My beef with Isiah

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metrocard

Legend
Official Thread for Knick fans who are tired of Isiah

2 years $8 mil to Vin Baker
5 years $30 mil to Jerome
5 years $30 mil to Jeffries

It just confuses me we spend that much money on subpar bench players. Jefferies is a good defender, and a balanced player with some flaws, but he's not worth that much money. He's a role PLAYER.

I can't believe we didn't sign Ariza to the MLE, he's doing big things now in Orlando. Instead we sign a career 16 minute per game 30 year old fouling machine to a 5 year deal. Its decisions like that confuses me on what direction we're heading with Isiah. Obviously NO where.

When I look into more and more, I just think Isiah became GM of the Knicks to improve other franchises.

With Chicago, he took their garbage in Crawford and Curry. Sign and trades, he traded away expiring contracts, multiple first round players. Sure, we understand Tyrus Thomas isn't 1/5th the talent Curry is, but we gave Chicago the opportunity to improve as a team and sign key free agents such as Ben Wallace. We took their problems and added more bad contracts to our roster.

Phoneix? Oh man, Isiah should be credited the MVP award. If it wasn't for Thomas, there would be no Nash/D'Antoni. No two peat MVP awards for Steve Nash. You wouldn't see the Suns in the WCF every year. Instead you would see Marbury and Penny burying that franchise with young talents such as Johnson, Barbosa, Amare, Marion not benefiting from the D'Antoni system.

But no, Isiah had to trade every expiring contract he had and 3 draft picks for two of the worst contracts in the NBA, Marbury and Penny's contract. This open everything up for Phoneix. They get enough cap space to sign their franchise player in Steve Nash, and a key role player in Q-Rich. So we took two players who were on the decline with very little value cause of their contract? They get paid to play like all stars, when they produce below the all star level.

Orlando? Well, we did them the biggest favor. We took Francis off their hands, we took another bad contract, and another player with little trade value who's on the decline. Steve Francis isn't the Franchise anymore, he's not all star, but yet Isiah has accepted to pay him like one. We gave Orlando a steal in Ariza. Now Ariza is excelling in Orlando, he's been the best foward in Orlando, out playing Hill, Turk, Battie and Darko. A big young suprise for Orlando. Also because of the Francis trade, Arroyo has gotten minutes and helped Orlando's 2nd unit. Now Orlando has a bench with chemistry.


Even with drafting, he obviously spots talent easily, he has one of the best eyes for talent in the NBA with his history in Toronto drafting Camby, T-Mac, Stoudamire. But as GM of the Knicks, the only great picks he's made were Lee and Ariza. now Ariza is gone. Robinson was drafted over Jarrett Jack. Fyre was drafted over Bynum. Sean May looks superior to Fyre in every possible way. Granger was one of the best wing players to be drafted in 05', we let him go also. I understand not everyone can't have the PERFECT draft, but nothing never goes our side where it benefits us the most. We drafted a 2nd round pick Balkman over a pass first PG in Marcus Williams, hell even Rudy Fernandez who's been great for Portland, and other talents in the draft such as Rajon Rondo. Why can't we ever get the best our of the situation we're in? WE NEED NEW MANAGEMENT.


I was also displeased with Isiah's deal with the coaches. Brown was totally unprossesional with his job in New York, but I can't believe Isiah invited Brown to town anyway. We obviously lacked defensively players. If you looked at the roster we had, anyone with common sense could of seen Brown and that roster would never see eye to eye. From Chaney to Lenny to Herb to Brown to now Isiah...how can we ever build chemsitry when we had 5 different coaches in the last 3 years? Plus you add that with all the trades Isiah make up, its very confusing trying to find out Isiah's logic and his plan. Now we're the same record as we were last year 13-21.

I'm not even going to blame ALL OF this on Isiah, I realize Isiah isn't the only guy at the front office, I have beef with Cablevision/Dolan.

Isiah has had 3 years to get under the salary cap, he had the CHANCE to get under the cap, but he refused to go that direction, instead he went backards.

Lets look FOWARD, and move to a more positive direction for this franchise, its a new year and I'm all for new management. I've come to admit Isiah's ability for reconizing talent, and his coaching ability to communicate with his players. Isiah's coaching ability is like Herman Edwards, good communicator with his players, but terrible with the x and o's (GO JETS). I'm not trying to bitch here, or cry or however you may look at it, I'm just pointing out whats wrong right now, and it begins with the management, because thats been the main problem the last 3-5 years. We have a talented core group of players, but their value are down because the lack of production due to playing together, their flats are deflated. This makes it harder to trade a Marbury, or a Francis, or a Crawford.

I'm gonna smoke a blunt, that Kings lost was painful, especially knowing we could of traded Fyre for Artest. :smokin:
 
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paris401

Starter
i have to disagree with you.. when u state that stevie franchise has
'' little trade value ''... you are wrong.. he has 'no trade value'

other than that .. I AGREE....
 

bsz

Rookie
I don't agree... Ariza stinks... by far Isiah's worst discovery
All he can do is dunk... almost threw a party when we traded him.
 

Starks

Starter
Metro,

you just wrote the post of the year! I didn't know J.Jack was chosen over Nate. As for Ariza, I miss him. I always thought he could be molded into a Knick version of Tayshaun Prince.
 

die_hard

Rookie
Metro,

you just wrote the post of the year! I didn't know J.Jack was chosen over Nate. As for Ariza, I miss him. I always thought he could be molded into a Knick version of Tayshaun Prince.


i totally agree! thats some good points -Metro-its f*king hard being a knicks fan man. still go knicks
 

The 1 and Only

Rotation player
Good post man. But not to side with Isiah even though I hope he succeeds so we don't change our coach for the 6th time in 6 years, but you have to realize what trash he had when he came here. He tried to make the knicks a more athletic, young team and that's exactly what he did. We had no marquee players here other than H20 but he then trades for Coney Island native Starbury and every knick fan's eye lights up with hope. He never I repeat never had a bad season untill LB arrived and that's because he gave into the team concept. And he had to get Jerome James because we had no Center at the time. I agree with you...he is trash. But he's 7'2...he had something that we lacked and that's height. But he should have never gotten him for the long term because anyone is better than Jerome. Dag Cato is better than James. I was also mad when Ariza was traded but I see more in Balkman than what I see in Ariza. Balkman is just as good a finisher as Ariza plus he's a better rebounder and defender and helpside blocker. Let's just give him some time to develop. And I really don't know who was responsible for hiring the coaches, whoever did it...did a poor job. We just have to remember to get talent he had to take on bad contracts, he had no cap space. And the whole league knew this so they took advantage of it. Look at the talent of our team and ask yourself, could another GM do any better? This actually a talented team it's just that it needs a little more time to develop. We actually see fight in the Knicks. FIGHT! How long was it that we actually saw spunk in the knicks? How long was it that we take on some of the leagues best teams into overtime and rip their manhood from them? Time will tell. Again good post man.
 

metrocard

Legend
Good post man. But not to side with Isiah even though I hope he succeeds so we don't change our coach for the 6th time in 6 years, but you have to realize what trash he had when he came here. He tried to make the knicks a more athletic, young team and that's exactly what he did. We had no marquee players here other than H20 but he then trades for Coney Island native Starbury and every knick fan's eye lights up with hope. He never I repeat never had a bad season untill LB arrived and that's because he gave into the team concept. And he had to get Jerome James because we had no Center at the time. I agree with you...he is trash. But he's 7'2...he had something that we lacked and that's height. But he should have never gotten him for the long term because anyone is better than Jerome. Dag Cato is better than James. I was also mad when Ariza was traded but I see more in Balkman than what I see in Ariza. Balkman is just as good a finisher as Ariza plus he's a better rebounder and defender and helpside blocker. Let's just give him some time to develop. And I really don't know who was responsible for hiring the coaches, whoever did it...did a poor job. We just have to remember to get talent he had to take on bad contracts, he had no cap space. And the whole league knew this so they took advantage of it. Look at the talent of our team and ask yourself, could another GM do any better? This actually a talented team it's just that it needs a little more time to develop. We actually see fight in the Knicks. FIGHT! How long was it that we actually saw spunk in the knicks? How long was it that we take on some of the leagues best teams into overtime and rip their manhood from them? Time will tell. Again good post man.

I have to admit, LB made things worse for Isiah, and the Knicks franchise with his stubborness. I understand we don't have the best roster in the NBA, but Brown never gave any the players the coach, he never ADJUSTED to players, and he expected the players to adjust to him. I really feel Brown did a bad job, but at the same time, I put the blame to Dolan/Brown for invited him.


bsz, I'm sorry, but watch Ariza play in Orlando, he's been their 2nd best player behind Dwight Howard. Balkman is nice, he's accually better defensively compared to Ariza, but Ariza is great defensively, and his offense has been very improved, he's been a consistant slashy(what we're missing from the SF position). Ariza as good defensively, and a superior offensively player, but Balkman gives you more agressive. It doesn't matter do, we could of had both BALKMAN AND ARIZA. It pains me more to see Ariza in Orlando, all my friends from Orlando now clown on me, they're so excited having Ariza.

Listen, I love Balkman's game, but we still could of KEPT Ariza, and still have Balkman. Playing Balkman at the 4, Ariza at the 3, Richardson at the 2 Collins at the 1 Lee at center...thats a SERIOUS defensive shut down line up. We become more versitle, VERY FAST TEMPO team, who can put alot of pressure on defense.

Forget that...imagine if we drafted Marcus Williams, then drafted Balkman after that and kept Ariza. That alone would be a squad. Williams/Richardson/Ariza/Lee/Curry. Talk about set for the future, anyway. Its right infront of Isiah, Isiah could of had this team in the right direction, but it he always seems to choose the wrong path.
 

Allen

Benchwarmer
Good post Metro.

1 and only, we could have had Desanga Diop for a cheaper price. He is younger and as tall as James. He did or is doing great things for Dallas.
 

dr.carpy

Benchwarmer
Eddy Curry is by the numbers the 3 best center in the NBA. Yeah he isn't the best defender. But how could we have traded Frye for Artest? Their salaries aren't remotely close. The Knicks lost last night. So what. NBA bigs take the longest to develop. Curry is now starting to function like a NBA center. Six years later. Except for exceptional talents, Ewing, Shaq, Duncan, and Garnett what NBA Big body steps in and contributes right away? Dwight Howard still looks lost on offense. And there are nights when Amare looks human. Dirk Nowitzki is now learning how to rebound. We signed Jerome James at around 6 per. In NBA standards, thats a moveable contract. So is Jeffries at the same mark. At the same token Imagine this, imagine that game is time well wasted. Imagine if the Knicks weren't over the cap? Too bad folks, We are, so we need to deal with whats in front of us. Ben Wallace is 33. He was partly the reason why they (Detroit) won against the Lakers, but the reason why (Detroit) lost to San Antonio the next year. Thats why Chicago is looking for another inside presence. Ben Wallace gives the Bulls zero on offense. Chicago overpaid for him, and he is far more "untradeable" than JJ. Reality is that the rebuilding phase truly begins in February 2008 when Marbury and Francis's 36 Mil come of the books. Truth is and bitch and she bites folks. Til then we get our young guys minutes and some seasoning. We need an outside threat to help Eddy Curry. It's unfair to expect worldbeaters from such a young group of guys. Frye, Curry, Lee, Balkman, Jeffries are all still learning! Give it time. If you've been a fan, for any amount of time, what's another two years? Guessing games and ideal circumstances aren't what we are dealing with. Hindsight is always 20/20. If this response is taken as a slight so be it. I hope maturity prevails and this is viewed for what it is. MY Opinion. Save the Isiah sexual stuff for the Jerry Springer Knicks Forum.

P.S. I like Ariza, but with Grant Hill On his team, you think he would learn how to shoot (Mid Range and Three). I also said we should look at Jarett Jack like last year, feel free to read the archive posts. Everyone hear thought I was crazy for wanting to move Marbury. Anyone still think I'm crazy now? Again, evidence that hindsight is 20/20.
 

donchris

Next season, keep waiting
2 years $8 mil to Vin Baker
5 years $30 mil to Jerome
5 years $30 mil to Jeffries

It just confuses me we spend that much money on subpar bench players. Jefferies is a good defender, and a balanced player with some flaws, but he's not worth that much money. He's a role PLAYER.

I can't believe we didn't sign Ariza to the MLE, he's doing big things now in Orlando. Instead we sign a career 16 minute per game 30 year old fouling machine to a 5 year deal. Its decisions like that confuses me on what direction we're heading with Isiah. Obviously NO where.

When I look into more and more, I just think Isiah became GM of the Knicks to improve other franchises.

With Chicago, he took their garbage in Crawford and Curry. Sign and trades, he traded away expiring contracts, multiple first round players. Sure, we understand Tyrus Thomas isn't 1/5th the talent Curry is, but we gave Chicago the opportunity to improve as a team and sign key free agents such as Ben Wallace. We took their problems and added more bad contracts to our roster.

Phoneix? Oh man, Isiah should be credited the MVP award. If it wasn't for Thomas, there would be no Nash/D'Antoni. No two peat MVP awards for Steve Nash. You wouldn't see the Suns in the WCF every year. Instead you would see Marbury and Penny burying that franchise with young talents such as Johnson, Barbosa, Amare, Marion not benefiting from the D'Antoni system.

But no, Isiah had to trade every expiring contract he had and 3 draft picks for two of the worst contracts in the NBA, Marbury and Penny's contract. This open everything up for Phoneix. They get enough cap space to sign their franchise player in Steve Nash, and a key role player in Q-Rich. So we took two players who were on the decline with very little value cause of their contract? They get paid to play like all stars, when they produce below the all star level.

Orlando? Well, we did them the biggest favor. We took Francis off their hands, we took another bad contract, and another player with little trade value who's on the decline. Steve Francis isn't the Franchise anymore, he's not all star, but yet Isiah has accepted to pay him like one. We gave Orlando a steal in Ariza. Now Ariza is excelling in Orlando, he's been the best foward in Orlando, out playing Hill, Turk, Battie and Darko. A big young suprise for Orlando. Also because of the Francis trade, Arroyo has gotten minutes and helped Orlando's 2nd unit. Now Orlando has a bench with chemistry.


Even with drafting, he obviously spots talent easily, he has one of the best eyes for talent in the NBA with his history in Toronto drafting Camby, T-Mac, Stoudamire. But as GM of the Knicks, the only great picks he's made were Lee and Ariza. now Ariza is gone. Robinson was drafted over Jarrett Jack. Fyre was drafted over Bynum. Sean May looks superior to Fyre in every possible way. Granger was one of the best wing players to be drafted in 05', we let him go also. I understand not everyone can't have the PERFECT draft, but nothing never goes our side where it benefits us the most. We drafted a 2nd round pick Balkman over a pass first PG in Marcus Williams, hell even Rudy Fernandez who's been great for Portland, and other talents in the draft such as Rajon Rondo. Why can't we ever get the best our of the situation we're in? WE NEED NEW MANAGEMENT.


I was also displeased with Isiah's deal with the coaches. Brown was totally unprossesional with his job in New York, but I can't believe Isiah invited Brown to town anyway. We obviously lacked defensively players. If you looked at the roster we had, anyone with common sense could of seen Brown and that roster would never see eye to eye. From Chaney to Lenny to Herb to Brown to now Isiah...how can we ever build chemsitry when we had 5 different coaches in the last 3 years? Plus you add that with all the trades Isiah make up, its very confusing trying to find out Isiah's logic and his plan. Now we're the same record as we were last year 13-21.

I'm not even going to blame ALL OF this on Isiah, I realize Isiah isn't the only guy at the front office, I have beef with Cablevision/Dolan.

Isiah has had 3 years to get under the salary cap, he had the CHANCE to get under the cap, but he refused to go that direction, instead he went backards.

Lets look FOWARD, and move to a more positive direction for this franchise, its a new year and I'm all for new management. I've come to admit Isiah's ability for reconizing talent, and his coaching ability to communicate with his players. Isiah's coaching ability is like Herman Edwards, good communicator with his players, but terrible with the x and o's (GO JETS). I'm not trying to bitch here, or cry or however you may look at it, I'm just pointing out whats wrong right now, and it begins with the management, because thats been the main problem the last 3-5 years. We have a talented core group of players, but their value are down because the lack of production due to playing together, their flats are deflated. This makes it harder to trade a Marbury, or a Francis, or a Crawford.

I'm gonna smoke a blunt, that Kings lost was painful, especially knowing we could of traded Fyre for Artest. :smokin:

Hind site is 20/20 but do you really think Crawford and Curry are trash players? Do you think we would be winning more games if we had Arisa? Be honest, you weren't jumping for joy when we got Larry Brown? I know I was. Most of NY thought it was a great idea. 43 starting line ups later we saw that we were all wrong. I can't say that Thomas is a good GM because he could have done so much better in many cases. But still I like this team and the core that we now have. I think Curry is one of the best centers in the league and Crawford is one of the best clutch players in the east. I'm not going to get into personal insults so let’s talk b-ball.

This is NY we're talking about. An impatient city. The smartest thing for Thomas to have done is to let all the contracts expire so that we could make a quick run at a franchise player but that was never going to happen. Not in NY when they won’t wins yesterday. He had to bring in new blood. So wave bye to Charlie Ward, Kurt Thomas and Antonio McDyse. And now we have Marbury, Richardson and down the line we brought in Curry and Crawford. These four players are much better than what we had.
 

metrocard

Legend
Eddy Curry is by the numbers the 3 best center in the NBA. Yeah he isn't the best defender. But how could we have traded Frye for Artest? Their salaries aren't remotely close. The Knicks lost last night. So what. NBA bigs take the longest to develop. Curry is now starting to function like a NBA center. Six years later. Except for exceptional talents, Ewing, Shaq, Duncan, and Garnett what NBA Big body steps in and contributes right away? Dwight Howard still looks lost on offense. And there are nights when Amare looks human. Dirk Nowitzki is now learning how to rebound. We signed Jerome James at around 6 per. In NBA standards, thats a moveable contract. So is Jeffries at the same mark. At the same token Imagine this, imagine that game is time well wasted. Imagine if the Knicks weren't over the cap? Too bad folks, We are, so we need to deal with whats in front of us. Ben Wallace is 33. He was partly the reason why they (Detroit) won against the Lakers, but the reason why (Detroit) lost to San Antonio the next year. Thats why Chicago is looking for another inside presence. Ben Wallace gives the Bulls zero on offense. Chicago overpaid for him, and he is far more "untradeable" than JJ. Reality is that the rebuilding phase truly begins in February 2008 when Marbury and Francis's 36 Mil come of the books. Truth is and bitch and she bites folks. Til then we get our young guys minutes and some seasoning. We need an outside threat to help Eddy Curry. It's unfair to expect worldbeaters from such a young group of guys. Frye, Curry, Lee, Balkman, Jeffries are all still learning! Give it time. If you've been a fan, for any amount of time, what's another two years? Guessing games and ideal circumstances aren't what we are dealing with. Hindsight is always 20/20. If this response is taken as a slight so be it. I hope maturity prevails and this is viewed for what it is. MY Opinion. Save the Isiah sexual stuff for the Jerry Springer Knicks Forum.

P.S. I like Ariza, but with Grant Hill On his team, you think he would learn how to shoot (Mid Range and Three). I also said we should look at Jarett Jack like last year, feel free to read the archive posts. Everyone hear thought I was crazy for wanting to move Marbury. Anyone still think I'm crazy now? Again, evidence that hindsight is 20/20.


dr.carpy, if you were absent last year, the Pacers showed alot of interest for Channing Fyre. Obviously other players would of been involved to match the salaries. Isiah once again went with his ego and his pride and put it over the Knicks franchise. It was a bad decision

Dirk Nowitzki is now learning how to rebound? Thats a funny sentence. Dirk has never been a banger, but thats his game. He still manages to get 9-10 rebounds a game. He's always been a good rebounder, forget the fact he's 7 foot, not all 7 footers are elite rebounds, because they don't have the quickness and explosiveness off the ground like a Shawn Marion and Elton Brand, alot of the times the 6"8 guys are the superior rebounders cause of their quick jump off the floor and Dirk has always been with the elites in the NBA in total rebounds. He just learned to rebound? HA, Dirk has been averaging 9 rebounds per ever since he became a starter in Dallas.

Amare just came from an injury thats suppose to take 2 years of full recovory. He just came from a 25+/18 rebound game against Chicago. Amare when healthy is one of the big big men in the NBA. He was unstoppable in the playoffs against Duncan and the Spurs two years ago. We know how talented he is, and everyone in the NBA looks human, its called a bad game. I really don't know what this has to do with Eddy Curry's inability to be an efficent leader scorer. Eddy Curry is one of the worst leading team scorers in the NBA, he shouldn't be a first option because he lacks consistancy of not turning the ball over. Our defense isn't bad as everyone thinks too. Its just the turnovers are KILLING us. We average over 17 turnovers a game, how can we even expect to win games? Thats why we've been in so many close games, we give teams as many chances as possible with the turnovers. That is not the key to winning.


In NBA standards thats a movable contract? Explain where. Name atleast 10 teams in the NBA that would accept Jerome James' 5 year $30 mil contract. Stop trying to make it sound easy.

Can you be anymore obvious? Ben Wallace gave the Pistons zero on offense. He was signed because of his defensive presence and his rebounding. Chicago is finally coming together which pisses me off, cause we gave them the team they have now basically. All the cap space is because of Isiah. Seeing them suceed and win and watching my team lose makes it more painful. I don't know about you, I'm a very passionate fan. Hindsight is always 20/20 has to be the most overused line in this forum.

We already know this. We're going to be over the cap until 2008-09. I've said it in my thread. The New York Daily News have said it countless of times. We all know this. What you're saying is nothing new. We're aware of the reality and how poorly Isiah has managed this team. This is why all the moves Isiah have done were terrible moves. We could of been rebuilding now, instead of waste two seasons of the Knicks. You act like two seasons mean nothing. It seems to me you enjoy watching losing. I'm not down with that b, I don't know what team your on here. It seems like whenever I make a post thats against Isiah, you come here flying to save his butt. Thats the only reason why I can question on what team your on. Let me keep it simple. Its idiotic to acquire Stephon Marbury, Jalen Rose, Penny Hardaway, Vin Baker, Jerome James, Maurice Taylor, Steve Francis, Malik Rose, and Tim Thomas over the last 3 years. You know it, I know it. Isiah was trying his best to get this team to the playoffs with those players. Sorry, if you look at the list of guys I just named and think a chance at the playoffs is possible, you're obviously not thinking right. Now I have to sit for two years to wait for Marbury's, Francis and others contracts to expire so we can finally be active in the free agent market and rebuild all over? Hell, how do you know Isiah won't trade those contracts for even longer contracts? Thats why Isiah needs to be gone. He has no direction for this team, and thats been the problem for years. We haven't had direction in a long time. I don't like the direction we're at now, if you're content with the direction, you're not wearing Knicks jersey.

Hind site is 20/20 but do you really think Crawford and Curry are trash players? Do you think we would be winning more games if we had Arisa? Be honest, you weren't jumping for joy when we got Larry Brown? I know I was. Most of NY thought it was a great idea. 43 starting line ups later we saw that we were all wrong. I can't say that Thomas is a good GM because he could have done so much better in many cases. But still I like this team and the core that we now have. I think Curry is one of the best centers in the league and Crawford is one of the best clutch players in the east. I'm not going to get into personal insults so let’s talk b-ball.

This is NY we're talking about. An impatient city. The smartest thing for Thomas to have done is to let all the contracts expire so that we could make a quick run at a franchise player but that was never going to happen. Not in NY when they won’t wins yesterday. He had to bring in new blood. So wave bye to Charlie Ward, Kurt Thomas and Antonio McDyse. And now we have Marbury, Richardson and down the line we brought in Curry and Crawford. These four players are much better than what we had.

I honestly believe if that Chicago felt comfortable that they can win with those guys, that they're not valuable as other people think. Obviously Chicago saw something in these guys that made them feel they wouldn't contribute to a winning Chicago Bulls team. Chicago was right, they're now one of the elite teams in the EAST. With Curry and Crawford, they were one of the worst teams in the NBA. Now we have Curry and Crawford, and we're one of the worst teams in the NBA. They're both talented, but lets not be obvious. They're not winning basketball players.

To tell you the truth, I hated the Brown deal and the Jerome James deal. That summer got worse knowing Isiah traded his draft picks and gave Chicago capsace for Eddy Curry. I knew it was going to be a diaster because the roster at the time wasn't a Larry Brown team, and if you look at Larry Brown's coaching history, the first year of the teams he coaches have a poor year and improve from there. But you saw no improvement fhe Knicks. That roster and Brown will never have worked together, it was a BAD mix and I saw it from the beginning. Now our defense is worse with Isiah has coach. The players seem more happy to be playing under Isiah though. I guess because they're not forced defense as hard as they did with Brown.

Crawford is always playing out of control and is streaky as anyone in the NBA. Curry can score, no question. But averaging over 3 turnovers a game on 16-18 points per game isn't good production. Curry needs to lower down his turnovers and stop making the game easier for other team. Turning the ball over gives the other team more possesions. This what Curry does with his offensive fouling and careless turnovers. He ONLY exerts himself on the offensive scoring end. We are not going to win with him as the centerpiece to this franchise. Crawford does the same with his missed shots and bad shot selection. Especially the 3pt shots which lead to fast breaks for the other team. I want a winning team, having Curry and Crawford as your main options does not equal winning, and it never will. It didn't happending in Chicago, its not happending in New York.

"I'm not going to get into personal insults so let’s talk b-ball." Where have you seen any personal insults? Are you that paranoid man? Take it easy, this thread is all basketball, don't bring that crap here.

NYC is an impantient city. But that has nothing to do with Knick fans. Knick fans want guys who will play hard every night and a winning basketball team.

I don't understand and you never explained your last sentence. What does Marbury, Curry, Crawford as indivuals being better than Kurt Thomas, Antonio McDysess, and Charlie Ward have do with winning? Nothing. Knicks should of kept Antonio McDysess and Ward and let their contracts expire. Instead we open everything up to Phoneix. Marbury, Curry, Crawford being better than them is irrevelant to their value at the time of 2003. In 2003, Phoneix wanted their contracts because it would open up cap space for them. Do you understand that? Explain your last sentences better next time, you really went off track with that one.



Allen, I agree. Diop is younger and a super defender. Especially he has shown improvement physically with all the weight he lost. He's one of the best interior defenders in the NBA, and thats what we lack. Isiah has signed the wrong guys, to the wrong prices.


Is there people here who accually still want to keep Isiah as GM? I honestly feel the people who come here to defend either just want to make an agruement against disappointed Knick fans or they're coming to defend him because they're fans of Isiah Thomas himself.

I'll repeat again, Isiah has no plan. He has no concept of what kind of team he wants to build or how to put the pieces together. Knicks were at a situation before Isiah came as GM with no hope of winning. He greatly worsened the Knicks salary cap. He tries to rebuild the team, after he REALIZES the team is bad. A GM who just drafted the same players as Isiah and did none of his trades would be 2 years FURTHER ahead in bringing the Knicks back to RESPECTABILITY. Listen guys, I really understand Isiah can't change past mistakes and stupid trades, but he should be trying to minimize those mistakes by trading them for either shorter contracts or the same length contracts with additional draft picks. Instead he's People complained about Layden's history in New York, but imagine Isiah hasn't made all that trades. If he hadn't done anything, we would alot of cap space this summer, plus all our youth. Hell, we would be in the draft this season and have a shot at Oden. Please, lawyers of Isiah Thomas in this forum if you can explain why every move Isiah has done helped this team now and the future, I'l stop my disapproval of Isiah. Explain the Francis trade. Explain the Mabury trade. Explain the Jalen Rose trade. Explain the Crawford trade. Explain the Curry trade. Explain the Jerome James signing. Explain the Vin Baker signing. Explain why we didn't draft real PG's like Jarret Jack or Marcus Williams when we had the chance? Now we have career bench players like Nate Robinson and Renaldo Balkman. I really think these group of guys in here are the only people who think Isiah is a good GM. Isiah is the ass of the most people's jokes these days, NYC media, ESPN, the guys on TNT. This results for the lack of respect for the Knicks franchise which I disapprove of.
 

dr.carpy

Benchwarmer
You can excuse Amare, cause he was hurt, but Eddy Curry is inexcuseable even though this is his FIRST time being the focal point on offense. 1 week ago Isiah was by your definition, "A Good Coach". They lose 3 games, and he's an idiot again (Please see the Bozo banner currently being displayed). Good with the bad, youngblood. Yes, Nowitzki is still learning how to rebound. He May be rebounding at 9, but if you watch NBA League Pass, and watched a Dallas game, he rebounds passively. He doesn't fight for tough boards. It seems to be exceptable, that that isn't his game. However, when Curry makes a mistake on offence (most his turnovers are from travelling) it's unexceptable, even though he's only 24, and great centres didn't figure out their footwork till their 30's. That sounds like an unfair double standard. How would you try to stop a half court team? By jacking up shots, or by an effective low post scorer that takes up space. I choose the latter. The Phoenix Suns are the team everyone wants to be during the regular season. BUT, like clockwork the lose in the playoffs. WHY. They can't consistently run a half court offence. For that San Antonio, is eternally grateful. Turnovers are also on the passer. How, if they pass the ball when Eddy is in deep he could catch and score. We have guards that dribble way too much. Eddy has to wait, establish good position and move so he doesn't generate a 3 in the Key. Quicker ball delivery would help him be more effective, as he does not instigate the offense. When Isiah brought Marbury here you like tons of others where estatic. He was a 20 and 8 guy. So, now when that move didn't work out, Isiah's an idiot? Ridiculous. Does anyone here think Isiah brought Marbury here thinking "this will be a great way to lose!" No one normal would. It was idiotic to aquire those players? Those guys got into the playoffs, which seems to be your mandate. As well, turn the page on the following:

Penny Hardaway, Vin Baker and Tim Thomas. We don't pay those guys anymore. At at the end of this year we won't pay Houston, Rose, Anderson, Taylor, and Williams.

No one is content with losing. However, every night some does it! It's a bitch, but that's life in the Real world. Knicks fans are fickle as well, they called for Ewing, Spreewell and Houston's heads as well. With the other Hypethetical trading of Marbury and Francis for longer worse contracts, how do you know this will be the end game? If you can see into the future, I suggest getting the powerball numbers and winning. Just a thought.
 

dr.carpy

Benchwarmer
There's a sucker born every minute. If a team needs a big man. At his salary he's moveable. This is the NBA. If Gheorghe Mureşan could be moved, there's hope!

min fgm-a 3pm-a ftm-a off def tot ast pf st to Bs Pts
P.S. Eddy Curry Sucks: 39:16 11-17 0-0 5-8 2 8 10 0 1 1 2 2 27

so does Crawford 15:00 9-21 0-4 7-7 2 3 5 6 4 2 2 0 25
 
Last edited:

metrocard

Legend
You can excuse Amare, cause he was hurt, but Eddy Curry is inexcuseable even though this is his FIRST time being the focal point on offense. 1 week ago Isiah was by your definition, "A Good Coach". They lose 3 games, and he's an idiot again (Please see the Bozo banner currently being displayed). Good with the bad, youngblood. Yes, Nowitzki is still learning how to rebound. He May be rebounding at 9, but if you watch NBA League Pass, and watched a Dallas game, he rebounds passively. He doesn't fight for tough boards. It seems to be exceptable, that that isn't his game. However, when Curry makes a mistake on offence (most his turnovers are from travelling) it's unexceptable, even though he's only 24, and great centres didn't figure out their footwork till their 30's. That sounds like an unfair double standard. How would you try to stop a half court team? By jacking up shots, or by an effective low post scorer that takes up space. I choose the latter. The Phoenix Suns are the team everyone wants to be during the regular season. BUT, like clockwork the lose in the playoffs. WHY. They can't consistently run a half court offence. For that San Antonio, is eternally grateful. Turnovers are also on the passer. How, if they pass the ball when Eddy is in deep he could catch and score. We have guards that dribble way too much. Eddy has to wait, establish good position and move so he doesn't generate a 3 in the Key. Quicker ball delivery would help him be more effective, as he does not instigate the offense. When Isiah brought Marbury here you like tons of others where estatic. He was a 20 and 8 guy. So, now when that move didn't work out, Isiah's an idiot? Ridiculous. Does anyone here think Isiah brought Marbury here thinking "this will be a great way to lose!" No one normal would. It was idiotic to aquire those players? Those guys got into the playoffs, which seems to be your mandate. As well, turn the page on the following:

Penny Hardaway, Vin Baker and Tim Thomas. We don't pay those guys anymore. At at the end of this year we won't pay Houston, Rose, Anderson, Taylor, and Williams.

No one is content with losing. However, every night some does it! It's a bitch, but that's life in the Real world. Knicks fans are fickle as well, they called for Ewing, Spreewell and Houston's heads as well. With the other Hypethetical trading of Marbury and Francis for longer worse contracts, how do you know this will be the end game? If you can see into the future, I suggest getting the powerball numbers and winning. Just a thought.

Amare is better than Eddy Curry, why are we even comparing these two? You always seem to go off topic, its not even a debate between Curry and Amare. Curry has been in the league longer, and hasn't even made an impact in the NBA. Amare made an impact in the NBA in his 2nd season. Even after one of the most serious injuries in the NBA, he's back at it again. This isn't a comparision, its just you being stupid and just wanting to agrue. Come on man, Eddy Curry and Amare Stoudmire? Whats next, Jamal Crawford and Kobe Bryant? Nate Robinson and Steve Nash? You're not even being a homer, you're just being dumb. There is no reason to compare Amare and Curry.

I've told you son, Isiah is a good player's coach. If you noticed anything, the players seem happy with Isiah, way better than they did with Dick Chaney, Lenny Wilkins, Herb Williams and Larry Brown. Isiah doesn't know how to coach the x and o's. I said Isiah isn't a BAD COACH, he isn't a good coach either. Don't get it twisted, you can't twist my words because I don't pull logic out of my ass like you. I stay on point and consistant. I want the best for my team, and Isiah cannot provide that.

Guy, I've told you, I feel like I'm repeating myself because how you replied didn't say anything. You already said Dirk is "learning" how to rebound". I told you he isn't a banger, but he still manages to get 9 rebounds a game. Dirk rebounds well enough, definately better than Curry, when Curry is always in the paint. I'm not gonna fault Curry though, his rebounding has improved. To say "Dirk is learning how to rebound" makes no sense, and you said again too which is the irony of this. You're going no where with this, you just came out of no where about Dirk's rebounding, when he's top 10 in the NBA every year in rebounding.

Listen, Phoneix just became a good team(Thanks to Thomas), they haven't been around like Dallas or San Antonio. They turned very quickly and advanced to the WCF without Amare. Who knows what they can with Amare now. Its offense, not offence. Amare is a productive half court player, they didn't have Amare last season and it hurt their half court offense.

"We have guards that dribble way too much." Yeh, Isiah acquired those guards. Even when Curry gets quick passes in the post, when he's doubled team he usually always turns it over with an offensive foul or traveling. Curry has been in the league for over 5 years. He's great offensively, he's always been good offensively, but he still can't improve on his flaws of turnovers, defense, and getting beat by his opponents on the boards.

This is possibly the most ignorant thing I ever read on here.

Where did I say I excited about the Marbury trade? You made such an asshead suggestion and guest, its accually the total opposite. I told alot of people Marbury won't save New York, and that Phoneix traded him because he isn't a winning player, and they felt he couldn't be the PG to lead their talented youth.

Ewing, Spreewell and Houston are some of the most respected Knicks in our era, Francis, Marbury and Curry have accomplished nothing in New York. Don't even put those names in the same sentence. You won't make your points like that. We all realize how superior Spree, h20 and Ewing were are compared to the scrubs we have now. Again, you're not being smart.


EXCUSE ME EVERYONE, dr.carpy has officially declared because Curry and Crawford have scored 20 points each against Portland, they should be the face of the New York Knicks franchise for the next 10 years.

It seems like you're always calling out Knick fans, calling us fickle, impatient fans. Sorry if we're not attached to Isiah as you.



what gm in their rite mind is going to take this large tube of lard???


Heh, you almost feel stupid asking that question too. Thats how I feel replying, I didn't know 31 year old bench scrubs had trade value.
 

paris401

Starter
There's a sucker born every minute. If a team needs a big man. At his salary he's moveable. This is the NBA. If Gheorghe Mureşan could be moved, there's hope!

min fgm-a 3pm-a ftm-a off def tot ast pf st to Bs Pts
P.S. Eddy Curry Sucks: 39:16 11-17 0-0 5-8 2 8 10 0 1 1 2 2 27

so does Crawford 15:00 9-21 0-4 7-7 2 3 5 6 4 2 2 0 25


there are teams that need a big man (just gotta look across the river), but i doubt the sucker that would take jerome has been born yet... i guess we'll see over the next 4/6 weeks...
 

metrocard

Legend
there are teams that need a big man (just gotta look across the river), but i doubt the sucker that would take jerome has been born yet... i guess we'll see over the next 4/6 weeks...

I don't think he will ever prove that a team in the NBA has interest in Jerome James.

Hey guys, if you think people like me, Paris, and Sparks are too "negative", then prove us wrong. Prove to us Isiah's moves are helping the Knicks now, and in the future. Good basketball means protecting the ball and not turning it over. Knicks have very few good basketball players. We are fans who have grown tired of Isiah Thomas and the current direction of the team and believe a number of our players should be moved because they are part of the reason we are doing poorly. We accually play hard at somne nights, and our losses have result from mistakes on the basketball court. Turnovers and confusion on defense result in losses. Cap space helps the rebuilding process, look how it helped Denver, Orlando, Chicago, Phoneix and many others. Isiah's direction is far from rebuilding, especially in the first year and half. People say he's rebuilding, but why he did he trade cap space and Trevor Ariza for Francis? He has no direction people.
 

donchris

Next season, keep waiting
I don't think he will ever prove that a team in the NBA has interest in Jerome James.

Hey guys, if you think people like me, Paris, and Sparks are too "negative", then prove us wrong. Prove to us Isiah's moves are helping the Knicks now, and in the future. Good basketball means protecting the ball and not turning it over. Knicks have very few good basketball players. We are fans who have grown tired of Isiah Thomas and the current direction of the team and believe a number of our players should be moved because they are part of the reason we are doing poorly. We accually play hard at somne nights, and our losses have result from mistakes on the basketball court. Turnovers and confusion on defense result in losses. Cap space helps the rebuilding process, look how it helped Denver, Orlando, Chicago, Phoneix and many others. Isiah's direction is far from rebuilding, especially in the first year and half. People say he's rebuilding, but why he did he trade cap space and Trevor Ariza for Francis? He has no direction people.

There is no need to prove you wrong. In some cases you are correct. There have been bad moves, but to say that or insinuate that Curry and Crawford are trash players is ridicules. I've read your and dr carpy going back and fourth and you say he's off topic but you are off topic. You went on a pointless tangent about Amari and how Thomas made the Suns better. How so? By trading Thomas for Richardson? Last I checked Thomas wasn't the key to the Suns offense. Oh that's right, you were looking backwards again commenting on the Marbury trade right. You make your comments personal when you have no point to make or when your flawed logic is pointed out, which is often. I challenge you to do what most of us have done. Make some suggestions on how the Knicks can improve. You've suggested removing Thomas in several posts. Is that the best you can come up with? Who should replace Thomas? Do you have a plan? It's not negative if you make a competent suggestion.
 
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