Thank you Starks. Happy to be the first to reply.
The first thing we must realize is that this situation will be better in time. This is Houston's finally check this year. That in it's self is great news. There are several options for the Knicks. The first was brought to my attention by 15 so I can't take credit for it. Eddie Jones has an expiring contract. We could try to trade Francis for Jones and a draft pick. The Grizzlies need a PG and that may be where Francis can fit in. Many of us have been speculating as to where Garnett will land after this season. An option I've stated before is to trade Frye\Francis\Rose for Garnett, but that won't be the best financial option due to Garnett making 20 M a year.
I've always felt that Marbury is more of a shooting guard but the problem is he is the best point guard on the team. Although our guard roster is flooded we should trade out some guards for a starting PG like Luke Ridnour. Ridnour barely fits in to the line up as Seattle is looking to make changes.
So here are my suggestions:
Francis for Eddie Jones (15's suggestion)
Francis/Frye/Rose for Garnett
Nate Robinson for Luke Ridnour
We could pull off two of the three choices I've presented. I'd like to see a line up of
Ridnour
Marbury
Richardson
Granett
Curry
no trades, no huge signings. let contracts expire and get some picks. teams like orlando and utah got where they are by being frugal, drafting well, and rebuilding.
There's only one thing wrong with your suggestion.... It's stupid and unrealistic. You don't post anything useful so it is a smack in the face to think that any one would copy any thing from you and use and put it to good use. I'm talking about adding one or two key players. You are talking about gutting the whole team. Your plan is worse that Thomas'.
The word for the day is "CHEMISTRY". We have solid players so gutting the team as you've suggested is a bad bad move and one typical of some one that does not know the team. Sorry buddy, try try again. You posted so much B.S. I don't know where to begin.
First your title.
"Players who should be on the trade block, but have little value, due to their contracts." What? This makes no sense. So they have little value because of their contracts but you want them on the trading block?
Question. HOW ARE YOU GOING TO TRADE THEM IF THEY HAVE LITTLE VALUE DUE TO THEIR CONTRACTS?
"Little value due to their contracts."
"Little value due to their contracts." I had to post it twice so you can see the inconsistency in your statement. The title in it's self contradicts your trade and makes the trade idea pointless. Dr. Carpy the English major must be shaking his head right now. I'm starting to think you may have A.D.D. but I could be wrong.
Second
The Johan Petro/Danny Fortson trade is just not good. That's all I can say about it. It sucks!
Third
Memphis trades: Eddie Jones\Jake Tsakalidis. This looks familiar. Ever heard of plagiarism? Yeah you added Jake Tsakalidis for Knicks trash time but still a failed attemt to create an original thought.
Forth
The forth option was by far the best of every thing you had to offer, which isn't saying much considering but I am trying to give you some credit here.
Marbury/Robinson
Jones/Garcia
Artest/Jefferies/Williamson
Lee/Balkman/Fortson
Curry/Petro/Tsakalidis
This time you did not gut the whole team. YEAH WAY TO GO KID! Although I would not have gone with Petro, Tsakalidis or Garcia. Nor is it realistic because no one is going to pick up James. So in your failed attempt to make me look "stupid", you have just exposed your own stupidity. However in fairness you should be given credit for actually coming up with a constructive idea. Although most of your ideas belong to some one else and the one you did come up with sucks.
Grade= D- Nice try.
BTW...I forgot my most important transaction of all of them. FIRE ISIAH THOMAS. I would make it embarassing as possible. Put him in the center of the Knicks court, and have thousands of New Yorkers throw pop corn at him. Then drop him off in the South Bronx on University Ave and let him have his ways with Bloods. eace: :smokin: :thumbsup: :beer:
I guess you can't take critism too well.
What you did was NBA Live 2006 trades. You can't prove to me why Minnesota would take Steve Francis, Rose, and Fyre for Garnett. Why would Seattle take Robinson for Ridnour straight up? Ridnour is their starter, Robinson isn't even starting. Ridnour does everything better than Robinson as a PG, why would they want to degrade? The only good idea you presented was my idea I already presented a long time ago.
You're talking about an unrealstic deal, Minnesota doesn't Francis. They have Mike James, Randy Foye, Hudson, Jaric, Rashad McCants. They have enough combo guards my silly friend. Are you that angry that you even think normally anymore? Be logically and reasonable. That trade doesn't favor Minnesota at all. I expected bad from you, but you're really getting worse.
Nah, this isn't Seseme Street, there is no word of the day. and Chemistry? We have none, so what we will lose? You act like we have chemistry right now. We having chemistry to lose a game, sure. We would lose NOTHING. There is no chemistry. We average alot of turnovers, looked confused on offense and defense. Solid players? We need great PLAYERS, but we can't obtain great players first, we need expiring contracts and cap space to sign great players like Steve Nash or Ben Wallace. Phoneix and Chicago did this when Isiah gave them Cap Space. I'm trying to go that direction. Most of the players on this roster are medicore, we can't be solid, I'm aiming for a higher standard. This is why you're an Isiahsexual and I'm a opportunist Knick fan. We need to start capitalizing and stop being the ass of every joke in the NBA thanks to Isiah/Dolan/Cablevision terrible front office decisions.
Another insult, you're ignorant and angry now. You can't discuss basketball without insulting me. You feel your intelligence is challenged so you have to be that low now? Atleast you'll end up getting banned for a week, we definately don't need your garbage around here.
Listen, typing in CAPS doesn't prove your point. It never will. I think you can go a month on here without proving your points right, cause you and Carpy continue to show frustration throughout your post.
I'm open to co-sign with anyone in this forum. I even co-signed with you, even though you copied my Francis to Memphis idea. I don't hold a beef with you like you hold with me. You seem motivated when you post against me trying to prove yourself, but you fail everytime showing ignorance, frustration and hate.
Accually it makes perfect sense. Just because the contract has little value doesn't make the players bad. Lets be honest, Stephon Marbury and Francis are still very talented PG's and can start on alot of teams in the NBA. The problem is they don't fit on the Knicks, and they're not easy to trade because not every GM in the NBA is Isiah Thomas. So in order to trade them, the talent has to be lopsided, with the Knicks getting less talent in return, and the other team getting Marbury. This is when you attack expiring contracts of bench players like Croshere, Williamson, Fortston, Stackhouse, etc and etc. Do you understand? You probably won't, sicne you're so fast to disagree with me and not co-sign. If you look at the trades I did, Jamal Crawford is obviously a superior talent compared to Johan Petro/Fortson. But we need to subtract in order to get under the cap.
Your agruement the Fortson/Johan Petro trade sucks? Thats it? Thats your agruement? It sucks? Its a good trade for Seattle, they get more talent and dept, Knicks get more cap space and decent back up center for Curry. We needed a shot blocker anyway, if you don't like this deal you're not a Knicks fan.
plagiarism?, I'm sorry for cursing, but this is how I truely feel, and I gotta let the New Yorker out of me now. Are you fucking STUPID? I've been had the Francis to Memphis idea for almost a year now, even before I came here I had that idea. My first POST on this forum. Check it out. http://www.knicksonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2933 , I mention Francis to Memphis, if anyone is plagiarising its you. And when I made the first post in this thread, I didn't even read your post. You're just hating on me now, which is pathetic.
You're really embarassing, especially knowing your a Knick fan. You show no class in your post, all you do is insult people. I never seen you talk purely about basketball.
What is with you and not gutting the team? Is it against your religion to see the Knicks franchise start a fresh new page? You don't understand. For the last 3 years, we've been the worst team in the NBA. Do you see Chicago with Crawford Chandler, and Curry now? NO. Do you see Chicago with Jason Williams? No. They decided to keep Hinrich, draft Deng, Gordon, sign Nicioni, and Wallace. Now they're contenders in the Eastern Conference. They kept a core player in Hinrich and built from there. Thats what we could do. We have Lee, everyone else is tradable. We have no chemsitry now, we're not a winning basketball team now. Why not start fresh now? What are we waiting for? Do we need to keep Francis for another 2-3 years? Same with Marbury, James, Rose, Crawford and etc? No. I don't want to be medicore for 3 years straight. I don't mind sucking for a year, but having hope because they'll be cap space.
But then again, you don't know how to explain yourself. You just go off like "OMG YOU IDIOT YOUR TRADE IDEAS SUCK, HOW ARE YOU GOING TO TRADE MARBURY CRAWFORD FRANCIS JAMES YOU CAN'T GUT THIS TEAM.". Why not have Petro, Garica or Jake? They're insurance players and good reserves who can defend the basket. Why not be deep? You don't want the Knicks to improve or you just don't want to agree with me?
Heres a tip, stop typing in caps. Stop throwing insults, cause you're only talking about yourself when you call people stupid or an idiot. When you want to explain yourself saying "It sucks" isn't good enough, probably in the Carolinas, but not in NYC kid.
I think you just tried your hardest to oppose my views, where ever I go. I could be right, but you just like to agrue. I don't even think you follow the Knicks. You just log on this site just to agrue against what I text. I could say the American flag is red white and blue, but you'll agrue its green yellow and purple. Its gotten ridiculous to the point I don't even take your post seriously. I just lay down some knowledge for myself and the Knicks fan base.
Haha, you're giving me credit now? This is just proves how valid my points are when you're forced to give me credit. I love how you can't live with giving me credit and you had to take the credit away saying I didn't think of these ideas, but someone else did. Hey, since you can't prove anything else you said in this thread, or in the other threads, try to prove these are someone elses ideas. I want exactly the same post too. Word for word.
Once again, my bad for cursing earlier, but what you said I couldn't let go, thats how bad it was. I don't even curse against Dr. Carpy, and his post are really bad. I mean he spends more time talking about his made up offline life how he's the King of Canada, has a wife, money, college degrees than basketball. Atleast you don't talk about smoking crack or start typing in a different language, I'm guessing carpy thinks he's still in Jamaica. :teeth: . Hey jokes, don't get offended. Be HAPPY, stop being so frustrated all the time when you post.
Most of the things I've read on this thread are what I call "shake ups". I'm not saying any of them are wrong but I don't want any more shakeups. The past 7 years have been shakeups so why do we need another one? I liked seth's idea...just let everything expire and pile up picks. That's the best idea I've seen on here. Everything else is too radical. If you change everything like what most people have done on this site then you're going to do more harm than good. We are on the right track. So why fire everybody and trade everybody just so we can be under the cap? We'll be under the cap soon enough. Let's keep the rooks and sophs. Frye doesn't have all-star potential? Then why is it all NBA teams were trying to aquire him last year? Why were analysts saying he would be ROY runner up if he didn't get hurt? I'm not a big fan of Frye but I realize what he can do...he can shoot the rock. We can teach him the mentality to rebound. And the don is on to something. Chemistry is the word of the day. How are we ever going to gain chemistry if we take on the radical movements in this thread? Believe it or not we are gaining somewhat of a chemistry but any of these silly trades would ruin it. The upgrade of Curry's game, the minutes distribution, and just the mentality of the team will be ruined. If everyone thinks they are on the trading block then how will they're play translate on the court? If we are going to make trades like GMs you must think like one. Trust me I would know...the GM skills runs in the fam. My plan will be revealed shortly...I'm too busy right now to post one but you will hear my theory soon...
Don't try to play the victim. Man up. Any one can read your replies in the last few weeks. Any thing my self, Dr Carpy or The 1 and only have posted you have trashed with personal attacks so stop crying like a bitch. You couldn't post your unoriginal thought with out mentioning my name like a little bitch so you get ethered. Sense you say you're from N.Y. allow me to quote Mr. Pdiddy. "Take that, take that!"
The Francis idea was not your own. I personally spoke to 15 and referenced him in my post. In all honesty, Francis for any one could be called unrealistic. Jones comes off the books next year. That's money off the cap for the Grizzlies. It would be in their best bet to keep him. How ever they may want to bring in talent and can bring in some one more talented then Francis. That deal is every bit as realistic or unrealistic as the Garnett deal. Look into Garnett's contract. He can opt out of it and has a say so as to were he wants to play just like A.I. There has been hype for the last three years that Garnett would land in N.Y., so the idea is not that far fetched.
What is it with me and gutting the team? It's a bad idea. You can't just throw players in together and expect them to play well. If that was the case then the Hornets would be a # 4 seed and the Heat would be on their 4th championship but that's not the case. I'm tired of people saying we could have gotten Artest. Artest is a problem child. He's been a problem every were he's gone and after one year the Kings want no more of him. The Knicks do not need some one elses problems. We've got enough of our own.
In short, grow up. Let's try to stop the back and forth bitching. We can disagree in a respectful manor. Dr.Carpy and I don't always agree but I'm not coming up her calling him names and then question why he responds after being provoked. Stay on topic or I will ether you again.
Most of the things I've read on this thread are what I call "shake ups". I'm not saying any of them are wrong but I don't want any more shakeups. The past 7 years have been shakeups so why do we need another one? I liked seth's idea...just let everything expire and pile up picks. That's the best idea I've seen on here. Everything else is too radical. If you change everything like what most people have done on this site then you're going to do more harm than good. We are on the right track. So why fire everybody and trade everybody just so we can be under the cap? We'll be under the cap soon enough. Let's keep the rooks and sophs. Frye doesn't have all-star potential? Then why is it all NBA teams were trying to aquire him last year? Why were analysts saying he would be ROY runner up if he didn't get hurt? I'm not a big fan of Frye but I realize what he can do...he can shoot the rock. We can teach him the mentality to rebound. And the don is on to something. Chemistry is the word of the day. How are we ever going to gain chemistry if we take on the radical movements in this thread? Believe it or not we are gaining somewhat of a chemistry but any of these silly trades would ruin it. The upgrade of Curry's game, the minutes distribution, and just the mentality of the team will be ruined. If everyone thinks they are on the trading block then how will they're play translate on the court? If we are going to make trades like GMs you must think like one. Trust me I would know...the GM skills runs in the fam. My plan will be revealed shortly...I'm too busy right now to post one but you will hear my theory soon...
wow im actually going to say this.. after reading these posts im GLAD Isiah is our GM haha. Ugly suggestions so far (except the one Chris took from me haha) and wouldnt make sense for either team logic wise OR SALARY WISE!
we have to face the facts. we are not going to be under the cap UNTIL the year LeBron goes back on free agency. and who in free agency is SOOO GOOD that we should dump our roster and semicornerstones for? NO ONE UNTIL LEBRON.
This coming season, Taylor, JRose, Houston, Anderson, JYD all come off the books. that brings us down from 136M to 86M. 50m drop. good right?
We also have a first round pick, second round pick, new MLE.
You have to realize the Knicks are not going to trade away everyone and their mother and rightfully so. We need to build chemistry. And a Curry/Frye/Lee/Jeffries/Balkman/Crawford/Q/Marbury pieced team is the way to do that. Like it or not. HATE ISIAH OR NOT. that team is putting up Wins or quality games. keep building that chemistry.
Now as for expandable I think Steve, Nate, JJ (obviously), even Malik and Collins are. I like Malik and think he has a good leadership quality (as well his expiring contract after this season).
If we could and its probably unlikely we should trade Steve and our second rounder to Memphis for Eddie Jones and their first rounder. Maybe throw in Nate & Malik together if they add Stromile Swift.
now if we stay put at deadline and head into offseason. with a hopefully healthy Francis ship him to Minny with Frye and Malik for Garnett mind as well. hell expire before LeBrons free agency bid anyhow. If we dont do that, sign a Defensive C in the offseason. Make a run at Mourning. or hell even Magloire.
I know we arent an incredible team but i think the way to fix the knicks is to JUST RELAX. well that and ship out Steve Francis or somehow rid ourselves of him. haha.
The past 7 years have been shakeups so why do we need another one? Why would want to still be a bad team? You just proved my agruement. We've been terrible the last 5 years, why must we wait 2 other years to wait for cap relief? How do you know Isiah won't trade those expiring contracts for even longer contracts? Isiah has shown no interest in cap relief at all. You guys have too much hope and faith in Isiah, even after all the bad decisions he has made.
More harm than good? We're subtracting cancer players who are turnover prone, over dribble and take bad shot selections for key veterans who have expiring contracts.
"We'll be under the cap soon enough", No we won't be under the cap this year or the year after that. Theres nothing WRONG with trading everybody, everyone on this team is tradable except David Lee. Chicago traded alot of people, got under cap relief as soon as possible, and look at where they're at now. You don't waste two seasons in the NBA, that is embarassing.
Fyre does not have All star potential. He's very SOFT, very SOFT, if you call Dirk soft, Fyre has to one of the softest big men in the NBA. We've seen it with our own eyes, when his jumper isn't going down, his offensive game is weak. He's a poor rebounder and defender. Shot blocker? Ha, Fyre is a very poor help defender/man on man defender. Fyre is one of the best jump shooting big men in the NBA, but thats all he can be really. What will it take for you guys to realize that? It seems like whenever we have a rookie, you guys over do it. I've seen people call Fyre a Tim Duncan close or Trevor Ariza the next T-Mac. Stop the hype, it doesn't prove anything. Watch the game. Fyre's one dementional, he's going to be a solid player. Nothing more. All the NBA teams were trying to acquire Fyre last year? Can you prove this? I know IND want a bite at Fyre, can I get some sorces or are you just saying something ridiculous vague to prove your point?
These trades are silly, but you still haven't posted yours up yet. Remember, I clearly explain all my trades, I told you guys my direction. I believe I explained my deals the best, and people who want to be stubborn will probably insult me and ignore that.
Are you DonChris now? Don't be his hypeman, Chemistry isn't the word of the day. We not have it. We can't win games with loser players
Curry is a loser player, look at his track record
Marbury is a loser player, look at his track record
Crawford is a loser player, look at his track record
Francis is a loser player, look at his track record
I could go on on, we need a change. Theres nothing radical about those moves. They're moves to help the cap room, and we still get to keep a good young core of players(like I already stated). Isiah's moves the last 3 years were RADICAL, why can't you admit to that? Why does Isiah get the free gun shot to make radical moves, but when we suggest trading cancers for expiring contracts we get looked down for it?
We have to realize something. Just because you layout a 4 page report on something doesn't make it Grade A material. And how did I prove your arguement...you didn't explain that real well. I'm only going to respond to the statements that I can actually argue because some of your points are obviously right and some of them are obviously wrong and I'm not going to waste my time.
"More harm than good? We're subtracting cancer players who are turnover prone, over dribble and take bad shot selections for key veterans who have expiring contracts."
Yes more harm than good. It's great that you're subtracting "cancer" players on our team but like what I've said a million times when you trade players excessively (like your plan and some others) you destroy chemistry and you set us back even further. You think we suck now? Let's do your plan and you will set us so far back...when it's time for free agents to come, no one would want to come to a garbage team like ours because you've traded almost the entire supporting cast. When you realized that you messed up a piece of the puzzle....you don't destroy the entire puzzle and start from scratch. You only displace the error. Nothing radical, nothing crazy. That's the logical thing to do. You don't trade someone because you don't like the guy or you don't fire the guy because you think he's doing a bad job. If he has a plan and you can look down the tunnel and see a glimpse of light, then you keep the guy. THESE ARE RADICAL MOVEMENTS. I really don't know any other way to say it. When you want to blow up the entire team....that sounds radical to me lol. I can agree to disagree tho.
"Fyre does not have All star potential. He's very SOFT, very SOFT, if you call Dirk soft, Fyre has to one of the softest big men in the NBA."
I can't believe you just said that man. The guy has been in the league for 2 years and you don't think he has all-star potential? Aren't judging a lil prematurely? He's already a great jump shooting big guy...other pieces of his game can be tought. We all thought Eddy was going to be garbage but look at him now. Come on now we have to think logical.
Dirk IS the softest big man in the NBA. He posts up smaller fowards to the free throw line or so and shoots directly over them. Bruce Bowen pushed him off the block! And you're putting frye and dirk in the same sentence in a sense of being soft? Don't get me wrong...Frye isn't a rugged power foward that is a beast but he's no Dirk. He doesn't have as much talent as Dirk yet but he's not even close to being soft like Dirk. We've seen Frye in the post more times than dirk and dirk plays more minutes than frye. Dirk could win MVP this year and he's a great player. But he's soft. S-O-F-T! Marshmellow, powderpuff soft! And thats what barkley said lol.
And I don't really remember when we hyped Ariza into being T-Mac. I'mma need some proof on that lol. In fact, I don't remember the last rookie we hyped up since Frye. Everyone thinks a rookie is going to do well but that's being optimistic. I've heard the Frye and Duncan comparison. But that doesn't mean he's going to be as good as duncan they just have similar games in certain aspects. Read between the lines.
"Shot blocker? Ha, Fyre is a very poor help defender/man on man defender." (referring to frye)
Let me bust out some stats for you....let's start from the beginning. He's starts off very poor in blocks with just 1 block in his first 4 games. But look at the following....3 blocks in Denver, 1 in houston in 18 minutes, then his minutes fluctuate but as of late this is the statline in blocks....4,2,2,0,0,1,01,0,3,1....that's not the best but that is potential if you want to believe it or not. Too judge so harshly on a 2nd year player is foolish. Look how Lee strectched his range on his jumper...he improved rather quickly didn't he?
And you don't believe me when I said everyone wanted frye? Here's my proof....http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/story/391251p-331880c.html enjoy it.
"Isiah's moves the last 3 years were RADICAL, why can't you admit to that?"
Didn't I admit that when I said the past 7 years were shakeups? lol And this is the reason why I believe another shakeup or radical movement would put us more into the hole. You're plan is radical, you have to face that man. It's radical and this team doesn't need to go through that. I think the past 7 years speak for itself.
It's obvious we're on opposite sides of the spectrum on this matter. But I respect your opinion...I just don't agree to it tho.
One way to look at how a GM might artfully address the problem of acquiring a Gold Medal Superstar or even a Silver Medal Superstar and building a championship team is to look at the two greatest GMs in NBA history: Red Auerbach and Jerry West. The teams they built account for 24 of the 50 NBA titles since 1956. Their genius was constantly thinking several years ahead to put the Celtics and the Lakers in position to get a Gold Medal Superstar or a Silver Medal Superstar. They were unwilling to tank, per se, and always wanted to field contenders, but they were willing to sacrifice in the near term, to assume great risks, to increase the chances of getting a superstar down the road. They were patient, willing to wait for the right moment to make a deal and then they pounced on it. They knew that they needed superstars to win titles and that drove everything they did as GM.
Red Auerbach lucked into Bob Cousy. But he traded away two all-stars for Bill Russell, because he alone saw that Russ would revolutionize the game. Then in 1962 he stole John Havlicek at the end of the first round because Hondo was planning to play pro football. Red rolled the dice that Hondo would not cut it in the NFL and he won. He got lucky that when the Cs dipped after Russell’s retirement, the NBA had a deep draft and he was able to get Dave Cowens fourth overall in 1970, behind Maravich, Lanier and Tomjanovich. Cowens was the best of the bunch. In 1978 Red drafted Bird sixth in the first round because he was willing to wait a year before Bird would enter the NBA. Imagine that! Five teams drafted players like Purvis Short and Rick Robey rather than wait one year on a talent like Bird. Incredible. Then in the mid-80s Red saw that the Bird era was nearing an end. He traded a starting point guard off his returning 1984 championship team – Gerald Henderson—to Seattle for a 1986 no. 1 pick. That took cajones. The pick turned into the no. 2 pick overall—Len Bias. Had Bias lived … those are the three most depressing words in the English language to Celtics fans.
Jerry West
Jerry West is every bit Red’s equal. He traded mediocre players like Don Ford (huhhh??) to impatient teams for distant future no. 1 picks that became the first picks overall in 1979 and 1982 – Magic and James Worthy. Then he systematically cleared cap space in the mid-90s because he knew Shaq would leave Orlando only for LA. And he traded a quality starting NBA center entering his prime, Vlade Divacs, for a high school guard taken in the mid-first round, Kobe Bryant. No one ever thought much of drafting guards out of high school… until Jerry West.
Then, when West moved to Memphis in 2003, he came within a whisker of getting the first pick overall in the draft – what would have been LeBron James. Had West gotten James, teamed him with Gasol, and had all the time he needed to find complementary pieces, we may well have seen a team that would win 5-8 titles by 2020, if not more. West would be bigger than Elvis in Memphis and unquestionably the dominant figure in the history of the league and the sport. But, alas, West lost in the lottery and the Memphis pick was conveyed to the Pistons, who picked Darko second overall ahead of Anthony, Bosh and Wade.
Now to some extent the Red-West approach is more difficult today because teams put lottery-protections on traded first rounders to prevent their losing a superstar. But three key rules have emerged: First: accumulate marketable assets so you can trade the surplus talent for future no. 1 picks. It means you had better draft well and be a good judge of talent. Eventually, if you are lucky you might get a chance to draft a potential superstar. This also keeps the payroll lower in the meantime.
Second, try to get underneath the cap so you can strike for a quality free agent; i.e. do not waste long-term MLE-or-higher contracts on mediocre veterans unless you already have your Gold Medal Superstar or Silver Medal Superstar and are a serious contender, and the costly veteran player can be the difference to get you a flag. Do not blow cap space unless you are a contender or unless you are using your capspace on a superstar or a potential superstar, like Steve Nash, Ben Wallace or Gilbert Arenas. This second commandment means that teams that have no hope to contend should not be clogging the payroll with $30 million five year MLE deals on journeymen veterans every year. If a team has significant capspace it has to be willing to keep it for a season or two and wait for the right deal to come along. Don’t be pressured into blowing it.
Third, be patient. Very patient. Impatience dooms any hope for success.
For a while it looked like Jerry West had lost 20 mph off his GM fastball when he lost out in the LeBron sweepstakes after moving to the hapless Grizzlies in 2002-03. Don’t get me wrong: he did a terrific job turning a terrible team into a playoff team in short order, but he had only one possible superstar, Pau Gasol, and no hope of ever contending in the rugged western conference. He wasted valuable capspace on mediocrities like Brian Cardinal. It seemed like West was content to win 45-50 games and make the play-offs. He no longer was playing for all the marbles.
But this summer it looks like West has rediscovered his championship mojo. Coming off a 49 win season he has basically blown the team up. He understands that Paul Gasol will not provide enough superstar firepower on his own to win a title, even if Gasol becomes an all-NBA performer, which he may. So West traded solid veteran Shane Battier for Rudy Gay, who, unlike Battier, has the potential to be a superstar. Gay probably won’t become one, but the possibility is there, as much as it was for any player in the 2006 draft. (This was a smart trade for Houston, too. They already have their superstar in Yao Ming and his sidekick in McGrady. What they need is to get them healthy and now they have a superb complementary team player entering his prime in Battier.)
West has also moved to create massive cap space next summer, which is directly out of his long-term playbook. It looks like West is even willing to dip into the 07 lottery if need be to come up with a much stronger core, and a potential superstar. The 07 draft looks to be one of the best in the past decade. The talent is so young it is not clear if we have another 1984 or 2003, but it is possible. West understands that Memphis’s marginal playoff team of the past few seasons will not cut the mustard, cannot hope to win a title, and it needed radical changes. Lots of GMs would not have the courage or foresight to do that. They would have settled for 50 wins and incremental improvement. Will it work? Who knows? The only thing certain is that the other option definitely would not have produced a flag. And a year from now Memphis team with Gasol, Gay, a high lotto pick in a deep draft and a big ticket free agent could be very interesting.
The Red-West approach still is the only program that makes any sense, short of lucking into a LeBron James. But it takes more skill than ever. And it takes a boatload of luck. Two teams that recently showed this artistry were Phoenix and Chicago. Not surprisingly, their GMs are among the most respected in the NBA. For starters, these are two teams that systematically created cap space while patiently building talented young teams. They were able to use the cap space to acquire Steve Nash and Ben Wallace. But that is just the beginning.
Coming off a 62-20 season in the summer of 2005, Phoenix already had Nash, Marion and Stoudemire. Rather than sign Joe Johnson to a huge deal and put the Suns in luxury tax land, the Suns traded him to the Hawks for Boris Diaw and the Hawks no. 1 in 2007 (top 3 protected) or 2008 (unprotected). This looked like a surprising willingness by a contender to field a weaker team in the near term – Diaw’s play last season came as a great surprise. But look where the Suns are: if the Hawks provide them with a high lotto pick in 07 or 08 it has a chance to become a very special player, even a superstar. The Suns look to be a 55 plus win team without that pick for years – with it they could become a champion, and a contender for a decade. Perhaps even a dynasty. Red tips his hat. Maybe this is why West decided to go back to the drawing board in Memphis.
Chicago faced a similar dilemma with Eddy Curry, a superb offensive center who is average otherwise. Rather than sign him to a huge cap-clogging deal that would have still left the Bulls short of a needed superstar, the Bulls traded him to the Knicks for a 2006 no. 1 and the right to swap no. 1 picks in 2007. This, in effect, meant that the Bulls were conceding that they would not improve much or at all in 2006 over 2005. That took guts because the Bulls went from 23 to 47 wins from 04 to 05 and were regarded as a team on the immediate rise. Impatient fans and pundits were chomping on the bit for immediate glory. But it was also a team that lacked a Gold Medal Superstar, or a viable candidate to become one. The 2006 pick became Tyrus Thomas, and the jury is out on him, but he possesses intriguing talent. The 2007 pick will likely be in the lottery, possibly the top half of the lottery. Moreover, the trade meant the Bulls stayed beneath the salary cap to be able to sign Ben Wallace, and the Bulls may possibly remain under the cap in the summer of 07. This trade could be the difference between the Bulls having a very nice young team with many very good players to becoming a team that can win titles.
Few teams think like this, as far as I can tell. Or at least few fans and fewer pundits. Consider the Boston Celtics, the team I follow. The fans there are desperate, as is star player Paul Pierce, to have a winner, to see basketball in May, not to mention June. Danny Ainge has done a nice job of assembling many talented young players, though it is unlikely there are any Gold Medal Superstars in the mix. By all rights the team needs at least two seasons before it can be a 50 win team, and even that would be soon in view of the team’s youth. Pundits and Boston sportswriters almost universally implore Danny Ainge to trade away talented young players and draft choices so the team can fill needs with reliable veterans and win more in the near term. (See, for example: http://www.milforddailynews.com/sportsColumnists/view.bg?articleid=97348&format=text) “You have to get good before you can get great, so the sooner you get good, the sooner you can get great,” the logic goes.
Danny’s dilemma is similar to that of many teams. He has drafted brilliantly and has a nice core, and if he trades one or two kids and no. 1 picks for vets and signs MLE free agents every year for 5 year $30 million deals, he can probably get a 50 win team. He’ll have the Boston sportswriters like Peter May hooting and hollering in excitement like a 12 year old boy watching his first porno film. But unless Al Jefferson or Gerald Green or Sebastian Telfair becomes a Gold Medal Superstar – highly unlikely, in my view – there is no chance of racking up a title in that approach.
Fortunately Danny has ignored them so far, because this approach would simply give short term improvement at the expense of stripping the team of valuable long-term assets and adding more salary to the payroll. This is what the pre-Ainge Celtics did when they traded, in effect, rookie Chauncey Billups, soon-to-be no. 1 pick Shawn Marion and rookie Joe Johnson in three idiotic trades for grizzled and mediocre veterans Kenny Anderson, Vitaly Potapenko and Rodney Rogers. The deals filled needs in the near term, made the team slightly better, and left the franchise a mess for years.
I believe Ainge actually gets it – he has accumulated draft choices, he has stockpiled talented young players with real market value for trades, and he looks to be clearing cap space for two of three years down the road if need be -- but he is under considerable pressure to produce right now. The truly gutsy thing for Ainge to do goes entirely against the grain of the conventional wisdom: it would be to trade away one or two of his more marketable young players, those he thinks have inflated value, for future no. 1 picks. The idea is not to tank, but to try to win with Pierce and the remaining kids and hope to use someone else’s lottery picks to locate a superstar. (As General Patton told the troops just before D-Day: You don’t become a hero by dying for your country. You become a hero by making the enemy die for his country.) And if it takes another year for the Celtics to escape the lottery, that is not the worst thing on earth if the young players are playing and developing. Especially in 2007.
To do this would take guts. It would require smart and brave owners. It would involve tremendous risk and possibly leave the team weaker in the near term and even in the long term. Peter May would go on a hunger strike until Ainge was fired. But is would also open the possibility for the Celtics to get the sort of player who can lead this team to the finals, and to victory. Unless Ainge is willing to take risks like these, I don’t see how the fine young team he is assembling plays basketball in June. Not with Mr. James and Mr. Wade and Mr. Howard and the Bulls holding forth in the eastern conference for the next decade.
Let’s face it, probably 26 or 27 NBA teams will not win titles in the next decade. The odds are terrible. Lots of these teams will be really talented and really good, and some will be outstanding, like the recent Sacramento Kings. If a team wants to exit those ranks and actually win a title, it needs to go against the conventional wisdom and take supreme risks, it has to do so artfully, and it needs a lot of luck. Fortunately for the brave GM, not many NBA GMs are taking that approach right now. Patience is a virtue they believe they cannot afford. The short term pressures make it rational to pursue a policy that strongly reduces the chance for the team to get a Gold Medal Superstar and to win an NBA title.
Is your team playing to win?