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Thread: The thread to end them all: Post your plan to fix Knicks here

  1. #16
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    wow im actually going to say this.. after reading these posts im GLAD Isiah is our GM haha. Ugly suggestions so far (except the one Chris took from me haha) and wouldnt make sense for either team logic wise OR SALARY WISE!

    we have to face the facts. we are not going to be under the cap UNTIL the year LeBron goes back on free agency. and who in free agency is SOOO GOOD that we should dump our roster and semicornerstones for? NO ONE UNTIL LEBRON.

    This coming season, Taylor, JRose, Houston, Anderson, JYD all come off the books. that brings us down from 136M to 86M. 50m drop. good right?

    We also have a first round pick, second round pick, new MLE.

    You have to realize the Knicks are not going to trade away everyone and their mother and rightfully so. We need to build chemistry. And a Curry/Frye/Lee/Jeffries/Balkman/Crawford/Q/Marbury pieced team is the way to do that. Like it or not. HATE ISIAH OR NOT. that team is putting up Wins or quality games. keep building that chemistry.

    Now as for expandable I think Steve, Nate, JJ (obviously), even Malik and Collins are. I like Malik and think he has a good leadership quality (as well his expiring contract after this season).

    If we could and its probably unlikely we should trade Steve and our second rounder to Memphis for Eddie Jones and their first rounder. Maybe throw in Nate & Malik together if they add Stromile Swift.

    now if we stay put at deadline and head into offseason. with a hopefully healthy Francis ship him to Minny with Frye and Malik for Garnett mind as well. hell expire before LeBrons free agency bid anyhow. If we dont do that, sign a Defensive C in the offseason. Make a run at Mourning. or hell even Magloire.

    I know we arent an incredible team but i think the way to fix the knicks is to JUST RELAX. well that and ship out Steve Francis or somehow rid ourselves of him. haha.

  2. #17
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    Originally Posted by donchris
    Don't try to play the victim. Man up. Any one can read your replies in the last few weeks. Any thing my self, Dr Carpy or The 1 and only have posted you have trashed with personal attacks so stop crying like a bitch. You couldn't post your unoriginal thought with out mentioning my name like a little bitch so you get ethered. Sense you say you're from N.Y. allow me to quote Mr. Pdiddy. "Take that, take that!"
    The Francis idea was not your own. I personally spoke to 15 and referenced him in my post. In all honesty, Francis for any one could be called unrealistic. Jones comes off the books next year. That's money off the cap for the Grizzlies. It would be in their best bet to keep him. How ever they may want to bring in talent and can bring in some one more talented then Francis. That deal is every bit as realistic or unrealistic as the Garnett deal. Look into Garnett's contract. He can opt out of it and has a say so as to were he wants to play just like A.I. There has been hype for the last three years that Garnett would land in N.Y., so the idea is not that far fetched.
    What is it with me and gutting the team? It's a bad idea. You can't just throw players in together and expect them to play well. If that was the case then the Hornets would be a # 4 seed and the Heat would be on their 4th championship but that's not the case. I'm tired of people saying we could have gotten Artest. Artest is a problem child. He's been a problem every were he's gone and after one year the Kings want no more of him. The Knicks do not need some one elses problems. We've got enough of our own.

    In short, grow up. Let's try to stop the back and forth bitching. We can disagree in a respectful manor. Dr.Carpy and I don't always agree but I'm not coming up her calling him names and then question why he responds after being provoked. Stay on topic or I will ether you again.
    No one is playing victim. You can't discuss basketball, so you insult people. I never said anything personal to you in this until you came to attack me. You're only one who's crying. You seem very frustrated, I wonder if you have emotional problems offline, but thats not my problem. You would have to deal with that yourself.

    The Garnett idea isn't far fetched? Why would Minnesota want any part of Malik Rose or Fyre? First of all, they don't get cap space with this deal. 2nd, Fyre isn't a player that can come close to replacing what Garnett does in Minnesota. Chicago has the assets to get Garnett because they have expiring contracts and the talent to obtain him. Why would Minnesota want to degrade, have more cap space and degrade in talent? Its a dumb trade prosposal, I'm not even saying it to bring you down, mostly everybody in every basketball forum on the internet would agree you're totally wrong. You have to be very stubborn and ignorant to disagree.

    There has been hype every top star in the NBA would land in New York, its NEW YORK not Charlotte. From Lebron to Vince Carter to Iverson to Garnett, it doesn't mean its really going to happend.

    "The Francis idea was not your own". You're very stubborned. My first post on this forum was trade ideas and suggestions. One of the first moves I picked for Francis was to send him to Memphis, since they're need of a pentrating PG.

    Artest is a problem? I admit, he does act up, but when he's on the court he's one of the best in the NBA on the defensive end of the court, and he can score points also. He and Jermaine O'Neil led the Pacers to a 60 win season one time. Artest is better than any player we have on this roster right to have him would a luxury. Artest


    Hey, Chris made a point "We've got enough of our own. " So why keep our problems? Subtract the problems so we can become closer to respectiblity in the NBA.

    How many times are you going to menton Dr.Carpy and the One and Only. Just because they agree with you doesn't mean you have to get on your knees for them in all of your post. Try to debate against me alone, it makes you look weak when you need to call other people's name here. Dr.Carpy is a her? If He isn't...lol damn son, you dropped some Ether on the only person in here who can co-sign you, tough break dude. You can't ether no body, you've been frustrated and mad throughout this whole thread for no reason, I kept my cool you couldn't. I don't need to insult you cause I'm better than that. When I insult people it gets serious, cause feelings get hurt. Look at what happend last time. I had people sent me PM's, they went crying, stalking my post(like you do now). Thats why I said discuss basketball only in this thread, but yet again you continue again and again in all of your post to go off topic. Either because you lost agruement badly and don't want to elobrate cause you'll look stupid or you have a beef with me. Move on, let it go. We're Knick fans.

    Originally Posted by The 1 and Only
    Most of the things I've read on this thread are what I call "shake ups". I'm not saying any of them are wrong but I don't want any more shakeups. The past 7 years have been shakeups so why do we need another one? I liked seth's idea...just let everything expire and pile up picks. That's the best idea I've seen on here. Everything else is too radical. If you change everything like what most people have done on this site then you're going to do more harm than good. We are on the right track. So why fire everybody and trade everybody just so we can be under the cap? We'll be under the cap soon enough. Let's keep the rooks and sophs. Frye doesn't have all-star potential? Then why is it all NBA teams were trying to aquire him last year? Why were analysts saying he would be ROY runner up if he didn't get hurt? I'm not a big fan of Frye but I realize what he can do...he can shoot the rock. We can teach him the mentality to rebound. And the don is on to something. Chemistry is the word of the day. How are we ever going to gain chemistry if we take on the radical movements in this thread? Believe it or not we are gaining somewhat of a chemistry but any of these silly trades would ruin it. The upgrade of Curry's game, the minutes distribution, and just the mentality of the team will be ruined. If everyone thinks they are on the trading block then how will they're play translate on the court? If we are going to make trades like GMs you must think like one. Trust me I would know...the GM skills runs in the fam. My plan will be revealed shortly...I'm too busy right now to post one but you will hear my theory soon...
    The past 7 years have been shakeups so why do we need another one? Why would want to still be a bad team? You just proved my agruement. We've been terrible the last 5 years, why must we wait 2 other years to wait for cap relief? How do you know Isiah won't trade those expiring contracts for even longer contracts? Isiah has shown no interest in cap relief at all. You guys have too much hope and faith in Isiah, even after all the bad decisions he has made.

    More harm than good? We're subtracting cancer players who are turnover prone, over dribble and take bad shot selections for key veterans who have expiring contracts.

    "We'll be under the cap soon enough", No we won't be under the cap this year or the year after that. Theres nothing WRONG with trading everybody, everyone on this team is tradable except David Lee. Chicago traded alot of people, got under cap relief as soon as possible, and look at where they're at now. You don't waste two seasons in the NBA, that is embarassing.

    Fyre does not have All star potential. He's very SOFT, very SOFT, if you call Dirk soft, Fyre has to one of the softest big men in the NBA. We've seen it with our own eyes, when his jumper isn't going down, his offensive game is weak. He's a poor rebounder and defender. Shot blocker? Ha, Fyre is a very poor help defender/man on man defender. Fyre is one of the best jump shooting big men in the NBA, but thats all he can be really. What will it take for you guys to realize that? It seems like whenever we have a rookie, you guys over do it. I've seen people call Fyre a Tim Duncan close or Trevor Ariza the next T-Mac. Stop the hype, it doesn't prove anything. Watch the game. Fyre's one dementional, he's going to be a solid player. Nothing more. All the NBA teams were trying to acquire Fyre last year? Can you prove this? I know IND want a bite at Fyre, can I get some sorces or are you just saying something ridiculous vague to prove your point?

    These trades are silly, but you still haven't posted yours up yet. Remember, I clearly explain all my trades, I told you guys my direction. I believe I explained my deals the best, and people who want to be stubborn will probably insult me and ignore that.

    Are you DonChris now? Don't be his hypeman, Chemistry isn't the word of the day. We not have it. We can't win games with loser players

    Curry is a loser player, look at his track record
    Marbury is a loser player, look at his track record
    Crawford is a loser player, look at his track record
    Francis is a loser player, look at his track record

    I could go on on, we need a change. Theres nothing radical about those moves. They're moves to help the cap room, and we still get to keep a good young core of players(like I already stated). Isiah's moves the last 3 years were RADICAL, why can't you admit to that? Why does Isiah get the free gun shot to make radical moves, but when we suggest trading cancers for expiring contracts we get looked down for it?

    Originally Posted by NYKnicks15
    wow im actually going to say this.. after reading these posts im GLAD Isiah is our GM haha. Ugly suggestions so far (except the one Chris took from me haha) and wouldnt make sense for either team logic wise OR SALARY WISE!

    we have to face the facts. we are not going to be under the cap UNTIL the year LeBron goes back on free agency. and who in free agency is SOOO GOOD that we should dump our roster and semicornerstones for? NO ONE UNTIL LEBRON.

    This coming season, Taylor, JRose, Houston, Anderson, JYD all come off the books. that brings us down from 136M to 86M. 50m drop. good right?

    We also have a first round pick, second round pick, new MLE.

    You have to realize the Knicks are not going to trade away everyone and their mother and rightfully so. We need to build chemistry. And a Curry/Frye/Lee/Jeffries/Balkman/Crawford/Q/Marbury pieced team is the way to do that. Like it or not. HATE ISIAH OR NOT. that team is putting up Wins or quality games. keep building that chemistry.

    Now as for expandable I think Steve, Nate, JJ (obviously), even Malik and Collins are. I like Malik and think he has a good leadership quality (as well his expiring contract after this season).

    If we could and its probably unlikely we should trade Steve and our second rounder to Memphis for Eddie Jones and their first rounder. Maybe throw in Nate & Malik together if they add Stromile Swift.

    now if we stay put at deadline and head into offseason. with a hopefully healthy Francis ship him to Minny with Frye and Malik for Garnett mind as well. hell expire before LeBrons free agency bid anyhow. If we dont do that, sign a Defensive C in the offseason. Make a run at Mourning. or hell even Magloire.

    I know we arent an incredible team but i think the way to fix the knicks is to JUST RELAX. well that and ship out Steve Francis or somehow rid ourselves of him. haha.
    We do realize Knicks aren't going to trade anyone. We know this. We've heard it a thousand times, theres no need to recite this over and over. We have the worst GM in the NBA with the biggest ego. Isiah doesn't want to trade "his" players because he'll loook a double standard fool.

    Memphis would decline. I don't think they want to trade their first and expiring contract at the same time. Theres only one person in the NBA would do that, Isiah Thomas. An expiring contract is all they would give up Francis, plus a 2nd rounder maybe.

    Who cares if Malik Rose is a nice guy? He's absolute garbage on the court. I rather have Bo Outlaw, who's still productive and can be a great locker room guy. Why settle for the garbage of the NBA? I ask you this. Why must the Knicks be the garbage can for the NBA? Chicago thought Crawford and Curry were garbage and can't be apart of the future, where do they ship off to? New York. Phoneix thought Marbury and Penny were holding back their youth from elite status, where do they ship them off? New York. Orlando felt Francis was holding back Arroyo/Nelson from being a 1-2 PG Punch, where do they ship him? New York. I just wonder every day why must it be us who gets dicked in every deal? Now you're telling me you're okay, and you're going to be relaxed with this roster the next 2 years? We don't even have a lottery pick. You think Knicks are the only team in the NBA that are going to improve. NBA is a very competitive league, every other team is going to prove, along with us. Except the older teams like Spurs and the Heat, who will probably lose Duncan and Shaq in the next 2-3 years.

    We get better by subtracting. Marbury, Crawford, Francis, Robinson are all the same players. Combo scoring guards. I keep Robinson becase his contract is the cheapest. Marbury, Crawford, Francis are all replacable.

    Again, I can't see, or any logical NBA fan could see Minnesota take Francis and Fyre two extremely medicore NBA players, plus the awful contract of Malik Rose for one of the top players in the NBA, Kevin Garnett. He's either going to Chicago or a team that has young talent but wants to win right now.

    I hate to be the guy who in the end says "I told you so". But I've always ended up being that guy. People told me Marbury was going to carry the Knicks to the finals, and I disagreed. I was bashed for this. People told me Knicks are going to play better than Chicago since have Curry, I didn't co-sign and told him Chicago are better now and in the future thanks to the Curry deal. I was bashed for that in other Knicks forums. I actually had other people 3 years ago telling me Francis was a better PG than Steve Nash. After that, Nash won 2 MVP's and probably another one this year. I've had people tell me Fyre was going to average 18/7 this season and he would make the all star team. All this hype and predictions really do nothing. Saying chemistry and over really doesn't explain nothing to me, I know what chemistry is. I look at the Spurs, Dallas, Suns. They know what they want to execute every night. We have too many turnover prone streaky players to have "chemistry" and go out every night and attack the game plan we set out every night. I'm not even sure Isiah has a gameplan to begin with. Anyway, this isn't about Isiah. I explained my trades and how similar they are to the moves Chicago did. Be mediocre for one season, get cap space, and come to the elite level in the NBA.
    Last edited by metrocard; Jan 04, 2008 at 13:17.

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    Originally Posted by metrocard
    The past 7 years have been shakeups so why do we need another one? Why would want to still be a bad team? You just proved my agruement. We've been terrible the last 5 years, why must we wait 2 other years to wait for cap relief? How do you know Isiah won't trade those expiring contracts for even longer contracts? Isiah has shown no interest in cap relief at all. You guys have too much hope and faith in Isiah, even after all the bad decisions he has made.

    More harm than good? We're subtracting cancer players who are turnover prone, over dribble and take bad shot selections for key veterans who have expiring contracts.

    "We'll be under the cap soon enough", No we won't be under the cap this year or the year after that. Theres nothing WRONG with trading everybody, everyone on this team is tradable except David Lee. Chicago traded alot of people, got under cap relief as soon as possible, and look at where they're at now. You don't waste two seasons in the NBA, that is embarassing.

    Fyre does not have All star potential. He's very SOFT, very SOFT, if you call Dirk soft, Fyre has to one of the softest big men in the NBA. We've seen it with our own eyes, when his jumper isn't going down, his offensive game is weak. He's a poor rebounder and defender. Shot blocker? Ha, Fyre is a very poor help defender/man on man defender. Fyre is one of the best jump shooting big men in the NBA, but thats all he can be really. What will it take for you guys to realize that? It seems like whenever we have a rookie, you guys over do it. I've seen people call Fyre a Tim Duncan close or Trevor Ariza the next T-Mac. Stop the hype, it doesn't prove anything. Watch the game. Fyre's one dementional, he's going to be a solid player. Nothing more. All the NBA teams were trying to acquire Fyre last year? Can you prove this? I know IND want a bite at Fyre, can I get some sorces or are you just saying something ridiculous vague to prove your point?

    These trades are silly, but you still haven't posted yours up yet. Remember, I clearly explain all my trades, I told you guys my direction. I believe I explained my deals the best, and people who want to be stubborn will probably insult me and ignore that.

    Are you DonChris now? Don't be his hypeman, Chemistry isn't the word of the day. We not have it. We can't win games with loser players

    Curry is a loser player, look at his track record
    Marbury is a loser player, look at his track record
    Crawford is a loser player, look at his track record
    Francis is a loser player, look at his track record

    I could go on on, we need a change. Theres nothing radical about those moves. They're moves to help the cap room, and we still get to keep a good young core of players(like I already stated). Isiah's moves the last 3 years were RADICAL, why can't you admit to that? Why does Isiah get the free gun shot to make radical moves, but when we suggest trading cancers for expiring contracts we get looked down for it?
    We have to realize something. Just because you layout a 4 page report on something doesn't make it Grade A material. And how did I prove your arguement...you didn't explain that real well. I'm only going to respond to the statements that I can actually argue because some of your points are obviously right and some of them are obviously wrong and I'm not going to waste my time.

    "More harm than good? We're subtracting cancer players who are turnover prone, over dribble and take bad shot selections for key veterans who have expiring contracts."

    Yes more harm than good. It's great that you're subtracting "cancer" players on our team but like what I've said a million times when you trade players excessively (like your plan and some others) you destroy chemistry and you set us back even further. You think we suck now? Let's do your plan and you will set us so far back...when it's time for free agents to come, no one would want to come to a garbage team like ours because you've traded almost the entire supporting cast. When you realized that you messed up a piece of the puzzle....you don't destroy the entire puzzle and start from scratch. You only displace the error. Nothing radical, nothing crazy. That's the logical thing to do. You don't trade someone because you don't like the guy or you don't fire the guy because you think he's doing a bad job. If he has a plan and you can look down the tunnel and see a glimpse of light, then you keep the guy. THESE ARE RADICAL MOVEMENTS. I really don't know any other way to say it. When you want to blow up the entire team....that sounds radical to me lol. I can agree to disagree tho.


    "Fyre does not have All star potential. He's very SOFT, very SOFT, if you call Dirk soft, Fyre has to one of the softest big men in the NBA."

    I can't believe you just said that man. The guy has been in the league for 2 years and you don't think he has all-star potential? Aren't judging a lil prematurely? He's already a great jump shooting big guy...other pieces of his game can be tought. We all thought Eddy was going to be garbage but look at him now. Come on now we have to think logical.

    Dirk IS the softest big man in the NBA. He posts up smaller fowards to the free throw line or so and shoots directly over them. Bruce Bowen pushed him off the block! And you're putting frye and dirk in the same sentence in a sense of being soft? Don't get me wrong...Frye isn't a rugged power foward that is a beast but he's no Dirk. He doesn't have as much talent as Dirk yet but he's not even close to being soft like Dirk. We've seen Frye in the post more times than dirk and dirk plays more minutes than frye. Dirk could win MVP this year and he's a great player. But he's soft. S-O-F-T! Marshmellow, powderpuff soft! And thats what barkley said lol.

    And I don't really remember when we hyped Ariza into being T-Mac. I'mma need some proof on that lol. In fact, I don't remember the last rookie we hyped up since Frye. Everyone thinks a rookie is going to do well but that's being optimistic. I've heard the Frye and Duncan comparison. But that doesn't mean he's going to be as good as duncan they just have similar games in certain aspects. Read between the lines.

    "Shot blocker? Ha, Fyre is a very poor help defender/man on man defender." (referring to frye)

    Let me bust out some stats for you....let's start from the beginning. He's starts off very poor in blocks with just 1 block in his first 4 games. But look at the following....3 blocks in Denver, 1 in houston in 18 minutes, then his minutes fluctuate but as of late this is the statline in blocks....4,2,2,0,0,1,01,0,3,1....that's not the best but that is potential if you want to believe it or not. Too judge so harshly on a 2nd year player is foolish. Look how Lee strectched his range on his jumper...he improved rather quickly didn't he?

    And you don't believe me when I said everyone wanted frye? Here's my proof....[Only registered and activated users can see links. ] enjoy it.

    "Isiah's moves the last 3 years were RADICAL, why can't you admit to that?"

    Didn't I admit that when I said the past 7 years were shakeups? lol And this is the reason why I believe another shakeup or radical movement would put us more into the hole. You're plan is radical, you have to face that man. It's radical and this team doesn't need to go through that. I think the past 7 years speak for itself.

    It's obvious we're on opposite sides of the spectrum on this matter. But I respect your opinion...I just don't agree to it tho.

  4. #19
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    Originally Posted by The 1 and Only
    We have to realize something. Just because you layout a 4 page report on something doesn't make it Grade A material. And how did I prove your arguement...you didn't explain that real well. I'm only going to respond to the statements that I can actually argue because some of your points are obviously right and some of them are obviously wrong and I'm not going to waste my time.

    "More harm than good? We're subtracting cancer players who are turnover prone, over dribble and take bad shot selections for key veterans who have expiring contracts."

    Yes more harm than good. It's great that you're subtracting "cancer" players on our team but like what I've said a million times when you trade players excessively (like your plan and some others) you destroy chemistry and you set us back even further. You think we suck now? Let's do your plan and you will set us so far back...when it's time for free agents to come, no one would want to come to a garbage team like ours because you've traded almost the entire supporting cast. When you realized that you messed up a piece of the puzzle....you don't destroy the entire puzzle and start from scratch. You only displace the error. Nothing radical, nothing crazy. That's the logical thing to do. You don't trade someone because you don't like the guy or you don't fire the guy because you think he's doing a bad job. If he has a plan and you can look down the tunnel and see a glimpse of light, then you keep the guy. THESE ARE RADICAL MOVEMENTS. I really don't know any other way to say it. When you want to blow up the entire team....that sounds radical to me lol. I can agree to disagree tho.


    "Fyre does not have All star potential. He's very SOFT, very SOFT, if you call Dirk soft, Fyre has to one of the softest big men in the NBA."

    I can't believe you just said that man. The guy has been in the league for 2 years and you don't think he has all-star potential? Aren't judging a lil prematurely? He's already a great jump shooting big guy...other pieces of his game can be tought. We all thought Eddy was going to be garbage but look at him now. Come on now we have to think logical.

    Dirk IS the softest big man in the NBA. He posts up smaller fowards to the free throw line or so and shoots directly over them. Bruce Bowen pushed him off the block! And you're putting frye and dirk in the same sentence in a sense of being soft? Don't get me wrong...Frye isn't a rugged power foward that is a beast but he's no Dirk. He doesn't have as much talent as Dirk yet but he's not even close to being soft like Dirk. We've seen Frye in the post more times than dirk and dirk plays more minutes than frye. Dirk could win MVP this year and he's a great player. But he's soft. S-O-F-T! Marshmellow, powderpuff soft! And thats what barkley said lol.

    And I don't really remember when we hyped Ariza into being T-Mac. I'mma need some proof on that lol. In fact, I don't remember the last rookie we hyped up since Frye. Everyone thinks a rookie is going to do well but that's being optimistic. I've heard the Frye and Duncan comparison. But that doesn't mean he's going to be as good as duncan they just have similar games in certain aspects. Read between the lines.

    "Shot blocker? Ha, Fyre is a very poor help defender/man on man defender." (referring to frye)

    Let me bust out some stats for you....let's start from the beginning. He's starts off very poor in blocks with just 1 block in his first 4 games. But look at the following....3 blocks in Denver, 1 in houston in 18 minutes, then his minutes fluctuate but as of late this is the statline in blocks....4,2,2,0,0,1,01,0,3,1....that's not the best but that is potential if you want to believe it or not. Too judge so harshly on a 2nd year player is foolish. Look how Lee strectched his range on his jumper...he improved rather quickly didn't he?

    And you don't believe me when I said everyone wanted frye? Here's my proof....[Only registered and activated users can see links. ] enjoy it.

    "Isiah's moves the last 3 years were RADICAL, why can't you admit to that?"

    Didn't I admit that when I said the past 7 years were shakeups? lol And this is the reason why I believe another shakeup or radical movement would put us more into the hole. You're plan is radical, you have to face that man. It's radical and this team doesn't need to go through that. I think the past 7 years speak for itself.

    It's obvious we're on opposite sides of the spectrum on this matter. But I respect your opinion...I just don't agree to it tho.

    I never asked for a grade on here, I don't need anyone's approval. But I don't want people going around here saying "THAT SUCKS" or "I THANK GOD ISIAH IS MY GM", without explain themselves. Learn how to explain, this goes to everyone, don't just drop by and leave a statement unexplained. Its simple.


    Subtracting cancer players doesn't do more harm than good. You've said a million times, but never proved the point. Trading either results in diaster, like Isiah has done, or transformation into elite status, something Orlando, Phoneix, and Chicago has done, and guess what? Isiah traded with all them. Trading doesn't hurt chemistry, it just matters who gets dicked at the end of the deal, and Isiah has been dicked, a million times, more times you repeated yourself but couldn't prove your logic correct. Isiah is a bad GM, and thats why I want him out. He's been owned on most of his trades, why would I want that part of my future. Even a better question, why would you want that apart of your future? You're a Knick fan like me, why do you want failure and below averageness? Stop this, Isiah has failed the Knicks and he needs to go. Anything is better than Isiah at this point, thats why so many people's standards here are so low. They think guys like Crawford and Curry can lead this team to the playoffs. No, they can't. They had 3 years to do that in Chicago, they've failed.

    We're already a garbage team, we will be a garbage team by 2008 if we don't change. What the hell are you saying? You're saying because we traded away cancer players, but we still have a as talented roster we will be a garbage team? Honestly, My roster is way more coachable. and This is New York, where players make a name for themselves, theres been free agents who have shown interest in New York, but Knicks been over the cap for almost a decade, and Isiah has made it worst. How do you know my plan will set us far back? Did you accually travel to the future, I was declared GM of the Knicks and you saw my plan crumble? You're always predicting and assuming things, that doesn't prove anything. I traded almost all of the supporting cast, but replaced them with supporting role players. I hate to break your heart, but the supporting cast on this team isn't good. Trading them doesn't harm us.


    He said

    When you realized that you messed up a piece of the puzzle....you don't destroy the entire puzzle and start from scratch.

    I have something better for you.

    Lets say you get a D on an English paper. The professor gives you another chance (Isiah has had plenty) to do it again. Would you do the same errors you did on that paper, and expect to get an A? NO, that would completely moronic. You change your errors and ways. Thats the problem with Isiah, he's too stubborn to change his ways, and if you agree with Isiah, then you're stubborn yourself. Get over this roster, we have one of the weakest rosters in the NBA until we hit .500. When we hit .500, then I'm a believer of what Isiah's is doing. Until then, its all hype.

    I accually like most of the players on this team except Francis. Q-Rich is my favorite on this roster, so you're wrong again. You don't keep players cause you "like" them, thats manlove or Isiahsexuality. You trade players that keeps your team from winning. Unfortunetly, theres alot of guys on this roster are replacable.

    "If he has a plan and you can look down the tunnel and see a glimpse of light"

    I think thats you just looking up Isiah's ass(j/k), he has no plan or "light". He's created a blackhole for the Knicks until 2008. How do we know Isiah won't resign Fyre, Robinson, to crazy contracts? Or trade Malik Rose's contract for even a longer one? You definately don't know this. This is why we can't trust Isiah, and anyone who does is a fool. He has failed us so many times, this is why I question people who are apologist for Isiah. Its like being an apologist for someone who slapped your mom in the face. It makes absolute no sense.

    What are you talking about blowing up the entire team?

    [B]Marbury[/B]/Robinson
    Jones/Garcia
    Artest/Jefferies/Williamson
    Lee/Balkman/Fortson
    Curry/Petro/Tsakalidis

    We still have Marbury, Robinson, Jefferies, Lee, Balkman, and Curry. You must be "delusional". Joking its funny that Isiah and Brown will face head to head soon, can't wait for that battle of the dummies. Anyway, you're overusing the word radical, just get to the point. We need to change it up before its too late. I guess you, donchris, dr.carpy don't have a problem for when it's too late, or you guys don't have a problem going into next season with the same roster.

    "We all thought Eddy was going to be garbage "

    No we didn't, who the hell said that? We gave up alot of cap space, two first rounders, which will be lottery picks since the only way we'll ever make the playoffs if all the teams in our divison tank it. We expected Curry to be worth cap space and two lotteries, there was alot of expectation for Curry. Thats not thinking with logic, accually I will laugh if you try to reply to this, I think you tried to say something, but it didn't come out right and you came out with that. I'm not going to fault you though. We all make mistakes, even myself.


    You never heard Trevor Ariza been hyped up as T-Mac? I guess you never been to NYC before, Ariza has been hyped up alot during his rookie year in the summerleague, did you even watch any of the summer league games when Ariza came here? He was flying out of the gym and completely was a beast. Knick fans were hyped up, even his first game in the NBA he preformed extremely well, Knick fans were hyped up cause we haven't had a young promising rookie in that long. Now whenever we get a young promising players its automatically "Curry is the next Shaq" "Fyre is the next Duncan" "Lee is the next Oakley" "Robinson is the next Spudd Webb". My point is, these comparisions prove nothing.

    Other pieces of Fyre's game can be tought? This in the NBA, a league for developed players. The development league is called the NBDL. So you basically co-sign with me that Channing Fyre is a one dementional player.

    Bruce Bowen pushes alot of people off the block, what are you talking about? Dirk isn't the softest bigman in the NBA, at all. Dirk went to the Free Throw line 708 in 05, that one of the tops in the NBA. He almost had 600 attempts last year. Dirk right now is top 10 in Free Throw attempts. Dirk's game has gotten more physical over the past years. Hop off of Barkley and stop hating on Dirk. Dirk has the ability to drive to the basket and get to the free throw line. You cannot deny this. How does that make Dirk THE SOFTEST PLAYER IN THE NBA? When you have players like Pat Garrity, Tim Thomas, and etc. You obviously overreacted with that statement. Keep it simple. Make your points, don't say RADICAL statements to save your agruements.

    Fyre shoots 41% from the FG. I don't want my big man shooting that low of FG%. Big men should shoot 48%-over 50%. Fyre is below average the expectation. Hell, even Kurt Thomas who took mostly jumpshoots, never shot that low for the Knicks. Fyre is a career 45% FG shooter, which is very poor for a big. Fyre plays like a spot up shooter, he has a WEAK post game. Kurt Thomas always been a 48-50% FG shooter, and most of his shots were MID RANGE 15-18 footers. The same thing Fyre has done. Fyre is a shooter who shoots a low percentage. Thats terrible really. I rather have Al Jefferson who's bangs in the post, averages 9 rebounds per game, plays defense, and scores much more points than Fyre.

    Fyre came into the draft as a college SENIOR. Its not like he's Dwight Howard, Al Jefferson or Bynum status. He has had enough years to polish his game. His game is accually well polished, he's VERY well coached. God, please don't say something ridiculous like Luke Olson is an overrated coach to help your sad agrument. But he's not talented enough to be an all star. In college, he was a soft player. In the NBA, he's even softer. Its simple, Fyre's potential is very limited, you can see it when he plays. His game won't be different than it is now, than it will be 5-10 years from now. Fyre will always be in the NBA because he's a shooter. And thats his best quality, and its not a CONSISTANT quality. This is a fact you can't disagree with. He's a good kid, but only a role player.

    Isiah's plan has put us in a hole because we're in CAP HELL. My plan would take us out of cap hell, how does that make sense? How does having cap space put us in a college? I can't understand it cause you're not making sense. You've just said the word Radical about 7 times in your post. This team, and this franchise needs to start over and start fresh with a NEW CLEAN SLATE. This is what you don't understand. When you're a lose r Franchise for 5 years, and will be until 2008, you need to start it over. Just like when you get a D on a English paper, you do don't write the SAME paper, you do something NEW and you do the right thing.

    Guess what the right thing is to do? Get cap space, get rid of cancer players, subtract heavy contracts. Don't have 4 combo guards on a team, establish indentity and respect in the NBA. If you can prove my plan doesn't apply those things, go for it. Theres nothing "radical" about this, this is what the Knicks should of did a long time ago.

    Isiah is totally wrong for even making all those trades, if it wasn't for Isiah, we wouldn't even have to be discussing this. We're in a blackhole, many of those trades would benefit us in the future.

    We're not on opposite sides, we're both Knick fans. You're just being an apologist for Isiah, while I support moves that will help this franchise in the future. Forget Isiah, forget Barkley, think of the orange and blue. If you don't know what cap space does, look at what Phoneix did with cap space and Steve Nash, Chicago with Ben Wallace etc and etc. NYC is the mecca of basketball, why wouldn't a player want to make a name for himself in a place like the Knicks? Especially a guy like Artest who has had problems in IND and SAC.

    Please my friend, I want a winning team, and a championship, not now. I have the patience to watch a team grow, but not this roster. This roster shows no potential to winning.


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    One way to look at how a GM might artfully address the problem of acquiring a Gold Medal Superstar or even a Silver Medal Superstar and building a championship team is to look at the two greatest GMs in NBA history: Red Auerbach and Jerry West. The teams they built account for 24 of the 50 NBA titles since 1956. Their genius was constantly thinking several years ahead to put the Celtics and the Lakers in position to get a Gold Medal Superstar or a Silver Medal Superstar. They were unwilling to tank, per se, and always wanted to field contenders, but they were willing to sacrifice in the near term, to assume great risks, to increase the chances of getting a superstar down the road. They were patient, willing to wait for the right moment to make a deal and then they pounced on it. They knew that they needed superstars to win titles and that drove everything they did as GM.

    Red Auerbach lucked into Bob Cousy. But he traded away two all-stars for Bill Russell, because he alone saw that Russ would revolutionize the game. Then in 1962 he stole John Havlicek at the end of the first round because Hondo was planning to play pro football. Red rolled the dice that Hondo would not cut it in the NFL and he won. He got lucky that when the Cs dipped after Russell’s retirement, the NBA had a deep draft and he was able to get Dave Cowens fourth overall in 1970, behind Maravich, Lanier and Tomjanovich. Cowens was the best of the bunch. In 1978 Red drafted Bird sixth in the first round because he was willing to wait a year before Bird would enter the NBA. Imagine that! Five teams drafted players like Purvis Short and Rick Robey rather than wait one year on a talent like Bird. Incredible. Then in the mid-80s Red saw that the Bird era was nearing an end. He traded a starting point guard off his returning 1984 championship team – Gerald Henderson—to Seattle for a 1986 no. 1 pick. That took cajones. The pick turned into the no. 2 pick overall—Len Bias. Had Bias lived … those are the three most depressing words in the English language to Celtics fans.



    Jerry West

    Jerry West is every bit Red’s equal. He traded mediocre players like Don Ford (huhhh??) to impatient teams for distant future no. 1 picks that became the first picks overall in 1979 and 1982 – Magic and James Worthy. Then he systematically cleared cap space in the mid-90s because he knew Shaq would leave Orlando only for LA. And he traded a quality starting NBA center entering his prime, Vlade Divacs, for a high school guard taken in the mid-first round, Kobe Bryant. No one ever thought much of drafting guards out of high school… until Jerry West.

    Then, when West moved to Memphis in 2003, he came within a whisker of getting the first pick overall in the draft – what would have been LeBron James. Had West gotten James, teamed him with Gasol, and had all the time he needed to find complementary pieces, we may well have seen a team that would win 5-8 titles by 2020, if not more. West would be bigger than Elvis in Memphis and unquestionably the dominant figure in the history of the league and the sport. But, alas, West lost in the lottery and the Memphis pick was conveyed to the Pistons, who picked Darko second overall ahead of Anthony, Bosh and Wade.

    Now to some extent the Red-West approach is more difficult today because teams put lottery-protections on traded first rounders to prevent their losing a superstar. But three key rules have emerged: First: accumulate marketable assets so you can trade the surplus talent for future no. 1 picks. It means you had better draft well and be a good judge of talent. Eventually, if you are lucky you might get a chance to draft a potential superstar. This also keeps the payroll lower in the meantime.

    Second, try to get underneath the cap so you can strike for a quality free agent; i.e. do not waste long-term MLE-or-higher contracts on mediocre veterans unless you already have your Gold Medal Superstar or Silver Medal Superstar and are a serious contender, and the costly veteran player can be the difference to get you a flag. Do not blow cap space unless you are a contender or unless you are using your capspace on a superstar or a potential superstar, like Steve Nash, Ben Wallace or Gilbert Arenas. This second commandment means that teams that have no hope to contend should not be clogging the payroll with $30 million five year MLE deals on journeymen veterans every year. If a team has significant capspace it has to be willing to keep it for a season or two and wait for the right deal to come along. Don’t be pressured into blowing it.

    Third, be patient. Very patient. Impatience dooms any hope for success.

    For a while it looked like Jerry West had lost 20 mph off his GM fastball when he lost out in the LeBron sweepstakes after moving to the hapless Grizzlies in 2002-03. Don’t get me wrong: he did a terrific job turning a terrible team into a playoff team in short order, but he had only one possible superstar, Pau Gasol, and no hope of ever contending in the rugged western conference. He wasted valuable capspace on mediocrities like Brian Cardinal. It seemed like West was content to win 45-50 games and make the play-offs. He no longer was playing for all the marbles.

    But this summer it looks like West has rediscovered his championship mojo. Coming off a 49 win season he has basically blown the team up. He understands that Paul Gasol will not provide enough superstar firepower on his own to win a title, even if Gasol becomes an all-NBA performer, which he may. So West traded solid veteran Shane Battier for Rudy Gay, who, unlike Battier, has the potential to be a superstar. Gay probably won’t become one, but the possibility is there, as much as it was for any player in the 2006 draft. (This was a smart trade for Houston, too. They already have their superstar in Yao Ming and his sidekick in McGrady. What they need is to get them healthy and now they have a superb complementary team player entering his prime in Battier.)

    West has also moved to create massive cap space next summer, which is directly out of his long-term playbook. It looks like West is even willing to dip into the 07 lottery if need be to come up with a much stronger core, and a potential superstar. The 07 draft looks to be one of the best in the past decade. The talent is so young it is not clear if we have another 1984 or 2003, but it is possible. West understands that Memphis’s marginal playoff team of the past few seasons will not cut the mustard, cannot hope to win a title, and it needed radical changes. Lots of GMs would not have the courage or foresight to do that. They would have settled for 50 wins and incremental improvement. Will it work? Who knows? The only thing certain is that the other option definitely would not have produced a flag. And a year from now Memphis team with Gasol, Gay, a high lotto pick in a deep draft and a big ticket free agent could be very interesting.

    The Red-West approach still is the only program that makes any sense, short of lucking into a LeBron James. But it takes more skill than ever. And it takes a boatload of luck. Two teams that recently showed this artistry were Phoenix and Chicago. Not surprisingly, their GMs are among the most respected in the NBA. For starters, these are two teams that systematically created cap space while patiently building talented young teams. They were able to use the cap space to acquire Steve Nash and Ben Wallace. But that is just the beginning.

    Coming off a 62-20 season in the summer of 2005, Phoenix already had Nash, Marion and Stoudemire. Rather than sign Joe Johnson to a huge deal and put the Suns in luxury tax land, the Suns traded him to the Hawks for Boris Diaw and the Hawks no. 1 in 2007 (top 3 protected) or 2008 (unprotected). This looked like a surprising willingness by a contender to field a weaker team in the near term – Diaw’s play last season came as a great surprise. But look where the Suns are: if the Hawks provide them with a high lotto pick in 07 or 08 it has a chance to become a very special player, even a superstar. The Suns look to be a 55 plus win team without that pick for years – with it they could become a champion, and a contender for a decade. Perhaps even a dynasty. Red tips his hat. Maybe this is why West decided to go back to the drawing board in Memphis.

    Chicago faced a similar dilemma with Eddy Curry, a superb offensive center who is average otherwise. Rather than sign him to a huge cap-clogging deal that would have still left the Bulls short of a needed superstar, the Bulls traded him to the Knicks for a 2006 no. 1 and the right to swap no. 1 picks in 2007. This, in effect, meant that the Bulls were conceding that they would not improve much or at all in 2006 over 2005. That took guts because the Bulls went from 23 to 47 wins from 04 to 05 and were regarded as a team on the immediate rise. Impatient fans and pundits were chomping on the bit for immediate glory. But it was also a team that lacked a Gold Medal Superstar, or a viable candidate to become one. The 2006 pick became Tyrus Thomas, and the jury is out on him, but he possesses intriguing talent. The 2007 pick will likely be in the lottery, possibly the top half of the lottery. Moreover, the trade meant the Bulls stayed beneath the salary cap to be able to sign Ben Wallace, and the Bulls may possibly remain under the cap in the summer of 07. This trade could be the difference between the Bulls having a very nice young team with many very good players to becoming a team that can win titles.


    Few teams think like this, as far as I can tell. Or at least few fans and fewer pundits. Consider the Boston Celtics, the team I follow. The fans there are desperate, as is star player Paul Pierce, to have a winner, to see basketball in May, not to mention June. Danny Ainge has done a nice job of assembling many talented young players, though it is unlikely there are any Gold Medal Superstars in the mix. By all rights the team needs at least two seasons before it can be a 50 win team, and even that would be soon in view of the team’s youth. Pundits and Boston sportswriters almost universally implore Danny Ainge to trade away talented young players and draft choices so the team can fill needs with reliable veterans and win more in the near term. (See, for example: [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]) “You have to get good before you can get great, so the sooner you get good, the sooner you can get great,” the logic goes.

    Danny’s dilemma is similar to that of many teams. He has drafted brilliantly and has a nice core, and if he trades one or two kids and no. 1 picks for vets and signs MLE free agents every year for 5 year $30 million deals, he can probably get a 50 win team. He’ll have the Boston sportswriters like Peter May hooting and hollering in excitement like a 12 year old boy watching his first porno film. But unless Al Jefferson or Gerald Green or Sebastian Telfair becomes a Gold Medal Superstar – highly unlikely, in my view – there is no chance of racking up a title in that approach.

    Fortunately Danny has ignored them so far, because this approach would simply give short term improvement at the expense of stripping the team of valuable long-term assets and adding more salary to the payroll. This is what the pre-Ainge Celtics did when they traded, in effect, rookie Chauncey Billups, soon-to-be no. 1 pick Shawn Marion and rookie Joe Johnson in three idiotic trades for grizzled and mediocre veterans Kenny Anderson, Vitaly Potapenko and Rodney Rogers. The deals filled needs in the near term, made the team slightly better, and left the franchise a mess for years.

    I believe Ainge actually gets it – he has accumulated draft choices, he has stockpiled talented young players with real market value for trades, and he looks to be clearing cap space for two of three years down the road if need be -- but he is under considerable pressure to produce right now. The truly gutsy thing for Ainge to do goes entirely against the grain of the conventional wisdom: it would be to trade away one or two of his more marketable young players, those he thinks have inflated value, for future no. 1 picks. The idea is not to tank, but to try to win with Pierce and the remaining kids and hope to use someone else’s lottery picks to locate a superstar. (As General Patton told the troops just before D-Day: You don’t become a hero by dying for your country. You become a hero by making the enemy die for his country.) And if it takes another year for the Celtics to escape the lottery, that is not the worst thing on earth if the young players are playing and developing. Especially in 2007.

    To do this would take guts. It would require smart and brave owners. It would involve tremendous risk and possibly leave the team weaker in the near term and even in the long term. Peter May would go on a hunger strike until Ainge was fired. But is would also open the possibility for the Celtics to get the sort of player who can lead this team to the finals, and to victory. Unless Ainge is willing to take risks like these, I don’t see how the fine young team he is assembling plays basketball in June. Not with Mr. James and Mr. Wade and Mr. Howard and the Bulls holding forth in the eastern conference for the next decade.

    Let’s face it, probably 26 or 27 NBA teams will not win titles in the next decade. The odds are terrible. Lots of these teams will be really talented and really good, and some will be outstanding, like the recent Sacramento Kings. If a team wants to exit those ranks and actually win a title, it needs to go against the conventional wisdom and take supreme risks, it has to do so artfully, and it needs a lot of luck. Fortunately for the brave GM, not many NBA GMs are taking that approach right now. Patience is a virtue they believe they cannot afford. The short term pressures make it rational to pursue a policy that strongly reduces the chance for the team to get a Gold Medal Superstar and to win an NBA title.

    Is your team playing to win?

  5. #20
    Next season, keep waiting donchris's Avatar
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    Here's why I keep pushing the Garnett to NY trade.
    1. We all just witnessed the A.I. trade and Philly didn't get any thing close to equal value.
    2. Once again the A.I. trade. Iverson had a say so as to where he wanted to play.
    3. Look at the league right now or check out an ESPN archive. All of the teams that are allegedly making a run at Garnett don't have much more to offer than we do.

    The teams that have been named were L.A. clippers and Lakers, N.Y., Boston, Miami, and Detroit. Odds are "if" Garnett decides to leave or requests to be traded, he will be traded to the east. He has stated that he wants to be on a team that can make a title run so that leaves out Philly or Boston. He could end up in Detroit or Miami but I argue that nether team has much to trade. Plus rumor has it that Billips may be leaving Detroit which leaves them in a much worse position. Keeping all of this in mind the Net has mentioned in several interviews that be believed if he and Marbury were still together they would have won a championship. So I think this explains my far fetched idea, which by the way ESPN and fox sports once shared.

    I'm ending the back and forth right now. I already ethered this dude so it's over. I don't need to side with any one. I'm on the same side I've always been on, MY SIDE. It just happens that these guys that I'm agreeing with are on point now, but trust, we've been at odds before and will be again I'm sure. I'll try to keep this short. NO ONE WANTS TO READ AN ESSAY OF BABBLE. We all know the team we see is the team we will build on. Any thing else about trading every one is non sense.

  6. #21
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    I respect your opinion but I'm not going to even reply to most of your post. I'm tired of arguing my point and several people agree or understand and one person just doesn't know what I'm trying to say. My arguement is sad? lol That's something else I won't comment on. The people speak for themselves. But that english paper example was a horrible example lol. When you write english papers you write drafts so you actually have chances to improve yourself. It's one and done in the NBA man...they're aren't any second chances to reboot from your mistakes. You can disagree with my points but you can't tell me what's the "truth" or what's "lies" because neither you or I no the answers to that...that's if you don't have a crystal ball lying around somewhere lol. Again you have points in your argument that are obviously right and some that are obviously wrong. You had me crackin up on the isiah joke tho lol.

  7. #22
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    Originally Posted by donchris
    Here's why I keep pushing the Garnett to NY trade.
    1. We all just witnessed the A.I. trade and Philly didn't get any thing close to equal value.
    2. Once again the A.I. trade. Iverson had a say so as to where he wanted to play.
    3. Look at the league right now or check out an ESPN archive. All of the teams that are allegedly making a run at Garnett don't have much more to offer than we do.

    The teams that have been named were L.A. clippers and Lakers, N.Y., Boston, Miami, and Detroit. Odds are "if" Garnett decides to leave or requests to be traded, he will be traded to the east. He has stated that he wants to be on a team that can make a title run so that leaves out Philly or Boston. He could end up in Detroit or Miami but I argue that nether team has much to trade. Plus rumor has it that Billips may be leaving Detroit which leaves them in a much worse position. Keeping all of this in mind the Net has mentioned in several interviews that be believed if he and Marbury were still together they would have won a championship. So I think this explains my far fetched idea, which by the way ESPN and fox sports once shared.

    I'm ending the back and forth right now. I already ethered this dude so it's over. I don't need to side with any one. I'm on the same side I've always been on, MY SIDE. It just happens that these guys that I'm agreeing with are on point now, but trust, we've been at odds before and will be again I'm sure. I'll try to keep this short. NO ONE WANTS TO READ AN ESSAY OF BABBLE. We all know the team we see is the team we will build on. Any thing else about trading every one is non sense.
    You've shown you have no debating ability. All you do is curse people out, type in caps, and look like a complete fool.

    Nothing explains your farfeteched deal. I've asked you countless of times to prove to me that Minnesota has shown interest in Steve Francis. They have 5 COMBO guards in Marko Jaric, Troy Hudson, Mike James, Randy Foye, and Rashad McCants. Why would they want another Combo guard? That was the worst suggestion in this thread, you're frustrated cause you invited me to this thread and you were made a fool of. I love how you're afraid to debate my points and just insult me because you're mad. No one is trading everyone. I kept about 5-6 Knicks on my suggestion. Who said all my deals would go threw? You said I didn't even have an idea, but I did, and I proved you wrong. I presented the best possible direction for the Knicks, and you were stubborn, ignorant and mad enough not to give any props. You just hate on my post, I could say grass is green, you'll disagree and say something ignorantly false. Your side is the wrong side, with how much you defend Isiah, I don't think its the straight side either. Prove to me that the Knicks have more to give to Minnesota than the Chicago Bulls. If you can do this, you'll win this debate. If you can't, it just proves you're a grown unemployed sexually frustrated child behind the computer playing with Trade Checker on RealGM. You critisized me first, you even called me out. Look at you now, you can't even explain yourself. You're a MESS right now.


    You can't ether anyone when you're from the Carolinas, tough break kid.
    Last edited by metrocard; Jan 08, 2007 at 03:54.

  8. #23
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    Originally Posted by The 1 and Only
    I respect your opinion but I'm not going to even reply to most of your post.

    Victory. It was nice debating. Now hopefully carpy or chirs can give your effort, I'm not even sure both can combine to equal you. Whats funny, I didn't think that high of you when I came here, but you've gotten better and better with each post, even if I'm wrong or you're wrong, you still manage to present a reasonable agruement sometimes.


    I just honestly threw out a couple of ideas out there for CAPSPACE, I never said, and I accually stated some of those trades might not happend. This is all coming from the perspective if Isiah wasn't in control.

    But the main I would love to see is

    Fyre
    Francis

    For

    Artest
    Williamson
    Garcia


    I believe we could own the Alantic division if we pull that off, I would even throw a 2nd rounder in there. We answer our defensive woes with Artest and Garcia, and get a good offensive player in Williamson.

    Marbury/Robinson/Collins
    Richardson/Crawford/Garcia
    Artest/Jefferies/Williamson
    Lee/Balkman/Rose
    Curry/Cato/James


    I think thats the TRADE, we need to get to the next level. We need to get good and BUILD from there. Marbury has played great basketball this season, Richardson has looked like the best player on this roster when he's at his best, Curry has been making me eat my words, Lee is my favorite PF in the NBA by far, and Artest one of the best defenders in the NBA. He has played under Isiah Thomas too, so the chemistry will IMPROVE, not get worse. Plus we have a legit Bench at the same time, a nice mix of offense spark plugs, and defensive energy guys.
    Last edited by metrocard; Jan 08, 2007 at 04:09.

  9. #24
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    Excellent post. I'd love to have artest on this team. I don't know where the your "victory" came from but I'll let you keep it lol. And it's funny because I didn't really think high of your opinion either but I think our arguments have made each other better in a sense even though I've never had any other serious complaint about my posts. Good post man good post.

  10. #25
    Next season, keep waiting donchris's Avatar
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    A fool can not make any one look foolish other then them selves.
    Don Chris

    First off say what you want to say but spell my name right Mr. Spell check. Its f#%#ing Chris not Chirs. You reap what you sew so from here on, you leave out the personal attacks and so will I. Debating. Let's debate! You broke down why you think the Garnett trade is bad and I will break down why every thing you have suggested will not work and will not happen.

    First
    NY trades
    Jamal Crawford

    Seattle trades
    Johan Petro
    Danny Fortson

    It's not that this is a bad idea; it's just not a good one. Why trade a solid player for two bums when we could package Crawford up for someone better or just have him come off the bench?

    Second
    New York trades
    Steve Francis
    Jerome James

    Memphis trades
    Eddie Jones

    Recycled idea, please come up with your own. No one will take Jerome James. We are stuck with him.

    Third
    Knicks trade
    Q Richardson
    Channing Frye
    Malik Rose
    2nd rounder
    for
    Kings trade
    Ron Artest
    Corliss Williamson
    Fransico Garcia
    Vitaly Pop

    This really looks like you're pulling this out of your ass. Richardson is our best defender so that could hurt the team, plus, he's got a back issue. The rest of these guys are what, bench players. Honestly I don't even know who Corliss Williamson is. Not that this is a bad suggestion it's not a realistic one. If we passed on Artest before why do you think we will go after him now? If it turns out that I'm wrong about this I will admit it. But it wont because I'm not.

    Here is another option. The Knicks do nothing. No one great is becoming a free agent this year so we wait it out. Money is coming off the books so we will be in a better finantial position next season. Curry is devolping well (A player that I believed you called trash.) Crawford is good enough to keep on the bench and I'd keep him over Nate Robinson. Eventually we will need to make trades to rid our team of guards. This is why I suggested a trade to Seattle for Ridnior. Your response was that Seattle wouldn't trade Luke. Wrong! Luke bearly started this season and is expendable. I know this from readling a fantasy B-ball report. That squad is all about Lewis and Allan and they are looking to make changes. NY is always saying "we need a real PG" and we'd have one in Luke Ridnior.

    So in short my suggestion is for the time we don't make any major changes but down the line my general suggestion is we move out guards, Robinson, Francis or Collins and bring in Ridnior. This way you have a pass first point guard feeding the ball to our two best players, Eddie Curry and Stephon Marbury.

    So there's your debate with out personal attacks.
    Your move.

  11. #26
    The Gold Mac MSGKnickz33's Avatar
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    This thread should be deleted, i believe that making no trades would be best for the team and isiah IS NOT the worst gm ever. Why? cuz scott layden, kevin mcchale and the gm of the sixers are all worse. Danny ainge has made some bad moves with the celtics, pat riley was a fool to give antoine the money hes gettin. Isiahs not the only gm who makes mistakes and his mistakes arent that bad. His mistakes were jerome james, jalen rose and the francis deal which had L brown behind it. Scott layden sucked, mcchale and the sixers gm failed to get enough talent around 2 of the best in the league being iverson and garnett. Now, look at isiahs aquisitions; eddy curry, nate r + q rich, balkmen, david lee david lee and david lee. We have a nicely balanced team. If hes such a bad gm then why do the knicks have one of the most talented teams in the league that will compete for the playoffs this year and over the next several years be a lock for the playoffs and one of the best teams in the east?

  12. #27
    Next season, keep waiting donchris's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by MSGKnickz33
    This thread should be deleted, i believe that making no trades would be best for the team and isiah IS NOT the worst gm ever. Why? cuz scott layden, kevin mcchale and the gm of the sixers are all worse. Danny ainge has made some bad moves with the celtics, pat riley was a fool to give antoine the money hes gettin. Isiahs not the only gm who makes mistakes and his mistakes arent that bad. His mistakes were jerome james, jalen rose and the francis deal which had L brown behind it. Scott layden sucked, mcchale and the sixers gm failed to get enough talent around 2 of the best in the league being iverson and garnett. Now, look at isiahs aquisitions; eddy curry, nate r + q rich, balkmen, david lee david lee and david lee. We have a nicely balanced team. If hes such a bad gm then why do the knicks have one of the most talented teams in the league that will compete for the playoffs this year and over the next several years be a lock for the playoffs and one of the best teams in the east?
    Amen brother. TESTIFY!!!!

  13. #28
    Superstar The 1 and Only's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by MSGKnickz33
    This thread should be deleted, i believe that making no trades would be best for the team and isiah IS NOT the worst gm ever. Why? cuz scott layden, kevin mcchale and the gm of the sixers are all worse. Danny ainge has made some bad moves with the celtics, pat riley was a fool to give antoine the money hes gettin. Isiahs not the only gm who makes mistakes and his mistakes arent that bad. His mistakes were jerome james, jalen rose and the francis deal which had L brown behind it. Scott layden sucked, mcchale and the sixers gm failed to get enough talent around 2 of the best in the league being iverson and garnett. Now, look at isiahs aquisitions; eddy curry, nate r + q rich, balkmen, david lee david lee and david lee. We have a nicely balanced team. If hes such a bad gm then why do the knicks have one of the most talented teams in the league that will compete for the playoffs this year and over the next several years be a lock for the playoffs and one of the best teams in the east?
    Props for the post man

  14. #29
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    Originally Posted by metrocard
    Victory.

    But the main I would love to see is

    Fyre
    Francis

    For

    Artest
    Williamson
    Garcia

    .

    i'd luv to see artest here too, but the maloof's (nor anyone else) is taking the franchise... he had no value last year when orlando gave him to us for free... and his value if anything has dropped..

  15. #30
    12th man
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    Originally Posted by The 1 and Only
    Excellent post. I'd love to have artest on this team. I don't know where the your "victory" came from but I'll let you keep it lol. And it's funny because I didn't really think high of your opinion either but I think our arguments have made each other better in a sense even though I've never had any other serious complaint about my posts. Good post man good post.
    I've been good, you've step your game up in this thread even if you did lose.


    LOL...Chris is mad now? Mad enough to debate? This should be interesting. Lets see how he debates.


    Seattle trade, I said it clearly. Its for cap space. Once again you failed to read. You don't READ anything bro. Are you just trying to be a troll and not read what I wrote? I read everything you text and try to understand cause you're a Knick fan, I enjoy the opinion of Knick fans. Honestly, if you go my first post, you will see all the answers. You trade overpaid talent for cap space. Johan Petro isn't a scrub, he would be a great back up for Curry accually. Fortson is an expiring contract. This is deal is perfectly explain. You're just trying to make an agruement out of anything.

    Recycled idea? How many times have you said THAT? Come up with something new. Especially when its not recycled, it was my ORIGINAL idea. When I first came in this forum, that was the first idea I had in mind for Francis. Are you that slow? I've repeated atleast 3 times and you failed to read correctly.

    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    ^ My first thread ever, look at the Francis sugestion. Once again, you're not debating, explain yourself.


    Sorry if you think this is a diss don't think it is, but you had to be corrected.


    Chris says:
    "Honestly I don't even know who Corliss Williamson is. "

    This proves you don't even follow basketball. Corliss Williamson was an Arkansas Razorback who was named most outstanding player of the NCAA Tourny who won the NCAA Basketball Championship. You obviously don't follow college basketball, he was an elite college player.

    Corliss was also the NBA's sixt man of the year in 01-02, and won a championship with Detroit. Where the hell have you been the last 5 years? Coriliss is also one of the good guys in the NBA, he's one of the best bench players in the NBA also, a consistant one. Are you just trying to make me look dumb by believing you were accually serious with that statement? If so, I like that logic you got going.


    Richardson is our best defender so? We have one of the worst defenses in the NBA, thats not saying much. I love Richardson as much as anyone on this team, its just a suggestion. Especially when a guy like Artest is on the line.

    Guy, my response was Seattle wouldn't trade Luke for a bench player like Nate Robinson. Nate Robinson isn't half the talent or PG or guard Luke is. You will never prove Seattle would accept Robinson for Ridnour straight up. We already have a PG with Marbury, who isn't going to be traded, unless its a block buster deal. Marbury is better than Ridnour, Nate isn't. That trade MADE zero sense at all. I mean, I could see your logic in bringing Luke in here, but where would he play? Luke was upset in Seattle cause he felt he wasn't getting enough time as a player, why would he want to rot the bench in New York behind Marbury, Francis and Crawford? This isn't NBA live, Seattle WOULD NOT, I repeat WOULD not accept Robinson for Ridnour, you cannot prove this wrong, ever. Stop even trying to cover up your mess, you're being stubborn as hell right now.

    Then show us your suggestions on how we could move the other guards and keep Marbury to team up with Ridnour. Marbury is a PG, you don't UNDERSTAND. Marbury is a PENETRATION PG, who's very good, even though he's on the decline. Marbury > Ridnour.
    Last edited by metrocard; Jan 04, 2008 at 13:26.

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