fan and proud of it, but I can't stand seeing you all suffer like you are. I'm writing to tell you that it is OK to abandon the Knicks!

    First off, I am not a fair-weather fan. I'm a die-hard, grow-up-in-the-town-and-own-it fan. I grew up in L.A. and root for the L.A. Kings, Dodgers, Lakers . . . and here is the real proof: I root for the RAIDERS! Even though they thoroughly suck and left L.A., it just isn't right to abandon the home team - NEVER!*

    *Unless you root for the poor Knicks. They are in the worst division in the league and barely treading water with a payroll that is, well, disgusting. Just think if the Yankees couldn't even make it over .500!

    *It is OK, this one time, call it an amnesty clause, call it the "Alan Houston" rule, call it sanity, leave the Knicks while you still can. They are sad. If teams could admit they've made a mistake with the Houston rule, you can too, now man-up and say good-bye to a team so full of pain and confusion that a Laker fan can't even bare to watch it.

    P.S. There is no reason to root for signing C-Webb. For the Knicks to sign a washed-up player who has nothing left in the tank and a huge price tag, I believe he needs to be a guard! Ouch!!! Sorry, but that just makes my side split every time I say it. Sorry, sorry, sorry.

    unless c webb is washed up (i think there is still a little left in the tank), with at least 2-3 year left on a massive contract (40/50m), I.T. has no interest...

    we need someone on the bench, to keep the franchise company, making similar money... u know someone who has something in common with stevie... over the hill/overpaid, with lots of years left...

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    Default I knew knicks fans had a sense of humor....

    Or else they couldn't be knicks fans!

    Paris, you are the bomb!

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    Originally Posted by Jamie
    Ok, so I feel bad even posting this. I am not a Knicks fan, but don't particularly hate them. I'm a die-hard Lakers fan and proud of it, but I can't stand seeing you all suffer like you are. I'm writing to tell you that it is OK to abandon the Knicks!

    First off, I am not a fair-weather fan. I'm a die-hard, grow-up-in-the-town-and-own-it fan. I grew up in L.A. and root for the L.A. Kings, Dodgers, Lakers . . . and here is the real proof: I root for the RAIDERS! Even though they thoroughly suck and left L.A., it just isn't right to abandon the home team - NEVER!*

    *Unless you root for the poor Knicks. They are in the worst division in the league and barely treading water with a payroll that is, well, disgusting. Just think if the Yankees couldn't even make it over .500!

    *It is OK, this one time, call it an amnesty clause, call it the "Alan Houston" rule, call it sanity, leave the Knicks while you still can. They are sad. If teams could admit they've made a mistake with the Houston rule, you can too, now man-up and say good-bye to a team so full of pain and confusion that a Laker fan can't even bare to watch it.

    P.S. There is no reason to root for signing C-Webb. For the Knicks to sign a washed-up player who has nothing left in the tank and a huge price tag, I believe he needs to be a guard! Ouch!!! Sorry, but that just makes my side split every time I say it. Sorry, sorry, sorry.

    This is the dumbest post I've ever read. You say a true fan never abandons the home team but you tell all of us to abandon ours. The only smart thing you posted is your humble advice for us not to root for a Webber trade. Every one is entitled to their opinion but to tell some one that their team sucks and they should find a new one is a **** thing to say. I think you are lost fellow. Go find a Lakers fan site.

  13. #13
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    I agree that what I said was crappy, and I'm sorry for that, but perhaps you didn't notice the asterisk. See, I'm offering you a "Fan Amnesty Clause." How great is that?

    I really had to post something here, I was in a different place and a poor Knicks fan literally went off of the site administrator because he stated that Webber only wanted to play for a contender, and so logically the Knicks were out. I couldn't take it.

    Well, I'm sorry again, but I guess my post is not for those without a sense of humor. And as I noted above, I thought all current Knicks fans must have some sense of humor, or how could you still be rooting?

    I am a lost fellow, but only becuase the Lakers haven't delivered a ring for a few years - they will soon though - and they'll do without spending over
    $100M on their roster.

    Obviously I don't want you to stop rooting for the Knicks, just be aware that they aren't contenders and that they are the laughing stock of the league. That's what I realize when I say I'm a Raiders fan. I get it, but if you think the Knicks are good you are only dreaming and that isn't going to help your team. They need to realize they stink and then maybe they'll make some changes. Perhaps they could add Penny Hardaway or something, since they can never seem to have enough washed-up veterans

    I'm not sure what to do with the kiss the ring thing. I guess I'll kiss the one I have on?

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    Just a little off-topic. You registered with 2 usernames. Clones are not accepted here so pick one that you will use from now.

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    Wow. I'm almost at a loss for words. Almost. So you have a ring now? Did you play for the Championship Lakers? There is no need to be apologetic when you continue making the same point. Ether make it or don't, but don't apologize for it. What can I say about the Lakers? You've got the best all star SG in the league and a legendary coach. We’ve got Thomas and a young barely consistant team. There's really no comparison. But understand that this site is made up of mostly knowledgably fans (with a few exceptions) so we are well aware of our teams status in the league and the Knicks financial situation. It is what it is. We all know we don't have a snow balls chance in hell of getting a title any time soon. Knowing that and still rooting for the home team is what's the difference between us and you. I use to think Knicks fans were bad about turning on their team but they are nothing compaired to the Laker fans. I never saw so many douche bag Laker fans at a Clippers game as I did last season. Now the Clippers are struggling and they are Lakers fans again. Did they use your Fan Amnesty Clause? We call that bandwagon on the east coast.

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