i have to disagree with you.. when u state that stevie franchise has
'' little trade value ''... you are wrong.. he has 'no trade value'
other than that .. I AGREE....
2 years $8 mil to Vin Baker
5 years $30 mil to Jerome
5 years $30 mil to Jeffries
It just confuses me we spend that much money on subpar bench players. Jefferies is a good defender, and a balanced player with some flaws, but he's not worth that much money. He's a role PLAYER.
I can't believe we didn't sign Ariza to the MLE, he's doing big things now in Orlando. Instead we sign a career 16 minute per game 30 year old fouling machine to a 5 year deal. Its decisions like that confuses me on what direction we're heading with Isiah. Obviously NO where.
When I look into more and more, I just think Isiah became GM of the Knicks to improve other franchises.
With Chicago, he took their garbage in Crawford and Curry. Sign and trades, he traded away expiring contracts, multiple first round players. Sure, we understand Tyrus Thomas isn't 1/5th the talent Curry is, but we gave Chicago the opportunity to improve as a team and sign key free agents such as Ben Wallace. We took their problems and added more bad contracts to our roster.
Phoneix? Oh man, Isiah should be credited the MVP award. If it wasn't for Thomas, there would be no Nash/D'Antoni. No two peat MVP awards for Steve Nash. You wouldn't see the Suns in the WCF every year. Instead you would see Marbury and Penny burying that franchise with young talents such as Johnson, Barbosa, Amare, Marion not benefiting from the D'Antoni system.
But no, Isiah had to trade every expiring contract he had and 3 draft picks for two of the worst contracts in the NBA, Marbury and Penny's contract. This open everything up for Phoneix. They get enough cap space to sign their franchise player in Steve Nash, and a key role player in Q-Rich. So we took two players who were on the decline with very little value cause of their contract? They get paid to play like all stars, when they produce below the all star level.
Orlando? Well, we did them the biggest favor. We took Francis off their hands, we took another bad contract, and another player with little trade value who's on the decline. Steve Francis isn't the Franchise anymore, he's not all star, but yet Isiah has accepted to pay him like one. We gave Orlando a steal in Ariza. Now Ariza is excelling in Orlando, he's been the best foward in Orlando, out playing Hill, Turk, Battie and Darko. A big young suprise for Orlando. Also because of the Francis trade, Arroyo has gotten minutes and helped Orlando's 2nd unit. Now Orlando has a bench with chemistry.
Even with drafting, he obviously spots talent easily, he has one of the best eyes for talent in the NBA with his history in Toronto drafting Camby, T-Mac, Stoudamire. But as GM of the Knicks, the only great picks he's made were Lee and Ariza. now Ariza is gone. Robinson was drafted over Jarrett Jack. Fyre was drafted over Bynum. Sean May looks superior to Fyre in every possible way. Granger was one of the best wing players to be drafted in 05', we let him go also. I understand not everyone can't have the PERFECT draft, but nothing never goes our side where it benefits us the most. We drafted a 2nd round pick Balkman over a pass first PG in Marcus Williams, hell even Rudy Fernandez who's been great for Portland, and other talents in the draft such as Rajon Rondo. Why can't we ever get the best our of the situation we're in? WE NEED NEW MANAGEMENT.
I was also displeased with Isiah's deal with the coaches. Brown was totally unprossesional with his job in New York, but I can't believe Isiah invited Brown to town anyway. We obviously lacked defensively players. If you looked at the roster we had, anyone with common sense could of seen Brown and that roster would never see eye to eye. From Chaney to Lenny to Herb to Brown to now Isiah...how can we ever build chemsitry when we had 5 different coaches in the last 3 years? Plus you add that with all the trades Isiah make up, its very confusing trying to find out Isiah's logic and his plan. Now we're the same record as we were last year 13-21.
I'm not even going to blame ALL OF this on Isiah, I realize Isiah isn't the only guy at the front office, I have beef with Cablevision/Dolan.
Isiah has had 3 years to get under the salary cap, he had the CHANCE to get under the cap, but he refused to go that direction, instead he went backards.
Lets look FOWARD, and move to a more positive direction for this franchise, its a new year and I'm all for new management. I've come to admit Isiah's ability for reconizing talent, and his coaching ability to communicate with his players. Isiah's coaching ability is like Herman Edwards, good communicator with his players, but terrible with the x and o's (GO JETS). I'm not trying to bitch here, or cry or however you may look at it, I'm just pointing out whats wrong right now, and it begins with the management, because thats been the main problem the last 3-5 years. We have a talented core group of players, but their value are down because the lack of production due to playing together, their flats are deflated. This makes it harder to trade a Marbury, or a Francis, or a Crawford.
I'm gonna smoke a blunt, that Kings lost was painful, especially knowing we could of traded Fyre for Artest.
Last edited by metrocard; Jan 15, 2007 at 13:31.
i have to disagree with you.. when u state that stevie franchise has
'' little trade value ''... you are wrong.. he has 'no trade value'
other than that .. I AGREE....
I don't agree... Ariza stinks... by far Isiah's worst discovery
All he can do is dunk... almost threw a party when we traded him.
you just wrote the post of the year! I didn't know J.Jack was chosen over Nate. As for Ariza, I miss him. I always thought he could be molded into a Knick version of Tayshaun Prince.
Good post man. But not to side with Isiah even though I hope he succeeds so we don't change our coach for the 6th time in 6 years, but you have to realize what trash he had when he came here. He tried to make the knicks a more athletic, young team and that's exactly what he did. We had no marquee players here other than H20 but he then trades for Coney Island native Starbury and every knick fan's eye lights up with hope. He never I repeat never had a bad season untill LB arrived and that's because he gave into the team concept. And he had to get Jerome James because we had no Center at the time. I agree with you...he is trash. But he's 7'2...he had something that we lacked and that's height. But he should have never gotten him for the long term because anyone is better than Jerome. Dag Cato is better than James. I was also mad when Ariza was traded but I see more in Balkman than what I see in Ariza. Balkman is just as good a finisher as Ariza plus he's a better rebounder and defender and helpside blocker. Let's just give him some time to develop. And I really don't know who was responsible for hiring the coaches, whoever did it...did a poor job. We just have to remember to get talent he had to take on bad contracts, he had no cap space. And the whole league knew this so they took advantage of it. Look at the talent of our team and ask yourself, could another GM do any better? This actually a talented team it's just that it needs a little more time to develop. We actually see fight in the Knicks. FIGHT! How long was it that we actually saw spunk in the knicks? How long was it that we take on some of the leagues best teams into overtime and rip their manhood from them? Time will tell. Again good post man.
bsz, I'm sorry, but watch Ariza play in Orlando, he's been their 2nd best player behind Dwight Howard. Balkman is nice, he's accually better defensively compared to Ariza, but Ariza is great defensively, and his offense has been very improved, he's been a consistant slashy(what we're missing from the SF position). Ariza as good defensively, and a superior offensively player, but Balkman gives you more agressive. It doesn't matter do, we could of had both BALKMAN AND ARIZA. It pains me more to see Ariza in Orlando, all my friends from Orlando now clown on me, they're so excited having Ariza.
Listen, I love Balkman's game, but we still could of KEPT Ariza, and still have Balkman. Playing Balkman at the 4, Ariza at the 3, Richardson at the 2 Collins at the 1 Lee at center...thats a SERIOUS defensive shut down line up. We become more versitle, VERY FAST TEMPO team, who can put alot of pressure on defense.
Forget that...imagine if we drafted Marcus Williams, then drafted Balkman after that and kept Ariza. That alone would be a squad. Williams/Richardson/Ariza/Lee/Curry. Talk about set for the future, anyway. Its right infront of Isiah, Isiah could of had this team in the right direction, but it he always seems to choose the wrong path.
Good post Metro.
1 and only, we could have had Desanga Diop for a cheaper price. He is younger and as tall as James. He did or is doing great things for Dallas.
Eddy Curry is by the numbers the 3 best center in the NBA. Yeah he isn't the best defender. But how could we have traded Frye for Artest? Their salaries aren't remotely close. The Knicks lost last night. So what. NBA bigs take the longest to develop. Curry is now starting to function like a NBA center. Six years later. Except for exceptional talents, Ewing, Shaq, Duncan, and Garnett what NBA Big body steps in and contributes right away? Dwight Howard still looks lost on offense. And there are nights when Amare looks human. Dirk Nowitzki is now learning how to rebound. We signed Jerome James at around 6 per. In NBA standards, thats a moveable contract. So is Jeffries at the same mark. At the same token Imagine this, imagine that game is time well wasted. Imagine if the Knicks weren't over the cap? Too bad folks, We are, so we need to deal with whats in front of us. Ben Wallace is 33. He was partly the reason why they (Detroit) won against the Lakers, but the reason why (Detroit) lost to San Antonio the next year. Thats why Chicago is looking for another inside presence. Ben Wallace gives the Bulls zero on offense. Chicago overpaid for him, and he is far more "untradeable" than JJ. Reality is that the rebuilding phase truly begins in February 2008 when Marbury and Francis's 36 Mil come of the books. Truth is and bitch and she bites folks. Til then we get our young guys minutes and some seasoning. We need an outside threat to help Eddy Curry. It's unfair to expect worldbeaters from such a young group of guys. Frye, Curry, Lee, Balkman, Jeffries are all still learning! Give it time. If you've been a fan, for any amount of time, what's another two years? Guessing games and ideal circumstances aren't what we are dealing with. Hindsight is always 20/20. If this response is taken as a slight so be it. I hope maturity prevails and this is viewed for what it is. MY Opinion. Save the Isiah sexual stuff for the Jerry Springer Knicks Forum.
P.S. I like Ariza, but with Grant Hill On his team, you think he would learn how to shoot (Mid Range and Three). I also said we should look at Jarett Jack like last year, feel free to read the archive posts. Everyone hear thought I was crazy for wanting to move Marbury. Anyone still think I'm crazy now? Again, evidence that hindsight is 20/20.
This is NY we're talking about. An impatient city. The smartest thing for Thomas to have done is to let all the contracts expire so that we could make a quick run at a franchise player but that was never going to happen. Not in NY when they won’t wins yesterday. He had to bring in new blood. So wave bye to Charlie Ward, Kurt Thomas and Antonio McDyse. And now we have Marbury, Richardson and down the line we brought in Curry and Crawford. These four players are much better than what we had.
dr.carpy, if you were absent last year, the Pacers showed alot of interest for Channing Fyre. Obviously other players would of been involved to match the salaries. Isiah once again went with his ego and his pride and put it over the Knicks franchise. It was a bad decision
Dirk Nowitzki is now learning how to rebound? Thats a funny sentence. Dirk has never been a banger, but thats his game. He still manages to get 9-10 rebounds a game. He's always been a good rebounder, forget the fact he's 7 foot, not all 7 footers are elite rebounds, because they don't have the quickness and explosiveness off the ground like a Shawn Marion and Elton Brand, alot of the times the 6"8 guys are the superior rebounders cause of their quick jump off the floor and Dirk has always been with the elites in the NBA in total rebounds. He just learned to rebound? HA, Dirk has been averaging 9 rebounds per ever since he became a starter in Dallas.
Amare just came from an injury thats suppose to take 2 years of full recovory. He just came from a 25+/18 rebound game against Chicago. Amare when healthy is one of the big big men in the NBA. He was unstoppable in the playoffs against Duncan and the Spurs two years ago. We know how talented he is, and everyone in the NBA looks human, its called a bad game. I really don't know what this has to do with Eddy Curry's inability to be an efficent leader scorer. Eddy Curry is one of the worst leading team scorers in the NBA, he shouldn't be a first option because he lacks consistancy of not turning the ball over. Our defense isn't bad as everyone thinks too. Its just the turnovers are KILLING us. We average over 17 turnovers a game, how can we even expect to win games? Thats why we've been in so many close games, we give teams as many chances as possible with the turnovers. That is not the key to winning.
In NBA standards thats a movable contract? Explain where. Name atleast 10 teams in the NBA that would accept Jerome James' 5 year $30 mil contract. Stop trying to make it sound easy.
Can you be anymore obvious? Ben Wallace gave the Pistons zero on offense. He was signed because of his defensive presence and his rebounding. Chicago is finally coming together which pisses me off, cause we gave them the team they have now basically. All the cap space is because of Isiah. Seeing them suceed and win and watching my team lose makes it more painful. I don't know about you, I'm a very passionate fan. Hindsight is always 20/20 has to be the most overused line in this forum.
We already know this. We're going to be over the cap until 2008-09. I've said it in my thread. The New York Daily News have said it countless of times. We all know this. What you're saying is nothing new. We're aware of the reality and how poorly Isiah has managed this team. This is why all the moves Isiah have done were terrible moves. We could of been rebuilding now, instead of waste two seasons of the Knicks. You act like two seasons mean nothing. It seems to me you enjoy watching losing. I'm not down with that b, I don't know what team your on here. It seems like whenever I make a post thats against Isiah, you come here flying to save his butt. Thats the only reason why I can question on what team your on. Let me keep it simple. Its idiotic to acquire Stephon Marbury, Jalen Rose, Penny Hardaway, Vin Baker, Jerome James, Maurice Taylor, Steve Francis, Malik Rose, and Tim Thomas over the last 3 years. You know it, I know it. Isiah was trying his best to get this team to the playoffs with those players. Sorry, if you look at the list of guys I just named and think a chance at the playoffs is possible, you're obviously not thinking right. Now I have to sit for two years to wait for Marbury's, Francis and others contracts to expire so we can finally be active in the free agent market and rebuild all over? Hell, how do you know Isiah won't trade those contracts for even longer contracts? Thats why Isiah needs to be gone. He has no direction for this team, and thats been the problem for years. We haven't had direction in a long time. I don't like the direction we're at now, if you're content with the direction, you're not wearing Knicks jersey.
To tell you the truth, I hated the Brown deal and the Jerome James deal. That summer got worse knowing Isiah traded his draft picks and gave Chicago capsace for Eddy Curry. I knew it was going to be a diaster because the roster at the time wasn't a Larry Brown team, and if you look at Larry Brown's coaching history, the first year of the teams he coaches have a poor year and improve from there. But you saw no improvement fhe Knicks. That roster and Brown will never have worked together, it was a BAD mix and I saw it from the beginning. Now our defense is worse with Isiah has coach. The players seem more happy to be playing under Isiah though. I guess because they're not forced defense as hard as they did with Brown.
Crawford is always playing out of control and is streaky as anyone in the NBA. Curry can score, no question. But averaging over 3 turnovers a game on 16-18 points per game isn't good production. Curry needs to lower down his turnovers and stop making the game easier for other team. Turning the ball over gives the other team more possesions. This what Curry does with his offensive fouling and careless turnovers. He ONLY exerts himself on the offensive scoring end. We are not going to win with him as the centerpiece to this franchise. Crawford does the same with his missed shots and bad shot selection. Especially the 3pt shots which lead to fast breaks for the other team. I want a winning team, having Curry and Crawford as your main options does not equal winning, and it never will. It didn't happending in Chicago, its not happending in New York.
"I'm not going to get into personal insults so let’s talk b-ball." Where have you seen any personal insults? Are you that paranoid man? Take it easy, this thread is all basketball, don't bring that crap here.
NYC is an impantient city. But that has nothing to do with Knick fans. Knick fans want guys who will play hard every night and a winning basketball team.
I don't understand and you never explained your last sentence. What does Marbury, Curry, Crawford as indivuals being better than Kurt Thomas, Antonio McDysess, and Charlie Ward have do with winning? Nothing. Knicks should of kept Antonio McDysess and Ward and let their contracts expire. Instead we open everything up to Phoneix. Marbury, Curry, Crawford being better than them is irrevelant to their value at the time of 2003. In 2003, Phoneix wanted their contracts because it would open up cap space for them. Do you understand that? Explain your last sentences better next time, you really went off track with that one.
Allen, I agree. Diop is younger and a super defender. Especially he has shown improvement physically with all the weight he lost. He's one of the best interior defenders in the NBA, and thats what we lack. Isiah has signed the wrong guys, to the wrong prices.
Is there people here who accually still want to keep Isiah as GM? I honestly feel the people who come here to defend either just want to make an agruement against disappointed Knick fans or they're coming to defend him because they're fans of Isiah Thomas himself.
I'll repeat again, Isiah has no plan. He has no concept of what kind of team he wants to build or how to put the pieces together. Knicks were at a situation before Isiah came as GM with no hope of winning. He greatly worsened the Knicks salary cap. He tries to rebuild the team, after he REALIZES the team is bad. A GM who just drafted the same players as Isiah and did none of his trades would be 2 years FURTHER ahead in bringing the Knicks back to RESPECTABILITY. Listen guys, I really understand Isiah can't change past mistakes and stupid trades, but he should be trying to minimize those mistakes by trading them for either shorter contracts or the same length contracts with additional draft picks. Instead he's People complained about Layden's history in New York, but imagine Isiah hasn't made all that trades. If he hadn't done anything, we would alot of cap space this summer, plus all our youth. Hell, we would be in the draft this season and have a shot at Oden. Please, lawyers of Isiah Thomas in this forum if you can explain why every move Isiah has done helped this team now and the future, I'l stop my disapproval of Isiah. Explain the Francis trade. Explain the Mabury trade. Explain the Jalen Rose trade. Explain the Crawford trade. Explain the Curry trade. Explain the Jerome James signing. Explain the Vin Baker signing. Explain why we didn't draft real PG's like Jarret Jack or Marcus Williams when we had the chance? Now we have career bench players like Nate Robinson and Renaldo Balkman. I really think these group of guys in here are the only people who think Isiah is a good GM. Isiah is the ass of the most people's jokes these days, NYC media, ESPN, the guys on TNT. This results for the lack of respect for the Knicks franchise which I disapprove of.
If Isiah had built a winning team I would be supporting him. He hasnt, so I wont.
You can excuse Amare, cause he was hurt, but Eddy Curry is inexcuseable even though this is his FIRST time being the focal point on offense. 1 week ago Isiah was by your definition, "A Good Coach". They lose 3 games, and he's an idiot again (Please see the Bozo banner currently being displayed). Good with the bad, youngblood. Yes, Nowitzki is still learning how to rebound. He May be rebounding at 9, but if you watch NBA League Pass, and watched a Dallas game, he rebounds passively. He doesn't fight for tough boards. It seems to be exceptable, that that isn't his game. However, when Curry makes a mistake on offence (most his turnovers are from travelling) it's unexceptable, even though he's only 24, and great centres didn't figure out their footwork till their 30's. That sounds like an unfair double standard. How would you try to stop a half court team? By jacking up shots, or by an effective low post scorer that takes up space. I choose the latter. The Phoenix Suns are the team everyone wants to be during the regular season. BUT, like clockwork the lose in the playoffs. WHY. They can't consistently run a half court offence. For that San Antonio, is eternally grateful. Turnovers are also on the passer. How, if they pass the ball when Eddy is in deep he could catch and score. We have guards that dribble way too much. Eddy has to wait, establish good position and move so he doesn't generate a 3 in the Key. Quicker ball delivery would help him be more effective, as he does not instigate the offense. When Isiah brought Marbury here you like tons of others where estatic. He was a 20 and 8 guy. So, now when that move didn't work out, Isiah's an idiot? Ridiculous. Does anyone here think Isiah brought Marbury here thinking "this will be a great way to lose!" No one normal would. It was idiotic to aquire those players? Those guys got into the playoffs, which seems to be your mandate. As well, turn the page on the following:
Penny Hardaway, Vin Baker and Tim Thomas. We don't pay those guys anymore. At at the end of this year we won't pay Houston, Rose, Anderson, Taylor, and Williams.
No one is content with losing. However, every night some does it! It's a bitch, but that's life in the Real world. Knicks fans are fickle as well, they called for Ewing, Spreewell and Houston's heads as well. With the other Hypethetical trading of Marbury and Francis for longer worse contracts, how do you know this will be the end game? If you can see into the future, I suggest getting the powerball numbers and winning. Just a thought.
There's a sucker born every minute. If a team needs a big man. At his salary he's moveable. This is the NBA. If Gheorghe Mureşan could be moved, there's hope!
min fgm-a 3pm-a ftm-a off def tot ast pf st to Bs Pts
P.S. Eddy Curry Sucks: 39:16 11-17 0-0 5-8 2 8 10 0 1 1 2 2 27
so does Crawford 15:00 9-21 0-4 7-7 2 3 5 6 4 2 2 0 25
Last edited by dr.carpy; Jan 03, 2007 at 23:29.