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Thread: The thread to end them all: Post your plan to fix Knicks here

  1. #31
    Superstar The 1 and Only's Avatar
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    I'm loving the self-proclaimed wins LOL. Go take your participation trophy and good luck on your future discussions...looks like you know Corliss personally? You know NO ONE IN THE NBA LOL. Dag you copy and pasted that straight from a website didn't you? And you thought you could impress us all LOL. I'm glad you're having fun because I am. And look at all the similarities in comments...

    To Don...
    " you're being stubborn as hell right now."

    Dag you already used this 70 times already...anything new to cover up your losses?

    To MSGKnickz33
    "This is obviously a homer post that shouldn't even be read."

    Whoops another disagreement, another diss to the poster....sorry MSGknickz33...you've spoken too deep for him...I think you need to break it down a lil further.

    To Me
    "You've step your game up in this thread even if you did lose"
    Well dag I didn't know we were keeping standings on who wins or loses a debate. Dag, looks like you have 3...4....maybe 5 people disagreeing with you...and I've lost? haha....think again

  2. #32
    Next season, keep waiting donchris's Avatar
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    Metro where have you been? We had three days of peace here at KOL. Well looks like you missed my point once again. Marbury has to walk the very blurry line of being the floor general and top scorer for the New York Knicks. Every one can see that the Knicks are a better team with him scoring but we still need him as a point guard because there really is no one else. I don't see what you are not getting about this. The point was simply to move Marbury to SG, just like Larry Brown suggested last season and just like LB did with Iverson. Luke Ridnoir barley started this season; Seattle sucks this year and will be looking to make changes. I'm sure NY can come up with some kind of small trade for Luke because he is underrated as you just pointed out. In Luke we would not need a score. His job would be to pass and make plays. So Ridnoir would not or should not ride the bench. We'd move Steph to the two spot and Luke the one. I think I even outlined the line up in my post. Now who's not reading? And look, I did it in under a thousand words. You should try it some time.

  3. #33
    Knicks Guru hometheaterguy's Avatar
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    There is no quick way to fix the Knicks. The Knicks biggest problem is the strangle hold that their cap situation has on them as a franchise. Then, the next problem is the mix of talent that they have. The Knicks have very telented players but as a group, they are inconsistent and their styles clash. What is going to help the Knicks is minimal moves that go against the cap (long term contracts to ailing veterans). Good drafting and slary dumping (the latter being the hardest task). Buy out Rose's contract and (if he is untradable) Frances's contract. Take the hit this year and get it off the cap. Trading Frances to Memphis for Jones will not happen. Memphis is loosing money at a deadly rate so they will not trade an exipirng contract for an ailing Frances. Teams (with a compitent GM) only trade expiring contracts for a veteran player with some value from a team that is dumping salary. Memphis and Philly want to dump salary not take on cap hits. If they are to take on a contract, it MUST be a needed player! Like a dominate defensive 4. KG, Gasol or Brand's contract is worth the hit but impossible for NY to get because of the lack of talent to give back. A more plausible trade would be (not saying it is a legit prospect) Crawford or Q-rich for Eaton Thomas. Frye for Josh Smith. I read so many people that want to ship Frye for Artest but we are so loaded up with small players that Artest actually crowds the roster and causes the Knicks to just sit players that are making millions. If we could get the Kings to take one of the guards in the trade, like Crawford, then it makes sense. Also, I like Crawford as a sixth man who plays both the 1 and the 2. So I would like to keep him and try to obtain the needed spots with other players (but who?). Q-rich could be a great trade deadline move to a team that needs a high scoring 3-2 and try to get a more defensive minded 3 or 4 back. A player that doesn't look to score but is happy banging and defending his position. See if Boston wants to deal Jefferson and match him up with Curry. Curry is your scoring big man in the post and Jefferson is the banger. If Isiah is removed from the GM spot, I would try to keep him on as the talent scout. He does extremly well in the draft and he could finish out his contract in that role. It actually is better money spent!! Just, NO MORE LONG TERM CONTRACTS to aging vets that are breaking down or guards!!!!!

  4. #34
    Knicks Guru hometheaterguy's Avatar
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    One quick note, Lamar Odem is a guy I would bring on as well. He has a huge contract but I think he does add tremdous value. Especially since he handles the ball like a PG and that would allow Steph to take on more of a 2 guard role. You run the offense through Odem and he can dish...

  5. #35
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    Thumbs down Abandon The Knicks - It's Ok!

    Ok, so I feel bad even posting this. I am not a Knicks fan, but don't particularly hate them. I'm a die-hard Lakers fan and proud of it, but I can't stand seeing you all suffer like you are. I'm writing to tell you that it is OK to abandon the Knicks!

    First off, I am not a fair-weather fan. I'm a die-hard, grow-up-in-the-town-and-own-it fan. I grew up in L.A. and root for the L.A. Kings, Dodgers, Lakers . . . and here is the real proof: I root for the RAIDERS! Even though they thoroughly suck and left L.A., it just isn't right to abandon the home team - NEVER!*

    *Unless you root for the poor Knicks. They are in the worst division in the league and barely treading water with a payroll that is, well, disgusting. Just think if the Yankees couldn't even make it over .500!

    *It is OK, this one time, call it an amnesty clause, call it the "Alan Houston" rule, call it sanity, leave the Knicks while you still can. They are sad. If teams could admit they've made a mistake with the Houston rule, you can too, now man-up and say good-bye to a team so full of pain and confusion that a Laker fan can't even bare to watch it.

    P.S. There is no reason to root for signing C-Webb. For the Knicks to sign a washed-up player who has nothing left in the tank and a huge price tag, I believe he needs to be a guard! Ouch!!! Sorry, but that just makes my side split every time I say it. Sorry, sorry, sorry.

  6. #36
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    Originally Posted by The 1 and Only
    I'm loving the self-proclaimed wins LOL. Go take your participation trophy and good luck on your future discussions...looks like you know Corliss personally? You know NO ONE IN THE NBA LOL. Dag you copy and pasted that straight from a website didn't you? And you thought you could impress us all LOL. I'm glad you're having fun because I am. And look at all the similarities in comments...

    To Don...
    " you're being stubborn as hell right now."

    Dag you already used this 70 times already...anything new to cover up your losses?

    To MSGKnickz33
    "This is obviously a homer post that shouldn't even be read."

    Whoops another disagreement, another diss to the poster....sorry MSGknickz33...you've spoken too deep for him...I think you need to break it down a lil further.

    To Me
    "You've step your game up in this thread even if you did lose"
    Well dag I didn't know we were keeping standings on who wins or loses a debate. Dag, looks like you have 3...4....maybe 5 people disagreeing with you...and I've lost? haha....think again
    What the hell is dag? I'm from NYC fool, don't bring that country grammer on me.

    How do I know Williamson personally, when I stated obvious? EVERYONE who follows basketball knows Corliss was an elite college player and is a 6th man of the year.

    God damn, why must you to pick up DonChris after he gets TKO'ed by each of one of my post? It seems like you two are in a serious relationship. Whenever I TKO one of you guys, you guys come quickly.

    Whats worse, you guys say the SAME THING. I'm honestly starting to think you both are the same people or just two "happy" guys really attached to each other.

    "Dag", you're very poor at defending your points. You just seem like you try to make your points, but you're afraid to hit the punchline. Atleast I'm helping you debate better and improve your debating skillls. So maybe when you troll or be a homer or an Isiahsexual in another forum, you would get so beat up like you do here.

    You look the L hard here man, you gave up, you couldn't reply back to any the of the points I made. You dropped ether on yourself once again. Honestly, you're not worth replying to you. Each time I read your post I feel my IQ drops. Step your game up, hop off of Isiah's and DonVito's nuts.

    Originally Posted by donchris
    Metro where have you been? We had three days of peace here at KOL. Well looks like you missed my point once again. Marbury has to walk the very blurry line of being the floor general and top scorer for the New York Knicks. Every one can see that the Knicks are a better team with him scoring but we still need him as a point guard because there really is no one else. I don't see what you are not getting about this. The point was simply to move Marbury to SG, just like Larry Brown suggested last season and just like LB did with Iverson. Luke Ridnoir barley started this season; Seattle sucks this year and will be looking to make changes. I'm sure NY can come up with some kind of small trade for Luke because he is underrated as you just pointed out. In Luke we would not need a score. His job would be to pass and make plays. So Ridnoir would not or should not ride the bench. We'd move Steph to the two spot and Luke the one. I think I even outlined the line up in my post. Now who's not reading? And look, I did it in under a thousand words. You should try it some time.

    Where have I been? Well, I'm employed. I don't know about you, I can't be here for 3 days straight like you. I don't have that kind of free time in my life to be sitting on the computer waiting for a person to post. But listen, I'm glad you waited for me for 3 DAYS, I'm obviously a special person in your life. Which isn't a good thing, cause I see how obsessed you get with people. You and 1nOnly seem kinda close. Honestly though, you should praise god I'm even taking the time to reply to your troll junk and you get the chance to read my text. I'm not saying I'm better than you, but you present garbage each time you post. You're so ignorant, you can't co-sign with the facts I lay down.


    Listen, Marbury has been one of my favorite players in the NBA the last 5 years. Marbury plays best when he's penatrating. When Marbury is a SG, he's playing off the ball. Marbury isn't an off guard. Nate Robinson is. Thats because Robinson cannot run an offense for his life. Marbury is very good offensively. He isn't a bad passer, he isn't the best, but he's above average. I can live with Marbury's passing. Marbury's best strength is his penatration, by far. There is no one in the NBA who can stop Marbury to the basket.

    DAMN, MARBURY AND ONE...watching the Bobcats game.

    As you see, Marbury is so powerful and quick, he can finish with the best of them. Marbury plays best when he's driving hard to the basket. He creates open oppurtunities for his teammates or he gets to the free throw line. He does something positive when he drives.

    Marbury sucks when he's standing around and dribbling. When Marbury has the ball, he should call for the pick and roll or just go on the drive.

    I don't mind having Marbury the PG of this team at all.

    The problem is, Marbury and Crawford cannot play together. Marbury needs a consistant shooter. What I mean, is a guy who can shoot 45% not 35%. A guy who can shoot 38-40% 3pt, not below 33%. That guy isn't JAMAL CRAWFORD. Jamal Crawford is a great kid and all, but his style doesn't fit New York. Speaking of style, someone here wrote a GREAT post, I'm going to reply to.

    Iverson played SG in Philadephia cause he got to play next to Eric Snow. Ridnour is NOT Eric Snow. Eric Snow is a defensive minded PG, who is still one of the best defensive PG's in the NBA. Eric Snow can guard both guards, and he can run the offense. Plus he doesn't demand alot of shots. Luke Ridnour is a good passer, but not GREAT. Plus, Ridnour is 6" or 6"1. If Marbury is going to play SG, we're going to need a big PG like Eric Snow. Its a totally different situation. Plus, Marbury is a poor man's Iverson. We need to develop our own indentity. The 76ers team was a special team led by Iverson and really great defensive unselfish players. We don't have great defensive unselfish players to let Marbury play freely and score. We have a totally different team and you have to accept THAT.

    Sorry, but you've yet to make a point. I asked you WHY Seattle would trade Luke Ridnour for Nate Robinson straight up, and you've failed to tell me this. You're really wasting my time here. I just feel like I'm giving good information to you for nothing. What have you gave me? Garbage. Nate Robinson isn't as good as Ridnour or will ever be. That trade is ridiculous and Seattle would decline that trade.

    Luke started 33 out of 35 games...You said he barely started? Make some sense for once. The man is averaging 33 minutes a game.


    Anyway, your outline looks like crap now since I "murked" all of your suggestions and you've failed to present an explanition why my idea of getting under the cap or not making any trades except for draft picks or expiring contracts wasn't right.

    I'm finished with you, you're not worth replying to if you aren't going to admit you were obviously wrong or DEFEND yourself and prove your points.

    Originally Posted by hometheaterguy
    There is no quick way to fix the Knicks. The Knicks biggest problem is the strangle hold that their cap situation has on them as a franchise. Then, the next problem is the mix of talent that they have. The Knicks have very telented players but as a group, they are inconsistent and their styles clash. What is going to help the Knicks is minimal moves that go against the cap (long term contracts to ailing veterans). Good drafting and slary dumping (the latter being the hardest task). Buy out Rose's contract and (if he is untradable) Frances's contract. Take the hit this year and get it off the cap. Trading Frances to Memphis for Jones will not happen. Memphis is loosing money at a deadly rate so they will not trade an exipirng contract for an ailing Frances. Teams (with a compitent GM) only trade expiring contracts for a veteran player with some value from a team that is dumping salary. Memphis and Philly want to dump salary not take on cap hits. If they are to take on a contract, it MUST be a needed player! Like a dominate defensive 4. KG, Gasol or Brand's contract is worth the hit but impossible for NY to get because of the lack of talent to give back. A more plausible trade would be (not saying it is a legit prospect) Crawford or Q-rich for Eaton Thomas. Frye for Josh Smith. I read so many people that want to ship Frye for Artest but we are so loaded up with small players that Artest actually crowds the roster and causes the Knicks to just sit players that are making millions. If we could get the Kings to take one of the guards in the trade, like Crawford, then it makes sense. Also, I like Crawford as a sixth man who plays both the 1 and the 2. So I would like to keep him and try to obtain the needed spots with other players (but who?). Q-rich could be a great trade deadline move to a team that needs a high scoring 3-2 and try to get a more defensive minded 3 or 4 back. A player that doesn't look to score but is happy banging and defending his position. See if Boston wants to deal Jefferson and match him up with Curry. Curry is your scoring big man in the post and Jefferson is the banger. If Isiah is removed from the GM spot, I would try to keep him on as the talent scout. He does extremly well in the draft and he could finish out his contract in that role. It actually is better money spent!! Just, NO MORE LONG TERM CONTRACTS to aging vets that are breaking down or guards!!!!!
    Great post. Its well presented, so many points were made in this post, its hard to even disagree. I co-sign with everything you say.

    People in here think we could trade for Garnett, but like you said, we lack the talent and expiring contracts like Chicago to be in the Garnett sweeptakes.

    I agree also, Crawford should be the 6th man.

    Agreed also, enough with the long term contracts.

    Only thing i can't see happending is Jefferson leaving the Celtics. He's as good as Eddy Curry, who shows alot of potential. He's averaging 13 and 10, in less TO's. Curry is obviouslly better than Al J, but Al J is a superior player in his 3rd year than Eddy was. I'm suprised cause I thought he would be a bust.

    About Artest, he plays 3 positions, so having him would make us deeper, plus, he can fill Fyre's production times 10.

    But on the real note, this is a well written post. Credit is given to you. I would like you to post here more, cause you obviously understand the CAP SYSTEM, rebuilding and you're full aware of the future of the Knicks.

    We have a talented roster, no doubt about this. But their styles do no match to be a playoff caliber team. We need to make moves that doesn't hurt us in the cap yet again, and address that issue. This means, get rid of Francis, Robinson. Keep Marbury and Crawford. Crawford can play back up PG/SG. Especially since he has great chemistry with Curry, and he's a streaky shooter. Q-Rich can play the SG. We should try to ship Fyre and a player with a contract that can match up for Artest. A simple move that would give us an enforcer on defense to play with a front court of Lee and Curry.

    Marbury
    Richardson
    Artest
    Lee
    Curry

    That is the most balanced line up I can possible think of it. It gives us everything. Penatration with Stephon, Shooting and versitility with Q, an enforcer in Artest, hustle rebounds and banging in the post with Lee, and dominant post scoring with Curry. If we build from that, we could be playoff contenders and be competitive once again.


    hometheaterguy, Lamar Odom is also one of my favorite players in the league. I feel bad, because he's untradable right now. Lakers are winning games, and its because of how well Odom fits in the triangle offense. Lakers have a great young team with the most talented player in the NBA. I think they have a good chance going far in the playoffs, not in the WCF, but I believe they can get out of the first round. Especiailly with the fight they gave PHX last year in 7 games.

    Guys like Odom and Artest would balance this team so much.


    Once again, I'm glad I took the time to read your post. I guess I didn't waste my time here, I lost hope when I read DonChris and 1NOnly non logical homeristic post and insults. Glad to see a real Knick fan talk about some real stuff.
    Last edited by metrocard; Jan 04, 2008 at 12:18.

  7. #37
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    Are you guys seeing a pattern here? Just when you think the Knicks are getting better, they get their butts kicked by a scrubby team like the Bobcats.

  8. #38
    Superstar The 1 and Only's Avatar
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    Mos def. But you have to realize this is a young, developing team. We're going to play up and down. This is a complete upgrade from what we had from last year which is evidence of improvement. I like...in fact I love improvement. But there are some people on this forum that have so much hatred for Isiah, that they let it overshadow the positives...but then again...these people that I'm talking about lack knowledge.

  9. #39
    Knicks Guru hometheaterguy's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by The 1 and Only
    Mos def. But you have to realize this is a young, developing team. We're going to play up and down. This is a complete upgrade from what we had from last year which is evidence of improvement. I like...in fact I love improvement. But there are some people on this forum that have so much hatred for Isiah, that they let it overshadow the positives...but then again...these people that I'm talking about lack knowledge.
    As far as Knowledge, Isiah has destroyed every thing he has touched since taking on front office jobs. As a player, he was one of the best but he is the pits when it comes to building a franchise! His only strength is drafting. The Knicks need to make subtle moves to improve this roster. Dan Gadzuric is another player that I can think of that could help this team and not break the bank while be exactly the type of player they need.

  10. #40
    Superstar The 1 and Only's Avatar
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    I'm all for subtle moves. I was never against subtle moves. But when you want to change the whole franchise in 1 year and expect to win...that's not realistic. That's radical...

  11. #41
    Knicks Guru hometheaterguy's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by The 1 and Only
    I'm all for subtle moves. I was never against subtle moves. But when you want to change the whole franchise in 1 year and expect to win...that's not realistic. That's radical...
    Making a few player moves is not drastic if they are smart moves, not moves just to make moves. The reality is that the Knicks will NEVER be under the cap! That is a fact! With players pulling in the type of salaries that they do now adays it is impossible to get under the cap for most teams. The Knicks have a lot of talent on the team. Most of the players are very talented but they do NOT mesh together. I think there are teams that that could use some of our players to give them that missing player. We are probably, in my opinion, 3 players away from making this a top team. My issue with the franchise is Isiah and his ability to pick those very guys. He is not able to do that, he has never been able to make those matches. We need a GM that has that ability and you would see a complete change with the Knicks.

  12. #42
    Superstar The 1 and Only's Avatar
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    You basically have two options...you can take this team and take the time for talent and chemistry to develop and we'll be a strong force in 2-3 years. Or you could trade the whole team over a span of a year and a half and risk of destroying everything in which Isiah has built. Do you want Curry to fall to his old self? Do you want starbury to turn back to his human alter-ego? Do you want our rebounding to go down the drain? Well if you change the team that fast, you risk destroying chemistry which will trickle down and affect each of the notions I just named. Chemistry is the most important aspect in the game of basketball. More important than Defense and Offense because chemistry in in both defense and offense. If you make trades at the rate that most of these people want them....we won't be a winning team for awhile. Rebuilding takes time. Not one season and prolly not two seasons. Again I'm all for subtle moves, as long as chemistry isn't affected. But people on this thread don't want a few moves...they want to change the whole team to the way they like it instead of making the team compete everynight. Subtle...I like that word...because that's the kind of moves (if any) we have to make if this rebuilding process is going to be successful.

  13. #43
    Next season, keep waiting donchris's Avatar
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    I'm seeing a lot of posts about trading Crawford and how other teams can benefit from him. The thing I don't get is why should we make another team better? We should focus on what will make this team better. It will take time. We are on the right track. More trades will ether get us more role players or add to the cap. Next year will be a much brighter year both financially and play wise.

  14. #44
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    Originally Posted by donchris
    . Next year will be a much brighter year both financially and play wise.

    i dunno how much brighter/better we will be next year (one can only hope), but we will be at 87m next year, which will mean we are still over the cap, with 13 players under contract, and our number one draft pick to sign..

    in 09, our payroll will again be at 87m, but we have the option to cut lee/nate/frye and balkman, bringing our payroll to 78m... still over the cap

    unless I.T. can pull off a miracle trade, the team we see , is the team we got for the next 2 years...

    the only thing i can add is GO-KNICKS

  15. #45
    Next season, keep waiting donchris's Avatar
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    There is nothing wrong with being over the cap. The issue the Knicks have is that they are WAY, WAY over the cap. The Salary Cap for the 2006-07 season will be $53.135 million. Next season the cap changes to $65.42 million. Currently there are 24 teams above this cap. Teams whose team salary exceeds the cap figure will pay a $1 tax for each $1 by which it exceeds the cap. I don't think the goal is to get under the cap as much as it is to get close to it. The NBA uses a soft salary cap with salary exceptions that allow teams to go over the limit and pay less dollars in taxes. In my opinion if the Knicks keep the salaries under $70 million they will be in good shape.

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