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Thread: The thread to end them all: Post your plan to fix Knicks here

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    Originally Posted by metrocard


    Have you ever heard of defense? Even if AJ's contract expired, we wouldn't be under the cap, it doesn't make a difference.
    Forget the cap!King Dolan says MSG represents only 3% of the "Dolan financial Empire".He's got money!More money than God!!!! Let him be Steinbrenner,the Yankees of the NBA!!!!!The only reason Dolan says enough with the spending and 1 yr. to show improvement was because he assembled a roster that at 1st glance doesn't mix well together!!! In other words,he wants to make sure I.Thomas knows what he's doing!!And to see if Larry Clown can be proven wrong!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

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    Originally Posted by metrocard
    You said if again. Once again, you have no logic here. You're predicting the future. Mike James got 6 assist as a Raptor because he was a ball hog, he dominated the ball and was gone out of town. Thats your response? Because Mike James can do it, Luther Head can too? LOL...oh boy. Luther Head averages 4.1 assist per 48 minutes. He isn't in the NBA for his passing, he isn't going to be a 7 assist guy. Stop dreaming, predicting, and making up made up stories. Let me know when you want to come back to reality.

    Theres cheating in basketball now? Raja Bell wouldn't have been called a dirty player 10 years ago. Raja Bell plays physical tough defense. None of that soft Canadian crap. We need dirty defenders on this team, we have too many cupcake players like Curry and Crawford. Kobe scored alot, true but you don't understand what Raja Bell did. Raja Bell made Kobe go on 1 and 5 and isolate his teammates. This disrupted the Lakers offensive flow. When Kobe got Walton and Brown invovled Lakers were destroying the Suns, thats how it go to game 7. Kobe can score sure, but Raja Bell plays physical and tough on Kobe and challenges every shot. Kobe is just THAT good, no one is going to stop Kobe from scoring, but Raja Bell forced Kobe into going one and 5 and thats what makes Raja such a great defender. He forces his opponent out of the play. You probably never heard of the guy anyway. Go give him a hug already, what you're waiting for? The point is, Raja Bell is a GREAT basketball player, and you have no reason for not wanting him on this team.

    Now Carpy believes Kobe won 3 rings by himself. Why even debate that? He's trying to be stupid purposely. He's not even debating, he's agrueing over senseless things that make no sense. Kobe won 3 rings by himself? Raja Bell needs to be hugged instead of be on the Knicks? Luther Head is a passing PG? Its so many false statements in one post, it makes you think if this guy even follows the NBA. Stop talking about basketball, seriously.

    I was sarcastic, you talk about so much about your family on here, when someone talks about them back, you feelings get broken down into pieces. Just shut up already and talk about basketball. No one cares about your niece. Your niece is probably your NBA analyst...lol thats why your information is so inaccurate.


    Dude...wtf, are you even reading this thread correctly?

    hometheaterguy said:

    Dan Gadzuric is another player that I can think of that could help this team and not break the bank while be exactly the type of player they need.

    I agreed with him.


    You've failed to replied to this


    I would like Gerald Wallace here, but you don't even SAY who we would trade him for. Are you ****ing stupid? How did you obtain Wallace from the Bobcats and Head from the Rockets without any trades? Did you just magically pick them up off the street and sign them as free agents? If you forget (you probably did since your knowledge in the NBA is very limited), Gerald Wallace plays on the Bobcats. You need to TRADE to get Wallace. Same with Head.


    You even posted up the Knicks roster


    Carpy says:

    Marbury
    Crawford
    Wallace
    C.Frye
    E.Curry

    D.Lee
    Head
    R.Balkman
    Jeffries
    M.Collins
    K.Cato

    How did we get Wallace and Head without giving up nothing? Its a really bad statement by you. It made no sense. Bottyboy, the name of this thread is " The thread to end them all: Post your plan to fix Knicks here". Your plan is to get Wallace and Head to the Knicks without any trades? This is why you never played basketball or dealt with basketball professionally in your life.


    Another insult, which I'm not even going to reply to. You're the only one here who's offended. I laugh when you get mad, so you're only helping my entertainment. Thanks. Welcome to the ignore list.


    YOU LOST.
    Hey Metrocard,Dr.Carpy maybe stupid as you said on this last post of yours however,I've seen your posts on the other threads on this site!And from what I've seen,you don't have many bright ideas yourself!!!!!!!!! I would respect anything donchris has to say over anything that comes out of your wretched PIE-HOLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!

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    Looks like Metrocard is walking down ballsinyourjaws lane LOL.

    I can't wait til this season is over to prove to the world that the knicks will be a better team than last year...record and personnel is a big improvement from last year. That's all I'm asking for. If anyone would put the knicks before any of there favorite players (or most hated for some ignorant people) then he or she would want this team to be successful. But then again...some of you aren't knick fans so I shouldn't expect that. Some of you are so infuriated with Isiah that you realize that we are getting better. It's a pattern...when we win, no big deal... some are silent while others are pretty peaceful. But as soon as we lose one game...ya'll cry like little babies "oh I want Isiah fired" or "oh this team is garbage" or "let's fire him hire him and trade this guy"...like what somebody said before...this is a young fresh out the garden picked team...you MUST allow time for chemistry to develop. That usually takes at least half the season. But if I picked some one right off the street and asked them to characterize the stereotypical knick fan and they would describe most of you radical knick fans on this site (you know who you are)...radical, win-now, never wants to rebuild, praises today boos tommorrow, lacs patience, inconsistent, and lacks intelligence on how to run a team. And I would have to agree with them...because some of you people are the exact reincarnated characteristics of the ones I just named. Let the team get better through time...not trades...talent isn't a problem, it's the cohesiveness of this talent that is the problem. So while most of you want to trade your the whole team for a new pair of shoes...I'll say nothing...because Isiah is doing the right thing...LETTING THE TEAM BUILD CHEMISTRY.

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    Cool Check this out!

    Why don't any of you read between the lines! Frye is a VERY tradable commodity!If Isiah was able to sign Webber for the minimum,the lineup wouldn't change!Isiah,after signning Webber,would've immediately began negotiations with Seattle to trade Francis/Frye and maybe Nate to Seattle for Ray Allen.Francis's salary would match and Frye and maybe Nate would sweeten the pot!!!!!! We would still have Lee,Balkman and Jeffries!With Webber starting nothing much really changes,except we might get Ray Allen to boot! The KNICKS would still be overpaying but the talent mix would be more pleasing to the eye and the team chemistry would develop easier!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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    Originally Posted by George M.
    I would respect anything donchris has to say
    O really?

    Originally Posted by George M.
    No Don Chris,YOU ARE QUEER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Flip flopper?

    Originally Posted by George M.
    Forget the cap!King Dolan says MSG represents only 3% of the "Dolan financial Empire".He's got money!More money than God!!!! Let him be Steinbrenner,the Yankees of the NBA!!!!!The only reason Dolan says enough with the spending and 1 yr. to show improvement was because he assembled a roster that at 1st glance doesn't mix well together!!! In other words,he wants to make sure I.Thomas knows what he's doing!!And to see if Larry Clown can be proven wrong!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
    Then you don't want a winning Knicks franchise. Your line up is really poor defensively. Which is why I asked you do you know what defense is? We're one of the worst in the league at defense, you just made the line up worse.

    Its too late to say "enough with the spending." Isiah has made too many mistakes to do that right now.

    Isiah brougth Brown here, he obviously doesn't know what he's doing. Isiah has a new plan every year, he has no direction.

    A hundred explanation marks doesn't emphasize your point.

    What team are you on? the Knicks or the Isiahs? We're in trouble, and Isiah is one of the root problems.

    Originally Posted by George M.
    Why don't any of you read between the lines! Frye is a VERY tradable commodity!If Isiah was able to sign Webber for the minimum,the lineup wouldn't change!Isiah,after signning Webber,would've immediately began negotiations with Seattle to trade Francis/Frye and maybe Nate to Seattle for Ray Allen.Francis's salary would match and Frye and maybe Nate would sweeten the pot!!!!!! We would still have Lee,Balkman and Jeffries!With Webber starting nothing much really changes,except we might get Ray Allen to boot! The KNICKS would still be overpaying but the talent mix would be more pleasing to the eye and the team chemistry would develop easier!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    You want Webber on the Knicks now? Ray Allen is an all star SG. Fyre and Nate are average players and Francis has a terrible contract. Why would Seattle want another PG when they have Ridnour and Watson? It makes very little sense.

    Fyre shoots 43% from the FG. Thats extremely poor for a PF. Fyre doesn't rebound and his defense is one of the worst at the PF position. He's not even a great scorer, he only averages 10 points a game. He's very replacable. He isn't starting material, nor a franchise big man. He's just a 6"11 guy who can shoot, and when his shots doesn't go he's useless. He's very one dementional. Why would Seattle want Fyre? Collison is better than Fyre. All of Seattle's PG's are better than Robinson and Francis anyway. That trade MAKES no sense, and I don't understand why would Seattle want to degrade. When you make a trade prosopal, don't think like NBA Live, think of it from both sides, understand?

    The talent would be more pleasing to the eye? You mean on paper? Oh, didn't we say this a year or two ago? We had a very talented team on a paper? But what happend? We've lost 130 games over the last 3 years. Talent this, potential, that. Those are just words. You don't understand the concept of building a winning team.

    Cap space gives you the freedom to make more moves, you have more options when you have cap space. We don't have that many options, and when we do, it doesn't benefit us, but the other team.

    Isiah is totally wrong for even making all those trades, if it wasn't for Isiah, we wouldn't even have to be discussing this. We're in a blackhole thanks to Thomas.




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    One way to look at how a GM might artfully address the problem of acquiring a Gold Medal Superstar or even a Silver Medal Superstar and building a championship team is to look at the two greatest GMs in NBA history: Red Auerbach and Jerry West. The teams they built account for 24 of the 50 NBA titles since 1956. Their genius was constantly thinking several years ahead to put the Celtics and the Lakers in position to get a Gold Medal Superstar or a Silver Medal Superstar. They were unwilling to tank, per se, and always wanted to field contenders, but they were willing to sacrifice in the near term, to assume great risks, to increase the chances of getting a superstar down the road. They were patient, willing to wait for the right moment to make a deal and then they pounced on it. They knew that they needed superstars to win titles and that drove everything they did as GM.

    Red Auerbach lucked into Bob Cousy. But he traded away two all-stars for Bill Russell, because he alone saw that Russ would revolutionize the game. Then in 1962 he stole John Havlicek at the end of the first round because Hondo was planning to play pro football. Red rolled the dice that Hondo would not cut it in the NFL and he won. He got lucky that when the Cs dipped after Russell’s retirement, the NBA had a deep draft and he was able to get Dave Cowens fourth overall in 1970, behind Maravich, Lanier and Tomjanovich. Cowens was the best of the bunch. In 1978 Red drafted Bird sixth in the first round because he was willing to wait a year before Bird would enter the NBA. Imagine that! Five teams drafted players like Purvis Short and Rick Robey rather than wait one year on a talent like Bird. Incredible. Then in the mid-80s Red saw that the Bird era was nearing an end. He traded a starting point guard off his returning 1984 championship team – Gerald Henderson—to Seattle for a 1986 no. 1 pick. That took cajones. The pick turned into the no. 2 pick overall—Len Bias. Had Bias lived … those are the three most depressing words in the English language to Celtics fans.



    Jerry West

    Jerry West is every bit Red’s equal. He traded mediocre players like Don Ford (huhhh??) to impatient teams for distant future no. 1 picks that became the first picks overall in 1979 and 1982 – Magic and James Worthy. Then he systematically cleared cap space in the mid-90s because he knew Shaq would leave Orlando only for LA. And he traded a quality starting NBA center entering his prime, Vlade Divacs, for a high school guard taken in the mid-first round, Kobe Bryant. No one ever thought much of drafting guards out of high school… until Jerry West.

    Then, when West moved to Memphis in 2003, he came within a whisker of getting the first pick overall in the draft – what would have been LeBron James. Had West gotten James, teamed him with Gasol, and had all the time he needed to find complementary pieces, we may well have seen a team that would win 5-8 titles by 2020, if not more. West would be bigger than Elvis in Memphis and unquestionably the dominant figure in the history of the league and the sport. But, alas, West lost in the lottery and the Memphis pick was conveyed to the Pistons, who picked Darko second overall ahead of Anthony, Bosh and Wade.

    Now to some extent the Red-West approach is more difficult today because teams put lottery-protections on traded first rounders to prevent their losing a superstar. But three key rules have emerged: First: accumulate marketable assets so you can trade the surplus talent for future no. 1 picks. It means you had better draft well and be a good judge of talent. Eventually, if you are lucky you might get a chance to draft a potential superstar. This also keeps the payroll lower in the meantime.

    Second, try to get underneath the cap so you can strike for a quality free agent; i.e. do not waste long-term MLE-or-higher contracts on mediocre veterans unless you already have your Gold Medal Superstar or Silver Medal Superstar and are a serious contender, and the costly veteran player can be the difference to get you a flag. Do not blow cap space unless you are a contender or unless you are using your capspace on a superstar or a potential superstar, like Steve Nash, Ben Wallace or Gilbert Arenas. This second commandment means that teams that have no hope to contend should not be clogging the payroll with $30 million five year MLE deals on journeymen veterans every year. If a team has significant capspace it has to be willing to keep it for a season or two and wait for the right deal to come along. Don’t be pressured into blowing it.

    Third, be patient. Very patient. Impatience dooms any hope for success.

    For a while it looked like Jerry West had lost 20 mph off his GM fastball when he lost out in the LeBron sweepstakes after moving to the hapless Grizzlies in 2002-03. Don’t get me wrong: he did a terrific job turning a terrible team into a playoff team in short order, but he had only one possible superstar, Pau Gasol, and no hope of ever contending in the rugged western conference. He wasted valuable capspace on mediocrities like Brian Cardinal. It seemed like West was content to win 45-50 games and make the play-offs. He no longer was playing for all the marbles.

    But this summer it looks like West has rediscovered his championship mojo. Coming off a 49 win season he has basically blown the team up. He understands that Paul Gasol will not provide enough superstar firepower on his own to win a title, even if Gasol becomes an all-NBA performer, which he may. So West traded solid veteran Shane Battier for Rudy Gay, who, unlike Battier, has the potential to be a superstar. Gay probably won’t become one, but the possibility is there, as much as it was for any player in the 2006 draft. (This was a smart trade for Houston, too. They already have their superstar in Yao Ming and his sidekick in McGrady. What they need is to get them healthy and now they have a superb complementary team player entering his prime in Battier.)

    West has also moved to create massive cap space next summer, which is directly out of his long-term playbook. It looks like West is even willing to dip into the 07 lottery if need be to come up with a much stronger core, and a potential superstar. The 07 draft looks to be one of the best in the past decade. The talent is so young it is not clear if we have another 1984 or 2003, but it is possible. West understands that Memphis’s marginal playoff team of the past few seasons will not cut the mustard, cannot hope to win a title, and it needed radical changes. Lots of GMs would not have the courage or foresight to do that. They would have settled for 50 wins and incremental improvement. Will it work? Who knows? The only thing certain is that the other option definitely would not have produced a flag. And a year from now Memphis team with Gasol, Gay, a high lotto pick in a deep draft and a big ticket free agent could be very interesting.

    The Red-West approach still is the only program that makes any sense, short of lucking into a LeBron James. But it takes more skill than ever. And it takes a boatload of luck. Two teams that recently showed this artistry were Phoenix and Chicago. Not surprisingly, their GMs are among the most respected in the NBA. For starters, these are two teams that systematically created cap space while patiently building talented young teams. They were able to use the cap space to acquire Steve Nash and Ben Wallace. But that is just the beginning.

    Coming off a 62-20 season in the summer of 2005, Phoenix already had Nash, Marion and Stoudemire. Rather than sign Joe Johnson to a huge deal and put the Suns in luxury tax land, the Suns traded him to the Hawks for Boris Diaw and the Hawks no. 1 in 2007 (top 3 protected) or 2008 (unprotected). This looked like a surprising willingness by a contender to field a weaker team in the near term – Diaw’s play last season came as a great surprise. But look where the Suns are: if the Hawks provide them with a high lotto pick in 07 or 08 it has a chance to become a very special player, even a superstar. The Suns look to be a 55 plus win team without that pick for years – with it they could become a champion, and a contender for a decade. Perhaps even a dynasty. Red tips his hat. Maybe this is why West decided to go back to the drawing board in Memphis.

    Chicago faced a similar dilemma with Eddy Curry, a superb offensive center who is average otherwise. Rather than sign him to a huge cap-clogging deal that would have still left the Bulls short of a needed superstar, the Bulls traded him to the Knicks for a 2006 no. 1 and the right to swap no. 1 picks in 2007. This, in effect, meant that the Bulls were conceding that they would not improve much or at all in 2006 over 2005. That took guts because the Bulls went from 23 to 47 wins from 04 to 05 and were regarded as a team on the immediate rise. Impatient fans and pundits were chomping on the bit for immediate glory. But it was also a team that lacked a Gold Medal Superstar, or a viable candidate to become one. The 2006 pick became Tyrus Thomas, and the jury is out on him, but he possesses intriguing talent. The 2007 pick will likely be in the lottery, possibly the top half of the lottery. Moreover, the trade meant the Bulls stayed beneath the salary cap to be able to sign Ben Wallace, and the Bulls may possibly remain under the cap in the summer of 07. This trade could be the difference between the Bulls having a very nice young team with many very good players to becoming a team that can win titles.


    Few teams think like this, as far as I can tell. Or at least few fans and fewer pundits. Consider the Boston Celtics, the team I follow. The fans there are desperate, as is star player Paul Pierce, to have a winner, to see basketball in May, not to mention June. Danny Ainge has done a nice job of assembling many talented young players, though it is unlikely there are any Gold Medal Superstars in the mix. By all rights the team needs at least two seasons before it can be a 50 win team, and even that would be soon in view of the team’s youth. Pundits and Boston sportswriters almost universally implore Danny Ainge to trade away talented young players and draft choices so the team can fill needs with reliable veterans and win more in the near term. (See, for example: [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]) “You have to get good before you can get great, so the sooner you get good, the sooner you can get great,” the logic goes.

    Danny’s dilemma is similar to that of many teams. He has drafted brilliantly and has a nice core, and if he trades one or two kids and no. 1 picks for vets and signs MLE free agents every year for 5 year $30 million deals, he can probably get a 50 win team. He’ll have the Boston sportswriters like Peter May hooting and hollering in excitement like a 12 year old boy watching his first porno film. But unless Al Jefferson or Gerald Green or Sebastian Telfair becomes a Gold Medal Superstar – highly unlikely, in my view – there is no chance of racking up a title in that approach.

    Fortunately Danny has ignored them so far, because this approach would simply give short term improvement at the expense of stripping the team of valuable long-term assets and adding more salary to the payroll. This is what the pre-Ainge Celtics did when they traded, in effect, rookie Chauncey Billups, soon-to-be no. 1 pick Shawn Marion and rookie Joe Johnson in three idiotic trades for grizzled and mediocre veterans Kenny Anderson, Vitaly Potapenko and Rodney Rogers. The deals filled needs in the near term, made the team slightly better, and left the franchise a mess for years.

    I believe Ainge actually gets it – he has accumulated draft choices, he has stockpiled talented young players with real market value for trades, and he looks to be clearing cap space for two of three years down the road if need be -- but he is under considerable pressure to produce right now. The truly gutsy thing for Ainge to do goes entirely against the grain of the conventional wisdom: it would be to trade away one or two of his more marketable young players, those he thinks have inflated value, for future no. 1 picks. The idea is not to tank, but to try to win with Pierce and the remaining kids and hope to use someone else’s lottery picks to locate a superstar. (As General Patton told the troops just before D-Day: You don’t become a hero by dying for your country. You become a hero by making the enemy die for his country.) And if it takes another year for the Celtics to escape the lottery, that is not the worst thing on earth if the young players are playing and developing. Especially in 2007.

    To do this would take guts. It would require smart and brave owners. It would involve tremendous risk and possibly leave the team weaker in the near term and even in the long term. Peter May would go on a hunger strike until Ainge was fired. But is would also open the possibility for the Celtics to get the sort of player who can lead this team to the finals, and to victory. Unless Ainge is willing to take risks like these, I don’t see how the fine young team he is assembling plays basketball in June. Not with Mr. James and Mr. Wade and Mr. Howard and the Bulls holding forth in the eastern conference for the next decade.

    Let’s face it, probably 26 or 27 NBA teams will not win titles in the next decade. The odds are terrible. Lots of these teams will be really talented and really good, and some will be outstanding, like the recent Sacramento Kings. If a team wants to exit those ranks and actually win a title, it needs to go against the conventional wisdom and take supreme risks, it has to do so artfully, and it needs a lot of luck. Fortunately for the brave GM, not many NBA GMs are taking that approach right now. Patience is a virtue they believe they cannot afford. The short term pressures make it rational to pursue a policy that strongly reduces the chance for the team to get a Gold Medal Superstar and to win an NBA title.

    Is your team playing to win?
    Read that information, educate yourself. Isiah isn't establish a winning team. Talent on paper doesn't equate to what happends on the court. We have alot one dementional players who don't play defense. Marbury and Richardson have been our best perimeter defenders and they've never been known for defense, thats TERRIBLE.

    Do you ever hear the Garden chant "OFFENSE, OFFENSE!" Neva, they chant DEFENSE, DEFENSE. This is what we don't have. We haven't had defense in a while. Defense is what wins. Phoneix have improved their defense, they defend the 3pt shot very well and are the best in the NBA at it. Thats why Phoneix has the 2nd record in the NBA.

    Chill with the insults, you seem like an Isiah support who's upset. DonChris is a poor poster who's written so many bad post he had to go on my ignore list. I've owned him in this thread already. I'm not going to throw insults at you, I want to see you debate for yourself without insults. Learn the difference between agrueing and debating too. Keep it clean and reasonable. If something doesn't sound right, don't say it. Don't say false things to emphasize your point or help yourself.

    And doing this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! doesn't emphasize your point, it makes you look like a child.
    Last edited by metrocard; Jan 17, 2007 at 12:04.

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    Next season, keep waiting donchris's Avatar
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    I'm really not comfortable with my name being put in every one of your posts. Come on give it a rest. Is there no limit to your ignorance? This kid is new and he sees right through you. PATHETIC! I'll admit the idea of Francis for Allen is far fetched but at least it's original, which is more than I can say for your last 15-20 posts. Here's some friendly advice. Focus more on content then insults and you may actually make a point and may be, may be get some respect.

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    As far as the trade for Ray Allen goes,if he aquired Webber like he wanted to,the possibilty for such a trade opens up!!!! I was only giving a possible insight into what Thomas was thinking!And by the way,we're not great on defense now so who cares!! If you can't see that with the Eastern Conference as bad as it is,Thomas is only one or two proper moves from making them a deep playoff threat.Just start with Curry and the offensive philosophy and follow the lines from there. Yo donchris,I apologize for any poor remarks from me because I didn't see through this Metrocrud yo-yo imediately!! It took a while so I apologize!!!!! Hey Metrocrud,if you don't like my comments,Go "F" Yourself!!!!!!!!! I love my!!!!!!!'s you twit!!

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    The Knicks have no real prayer of being under said cap until 2008/9,but short term,they are one perimeter threat starter at the 2 or the 3 alongside Q and Stephon and Curry from making tons of noise in said Eastern Conference! Just watch them on offense and figure it out!Thomas already knows this,and I will be waiting at the trading deadline to see!!As long as he plays smart,and finds the right player for the right price!!!! If not,then he should draft 1 or 2 perimeter threats on Draft Day!!!!!

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    Originally Posted by George M.
    And by the way,we're not great on defense now so who cares!!
    Who cares? Knick fans care. We need defensive help. Defense wins championships. Defense can create your offense. A deep playoff threat? We're struggling to even compete in the Alanatic Divison. Isiah has us in a ****ty position.

    Twit? Where are you from? Alabama? lol.

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    Wow, these post are getting wild! I want to put my two cents in. Defense is key to wining a chamionship! Almost every team that has one the big game, has been a good to excellent defensive team. With out defense you are stuck trying to win by scoring on almost every posession. You have to match the other team but if you are having an off night, there is nothing to fall back on. If you are a solid fefensive team, you can fall back on your D to shut the other team down, keep the score close until you can strike. The Suns are a perfect example of this. They are the kings of the regular season but can't win the big game. It has been like that for years with them. At least now they have some sort of D when needed, but I would not say they are a great defensive team. They at least can hunker down and stop an apponent when needed. They realized this and that's why they traded for guys like Kurt Thomas and Bell. The Knicks need to get more defensive minded players to compliment their core scorers. Frye, for example, is a good scorer and will in time be a top scorer in the league. His problem is he can not body anyone up. He will grab a few rebounds and block a shot but he can not impose his will on someone. He can not stop anyone with his physical presence. R Wallace is a perfect example of the complete package. He can defend and score. He has the ability to over take his opponent. Curry on the other hand is 300 pounds and should be able to over take his apponent but doesn't. He want to be a finesse player. So you have 2 guys up front that do not take control of the paint. Lee does that to a degree but he is undersized and get's over taken by alot of 4s in the league. But out of sheer determination he can grab 10-11 bounds and make a few stops. That is the type of mentality the Knicks need from their players. Ray Allen is not the what the Knicks need. Yes, he is a great player but the Knicks get offensive production from their back court. They need D from the back court. Bell or Bowen is more the type of player the Knicks need to compliment Marbury, Robinson or Crawford when paired up. The Knicks need a Defensive big guy to compliment Curry and/or Frye when on the court. That make for a Balanced roster and lineup. Every team needs a dominate scorer or 2 on the court, just not all 5 at the same time! This is why you the the Knicks players standing around on the court. They just want to score and do not do much of anything else.

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    Exactly...even though we are far from a it, Defense wins championships. This goes back to my old school knicks where we had the no layup rule and other teams enforce this as well. But now, the league has gone soft, the players have gone soft and most are just overpaid cheerleaders. Most of these players that play now such as Lebron wouldn't be dropping almost 30 a game back in the day because it was a more physical game. I'm not saying he wouldn't still dominate but he wouldn't break down defenses as easily as he would 10-15 years ago. It saddens me when I see this knick roster and the only somewhat banger we have is david lee...1 player. We have some scrappy players but we need to be more physical. I see it sometimes in Eddy and Q-Rich when his in the post but we need more physical players. The rebounding is excellent right now because we're more athletic but not necessarily more physical. If we can beef up the PF position and get a defender then I say we're in good shape but I'd be satisfied if we can turn balkman into a stronger defender and show Frye and Curry how to be physical...

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    Originally Posted by hometheaterguy
    Wow, these post are getting wild! I want to put my two cents in. Defense is key to wining a chamionship! Almost every team that has one the big game, has been a good to excellent defensive team. With out defense you are stuck trying to win by scoring on almost every posession. You have to match the other team but if you are having an off night, there is nothing to fall back on. If you are a solid fefensive team, you can fall back on your D to shut the other team down, keep the score close until you can strike. The Suns are a perfect example of this. They are the kings of the regular season but can't win the big game. It has been like that for years with them. At least now they have some sort of D when needed, but I would not say they are a great defensive team. They at least can hunker down and stop an apponent when needed. They realized this and that's why they traded for guys like Kurt Thomas and Bell. The Knicks need to get more defensive minded players to compliment their core scorers. Frye, for example, is a good scorer and will in time be a top scorer in the league. His problem is he can not body anyone up. He will grab a few rebounds and block a shot but he can not impose his will on someone. He can not stop anyone with his physical presence. R Wallace is a perfect example of the complete package. He can defend and score. He has the ability to over take his opponent. Curry on the other hand is 300 pounds and should be able to over take his apponent but doesn't. He want to be a finesse player. So you have 2 guys up front that do not take control of the paint. Lee does that to a degree but he is undersized and get's over taken by alot of 4s in the league. But out of sheer determination he can grab 10-11 bounds and make a few stops. That is the type of mentality the Knicks need from their players. Ray Allen is not the what the Knicks need. Yes, he is a great player but the Knicks get offensive production from their back court. They need D from the back court. Bell or Bowen is more the type of player the Knicks need to compliment Marbury, Robinson or Crawford when paired up. The Knicks need a Defensive big guy to compliment Curry and/or Frye when on the court. That make for a Balanced roster and lineup. Every team needs a dominate scorer or 2 on the court, just not all 5 at the same time! This is why you the the Knicks players standing around on the court. They just want to score and do not do much of anything else.
    Exactly. Great post. You can't have 5 scorers on the court. Not even Phoneix is that stupid. Bell and Diaw aren't scorers, Bell is a spot up shooter who plays defense, and Diaw is an all around player who doesn't need to score. This compliments players like Nash, Marion and Amare. We need complimentary players for Marbury, Richardson and Curry. We already have David Lee. I believe if we trade for Artest, Marbury Richardson Artest would be one of the best 1-2-3's in the East.

    Like I said, defense wins. If you don't care about defense, you don't care about winning.

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    i thought "D" was the reason we signed jefferies???

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    Originally Posted by paris401
    i thought "D" was the reason we signed jefferies???
    You're right. But I've been disappointed with Jefferies, I've seen him get beat by him man alot, and you would think he's a good defender. I'll give him time though.

    George M. may be wrong, but I think understand where he's trying to come from. We're one move away from being good, I don't think we'll be playoff contenders, but we'll be legit.

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    Look Metrocard,If they sign Jamison in the offseason,that would make Frye expendable and he can play the 3 as well as the 4.And with Frye expendable,he being a young player every Gm wants,Thomas could then trade for lets say R.Lewis who can play the 2 as well as the 3.After that,Thomas can get matchups galore with those 2 versatile platers,which could make us legit contenders in the short term.If not,blow the team up by 2009,when Marbury and Francis's contracts expire.

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